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Nikki Stern

Nikki Stern
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Princeton (for now), New Jersey, USA
Birthday
April 10
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What do you have in mind?
Company
I'd love some
Bio
writer, editor and first-time book author (Because I Say So: The Dangerous Appeal of Moral Authority comes out next spring); always up for a little discourse

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SEPTEMBER 22, 2009 5:38PM

Can't Men Control Themselves?

Rate: 22 Flag

Several recent stories have prompted some deep thought about a subject that bothers me: Are men in many societies so out of control that special protections, not to mention numerous restrictions, are required for women all over the world? Is it that difficult for men to get a handle on their wildest impulses and put a lid on it, especially when those impulses are unwelcome, disrespectful, dangerous, and even, at times, inhumane? Put another way: can't men learn to keep it in their pants?

In India, it's become so difficult for women to commute to work without getting groped, hassled, or hit on that the government has added women-only commuter trains in India's four largest cities. Two-thirds of Egyptian men admit to harrassing women.In Jerusalem, another kind of harrassment is taking place: ultra-Othodox modesty patrols have taken to beating women they deem immodest or unchaste.

burka 

 These aren't autocracies or theocracies, where civil laws dictate what women may do, what they may wear, where they may go, and whether they can work or study. These are democracies. 

In our own country, women have far more independence, of course. Yet, as male elected officials continue to publicly humiliate their wives while lying about    how they spend their constituents’ time and money, I still wonder bout respect, especially when the gentlemen caught are by and large  ready to blame either the woman at home or the one seen on the sly (for an interesting exception, see the "love" story starring Mark Sanders).

 

20edwards1a_190
 

I know a consensual affair between two adults is not the same as deliberate subjugation of an entire group based on gender; perhaps sexual harassment isn’t an automatic pathway to violence against women. Yet none of these stories is really about sex, but rather about power: who's got it, who's perceived as having it, and what has to be done about it. The men have the strength to treat the women badly but the women have the power to bring the men low -to attract, distract, or seduce them; to yank  them away from their families, their jobs, their studies, or their vows and reduce them to sniveling, quivering powerless beings. In the end, then, the men have no choice but to beat or shame or humiliate or cover up or lock away or, if necessary use their women. That's the theory, anyway.

temptress 

I like, respect, and sometimes love most of the men I know and have known. I don't like feeling ticked off at the entire gender; surely they aren't all like this. In fact, my male friends tell me they know the difference between attraction and action; they say they like strong women. They also admit they think with their balls as often as they think with their brains. I believe them. 

One thing I know: these stories are connected but not because they're about love or relationships or sex, at least not the way I'd like to think about it. 

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Men and power and self-control: what's the deal?
Power overrules self-control.
"can't men learn to keep it in their pants?"

Actually, it is really, really hard. I mean difficult.
a few days on a farm would answer some of your questions, 'origin of species' would help too.

males pass on their genes by getting control of a female for a few minutes at least. they have evolved a range of strategies with thuggery at one end, bribery at the other. civilization tries to keep them operating somewhere in the middle. considering the inherent sloppiness of hormones compared to electric switches, it's amazing that any female gets through a day without incident.
Chuck - I guess
Cap'n - yeah, yeah
Very good post.
thanks
rated
Al : my uncle had a farm. I read "Origin of the Species" too. I thought we were evolving. Silly me.
What Chuck said, and no. Not most. I can, most days. Just not yesterday. :-D
Wow, what a question . . .
Self control is a form of power. The man who has learned how to pick, choose and refuse is much more "powerful" than the guy who's ready to screw anything and ecerything that comes along....
On the other hand, a dose of viagra, cialis, or levitra is a terrible thing to waste...
men are pigs.

It's amazing that women don't just harvest our sperm and be done with us.
Ah, what a question!!! I have thought this too many times, and usually I walk away from it without a clear answer. I think the quick answer is NO, unfortunately. But, that is unfair, because too many men, in all cultures can control themselves. I don't want to paint men with a broad brush (no pun intended) as I don't want men to paint women with the same wide brush. Individuals of both genders do learn to control themselves. I think that speaks more of them than of the greater population. Unfortunately, Al has a point. We aren't that far into our evolution, and we are still driven by basic animal emotions of fear, sex, etc. Society as a whole may take a long time to reconcile this, but it doesn't mean we as individuals shouldn't do our part. And this is about the point where I lose the plot everytime I think about this...

