At issue: How much health care reform is enough?
I sat down at 10 AM with a cup of coffee, snow falling outside and online video streaming inside, to watch as much of the health care debate as possible. I am surprised to say I'm still here, three hours later. The summit makes for compelling theater and I don't even have to dress up and travel. Kudos for making this public. Here now are thoughts on the first half of the show (final summary to be added later today).
Republican criticism: Yes, just as you might have expected, the GOP brought their talking points to the summit, despite President Obama’s appeal to look for consensus: Extend Medicare (never mind if it’s unrelated to need.) Engage in tort reform. Start over with another, more modest bill. Do not tinker with “the best health care system in the world.” Take a step-by-step approach. The starting over part was often repeated.
Obama as a regular guy but with a spine: The President was not about to be moved off his agenda, as he made clear from the get-go -- and his agenda was to find points of agreement. He was relentless in slapping down what he referred to as “talking points” and chided Representative Eric Cantor for using the massive-looking Senate bill as a “prop” to demonstrate how confusing the health care bill was. While he offered an olive branch to Republicans in his opening speech, referring to GOP recommendations he either would consider or had already incorporated into legislation, he made clear he would not consider starting from scratch, a position strongly urged at every turn by the Republicans. Nor did he let John McCain's speech about lobbyists and backroom deals pass without comment. "John," the president reminded the senior senator from Arizona, "we're not campaigning anymore."
We, the people: Although I wasn't polled, I felt intimately connected to the proceedings simply because "the American people" were invoked so many times I lost count. Apparently we want reform but not the bill currently under consideration; we want Social Security and Medicare untouched but we don't want to fund it; we want the government to provide protection without mandates.
The political reality: Using the Senate bill as the starting point is anathema to the Republicans, not only because of ideological differences (see below), but also because the legislation was instituted by a Democratic White House and passed by the Democratic-majority Congress. If Democrats are able to claim success for achieving health care reform, they will carry a decisive advantage into the 2010 mid-term elections.
A bridge too far: The White House believes that a full-fledged overhaul of the health care system is crucial to economic recovery; restructuring health care means restructuring a portion of the economy, but this view holds that nothing less will do. Republicans deplore such drastic measures, especially government mandates. They prefer a step-by-step plan that makes incremental changes and relies to a certain extent on businesses to take some responsibility for reform.
Time for lunch and attention must be paid to the dog at my feet. Back soon.
* * * *
Back again for substantive discussions on deficit reduction. The American people remain the subject of intense speculation. People were coming and going. At one point, the feed was accompanied by a Sousa march (I kid you not!) Other highlights:
Do the math: In the afternoon, the talk shifted to the impact of the legislation on the deficit and I learned something interesting: Five percent of the Medicare recipients use fifty percent of Medicare money.These people are the chronically ill. Imagine each of their separate ailments is treated by a different doctor using separate applications to Medicare for reimbursement. Get the picture? Spreading panic about reforming a system that is set to go broke in a decade anyway (see above) by implying that seniors will lose their entitlements.
Everybody in the pool: This is a tricky concept to summarize but here goes: if everyone buys health care (young and old, healthy and sick, preexisting conditions or not), then the pool is larger. If the pool is larger, individual costs are lower. Everyone pays in and it's available for anyone who needs it at an affordable cost. You could live to ninety without ever needing a doctor. God bless. But you will, one way or another, pay for those people who don't get health insurance but visit the emergency room when they need help. As you have gathered, this is a bone of contention between Democrats and Republicans.
Do the Math, part two: Instituting tort reform will save money but it represents only one-fifth of 1% of the potential savings. Making it the overriding issue, as some Republicans have done, is, according to Democrat Dick Durbin, disingenuous. Because while there are frivolous lawsuits, there is also medical malpractice. The focus should be on reducing medical errors.
