Have you ever been to Utah? Do you know anything about the history of the state? Considering it's a state founded because 'women were more,' (see: Brigham Young) your title is ironic. It's an extremely newsworthy topic, but does need to be put in context, as does essentially any major story in Utah, whether it's Elizabeth Smart's abduction or Gary Gilmore's death. Elizabeth Smart's abduction had to do with Mormonism? Yes. Gary Gilmore's death by firing squad had to do with Mormonism? Yes. Utah governor signing into law a bill amending the abortion language has to do with Mormonism? Absolutely. You might not be able to wrap your mind around it, but you should try to familiarize yourself with the landscape surrounding the legislation.

Alicia,
Thank you for this informative post.
R

Kathy,

I've read your comment three times and still don't understand what statement you are making. Are you for this bill or against it? I would really like clarification because I feel that this is one of the most important issues to arise of late which would set women's rights back to the stone age. What difference does it make whether it's Utah or New York, anytime religion steps into the political arena, we are bound to be catapulted backward rather than forward. I understand that Utah is a Mormon state, but that does not excuse the yolk of oppression being put on women living there.

I rated but I don't know if it held.

Jon Krakauer's "Under The Banner of Heaven" provides a fascinating history of the Church of Mormon in the US. Worth reading.

Donna, I'm not making a statement on the legislation; I'm making a statement on the reporting. In this case, it's the title that's amusing, as it's sort of a 'd'oh.' "Utah: where women are less" could be on a billboard at every border crossing, and people would say, "And that's news?" Alicia says she can't wrap her mind around it, and to that I would refer her to the history of the state, and its founding governor, who had at best count 55 wives, six of whom had concurrent living husbands. Yes. Utah. Where women have always been less. Even though the argument made was that they were more.

Kathy,

Now that makes sense. I don't understand why the population of Utah has dwindled to less than zero. Are the women kept blindfolded, ears stuffed with cotton and tied to the kitchen stove with no exposure to the world at large? Seriously. How does this continue to happen in the United States?

has "not" dwindled.

Alicia, great post. I did a post yesterday called the Abortion Debate. Very sarcastic in my writing, however, I keep wondering why men have such an interest in this. I labeled it 'Uterine Envy', with apologies to Freud. It is downright creepy how Republicans do not want any regulation on businesses, guns, insurance companies, yet they feel free to regulate the most intimate aspects of our lives by trying to dictate who we have sex with, who we marry, and to ultimately treat women as walking uteruses.

Fact: There are only 29 counties in Utah, most of which are highly rural, and many of which have few medical providers of any stripe.

Fact: Any medical provider who is LDS will be excommunicated for providing or participating in an abortion.

Fact: The majority of women in Utah are LDS. In a total statewide population of approximately 2.8 million people, approximately 1.7 million are LDS.

Fact: In the 1960's, Utah women of childbearing age had an average of 4.3 children, exceeding the national average. Currently, it is closer to 2.6 children per woman, only slightly ahead of the national average. Something accounts for that decline.

Fact: The article that Alicia is citing is here: Utah Governor Signs Controversial Law - AlterNet

I am surprised people like those in Utah and a couple of other states have not died out through simple stupidity. I cannot believe that any god worth worshipping would want to discriminate and bully 53% of his creation. A fifteen year old girl who is pregnant in such a society probably is not pregnant from her own choice. While we all know of pedophile priests, few of us understand the same thing in the protestant churches. My gentle uncle had to confront a minister(and I use the term loosely) who apparently did something to my aunt that he should not have. I can only imagine what might have happened to those teenage girls in such a society. Yes, Kathy, women are less, always have been and probably will be less for some time to come.

Alicia - great post. What an interesting situation, one that I wouldn't be surprised to see in other states too (Utah is not the only state in the US with a large religious population after all, and this certainly does play a role in these legislative decisions). We all need to stay aware of these issues and speak up to our legislators.

rated.

Open Salon is the place where women are less: less than informed, less than reasonable, less than polite, less than logical, less than factual.

Utah has the highest happiness in the country. Utah has the lowest crime rate, lowest amount of rapes, and one of the highest student test scores.

You want to see a state where "women are less"? Go to NY or CA.

Listen, i am nooo fan of these sorts of politics nor of the Mormons, but anyone actually inside the state who doesn't know that this is just the sort of theocracy they live in is either an idiot or delusional- MOVE OUT since theres no way anyones taking down the LDS in Utah- and people actually wanted a governor from this state full of cultists to be president? sad.

Kathy Riordan, I have no idea what your problem is with me, but this is my blog, not a newspaper column. I can write about whatever I damn well please and make it personal if I want to. Yes, I don't understand the decision by the state, and I made the title of the post what I did as a reflection of what I think about the law. Period.

If you don't like it, you don't have to read it.

Bonnie, Yawn night is not only a vicious misogynist, but he is also a coward. Click on his name and you will see that he has removed all the blog posts that reveal the depths of this hateful unter "man."

These comments, particularly yours, John Knight, remind me of the sorry state the country is in today. The "Christians" don't recognize the Catholics. The Muslims don't recognize the Jews. And the Mormons don't recognize each other. In the liquor store.

"Have you ever been to Utah? Do you know anything about the history of the state?"

Kathy- with all respect- I don't think either of these things are necessary to understanding that this law is disrespectful of women and dangerous to their health and well-being. Your insistence on "putting things in context" makes it sound like Utah is another country for God's sake. Did they secede without the rest of us noticing? Or is your point that we should ignore this Handmaid's Tale of a law because, you know, Mormons will be Mormons?

The Mormons are taking over Idaho as well. I suppose they're a slight improvement over the Ayran Nations types who seem to flock to that state, but that's just a supposition over a matter of degree.