Very thought provoking. Thank you for this.
...or I could just go with what Brian B said. ;)
I am soooo frustrated by this topic. I have spent my entire post-pubescent life hyper-aware of my own glandular compulsions and feeling almost continuous guilt/shame over same. Not the kind of guilt/shame that comes from "moral" indoctrination, the kind that comes from feeling as though you are ignoring or abusing other peoples' humanity. Only many years past the age of 30 or so have I been able to say that the positives of male sexuality have finally outnumbered the intense pain and frustrations of the testosterone-addled early years.

So I look at the vast majority of men who obviously have been unencumbered with a perspective like mine, and I take in the culture they have wrought. I become discouraged and disillusioned, and then I feel disgust with this majority of the male population.

Strangely, though, I see an attention-grabbing headline such as this post's and I feel nothing if not demeaned and defensive. I know you and others like you make an exception for "decent men," a group to which I arrogantly arrogate myself, but still...some part of my lizard brain wants to circle the wagons with the other guys. That's why I'm frustrated. There doesn't seem to be any place for me to fit into comfortably when this line of thought jumps out.
Most of this shyte is about power, isn't it?
Their are many here among you, that despise that hunger...
This country is divided by those with power, which in America so happens to be money, the ultimate power...
I know we have gender issues but,division leads to derision...
And I am equally sick all this stupidity...
The guys I know admire, and love, strong women...
Hey, it's your world, we're just livin' in it...
Rated
What is the deal? Am I that puritanical? Yet, I love them! They are funny and often have a different take on things than women have. They give great foot rubs... and can more often than not, fix a leaky faucet.... oh, and mow a lawn better than me any day of the week.
I'm kinda out of control, as far as chicks are concerned. I'm trying to balance out our collectively lost dignity.
Guys in the middleast are old fashioned. Wow, that's news.
morality, esp about sex, is gender-based. surprise!! evolutionary psychology explains why.
Owl : yeah, it is
Bully: hah!
Dr. FeelGood : you covered all the bases
Brian and JK - you made me smile
Patrick: yes it's about power
MAWB: ditto
Beth: craziness runs across gender lines
Snorevil: "old-fashioned"?
vzn: "morality"?
Dan: I feel your frustration and trust me, I feel frustrated as well. When I read these articles, I give into MY base impulse, which is to think, "Why the f**k can't men reign it in?" I'm honestly not one for generalizations (although the attention-grabbing headline might suggest otherwise) and I don't - I categorically do NOT - believe all men are pigs. I realize some evolutionary gender distinctions are at work in the way men react to women (or treat women or are confused by women or feel threatened by women) just as I recognize that culture and upbringing allow for all sorts of variations and nothing is predetermined. Nevertheless, this is something that bothers me, whether it takes a dangerous form in parts of Africa or a frustrating form as I (to be perfectly honest) venture out in the world of male-female relations after a long hiatus following the death of my husband.

Truly, I wrote this post because I was feeling angry about a topic that's been bothering me for awhile but I wasn't trying to identify myself with those "other" females who denigrate men and then make exceptions (although I suppose the headline would suggest otherwise :-0

As far as circling the wagons, I feel that way from time to time but then wonder if I'm in the group I'm supposed to be in.
Power seems to remain the overwhelming # 1 aphrodisiac. One trip to our country's capitol opened my eyes.

Just to make one thing clear...these men do this to their male lovers too.
Nature has, on occasion, taken matters into her own hands. I would direct you to the praying mantis as one example.

It is partly to do with primal encoding in our genetic makeup, but I think much of it has to do with upbringing as well. If you're taught it's ok to abuse women, then you'll always believe it's ok. The earlier the lesson is implanted, the longer it has to take root and the harder it is to destroy.

Just my two cents. I'm not a psychiatrist but I did stay at a Holiday Inn.......
Bill - if you stayed at a Holiday Inn, you're an expert as far as I'm concerned.

Nature takes its own course but there is never malice or intent involved when a praying mantis uses and then kills her mate (as fascinating and horrific as it is to watch). It just is. Deliberate abuse is blamed on genetics but is indeed about power and is indeed circumvented or mitigated by upbringing.
I think thecan control themselves; there are times they choose not to. Just like women.

