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MARCH 22, 2010 12:39PM

Conversation with Pastor Garner on his Glenn Beck pushback

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Pastor Ron Garner in his Long Island church © Dan Wilby Photography 2010


It was sunny and 70 degrees when I pulled into the municipal parking lot out back of Wantagh Memorial Congregational Church (WMCC) in Wantagh, Long Island.  Spring had arrived in New York; the lawn of the church was already green.  Felled tree limbs from a recent storm waited in piles throughout the lawn for collection.   Wantagh is a fine sized New York City suburb, about ten minutes north of Jones Beach and by and large, conservative and insulated in it’s politics.

But Wantagh and Wantagh Memorial made national news last week when Pastor Ron Garner of the WMCC decided to take on conservative  FOX News personality, Glenn Beck, by calling him out directly on busy Wantagh Avenue:

The brouhaha that launched a media storm and sparked Pastor Garner into action is the now very public face off between Glenn Beck and the Reverend Jim Wallis, founder of Sojournersand long time political activist.

On March 2, Glenn Beck said on his radio talk show:

“I beg you, look for the words ‘social justice’…on your church website. If you find it, run as fast as you can.  They are code words….social justice is a perversion of the Gospel.”

Wallis, in response posted an open letter, asking Mr. Beck for a sit down:

“I know you are used to a monologue on your show and elsewhere, but let’s have a dialogue—civil, reasonable, respectful, moral, and above all, biblical — to discuss what you have charged.”

Wallis went on to call for a boycott of Beck’s show and Beck lobbed a somewhat creepy response to Mr. Wallis, warning him that the “hammer is coming” and announcing he has been gathering “information” on Wallis for months.  The suggestion being, Beck is going to out Wallis in some as yet unknown, irreversibly damaging way.  (On a side note, read up on Wallis’ involvement with ACORN – this will likely make up the meat of Beck’s information.)

Pastor Ron greets me at the back door of his church situated just north of the Long Island Railroad stop.  His handshake is firm and his welcome, sincerely warm.

We make small talk in the vestibule, me thanking him for his time, telling him I would love to live this close to the beach.  Ron says he takes full advantage of Wantagh’s proximity to Jones Beach to take his Lab puppy – Jones Bitch – out to run and play fetch.  He tells me, laughing, “That's her name, it’s on her papers!”  His smile and laugh are infectious, his welcoming face accentuated by his scholarly, round tortoise-shell glasses.

Garner leads me down the hall to his office stopping to introduce me to Cheryl, the church secretary. She greets me, and then says to Ron, letter in hand, “Got something for you!”  She excitedly gives Ron a letter with a check enclosed — not a large one, but a donation nonetheless. 

This is one of a handful that have come in since Garner posted the Beck push back.  Ron seems pleased.  His message that Glenn Beck is terribly mistaken in his understanding of Jesus and social justice is finally getting out.

"Response [to the sign] has been mostly positive," says Garner.  WMCC's weekly newsletter puts the percentages like this:  80% positive, 10% negative and 10% undecided.

Pastor Garner chalks up Glenn Beck’s raving assertions to fear.  Garner and his wife lived in England, working at a church in Bath for about 8 years.  “We weren’t in the US for 9-11 and when we came back, we had no idea how fearful a society we had become.”  We were afraid of a car back firing, politicians railed against the “other," we willingly gave up a host of civil liberties with the sweeping language of the Patriot Act.  Our rightful post 9-11 fear had given way to a dangerous paranoia.  Garner’s observation of a post 9-11 America is simple and salient when analyzing Glenn Beck’s - and other pundits - fear mongering.

But Garner doesn't stop there.  He calls out almost all religions for their history of fear making as flock management and uses his own experience as an explanation of his view.

Ron grew up in a Fundamentalist home in Indiana.  He struggled with the harsh faith of his born-again Christian parents.  He says the God he was raised with was something to fear:  fire, brimstone and the lot.  Ron calls this bad religion.  An even finer point is put on Ron's bad religion theory through the experience of his mother, aging and gripped with dementia.

