My first FB post on Saturday:
I've decided that I'm a coffeetarian. I just finished worshipping at my coffee shrine (my morning latte) and I am filled with light and love. And lots of nervous energy!
Then, as the news came in about the shooting in Tucson:
I have to rant here - WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!!!! Are we moving into sectarian war here, like in Iraq? What political end could possibly justify this shooting? Do we now need to profile for conservative wingnuts, and put them in camps? Are they purposefully creating a self-fulfilling prophecy, to start a culture war? This is abominable!!!! If the GOP and every TP leader doesn't come down hard on this, they are complicit.
Guilty as charged of over-reaction and blame-throwing. Maybe I should have had a little less coffee.
But as we backtrack and re-assess and try to come up with conclusions, there are still a few points I want to make, before all is cleaned up nice and pretty.
1. The lack of gun laws in Arizona made this possible. Semi-automatic weapons belong in war and law enforcement, not in the hands of any unstable individual who can walk into a store and buy one. If the shooter had to stop to reload, the judge, the child and the community outreach person might still be alive. If both sides in Congress don't realize that this is something that should be done in response to this shooting, then we need to start calling them to insist on it.
2. It is ONLY on the Right that violent insurrection is being trumpeted, no matter what the trolls and apologists say. I don't know the stats, but I am sure that upwards of 95% of hate-speech, personal threats, gun-waving and actual attacks are made by the right-wing. Making up shit is the specialty of Fox and the Tea Party. I don't feel we have anything to apologize for, Olbermann notwithstanding. Liberals are pro-government, pro-policy solutions, pro-tolerance, pro-diversity and pro-gun regulations, by definition. Not to mention pro- helping people in need. Even if the current crop of legislators are more pro-corporation than the country needs, still, they are not unhinged like Bachmann et al.
Where are the hate groups on the left, Where are the left-wing militias? If there were any, I'd hear of them. I admit, I loved the Weathermen in college. I admit, Gotta Revolution was my favorite song in the 60s - but that was effing 50 years ago! And the world was a vastly different place. I admit, I get really angry at the right-wing and their hate speech. But I don't ever act on it and I wouldn't ever exhort someone to act on it. I feel like spitting on Palin's shoes, not threatening her life (not that I would bother to get close enough to do it, or really why expend any bodily fluids on her at all). Sure, that makes me a violent liberal.
And if I were in public office - a position of extreme responsibility - I would understand that my words would be taken seriously by all. That is where the GOP, Fox, the Tea Party and so-called religious leaders fail. That is how they are complicit, no matter how hard they deny it.
So, was I guilty of over-reaction? Check. Did I toss blame around and endorse extreme government reprisals when I should have waited to see what was true? Double Check. I only reprint my statement to point out that I am capable of anger and knee-jerk reactions, like anyone. Guilty as charged. I apologize to all of you for that.
But am I equally to blame for hate speech that proposes taking the law into our own hands? Did I make statements that were threatening to individuals (other than spitting on them)? Did I support government overthrow? Did I propose gun use or bomb use? Did I threaten to stalk or sexually abuse those who disagree with me? No, I don't think so. Our own OS trolls did that in spades, far, far more threatening and disgusting, far far more reactionary - when it wasn't their representative or their political party that was attacked. So I want to take a stand here for liberals. No matter what the politics of the shooter in Tucson, we didn't whisper in his ear, or give him tacit permission to take matters into his own hands. We are not guilty of that.
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This is totally different. Violence to perpetuate oppression and injustice is never acceptable. Leftist violence is also not appropriate in America, as we have the right to demonstrate, protest, write, speak our minds and vote.
r
Myriad, you get my point exactly. I don't blame you for decamping to Canada.
rw- Even during the "violent, oppressive, authoritarian regime.." of George the W, liberals were pretty quiet. Indeed, I think we were too quiescent, but we kept to the high ground, in the midst of extreme provocation. I think that's a hallmark of liberalism, as well.
Good comments.
Yours was reasoned and not hysterical as was the frightened blogger's #1.
I wonder if these hysterical anti gun nuts have any idea of the number of guns owned by people like me.
I would bet that they have absolutely no idea.
I once had a couple visit in which the woman was one of "those".
I excused myself and went upstairs to get one of my guns.
I brought it downstairs and, I could hear the sharp intake of breath while she almost paniced.
I put the gun, a .22 rifle which was NOT loaded on the floor and said, "Ok, gun. Go out and find someone to kill. We're waiting for you, gun".
When the gun didn't move, I just looked at the woman and didn't say a word.
I don't know if she understoood or not butt, since I do not subscribe to uncontrolled violence, that was ny way of making my point.
Myriad, would you like to adopt me?
The reason we don't see this more in other countries is because of less guns, to be sure, but they have high violence rates with knives. A knife makes you have to get up close and personal, is harder to use, and people can get away from you faster. That doesn't stop the violence, that just changes the crime.
No, I don't think there is an easy answer, and no, I am not pro gun. I just happen to know plenty of people who do own guns who would never consider killing anyone other than self defense. Had the shooter not been taken down, another bystander with a gun likely would have shot him. Is that good or bad? It's reality.
