Ardee

Ardee
Location
Asheville, North Carolina,
Birthday
October 18
Title
Super Hero
Bio
Artwork for banner adapted from "Mister X," by William P. Marks, Vortex Comics • Blog Title from "Serenity" by Joss Whedon _________________________ A fiber artist making wool felt garments and gallery owner. Previously, I have been all these things: • architecture office manager • department store clerk • restaurant: waitress, bartender & barback, cashier, busboy, dishwasher, prep cook, line cook, manager • architecture student • engineering draftsman • graphic designer • advertising art director • magazine publisher • fanzine: publisher, editor, writer, photographer, designer • garage band manager • web designer & programmer • database (FM pro) developer • software trainer • non-profit organization staff member • ad salesman • fiber artist: weaver, spinner, tapestry weaver, dyer, feltmaker • reader • writer • sailor • runner • drinker, toker • big sister • oldest child • wife (2x) • swinging divorcee

MY RECENT POSTS

SEPTEMBER 18, 2011 3:46PM

Discovering that I’m not that desperate

Rate: 34 Flag

I filled several OS posts with my sadness at the end of my marriage and my longing for someone to share my life with. I’ve joined online dating services with no luck in meeting anyone locally. I’ve railed against the tendency of men my age to date younger women and bemoaned the invisibility of older women in our youth-obsessed culture. I’ve envied every woman who’s visited the gallery with an attentive, intelligent man in tow. I’ve wished for someone to go with to a concert or a club so I can say I have a social life. 

And guess what? I was wrong. I’m really not that interested in 90% of what I’ve been wishing for. 

“Be careful what you wish for; it might come true” has now become fact for me. An un-attached, nice-looking man in my age group did find his way down my gallery stairs last week and - omigod - asked me out on the spot. I was so flabbergasted that I agreed, pretty much instantly. I had enough conversation with him to be sure he wasn’t a sociopath, and I chose to go to a music club as opposed to dinner, which seemed a little safer. But yes, I was thrilled, to say the least. 

Oh, there were warning signs, like the fact that he boasted of being a “dyed in the wool conservative,” and that he talked nearly non-stop about himself. Well, I was willing to overlook some flaws, just to be able to say that SOMEONE asked me out. Desperate, yes, I would say so. 

But he was very complimentary, which is something that every woman wants - please tell me I’m pretty!!! - at any age. When you’ve waited for compliments for over 5 years, that was a deciding factor. And he seemed interested in the gallery and what I do. OK, it was worth a shot. 

So the first date happened, and it was fine. I told him ‘no politics’ so that we wouldn’t be at loggerheads right away. And he respected that request. Nothing untoward happened, he paid my entrance fee and bought me a beer and we had some pleasant, if impersonal, conversations. Very gentlemanly, as I would expect from someone my age. But as we talked, I realized more and more that we had nothing in common, and we had no future together. I think all women make that determination pretty quickly, since it’s the future that we think about. When I was younger, and still had hormones, I knew within a half hour if I wanted to sleep with a guy, and an hour if I wanted him as a boyfriend. But as an older woman, the competing imperative for me was, ‘male company at any cost.’

Or so I thought. 

He is an engineer, here temporarily on a project, so he has a rotating schedule of long hours on the job and long hours off. I didn’t see him for a week, and started to have some doubts. But I kept reminding myself that we could just date while he is here, with no strings, pleasant company, that’s all. No need to vett him for boyfriend material, much less husband.  And he is clearly interested in the same pleasant company role from me, someone to watch football with at the local sports bar (though I hate sports bars and football bores me), someone to go with to concerts and clubs, dinner, movies (more in line with my interests)… yes, there was a brief mention of going back to his rented house afterwards, but I ignored that since we had only spent a few hours with each other so far. 

Hmmm. Yesterday, he called and I dropped in to the sports bar that he frequents here in town to see him. I knew he wanted me to stay for the evening, but I had a very real and urgent reason not to do so. I’m on deadline for an upcoming craft show, the biggest event in my busy season, and I’m madly making things to fill my booth. I can’t hang out with a guy, drink beer and watch football, even if I wanted to. So he tried to convince me. Copious compliments. Getting me into conversation to keep me there longer. Talking about how we could watch the game at his place so we didn’t have to stay at the bar.  And then his ultimate strategy, his offer of backrubs and breakfast. 

So there it is. Why do men think that pancakes with maple syrup and some inept shoulder kneading is an effective come-on for women?  I was instantly creeped out, though I tried to hide it. I made a joke about it, and rolled my eyes at him, and then he told me I was “precious.” Gag. I made my escape quickly, trying not to show my revulsion. 

