When I fir
st moved to New York, the locals, it seemed, were more than ready to offer advice on anything, whether you asked or not: where to shop, where to eat, which subway to take, who to vote for, who to root for, or the best way to get where you wanted to go, even if they had not a clue. It was kind of cute, if at times a little overwhelming and maybe even a little iconic: the opinionated New York local.
These days, we're all New Yorkers.
What might be a passing impulse to have and render an opinion has been “legitimized” and encouraged by the availability of multiple outlets from which we can make ourselves heard. No longer must we stand on a corner shouting about the End of Times or write endless letters to the editor in hopes of getting the word out there. The level playing field provided by the blogosphere means that we can all weigh in almost anywhere on almost any subject, day or night. The opportunity to reach hundreds, even thousand, any time, day or night, is intoxicating, like crack or Red Bull for the opinionated and even the marginally opinionated. Who can resist commenting?
Attention, everyone: do resist, please…at least some of the time. 
I’m not against opinions and I’m certainly not against comments, especially those that are amusing or instructive, supportive or even contrary and most importantly, considered. Sometimes we all have something to add to the conversation.
But let’s face it, all opinions are not created equal. And not all opinions need to be expressed.
Virginia Heffernan, New York Times television critic and columnist on all things media, noted in an article last year that commenters often responded to stories with comments that “are hardly models of astuteness.” Scanning the online comments that follow pieces by respected journalist Anne Applebaum of the Washington Post, Heffernan observed the commenters feel free to criticize, make assumptions, or cast aspersions about the author but didn’t “… provide a sustained or inventive analysis.” Instead they posted illogical arguments or poorly researched rebuttals apparently so that they could go on record as having joined the discussion.
Most of us might have qualms about making public statements without having our facts straight but these things appeared not to matter to the commenters, Heffernan concluded. And these noise-makers, she wrote, swamp the occasional “rare, bright voices” who might contribute to a meaningful dialogue.
The tone of so many online comments, inspired perhaps by talk radio and the idea of “freedom to be one’s own person” often veers between petulant and outraged. Commenters, it seems, come looking for a fight and stand ready to argue, even if it’s on, say, Salon’s food page (“You don’t hard boil an egg for fourteen minutes, you dimwit!”). They are simultaneously ready to hand out insults and take offense. They take pride in speaking “the truth” in voices that are often shrill, mean-spirited, or vitriolic. Too many are there to provoke, to hector, to lecture, or to rant. Of course, sometimes even the benign commenters (“I really like what you said.”) don’t seem to know when to let well enough alone, rambling on and derailing any chance of a meaningful discussion.
I’ve had comments on my opinion pieces that were tough but fair, that pointed to holes in my reasoning and flaws in my construct or that disagreed with the substance of my position. I appreciate seeing an issue through “new” eyes; alternate points of view and reasonable opposition are welcome. Of course, I don’t like to be lectured (who does?) and I’m not a fan of public humiliation, whether my own and someone else’s. If there were guidelines for commenters (oh, what a glorious thought!), they might begin with admonitions to stow the snark and bury the urge to bloviate.
Or maybe we’d paraphrase little Thumper’s mother (with apologies and full attribution to Disney) and render this advice: If you don’t have anything to say, don’t say anything at all.
image: Seattle Weekly blog


Salon.com
Comments
Nowadays, the most comments I receive are snipes from people who don't know me, kind of like drive bys of commentary.
It's clear that people are getting unnecessarily fired up by the bloviators on the air waves and also on-line and resulting in the famous "echo chamber" we have heard about for some 15 years or more. With so many places on-line for the echo chamber to reverberate even more it has reached a level not seen prior to the late '90s or thereabouts.
It is becoming more and more important for those who can carry on a reasoned discussion, debate, argument, to find and associate with, others of the same ability.
The herd is blathering away just for the sake of blathering away. I suppose that if I were to think about it, I'd have to say that they are throwing a bunch of shit on the wall just to see if any sticks; tossing out opinions in the hope that "someone of note" will express the same opinion. This will make them feel intelligent and "with it".
It is ironic that this great means of communication is actually going to be the cause of many of us becoming part of deliberately separated enclaves of like-minded individuals.
These people that post comments over and over on some places give me a true picture of what they are sad to say.