Arizona's gun laws, among the most lenient in the country, allowed Loughner to conceal and carry his firearm without a permit, explains Washington Post reporter James Grimaldi. Grimaldi, a Pulitzer Prize-winning investigative reporter, wrote a piece on Sunday about Arizona's gun laws.
"Essentially, there is very little obstacle to purchasing a weapon in the state of Arizona," Grimaldi tells Fresh Air's Terry Gross. "There are laws that require you, federally, to be at least 21 years old to purchase a handgun. But basically state law permits anyone 21 and older to own a firearm and also, to carry it concealed in the state. That's different than many other states, many of which have stricter gun laws."
In January 2010, Gov. Jan Brewer signed a bill which repealed an Arizona state law that required gun owners to have permits to carry concealed weapons. Arizona's previous governor Janet Napolitano, now the Homeland Security secretary, had vetoed previous attempts from the gun lobby to scrap the permit requirement.
Arizona also allows gun owners to carry their weapons almost everywhere in the state, including government buildings and inside the state Capitol. Exceptions exist for private businesses and doctor's offices.
Murder (regular homicide, not mass murder like saturday) has a very low recidivism rate, and is usually triggered by the heat of the moment when the gun is present, and the person lacks inhibition due to rage, drugs, alcohol. That didn't happen here. Most people who do that, not all, are not criminals before that moment. That means prevention must also come in different ways. Whether or not he was registered or licensed to carry, he was intent on murder with a high powered weapon. Many of our soldiers return home and have their weapons, and other issues, and we see them hurting themselves and their families at alarming rates. With treatment, which comes with financial support and recognition before the violence escalates, we can prevent.
I do believe people should be properly trained and licensed and checked and registered for each and every gun. In the US, that isn't likely going to happen, especially with the federal and state funds going down instead of up. It costs a lot of money. That doesn't keep dishonest people away from crime, but over time it might slow down the rate of availability. There are few deterrents to crime, actually, that work. Other than police supervision and early prevention. Which we'd also have to pay for, more taxes.
latethink - I agree and thanks for the point that we are being set against each other while others profit off our conflict. i really long for conservatives to come up with solutions and not attacks. I don't think we are going to see that happen, though. Somehow, liberals are still being slated as the enemy.
Thanks, Patrick, it is sickening and tiring and I have kept away from cable news as well. And, I am still waiting for those honest people on the right to confirm your statement. There was an Arizonan legislator who did say that the vitriol had to stop, but he didn't specify whose vitriol and he wouldn't allow his identity to be known. That means the terrorism is working.
Thanks for coming by, Mime.
Blue - I suspect that anyone who listens to Fox News doesn't bother to listen to MSNBC or in fact anyone else to make a factual comparison. And Obama has so many false statements made about him, it's ridiculous.
Oryoki, you are right about the mental health issues and Stellaa and Dr. Spud had great posts about that. I would have much preferred that the attack was made by a knife, don't you? Far fewer victims probably, and Giffords would not have needed brain surgery. I just read you follow-up comment with many valid points, and you have hit on an issue that has had hardly any coverage - taxes. Because of the economy, police staffing, procedures and equipment has suffered. However, the pressure, especially from the right, has been to cut income and property taxes way, way down to nothing, so deterrents will become non-existent. Does the right to carry a gun by just anyone make up for that lack? At least the police have training and specific methods that reduce collateral damage. I personally would prefer to pay higher taxes to get better police coverage. And that is generally the case in blue states.
Of course Oryoki is correct in advocating available healthcare, mental and otherwise, but seems to also be advocating the status quo--just keep things as they are or they will get worse. I respectfully disagree. We need more brave people in office like Sheriff Dupnik who are willing to speak out and legislate against special interest. And it seems now you would have to be braver than ever to do such a thing.
Don't bring a shovel to a snowblower fight.lol
I am not an NRA member. I don't agree with a lot of their BS.
I don't think everyone ought to own a gun and, I know some people who I don't think ought to be allowed to own a hammer.
I'm not one of those people who think there ought not be any sorts of gun laws.
I do think the ones on the books are not properly enforced.
I do believe that there ought to be safety courses for EVERYONE who would own a gun.
Not all of us who own guns are unreasonable about said ownership.
So many who poster here think that that is the way we think when we debate their hysteria about guns as being irrational if one hasn't had an actual negative EXPERIENCE invovling a gun.
I also find it backward that it may be easier to buy a gun in AZ than get mental healthcare if that is so.
So, there is irrationality from gun owners and the anti's.
This is an unwinnable debate and heated argument serves no true purpose.
I learned alot more about you from your comments on other posts, I have no beef with you personally, or gun owners in general. I just question your erroneous assumption that I think all guns are bad, that all gun owners are irresponsible, or that any criticism of the laxity of gun laws in Arizona means criticism of the way that you handle your weaponry. An 8 year old boy died last week at a gun show handling an Uzi. A nine year old girl died on Saturday, shot by a semi-automatic pistol. Is that OK with you? Just taking those two incidents, can we really afford to revert to knee-jerk responses? You, as a gun owner, could be leaping forward with ideas. You certainly know more about that world than I do, so why aren't you posting suggestions about how an event like Saturday's shooting could be avoided? That's the discussion I'd like to hear.