"My mom is tortured by the demons of bad religion.  I talk to her on the phone, she believes there are men in her room, trying to take her to hell.  She tells me she prays to Jesus to not let her go to hell,"  he says.

This, according to Ron is the product of his mother's "bad religion" and proof to him how it can damage people, sometimes forever. He admits much of his mother's claims can be credited to the dementia but Ron points out, "Those thoughts, ideas, they had to come from somewhere."

For Ron, social justice as his Jesus intended it, is nothing to fear but something to be embraced spiritually and politically.  “Beckian theology regarding social justice is easy and accessible to people,” Ron tells me, “it is the true application of Biblical social justice that takes time, research and discussion to understand.”

So what is social justice to Pastor Garner?  If it isn’t, as Beck claims “code” for Nazism, cause for unbridled fear and, reason alone to run like a scalded dog from your local church — then what is it?

Ron uses the Bible, and his gut to guide him, “Matthew 25, talks about who are the poorest, who is not welcomed and who is it that makes up the least of these?”  Jesus was an outsider, Garner tells me, he was one with the peasantry, the oppressed, walking the Earth as the “other”.  He was a radical that empowered the people to speak up and push back against their oppressors, to seek true justice.  According to Garner, Micah (6:8) wasn't just talking to the individuals he challenged Israel with these words:

"God has told you, O mortal, what is good; and what does God require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?"

Pastor Garner was quick to point out Glenn Beck does not subscribe, at least publicly, to any of these divine imperatives.

What will come of his statements about Glenn Beck?  Pastor Garner doesn't venture a guess.  The response may be no more than people like me showing up at his church's back door looking for a conversation.  And that's all right by Ron, because in his view, a real conversation - not one led by television ideologues - about a loving and just God in our civil society is long overdue.  

Sources, further reading:

  • Pastor Garner's blog
  • Family Research Council - Tony Perkins to Beck's rescue
  • Jim Wallis' - Sojourners
  • Glenn Beck
  • The United Church of Christ, of which WMCC is a member, is an "open and affirming" church.  I admitted to Ron I had no idea what that meant - religiously speaking.  He said it means the Church is open to all, and affirming of a person's lifestyle and being.  It is the kind of belief system that allows same-sex parents to have Garner baptize their children.  It embraces the LGBT community in the arms of God.

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I met a woman who was the daughter of a Baptist minister and rejected her experience so profoundly that she became Muslim. This was in Virginia. Until we talked, she never knew that many Christians reject the religion she grew up with just as strongly. We'll never yell louder. Maybe we need more signs.
What a refreshing voice he has . . . I think I would like this Pastor Garner. Thanks for bringing this story here!
I wish we had some ministers like him around here! Glenn Beck is a Nazi, plain and simple.
Well, we certainly could use a little more of this kind of push-back from some of the so-called “religious moderates”. Personally, I think people like Glenn Beck remind me of the old TV show, The Gong Show. So many of the people who appeared on that show were nothing more than hacks who saw an opportunity to garner some attention and perhaps make a few bucks.

“He calls out almost all religions for their history of fear making as flock management …”

It is ALWAYS nice to see one admit something like this. I was prepared to launch into another assault of religion in general after I read that, but managed to stop myself. The combination of the concepts of religion and dementia is one that is difficult to resist.

RATED
As a non-Christian who admires Christian values, I have to say its nice to see them in practice occasionally. Good work, Pastor Garner (and you too, Ms Kopsa)
Now here is a Christian minister who practices what he preaches. Thank you for bringing him to our attention. Too many times people ignore what Glenn Beck says because he is wacko, but there are many who buy into his histrionics and fear mongering.
Good post. Pastor Garner sounds like a brave one, going against the Fox machine. Rated.
Good for Ron, but he had better prepare--I imagine he's going to feel the heat soon, unfortunately.
I go to a church like his (called "United Church" here in Canada) and it's wonderful. I came back in my 50s, having grown up in a liberal American church, and it's like coming home. There are plenty of liberal Christians, probably even a majority, so if you were brought up with fire and brimstone, take heart, and don't give up!
A whole group of pastors I know put up signs that said, "Social justice preached here." It's not as rare as you think; the irony is that such pastors rarely get the attention the ranters do because they aren't out in public trashing anyone.
I like Pastor Ron and I like this post! The ignorant rants of Glenn Beck have gone unchallenged for too long...thank GOD someone was willing to step up.
Amen sister! ~R~

What Would Jesus Do? He sure as hell wouldn't give tax-cuts to the rich. Remember, Glenn Beck, that Jesus ate dinner with Tax Collectors -- those folks that the Beck-ites like to hit with Cessnas!