Sex with a stranger, clumsily offered. The funny thing is, when I had hormones roaring through my veins, I would have done it without the pancakes. But it’s ‘been there, done that, so not interested’ for me now.  I mulled over that revelation all last night and realized that there IS a reason that men my age date younger women, and it’s a damn good one. Sex for me now, sans estrogen, has to include trust, patience, delicacy and gentleness. Not with someone who is looking for arm candy and short-term wad-shooting. Not with someone who thinks of me as “precious” without having the slightest idea of who I am. Not on your damn life. Go find yourself a 30-year old and don’t waste my time. 

So here’s the bottom line, I will be 60 next month. I don’t look it, but biology doesn’t lie. I’ve had all the risky sex I’ll ever want (and probably lots more than him) and don’t need to tolerate someone’s cheesy jokes and boring interests to fulfill a hormonal need. I don’t need to endure invalidating comments and empty compliments to make my life worthwhile. I may someday find a partner, someone who wants to share my life and honor me with his respect and intimacy.

It’s far more likely that I’ll run across men who haven’t gotten past frat-boy come-ons and an obsession with the conquest of the next pretty girl. I think I can wait. I think I can do without. I think I’m doing just fine on my own. I’m just not that desperate. 

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Posting this today, on a spammy weekend, is the equivalent of announcing news on Friday. Maybe no one will notice. :)
It's easy to torture yourself with the "grass is greener" syndrome when looking at other couples. But knowing what one wants is always best before opening yourself up to just anything - even if that does seem to limit your options.
I saw nothing here about what it is that you bring to a relationship, be it just a beer and football (gag) friendship or dinner and the theatre or marriage.

I also noted that you applied the term “creep” to him merely because he “asked the question.” I wonder what you’d have called him had he not validated you by doing so. I also wonder if you haven’t reached that age where just getting the opportunity of saying ‘no’ is more important to you than anything else. I hope that you find your Mr. Perfect. I fear that when you do (if you do) he’ll not be interested for long.

I doubt that i would be........

(*70 and counting*)

.
Brava to you. I've been a life long unmarried, so skypixie0 would probably find me stultifying, but I get what you're sayng. Originality in a guy does count, and if he takes the time to get to know you well enough to find out a good line just for you, it's a major plus. And you may have figured this out, but avoid the guys just passing through. Cheesy lines across the board and usually married.
Rated for at the very least "short-term wad-shooting." Ha and sigh...

I actually have quite a bit to say about to say on this subject, but after writing and backspacing several times here, I think I'll go do my own post Ardee.
( Did he have a boat ? ;-)

Skypi raises an interesting issue : when you stumble upon a person's post & make rash judgments before bothering to read any or all of their backstory ... o god I'm getting sleepy ...

Anyone who knows you even vaguely, Ardee, would jump at the opportunity to spend an evening with you, because anyone who knows you even vaguely knows your interests/politics/sense of humour/history/resilience & creativity.
Things which might normally matter.
( & by "evening" I don't mean "bed," either.)

It's great to read an articulate account of a casual encounter from a woman's point of view - makes me wish it was an Open Call.
I doubt many such men as that one read OS, but it's a fascinating & honest discussion to have : What Creeps You Out ?

Sixty is turning out to be a lot more productive ( and funnier ) than I ever thought it could be when I was 30 - & we just keep learning stuff !

( Did he have a boat ? )
I swear I pressed that button once - please delete the repeat, A D. Thanks.
You put into words some thing that have only fluttered past my mind, thanks. Yes, it would be good to be companionable, even intimate, but no, it would be wrong to do so at the cost of your self, your new business at a critical time, your taste. Good luck with getting ready for your big show, wish I could see all you make. Hope you'll take photos.
Rats! I had hoped that the female contingent would rally round me and the guys would ignore this. No such. Let me try to be clear for you guys:
He isn't/wasn't a creep to me. He is a normal man, with the normal amount of testosterone for his age (whatever that is.) I am the one who's changed from who I used to be - notice that I would have skipped the pancakes for the sex back when I had estrogen. I do have questions about how much of my life was driven by hormones back then, but that wouldn't be news to you guys. I am just noticing what I'm needing now that they are gone. I did really dislike being called precious. It's so cutsy-poo and I'm so not that. OK? happy now?

Harry's Ghost - thanks, you're right, I was open to just anything before and will henceforth stop the torture.