I will give 20% to those who work online like myself, where it is nothing but a hop, skip, and a jump.
But truly Nikki, I see the others. Sitting around in their jogging pants trying to create attention for the sad lives they have.
They want to be noticed and loved.
Maybe that is not the place to do it. Maybe they need to notice themselves first.
Rated with hugs.
Just kidding--how does one leave a non-comment comment? So very zen.
Most often for me it is not the idea or words that is such a turn off, but the delivery.
Thanks for this, Nikki. I agree completely! Rated. D
But I do find brainless comments on serious matters to be amusing in their unwitting self-revelation. (Weren't you amused by that?)
OS commenters are a rare breed as nearly all are very thoughtful and reasonable in their comments. But most sites (at least those that don't review and delete comments) are drowning in inanity and nastiness in their comments sections. My experience of it (as both a reader and as a writer when my pieces have appeared on Salon) is precisely as you quoted here:
"...commenters feel free to criticize, make assumptions, or cast aspersions about the author but didn’t “… provide a sustained or inventive analysis.” Instead they posted illogical arguments or poorly researched rebuttals apparently so that they could go on record as having joined the discussion."
I've occasionally posted comments at other sites, and I often felt like I was stepping into the middle of a production of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I quickly realized that OS, whatever its flaws, is pretty gentle compared to the rest of the blogosphere.
You dumb shit!!
Why do you capitalize "post"?lol
BTW, as I'm a grammar/spelling addict, I understand.
We may have something appropriate to say on a subject yet, there are those, merely to sound artifically intelligent, will dis us for our inadvertent minor errors.
OK, who will catch my spelling error?
And clueless. I mean, biewuxuanzhe biewu--don't get me started on that guy. Ed Hardy has nothing to do with anything I write about.
Lezlie
I love OS for the comments and will usually read the thread before commenting myself. It is a conversation.
And then too, some are very thinskinned when it comes to disagreement, particularly over religious matters where some folks appear to demand blind respect over discussion. I try not to go there.
~runs off in tears~
Point / Counterpoint or "Jane You Ignorant Slut"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7S_XWuKpHc
Of course, you'd have take a bill?
I mean`
tease.
You pick up the wine and salmon tab?
I can bring beets, greens, and butternut.
Butternut winter squash is delicious soup.
I know Sam Kass cooks that butternut soup.
Kass cooks for the Obama's private kitchen.
If he quits - I want that Executive Chef's gig.
Sam may one day drop eyebrow hair in soup.
Fired!
I get job?
I wash pan?
I wash pots?
I till pot plant?
tease.
I go on top of hut?
I bring Shaman weed?
Tobacco weed. Honest.
`
Focus!
`
I'd buy your book.
I really hurt on 9-11.
Ya never really know.
We store deep anguish.
I was a crybaby on 9-11.
Nine years have passed.
It seems like my own war.
The Images. Identification.
It's hard to write. Vicarious.
A 9-11 -my Farmer son married.
Every 9-11 has a different impact.
You know. You never Forget. Never.
Love. And, You Never want to Forget.
Love.
`
You wrote:`
"feel free to comment;-)"
If we ever talk in DC we bum?
We can go bum at Farm Booth.
I just steal gold butternut for you.
I will grab some salad greens too.
Blueberry Hill won't Care. O my.
on & on
O loon
seagull
O, Nikki
I'll readily admit that about myself—I write better than I speak. Therefore, my virtual voice is louder and more fluent. Plus, we need that safety valve so that things don't stay bottled up and fester; the Internet is a great tool for that. Unfortunately, there are many who abuse it.
r
OS is quasi moderated, since the poster can remove comments.
You need one or the other or both.
That is just the way it is.
You know that absolutely beautiful piece of writing today by Bellwether Vance? It just got published on Salon, and this is the first letter:
"What the F
This story sucked and is totally unecessary and devoid of any insight."
What the hell is wrong with people?
Then I'll just call the President of the Internet and (kidding!!!)
I agree, starting with yours!
Do you realize how arrogant it is for you to put up an opinion on how other peoples' opinions (namely, those you don't like) are worth less?
Oh, where would the world be without the kind, self-actualized, middle-aged women in university towns to tell us what's what.