What is believed and what is known? One of the Republicans – a doctor with impressive credentials – pointed out that most people he talks with absolutely believe that care will get worse, that coverage will cost more, and that coverage will be less accessible. Democrat Henry Waxman countered: “If I heard [and believed] the rhetoric over and over again, I wouldn’t want the health plan either.” Yes, but how do you disprove a negative?
The uninsured: To cover or not to cover: that really does seem to be the question. Are we expanding entitlement? Are the uninsured even entitled to health care? Ah, there’s the rub.
Favorite lines of the day:
“An incremental approach is like a swimmer drowning fifty feet out where we throw him a ten-foot rope.” (Sen. Tom Harkin, D)
“Each of us is only one accident or one diagnosis away from being one of the unfortunate who can’t find health insurance.” (Sen. Dick Durbin, D)
“People don’t want government making those decisions; they want people making those decisions.” (Rep Paul Ryan, R)
Six hours later, where are we? The Republicans contine to believe that the free market will do what is necessary with but a few regulatory alterations (let people do comparative shopping across state lines; let people buy insurance that will only cover catastrophic illnesses). What the Republicans DON'T want is radical change to the health care delivery system. Follow our six proposals, the Republicans say, and we'll have a deal. The Democrats say: incremental change doesn't work; it costs more and does less. To change the system, change what drives the system.
Et voila la difference. It is absolutely a philosophical divide and from where I stand, it looks unbreachable. And I'm not sure we, the American people are going to help. After all, it was all of us who elected our representatives, and then asked them to choose which of the mixed signals we've been sending being representative of our true feelings.
Sometimes I wonder whether the problem is inside the Beltway or outside.
(I watched the entire summit at MSNBC)


Salon.com
Comments
And, as humans, just as outside the beltway, people inside the beltway aren't interested in fixing things, they are interested in doing the least they can do that will make them look like they're doing the most. We're a nation of people who ALWAYS puts a gauze pad on a machete wound, no matter what the issue.
And, you're right, this "health care" reform has NOTHING, nada, zilch, zero to do with health care. It's ALL about the economy. This is economic recovery through insurance reform, or as I like to call it "get rich and die anyway"
If this president and congress had been at all serious about real health care, they would have dealt with the issues in BigPharma and the FDA first, and made sure we're getting the best for our money, THEN tried to lower costs...
But apparently most people are fine with receiving dangerous sometimes deadly poisons as "health care" so long as they receive those dangerous, deadly poisons cheaply
Meanwhile the FDA is considering removing ANOTHER drug, Avandia, from the market due to its link to heart attack...Anyone rememer Vioxx? Same thing
Anxiously awaiting the second act!
Are the Repubs wearing their Speedos too tight? Are the Democrats flashing again? Geesh.
But I agree, the concessions to the FDA and especially Big Pharma may make this a moot issue. But if the right foundation's laid, maybe the future won't be so disolate.
I glad you said this. Every time anyone mentions that phrase, it pisses me off so bad; the context is always false.
Great analysis, Niki; a cup of coffee and a falling snow can do wonder. Great post, rated.
Oh, we have some great medical facilities...but they might as well be on Mars if you can't afford to pay for the services they deliver.
I might as well be living in Calcutta....medical care is actually affordable there.
It's not just the economy, stupid: it's the mean-spiritedness, stupid!
I want health care reform because doing MY math, I paid out over 40% of my income last year for health care. And we weren't even catastrophically ill. That's not right, damn it. I know I'm not alone. Many are one job loss or one bad illness away from bankruptcy. That is not right at all.
Unfortunately, as you point out, most among us aren't willing to think long term. People often see in the short term only or only what immediately benefits them in that short term. Thus, I hear "I like my health insurance. Why should I pay for someone else's?" never realizing that they ALREADY DO THIS. Or never acknowledging it cannot be a good thing to let someone else die just so long as they are a-okay. Like it could never happen to them.
It's sad, but the real issue is that, if we really truly had good news coverage, fair and as impartial as possible, my guess is that a lot more people would be fighting for universal health care. But, as no one truly understands what such a thing might be, they hear the words 'socialism' or 'taxes' from Fox or CNN and freak out.