Sky - I'm not looking for perfect, but merely interested in my life as much as his own would be nice.

Thanks, Phyllis, the only woman to comment. And yes, he was only separated, not divorced, but when this started out, I was fine with that.

Trig, be kind. I love men, I really do, and there's nothing wrong with wad-shooting.

Kim, no he DIDN'T have a boat. Major point loss, there. Truth to tell, I have had no experience in dating. I let my hormones do the talking in the past. I have been clueless about what to do now, so this WAS revelatory for me. The one thing I have always thought about OS is that I could be totally myself here and if a man was attracted by my words, that maybe we could skip over the trial and error that dating usually is. Haven't met too many OSrs in person yet, and still waiting for you to drop in.
Ardee, I say you're in just the right place. I really enjoyed reading this, and found myself thinking Black Mountain might have more interesting men hanging around : )
While I'm not single now, I so clearly remember some of what you write here: that revulsion factor popping up suddenly, deciding I'd rather sit home or go out alone rather than pretend *anything* another minute, especially an interest in football!...also the touch quotient. That point when we must be noticed, looked at, touched! ...or so it seems unless that revulsion moment arrives.
I say you must be in a good place because the better company seems to arrive when the bar has been raised...or you don't care whether they do or not!
Wait, pancakes? hmmmm...:D
No boat???

Pffft on that then!! Even for pancakes!! :D
Rallying around to say, I so get this. I remember being 20 and I remember being, well, the age I am now. Things change.
In our twenties, it's all about getting the guy, seducing the guy, impressing the guy, keeping the guy... Now, it's so much less about the guy, (any guy) and more about who we are becoming at this stage of our lives... ~r
Hi Diana, hopefully all will go well and I'll get some photos up soon.

Just Thinking, thanks! for getting this. I remember when I was in high school and went out with a college football player - he was so big! and when he hugged me, I felt crushed. There was an acid-buzzing in my throat that signaled animal fear, fight-or-flight, and I've felt it periodically over the years with different men. I never put this into words, but a lot of my reactions to men have been chemical, instinctual and very confusing.

Tink, surely pancakes work in some situations. Good luck with that!

Thanks, Joan, I'm glad Im not the only one feeling this.
Oh I SO get this Ardee and am SO rallying. Good for you. There's such a peace in figuring this out.
Also want to say loved what Kim said and not so much sky :(
Slim pickings, huh. Somehow I don't think you're gonna have much more luck with a 60 yr old artsy fartsy liberal type than you did with the conservative engineer. Something about that 60 number that smacks of quiet desperation. But I know you're not desperate. I'd come down there to ticktock and bend you over and make you bark like a dog except I got blue tats, I'm not a good listener and I don't give a fuck about the future, so that counts me out.
Ardee, I trust your judgement and I get what you're saying. I'm happy that Kim came along here too, a man of lovely words mixed with a calm understanding. This was just a slice of your life, a bit longer than my camera's shutter--we observe and learn and are the better for it. Glad that you have a good feeling going forward.
Ardee, while I get what you're saying and agree with you, I also am wondering if you are as hormone free as you think. I'm a tad older than you (nevermind that) and my hormones can seem to be absent and then I simply sit next to an attractive man at a meeting (or meet one in another neutral way) and my hormones surge as if I were in my twenties. Hormones may rest or sleep but you never know when they'll report for duty.
There may be something to be said about respect and intimacy no matter what age any of us are, but it is also possible that you need it more than some.
To your credit, those two building blocks of any good relationship are right on target.
You certainly have your act together.

Best of luck to you, and whatever it is you seek, I pray you find it.
Love it. I came to that point in my life once when I really felt free of the need for a mate. God it was a good feeling. I eventually ended up married, but it's always been on my terms because I know I'd be fine without it.
This is such an excellent and sincere piece, thank you !

"I don’t need to endure invalidating comments and empty compliments to make my life worthwhile. I may someday find a partner, someone who wants to share my life and honor me with his respect and intimacy."

And even if you don't, that is very okay. I might have been tempted at the offer of a backrub, but I'd rather pay for a professional massage. You did good.

♥R
Trilogy thanks for rallying!!! I am relieved that I can say what I think now... like Just Thinking said, I've gotten tired of pretending. I actually expected sky's comment from someone on OS, feared it, since like my ex, he took personally anything I said that sounded like criticism of men. Which it wasn't! This post was about me, not him.

Barry, yes, it's a snapshot of a reaction to an encounter. I hope sharing this in mixed company hasn't caused too much upset, but thanks for your trust and support.