I have an old post on social justice in the bible here:

http://open.salon.com/blog/indiana_joe/2009/11/24/james_the_conservative_bible_project_imprecatory_prayer
Thanks for this great piece.
I don't understand how people believe in prosperity gospel mongers if they have the ability to actually read the gospels and see how Jesus interacted with the least in society. The right wing co-opting xtianity is nearly the same thing. Don't they understand the condemnation of the Pharisees? In some Bibles it's even printed in red letters as coming from the mouth of Jesus. The gospel of money and power is a corruption of faith.

beautifully presented akopsa
I don't know how this relates, but I was talking to my 79 year old Mother yesterday who is still quite active in her church. She received a phone call recently from a survey firm. One of the questions was "Are you Baptist or are you Christian?". She thought that was really really funny.
My husband is a UCC member though he converted to Lutheran when we married. And our pastor even preached on the Beck's statement ... he rarely gets political because we live in an ultra conservative area of the country but Beck riled him up so badly that he actually preached on it.

And I think Garner would be an interesting person to interview! Thanks for sharing this!
I'd join Pastor Garner's church before I'd ever consider worshiping the God Glenn Beck reveres. I think it's time the pastors like him stood up and set the agenda instead of the fundamentalists.

I love the sign in front of the Wantagh church--how true!
I really hope that enough ministers call Beck out on his ridiculous statements but I'm afraid that this is already fading away. Too bad. Great post and interview!
Beautifully written and such a moving piece....Its nice to someone living with love and compassion....R...
Great post -- timely and essential.
Beck should be muzzled. Period. Thanks for letting me know about this lighter approach.
I love the way you do your thang! Keep up the good fight. I wish we could grab a drink sometime~
(GLENN) Beck! That dude is ruining a perfectly good name.
Thank you for bringing us this good news of a brave man. Faith and fear are the direct opposites of each other. This fearless man will inspire the country to counteract the fear that Glenn Beck spews.
Thanks all for stopping by. I am not a religious gal, but I like Pastor Ron's style. Seems like you all do to. I hope that other pastors, ministers and spiritual leaders get on the push back bandwagon. It is only people who consider themselves Christians that can make a credible case - publicly speaking - against hate spewing Christians. An atheio-agnostic gal like myself can only tell people like Ron's story and hope others take notice. xx a
As a former right-wing fundamentalist I can relate to Glenn's doom-and-gloomism and know he's operating from a position of fear rather than reality. That's the sad truth of most of these "prophets"--they go from commenting on the news to "seers," assuring us what's going to take place. Beware of prophets, they are all loons.
Good post and good thoughts Rick.
Every once in a while I come across a post that makes me glad that I joined OS. This post is one of them.

As to "bad" religion, in my formative years of six through eleven, I was "called to the altar" at every summer tent meeting in my small
Wyoming town. Imagine a nine-year old boy tearfully "confessing" his sins. My motivation was that the preacher had convinced me that I was a "sinner" and. unless I "repented", I would be cast into a lake of "fire and brimstone". The strange thing is that the sermon that impressed me most as a child was one on God's distaste for the hypocrite. In adulthood, I declared myself as an agnostic -- because I didn't want to be a hypocrite.

Need I say that your post struck a chord?
SUPERB. Best interview I've read on OS.