Depressing.
Penelope Ann
But it is more like exactly what are Democrats willing to give up? As far as I can see, nothing. No one wants to give up anything. Just lard it up.
But this year is for giving and next year is for cutting back. Thats the only way it can get done.
So, everyone gets more. No one gets less. Until next year.
It's time that people quit throwing around the idea that we are 37th in the world regarding health.
http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_systems.html
This is some sort of attempt to rank health not by absolute criteria but by some complex formula that compares outcomes with resources, which is what you are trying to do again.
The US is 1st out of a lot of countries in responsiveness.
By the way, the WHO is no longer doing this (this is an old study) because of the difficulty.
The idea that Cubans have better health than the US is absurd.
The Republicans have lied enough over the last year that apparently they've convinced enough people to poll against health care reform. They just want to use health care to beat up the Democrats in election season so they have no incentive to let Obama look good.
He let Tom Harkin ramble on with his talking points. He also let most of the Democrats ramble about some of their constituents who were having so called insurance problems.
I especially liked the one about the woman who had to use her dead sister's dentures because she didn't have insurance.
Pathetic.
The Republican fears -- and they are fears -- deserve consideration; however, the rhetoric they have either passively or actively supported is unconscionable as far as I'm concerned.
@Deborah: you're welcome and I'm not diminishing the importance of polls; I'm only wondering about what the American public understands of the bill in its totality. I'm not talking about the unforgiveable igvebacks, like the Nevada add-ons (gone) and the Florida seniro exception (still there). But the basic goals of the program and the philosophy behind the program are what need to be debated. My friend in Arizona who has benefited from excellent health care her doctor husband can afford, care she's needed, emphatically does NOT believe health care is something every American deserves. That is a big difference in outlook between us and that's what we all have to consider and weigh against other considerations of course.
Having access to the system isn't even a guarantee, when the system itself is so eggregiously flawed. Look up Vioxx and Avandia for starters, read the side effects and contraindications of all your prescription medications, heck, read the side effects of common "safe" aspirin for heaven's sake. And we won't even talk about things like chemo and radiation and their side effects.
Sometimes it makes me wonder if not having access to that kind of medication is just as good as having access to that treatment when the treatment itself is likely to cause as many complications as the disease itself
"The United States ranks 37th in the world in terms of health care according to various studies. Why are these assholes repeating the lie that we have the best health care in the world?"
The lie is in your remark. We you are not telling the lie but it's here.
If you read the numbers we are at the top of everything until you get to the socialized medicine part. We don't have it. The people who did the ranking though it was so important that socialized medicine is pulled out ranking down.
We are not ranked like that because our hospitals, medical schools, research etc is that bad. They just want us to have socialized medicine.
In his exchange with Lamar Alexander, Obama was wrong on the facts, the same facts that the senile Harry Reid said Alexander was not entitled to.
Funny how argument summaries by Republicans are "talking points," whereas Democrats doing the same thing are Delphic.
BTW, the election results in Virginia, New Jersey, and Massachusetts were not polls. Obama seems determined to ignore them. He does so at his peril and the peril of his party. Can't wait.
Gordon, I want to address some points you made: First of all, let me know how Obama and Alexander differed and who was wrong. I'll also compare Alexander's facts and numbers with those presented by Kathleen Sebelius, the health care director, also an ex-governor. I think people use facts selectively in order to come to very different conclusions but it bears examination.
As far as Obama's demeanor, he was acting as a facilitator with a predetermined agenda to get through and he was as likely to cut off Henry Waxman as he was Eric Cantor.