Well, Hawley, I use this analogy - being horny these days is like getting a phone call with the ringer turned off. The message is being sent, but I don't always know about it til much later.

JD, not sure that my act is together yet. I'm still hopeful, and at least now I know what I need from a relationship. Thanks for your good wishes.

Rei, after 5 years of yearning, maybe I'm free now too. What was that proverb, something like giving something up in order to have it? Hope that works! Thanks.

Fusuna, I have a massage chair! :) Thanks for the good wishes!
I'll play the devil's advocate here only because he didn't seem so awful. And it sounds like he really liked you. Is it possible that the real problem is this: "But as we talked, I realized more and more that we had nothing in common, and we had no future together."
Im back dating at 64 and it is interesting. I can't say that I am not desperate. I'm ok in the daytime but at night alone in bed I feel ahhhh, well, horny ha. I don't like that. I like all kinds of men except the kind you describe above. No way.
Today I met a fellow who turned me on big time. He loves to dance but lives in an rv in the park. He was rich and now he is poor. He is 71 but had energy and vibrations that were palpable. Crazy does it good but the long term effects can be serious. What baggage we all have in a lifetime! So I am mulling him over in comparison to others I meet along the way. I'm not desperate but I want it. Whatever "it" is.
I'm an artist too and I admire your work habits. If I spent half as much time doing art as I do thinking about "it" I might be better off. Might.
I do hormone replacement, most of my patients are women. When it comes to figuring out "the goals of treatment", one needs to address libido, partnership and interest. One can never presume that a woman who has lost her libido is that interested in finding it again. Sometimes, for the first time in their life, they have the freedom to not be chained to their hormones and the sex drive of their partner. Half the time, when I ask if they want their libido back, the reply is "well, my husband would like that".
Margaret, he isn't horrible, he's nice and complimentary and he likes women, and he does like me. If I were desperate, that would be enough. Nothing in common and a bed invitation after less than two hours of interaction...

Zanelle, I love your comment and I love your description of the guy you met. Hope it goes well for you, may he say and do the things that make you happy and warms that empty place next to you at night. I wish that for all of us!

Oryoki, I did a whole post way back when on that complicated subject and a comment wouldn't be long enough to do it justice. Suffice it to say, there are pros and cons for either path and HRT isn't for everyone. Thanks.
I like the brutal honesty but I think you're being too hard on the guy. if you're in a really surly mood, get his email address and then email him the link to this blog. HAHAHA. not funny? why not? you seem to have no respect for the guy, might as well have some fun instead :p
Ardee, I do hope you find a gent who's interested, and who's also worth your time.

The fellow you described doesn't sound like a horrible person, really. But he sure does sound inept. And it's not too much, at any age, to want a prospective partner to be at least a little... ept. (It's a word if I say it is, damn it.)

Excessive, empty compliments? Immediate turnoff. Actually offering backrubs and breakfast as an imagined enticement? God help us. Those are nice things to do for a date, but pretty pathetic to offer in advance, in an attempt to sweeten the deal.

I say your instincts were right. Perhaps starting with the fact that he talked about himself too much and asked about you and your world too little. Why invest your intimate energy in someone to whom you're not really attracted, and who doesn't light your fire?
I so get this, ardee. Generalizing is problematic, but my experience is that men can be surprisingly willing to rather boldly 'try' to add sex to an early, not-too-electric relationship. I've even talked to some men friends about it, and the answers have been kind of, well, why not, I could luck out if she says yes. I don't think it's a question of hormones as much as it is knowing that you want more of an intellectual and emotional connection than just a romp. And it's hard to imagine a night to write in my diary about with a guy who calls me 'precious.' ugh.
Vzn - if I called him a dick head, that would be brutal. If I said he was rude, self-centered, sex-obsessed, maybe you'd have a point. But I didn't, and none of those things are true. He's a guy who should be asking 3o year old girls out, that was the point of the post and if he took me for someone younger, his mistake. I'll let him know in my own way.
MTN, I once did a leadership course that included an exercise in listening; you had to repeat back exactly what the other person said about themselves, with no commentary or interpretation. It's surprisingly hard to do, and hard to find someone who has that ability. Thanks for getting the real communication here... It makes me feel hopeful that some other guy will also.