I genuinely like what the good pastor has to say, though I am no believer. If only, if only... And "Jones Bitch" --too funny.
Great article, a pleasure to read it.
Ditto what Tim4change said.
I've seen similar signs around Chicago, though they don't name names. Many religious people are turned off by the gospel of fear. Let's hope the tide is turning.
I love this example of independent investigation. Thanks akopsa! I was creeped out by Glenn's anti-social justice campaign--it felt like his "jump the shark" moment, frankly. I'm glad he's getting some pushback on it.
Glenn Beck isn't SMART enough to be a Nazi.
One of these days God is going to cause Becks tongue to fall out from all the filth he spews
Excellent post. Pastor Garner is a brave man; more than I can say for Mr. Beck and his ilk who don't look too deeply into what they're talking about. Now, if someone like Rick Warren would get up there and put his considerable weight to bringing other good pastors into the light.

I'm no longer religious, but I respect those who live there beliefs. There are too many voices of people who don't.
Thank you for this portrait of a true Christian.
Excellent post. It will be interesting to see what Beck tries to do to this true man of faith. I have never understood how anyone could read the New Testament, claim to revere it and yet champion modern American conservatism.
I want to thank you all for commenting here - I can tell you Pastor Ron is touched by all your comments. xx a
The most bizarre thing about happening on this article is that I grew up in Wantagh and-when my family attended church -this was our church. The author characterizes Wantagh as a conservative town. Admittedly it's been a long, long time since I've lived there, but historically that wasn't the case. My parents WERE conservative and I have memories of them bemoaning the fact that my public school teachers were so liberal. Wantagh is only about 40 minutes from Manhattan: how conservative can it be? Anyway, glad to see that my old church is headed by a progressive now. You go, Pastor Garner!
This minister really has it going on when it comes to W.W.J.D.?

In too much of today's popular Christianity, Jesus is harder to find than a needle in a haystack.
In my own point of view, there is no question as to what type of religious affiliation you are involved with as long as that affiliation teaches about loving and believing in God and how God plays a very important role in everyone's life. As long as we nurture and practice the words of God every single day, as long as we do what God loves to see us doing like sharing love and respect to our friends, families, neighbors and to the rest of the world.
Our society needs people who thinks and believes like Pastor Garner, a great person and community leader.
Nice post. I learn something more challenging on different blogs everyday. It will always be stimulating to read content from other writers and practice a little something from their store. I’d prefer to use some with the content on my blog whether you don’t mind. Natually I’ll give you a link on your web blog. Thanks for sharing.
Pastor Garner is such a great example for all those pretending to be good people! congress
Great examples you gave! I admire your work, even if at first I was a little skeptical about promoting religion on the internet! important is the message to reach people, but not the way how come! Oregon Cycling Action
Great examples you gave! I admire your work, even if at first I was a little skeptical about promoting religion on the internet! important is the message to reach people, but not the way how come! Oregon Cycling Action
We need ministers like you all over the world - it's great because you are so realistic and yet preacher of the holy! Syracuse Business
Story sick son and his mother touched me to tears! It's sad when religion can't help! Candied Cartel
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I love that pic with "I'm sorry mr Beck..."
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I can't believe that the puppy's name is Jones Bitch - that's pretty funny!
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I like your response to the radio show on March 2nd!
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Ron's story is downright impressive...Ron stay strong!
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Now here is a Christian minister who practices what he preaches. Thank you for bringing him to our attention. Too many times people ignore what Glenn Beck says because he is wacko, but there are many who buy into his histrionics and fear mongering Love Poems
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My athiestic/agnostic leanings make me inclined to the suspicious when it comes to religion and religous leaders- most of whom seem to be on power trips or working for self enrichment. But your Pastor Ron seems like the real deal- a compassionate, thoughtful progressive person. Too bad fear/hate mongering Nazi frauds like Beck are the ones with the media attention, money and power.
I could tell how great you are in your field of interest. You could relate in each detail very well. Thank you for spending a time on sharing such informative writings to us. I will bookmark your page and looking forward to read some more of your writings soon.
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I really hope that enough ministers call Beck out on his ridiculous statements but I am afraid that this is already fading away. Great post and interview!

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This is cool! No need to go through pages I don’t want to read. Why I never thought of it before. Two thumbs up!

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