No, I don't believe the Democrats only speak in oracles and the Republicans in talking points (Harry Reid, for example, seems polarizing when he opens his mouth). But Obama has a philosophy about how health care needs to be tackled, which is holistically and comprehensively. Are all the elements of the legislation perfect? No. Am I nervous about the numbers? You bet. But the "let's just do these couple little things and the market will take care of the rest" - the GOP approach to health care - is the direct descendant of "trickle down economics." In thirty years, I have never seen anything of consequence trickle down far enough to help those in need. It's an approach that favors social Darwinism over compassion. And regardless of whether you think individual Republicans are fine people or certain Democrats are hypocrites, that is the difference between the two health care approaches in my view: one is about limiting and the other is about extending; one is about survival of the fittest and the other is about inclusion. And if you've ever been healthy one day and sick the next, you would know how very much beyond politics this health care discussion needs to be. And yes: "government takeover,' "socialized medicine" and "elitist president" are talking points, repeated over and over for the sole purpose of making people afraid. Hope may be a talking point too but it's a lot more palatable to me than hysteria.
Cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes. The mantra that conquers all obstacles and cures all diseases. Nothing more? Oh yes--cut government spending Freak enterprise will show the way. Didn't Enron deliver electricity in the most efficient way & the lowest prices?
The party elephant is long gone, replaced by the braying jackal.
Nikki wrote that 94% of Americans have access to public health care. If that were true, this debate wouldn't be going on. Since we are constantly being told that some 30 million Americans don't have health insurance....where does this discrepancy come from?
Perhaps you're thinking that the free care delivered in emergency rooms qualifies as public health care coverage? There is no such thing as free care. It's a myth.
The obligation of hospitals that receive federal funds is to provide free emergency care....but only emergency care. Once the patient is stabilized, you are out the door....without the necessary follow-up.
The care isn't really free either. You will receive bills in the mail, along with dunning phone calls, forever afterward. I do, and I have a very expensive health insurance package because my very expensive health insurance package only cover 75% of the costs.
I just went through my annual oncology examination. The cost for this examination was $15,000. I will get a bill for around $2500, which I will ignore, as I have ignored the previous ones.
That's how you get free care. You steal it.
Nick's comments gave me pause because I respect his comments, but he's just wrong.
According to the WHO study he cited, the US ranks first in responsiveness. Now, I don't even know what that means. Do you? One might assume it has something to do with how quickly we respond to medical emergencies.
However, the same study ranks the US 24th in Health Level, whatever that means, 32nd in the distribution of health care, 37th in the "distribution of responsiveness" whatever the hell that means, 55th in fairness of financial contributions, 15th in overall goal attainment, 72nd on overall level of health, not to mention the 37th ranking for overall health system performance.
Oh, yes. We also rank #1 in per capita expenditures on health care services.
There's something very wrong with a system that ranks #1 on costs, and #72 in outcome measured by the overall level of health.
Let's put all of these statistics aside, because they are inconclusive and may be irrelevant to the discussion.
Here's a very simple question: if you see someone who is starving to death right in front of you, and you have two Big Macs in your hand, would you give one of them to the starving man?
If you're answer is no, this discussion is over. You're a monster.
If you're answer is yes, then your answer to the next question must also be yes, or you're a hypocrite.
Do you believe that every sick person should receive the care that person needs to get well, or die comfortably?
Socialized medicine is one of the curse words that conservatives throw around to scare people. All medicine is socialized to one degree or another.
When you or your insurance company pays a hospital bill, a significant but usually undisclosed portion of that bill goes to cover the costs of free care provided by that hospital. Whether you like it or not, that's socialized medicine going on right under your nose.
Unlike many people, I see the Democratic plan as an attempt to force many of the freeloaders - like, perhaps, me - into the pool so that the cost of free care can be absorbed by their contributions to the pool's funding.
The deeper I get into this issue, the more confusing it becomes until finally, I have to stop and ask one simple question:
When I run out of money, when the COBRA on my health insurance runs out, what's going to happen to me?
That's what this debate is about because, sooner or later, that precisely the situation in which many of us will end up, often through no fault of our own.
I want a system that will enable me to keep living as long as I can (until I don't want to any more) and won't take my medical care away because I have to choose between eating, sleeping under a roof, and paying for medical services I can't afford.