To me Mormons are Scientologists without the technology. Why do we exempt these cults from taxation? But then... why do we subsidize ANY religion through our tax policies?

Hey Bonnie, read this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29633972/

Utah happpiest state in the Union.

John, the poll you linked to addressed financial, physical, and mental health, when they prevent the sick from seeking help, the sick aren't counted. Therefore, the state is happier! See how bias may be a big part of the rating used?

Also, other studies have shown that those of "faith" are generally happier because they don't stress as much even if they are worse off. Utah being as full of faithful as it is would, of course, be less stressed (i.e. happier by some definitions). This does not mean the residents are better off.

Alicia, don't be an idiot. The poll addressed mental health, financial well being, and physical health and Utah scored number one. Utah actually beat Hawaii.

As for religion, of course they are happy because they are more religious. That is the whole point. They believe in something bigger than themselves. Why should that disqualify them?

The ridiculous point of your silly little rant is moot. Women are happier and safer in Utah than any other state. Their children are well educated and healthy.

But this is not really about Utah. You hate religion and you hate conservatives. Otherwise, why not write about black people who commit 50% of all murders in this country even though they comprise only 14% of the population. Or that inner-cities run exclusively by Democrats have the highest rape and murder rates in the country? Take a walk in Central Park at night and then take a walk in Utah. I bet you'd feel much "greater" in Utah.

If you were truly concerned about women, you'd write about those things. But, no, you pick on Utah just because they don't want pregnant women killing their babies.

Your post was a partisan attack under the guise of caring about women.

I bet any one of you enlightened women would choose Utah over any black majority city to live. Yes, you'll deny it in the safety of your little suburban home. But, we all know the truth. It is fashionable to attack white religious people.

John: Sorry, but CA is women's state. (and I don't mean that in a good way)

Regarding the post, until the climate changes in Utah, until the voters get off their asses and VOTE and until the state cuts its "cult" strings . . .nothing will change, including this.

No idea what you are talking about LadyMiko

John, you're an ass. Any further comments from you that don't advance the discussion of this particular law will be deleted.

John: "I bet any one of you enlightened women would choose Utah over any black majority city to live."

LOL "Enlightened" mean different things to different people.

John: You implied that CA was a state where women are treated "less than" and I corrected you. :)

@mr. misogyny, yawn night "Or that inner-cities run exclusively by Democrats have the highest rape and murder rates in the country?"

The highest crime rates in the country are in the RED southern states which are primarily governed by republicans:

"Southern states had the highest overall crime rates."

See my recent posts on "Women Are Whores"...women are the eternal blame target, thanks mainly to Christianity and Islam....men rape, torture, start wars, engage in violence against women and children, are politically corrupt and self-serving, enslave women and children, are perverts, pedophiles, and serial killers as we see in the news EVERY DAY, but nothing's as bad as a woman who has an abortion, for God's sake!!

The REAL criminals in this nation are the evil men in Congress, big banks, corporate board rooms, but women are so easy to condemn, so easy to kick around. And nothing men do, no matter how perverted, no matter how evil or sick or violent, can EVER be as bad as an abortion. Of course, these same men do NOTHING for the 20 million children at risk in this nation right now, but let's bring more babies into the world since we can't even successfully raise the ones living and breathing in this nation right now!!

My mother had two miscarriages and so did I! On top of that misery, women could be arrested?!!! But hey, I predicted exactly this and used to tell my students that miscarriages could some day be used to prosecute women for having abortions, that "private" medical records could be used to do so.....Think of the cost to taxpayers of investigating every miscarriage as a possible abortion!!!

When I read things like this, that in this current DEPRESSION, this is what evil men come up with to worry about, I feel sick!! This is nothing but another attack on women....

What a country!!!

i live in Central NY; it ain't the big city. there's lots of NY State that isn't. i don't feel i am less because of where i live.

but i can sleep well tonight knowing that i am an 'enlightened' woman, even if i am (allegedly) 'less than informed, less than reasonable, less than polite, less than logical, less than factual.'

terribly sweeping statement from someone posting shite.

Hey, do you suppose John Knight is smoking weed? I've lived in Utah. What he writes is so Not true.
Bonnie Russell

Hello Bonnie... two things
1) Don't blame bad behaviour on good weed :-D
2) I saw on another post your dad is going to end 70th reunion?
Thats neat.. i sure hope he has some good stories to tell you that will share with us sometime.

Funny underwear! Burkas! Is there much of a difference??

Although we've grown to expect insanity from Utah, it's damned frightening when a group of people ANYWHERE can legislate such absolute control over another human's body. It's rather like fascism, isn't it; it doesn't appear overnight, it happens because people keep ignoring what's happening every day.

Irony of the day - abortions are murder, but miscarriages caused by, or at least with knowledge of an omnipotent/omniscient god are simply a test of faith.

lol missingK8 :)

Thank you everyone for taking the time to comment. I had to remove some spam, I apologize if I messed up and legitimate comments were removed.

This thread got entirely hijacked on whether or not anyone in their right mind would want to live in Utah.

The important issue is that:

Somewhere around 15% of known pregnancies end in miscarriage. Determining the cause of the miscarriage requires saving the bloody mess (which looks like a heavy, clotty period) and getting it analyzed. Sit on the toilet or throw away your sanitary napkin and you've destroyed the proof of your innocence.

Some miscarriages are unexplained.

Where is the burden of proof? On the woman? Or on the state? Because if it's on the woman, Utah has just burdened women who've undergone the tragedy of miscarriage with a lot of extra costs.

Yes! Thank you, Malusinka

Yawn: "No idea what you are talking about LadyMiko"

Yawn!


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