"Instead they posted illogical arguments or poorly researched rebuttals apparently so that they could go on record as having joined the discussion ... And these noise-makers, she wrote, swamp the occasional “rare, bright voices” who might contribute to a meaningful dialogue.:
Duh, that's why they call it a democracy. All men are created equal, we proclaim. Mebbe so, but we don't stay that way for long.
Art James, you are the best example of a comment
Jeanette: I saw the comment on Bellwether's story and thought "who IS this person?"
Bill B. I wasn't suggesting a solution in terms of regulating; more like self-regulating
Jon H., thank you for exactly proving my point.
What you might not realize is that the outlets which solicit comments are happy to get them ALL, because response rates are a huge boon to their advertising rates. Meanwhile, some of us who partake in this admittedly rather masterbatory on-line discourse, quite obviously enjoy reading the more contrary and out there comments rather more than those of the "well done" and "you write so beautifully" variety. But good luck refining the world in your heady idea of what is should be.
You're right, Open Salon is very much like the kiddie pool.
I prefer to err on the side of too many comments than too few. Much more interesting that way, don't you think?
;)
I don't like incivility, but then restrictions aren't an answer either. I guess we have to take the 'net in reverse - rather than expect responders to conform civilly, exercise our prerogative to ignore those who don't :).
Rated for opinions - better than not having any I guess :D.
I can see that my piece might be provocative--hooray. It's also been subject to misinterpretation because no, I'm not telling people who disagree with me to shut up. It's a discussion; there are two or more sides. Let's hear 'em.
But what's with making it personal? Wildly off-topic? Insulting? Name-calling--is that about getting attention? Screaming (all caps)--is that "NOTICE ME!" or what? And the snark?
If I express an opinion and someone responds, by saying "Nope, I don't agree and here's why"-- I'll read that opinion carefully. If someone responds by saying "you f-ing, elitist dupe. You stupid sh*t, you don't know anything," I'll move on.
But I can't help thinking: If they want to take a dump, they might try using a toilet.
Did you see the letters for Bellweathers Big Salon crossover, about seeing her mother? Astonishing batshit comments, about half of them. I wonder why they bother to read Salon, given the uniquely insane reaction some of them have to Bell's beautiful meditation on aging.
I suddenly realized, reading this, (and taking into account your recent CBS piece, etc): you should have a talk show. Totally serious.
Speaking of insanity, Jon Stewart/the Daily Show is sponsoring a "Stop the Insanity" rally in DC. I plan to go and have several slogans in mind that hopefully will respect the spirit of the day.
Greg, as to your other suggestion, it'd have to be talk radio---I can't stand lip liner.
I've written hundreds if not thousands of essays over the years, always for papers and magazines, and mostly before interactivity became possible. The opportunity to write and receive responses continues to astonish and delight me.
When I read your kiddie pool analogy, I nodded my head. Little waves. Warm water. Yes. That feels familiar, accurate.
But in thinking on it a bit more, I think the analogy is backwards. OS is, in fact, the deep end of the pool. We have audacious writers, risk-takers, romantics, poets. We have passionate people who aren't blinded by their emotions but struggle to express them in coherent and even memorable ways. We can laugh at each other and even ourselves. We're concerned enough about civility to write and read and comment on posts such as this. Take a look -- out of how many dozens of comments above, it looks to me like only one went into attack mode.
That's an amazing accomplishment.
Though I've not traveled far on the internet, but I can say I've not seen anything like what happens here at OS any where else.
From what I've seen and heard and from the testimony of others, everywhere else is the kiddie pool, the place where everyone splashes and screams for mommy and cries when they don't get their way and picks fights.
I'll stop there. There's more to say, more to build on, actually, from what you and Lainey & Nelle & Steve & Cranky said about particular issues.
As so often happens around here, I expect I'll be writing my own post (if I haven't already) about the things worth remembering, about what we do here and how we do it here. Thanks for the opportunity Nikki.
A solid piece of criticism will stick me, in a good way. But frankly, that's a rarity. For thin-skinned folks, it's particularly tough. They retreat and stop writing. That's the real shame.
It kind of frightens me, truthfully, what people will do with a little anonymity. There's a mean-spiritedness that's just...shocking, truthfully, at times. The shadow side is often shown through comments.