I liken it to my son's knowing not to swear in front of certain people. They can control it. And do.

I think men control their sexual urges when the cost is high enough. For a politician who never, ever loses his wife or family it seems, the price just isn't high enough for him to not do it. I mean hell, Spitzer coming back to politics? His uncontrolled urges barely netted him a vacation and a slap on the wrist.

I think we underestimate, or are blind to, the role of society in defining acceptable and not acceptable. If an Indian man on a bus were to goose a woman here in say, Chicago or Toronto, he'd get his ass kicked.

We're all sexual beings, and I think it's better to acknowledge that than pretend we're not. I mean, men aren't the only ones thinking those things;)
god no, libidos reign and while I'm older, I'm not dead. But somewhere along the line, it crosses from being sexual to being about control. even in this country, the line between flirtation and invasion seems at times to be a little thin. Society or culture or Mama or whomever isn't teaching not just to know the difference but to respect the difference. And no, I'm not going to wear a burkha just so someone else can be protected from crossing that line.
Yes, males, esp. younger ones, have great difficulty controlling their hormone-driven impulses. No, it is not an insurmountable problem. Although 2-year-olds love to run around naked, we socialize them into wearing clothes in public. A culture with the will to do so can socialize its young men to be aware of, and not merely react to, these impulses. Instead, many cultures choose to blame women. It is easier to force women to wear body-disguising clothing, to exclude women from places where men recreate and worship & to generally deprive and exclude women than it is to train their young males. Or so they think.
They can; many do a very good job of it. But we live in a society that tells them that boys will be boys and excuses their violent or otherwise disgusting behavior towards women. We deny women rights or hide them and then blame them when the coddled menz take complete advantage of our societal setup.
Good old testosterone at work. I guess some of them can't.
Yours is a post that reminds of the global sexism that is inherent in every culture. Yes, "power corrupts" but it's obviously working for a lot of men. That is the part that sucks.
Having worked young and single in politics I can tell you that power provides a sense of invincibility, shorting the circuits between many male brains and balls. And is an aphrodisiac to many deluded women.
It's nothing a little Zoloft won't cure.
I question your premise that it is at heart about power. I think at heart its about feeling good. or trying to.
I'm not sure what it says about humanity when mass transit has to be tailored to avoid harrassment...but I am sure of this........it is not going away any time soon.
: (
wow, this is so thoughtful and beautifully written. (but these small fonts are killing me, people.) i was going to say taht it's all about power, but, shit, in Israel women fight in the army too. that's fundamentalist thinking there, i believe. i have several wonderful male friends on here and in my life, men who would never ever ever hurt a woman. i think it has a lot to do with the economy now. violence always goes up in tough economic times and these are bad times for so many. it's about power and control. i was just thinking the other day, when people were writing and thinking abotu racism, that sexism is still rampant all over the world, so i was pickign up on this too. i felt heartsick and still do that so many women are suffering all around the world. and i'ts not jsut men. women in africa circumsize their daughters. well, they do it because of the men. god, i don't know but thanks for getting me thinking. love lvoe lvoe and g ratitude
Nurse and AshK: society does what's easier, yes
Corinna and Marty: it works far too well
Sally: I lived in DC; I saw it
Rick: hmm - who'd be taking the Zoloft?
vzn: ?
JD: sadly true
Dan: whew
Teddy: thanks
There are countless good men. They just don't make the headlines.
They don't, Steve. Nor do they alway get recognized or promoted.
And men rule the world? Men control the banks, the governments, the militaries, the professions, the courts, the police departments, the universities and colleges, the school boards, all organized religions, on and on......and we see the state of the world: constant war, daily rape of, murder of, and violence toward women worldwide, slavery at an all-time high, degradation of the planet, and so on...Apparently, this is what thinking with dicks gets us: a nasty, ugly world that benefits only the rich and where women are not safe.

Women of the world: we must unite, help, and support each other....because men do nothing! Even the ones who aren't violent, where are their voices speaking out against male barbarism? That's right! Nowhere!!
I would make only one minor point here. You seem to make the common mistake of overvaluing 'democracy' which is a resonably peaceful method of changing governments from time to time and nothing more. The fact that some country has 'democracy' indicates nothing about its humaneness. Nothing.