Candace- very interesting! 50 or 60-something men still hoping to "luck out"? I have many conflicting reactions but have to go back to 'been there, done that' and hope they find a younger woman to luck out with.
Interesting take on the subject Ardee. Having been separated for almost five years now, I've considered getting back into the dating pool. Like you, the availability of ready sex isn't quite the calling card it once was. But sometimes I do miss the company and conversation. Sports bars and football for a non-fan is really beyond the call of duty.
Abrawang, dating certainly isn't what it used to be, and I have to wonder if now we are setting our sights higher or lower than we used to. Anyway, thanks for your vindication on the sports bar issue! And good luck on your own dating journey.
Hey Ardee, read and understood. I have changed a lot since I hit 50 and I know I would be looking for a connection of some sort also. Good post and good to see you back.
I'm not desperate and I'm straight, but we'd have a funner evening together than either of us could with the man you describe. I've been single for two years, and if I may share an observation from the dating front lines: when someone's politics are dramatically different than yours, most everything else will be too. Give me a short pudgy hairless man with a great grin, twinkling eyes, and a healthy respect for Abbie Hoffman. Those too handsome GOP men will expect you to do their laundry.
"has to include trust, patience, delicacy and gentleness"

Well ... yeah. Shouldn't it always? At any age?

Anyway, RD, you made the right choice.
I'm at the stage where friends fill my social needs and I like lots of alone time. I've tried men ...
And lack of men means NO FOOTBALL. Bonus: NO HOCKEY. Also: NO BASEBALL, SOCCER, GOLF. (Men are really into playing with their balls...)

Tho I have to say in fairness that my late (and last) husband only liked Nascar races, which only happen Sunday mornings a small part of the year. It was entirely bearable and even rather endearing.
I read this yesterday, but didn't have time to comment. I give you a double thumbs up for recognizing what works, and doesn't work, for you . . . and following that inner guidance. Rock on.
Rita, I get a wild hair every once in awhile and have to come back and stir things up. Glad that you came by and found something that resonated.

greenheron, Yes! I agree 100% on the politics issue and send me someone who (remembers!) and respects Abbie! Repubs set my teeth on edge.

Boanerges, Yes, you're right, but I used to also like those quickies, back in the day ( my version of short-term wad-shooting). But that was then. Thanks!

Myriad, there are so many advantages to no men in the house (so much less cleaning and cooking!), but some sizable disadvantages too, that friends can't quite fill. But, I now see that adaptability is a good thing.

Thanks, Owl. I had done so much whining on OS that I thought folks would be relieved when I realized that I was fine all along.
I think this is a truly wonderful feeling and I thank you for sharing the finer points of that.
You're 60? Wow. Could have fooled me. Seriously. I thought you were in your mid to late 40s. More seriously, at 62 (63 in a couple of weeks), I've reached the point in my life where sex is no longer the drive force in my life as it once was....and I'm very happy about it. Norman Mailer once wrote a book called "The Prisoner of Sex." You don't have to read it. The title says all that needs to be said. When we were younger, we were all prisoners of our various sex drives. Now, sex is something I do to accommodate my partner who is much younger The fact that I can still do it on cue amuses me, but it doesn't make me any more or less than the next guy. But here's the truth: most men who lust after younger women are cruising for a bruising. Not immediately, perhaps, but sooner or later the age difference is going to become an issue. The difference between 60 and 40 isn't insurmountable. The difference between 60 and 80 is going to be a bitch, but I am confidant that I won't live that long.....my insurance policy runs out at 75 and I will be damned if I will let them walk away with all that money.

If my father was any indicator, I will be hale and hearty until 75 and then, in a Republican America, I might as well be dead.

Final truth: I can guarantee you this: Had he the moxie, you would have felt the warmth....he was a self-absorbed air head. Republican airhead. Need I say more.

I still think you have one of the best chinese restaurants in the south there. I hope they stay in business long enough to eat there because I think I will be coming back some day.

Alan
Algis, thanks!

Alan, I am relieved to hear you echo my reaction. I am now content to wait for the right guy who shares the warmth, and not desperate enough to waste my time with the wrong guy. I hope you do make it back to the area soon (and thanks for the compliment!)
I want to write a book called "The Desperate Hormone."
so good to hear from you! and so glad you are still writing; despite what you think, you have an audience, even (especially) for the Desperate Hormone.
“And then his ultimate strategy, his offer of backrubs and breakfast.”

Wow, this sounds straight out of a “Sex and the City” episode. I would’ve felt the same way. I love the way you handled that situation and how you described every detail. I had such a fun time reading this and felt like I was watching it play out in front of me. You are so open about your true feelings without self deprication or sugar coating. Just honest.

“I think I’m doing just fine on my own.”

Hell yeah! Not many women can say that they are the owner/operator of her dream job. Enviable for certain.