My husband and I came to parenting late in life. We were equally slow to realize how much having a child affects your social world as adults. We were fortunate to be able to decide that one of us could stay home: for various reasons, it was my husband who stayed. After the first six months with an infant son, it was clear that if he didn’t get some regular adult interaction, he would go ballistic.
So, he got involved with an online Stay at Home Dad’s group.
Through the early years, this small localized group with children ranging from infants to early elementary age met face-to-face in parks, playgrounds, swimming pools, children’s museums, and on rainy days, in malls or pizza places mid-day Monday through Friday. On the occasional weeknight they’d have a Dad’s Night Out, where the guys would go to a sports bar (sans children) to remember that they were, indeed, grown men. There were birthday parties and discussion list politics, and as the kids grew older, extracurricular play dates began to occur between those with natural affinities among the children and adults.
Such was the development of our friendship with a couple who watches Fox News.
The wife and I got along fine: She is razor sharp and ambitious and very funny, and our kids are the same sex (male) and less than 6 months apart, so it seemed like a nice family-to-family match. And though my husband had some other friends in the group, he and “Klaus,” as I’ll call him here, seemed to enjoy a real bond: they could talk to each other for hours about guy things like motorcycles and power tools, and seemed to share a general frustration for the lack sanity in modern times that allows friends to bitch together as an entertaining game.
The men began to visit privately in our respective homes two or three times a week as the boys got older and we mothers worked.
Looking back, we didn’t even realize that there was a serious difference in our politics until the 2008 elections, when they began to talk openly about voting for McCain. Of all the Republicans, McCain was the least offensive to us, and we probably wouldn’t have been crushed if he won. Now, I’m only mildly political, a registered Democrat who has voted from Republican to Independent to Green to Libertarian, depending on who better supported funding for arts education and women’s reproduction rights and seemed truly interested in avoiding war. At the time, I was very sad about Hillary’s ungraceful fall, and was loosely following the career of Governor Huckabee, because he, oddly enough, (like many Republicans) was a strong supporter of arts education. My husband liked honest John Edwards...sigh. But that doesn’t matter, because my husband hasn’t voted in twenty years and doesn’t believe our votes count anyway. This is just to say how little my husband and I are invested in politics, and to justify why we chose to overlook our friend’s increasingly conservative political views as long as we did.
To complicate matters, “Klaus,” as I am calling him, had only recently immigrated to the United States from Germany. It was his life dream to come to this country, to be free to pursue the American dream. We celebrated the day they got their green cards, and they’re counting the days until they’re eligible for citizenship. While he was socially liberal, generally supporting women’s reproductive rights and gay marriage, he was dead set against any liberal economic policies: new taxes or regulations on business. He wanted to start his own business and own a lot of land that he could will to his son. He was against the repeal of the Bush estate tax cuts and dead-set against “Obamacare.” He had horror stories about the socialized medicine of Europe, which he and his extended family had experienced first hand with some serious ongoing health issues.
And we admired them then, and still do. They are exceedingly industrious, risk-taking, and hard working. They are generous and gregarious and give a great party. And they are pursuing the American dream. He took out loans and started an online business that is slowly working, and they found a deal on a lovely, modest home with 5 acres of land, albeit 25 miles away from town. We continued to visit them on a regular basis, often staying the night and swimming in their pool and having a great breakfast that they cooked for us as the children played together.
Still, none of this prepared us for their increasingly fanatical rants against Obama, directed at us as if we were among the President’s staunchest supporters. First, there was the snarky “How’s That Hope and Change Working Out For You” bumper sticker that appeared on the back of their American-made SUV shortly after the economic collapse, which we intentionally ignored. Then, there was the Sarah Palin biography that she gave me for Christmas last year: which I wasn’t sure was intended as a gag gift, or a not-so-sly attempt at a political conversion. I haven’t been able to open the cover long enough to entertain actually reading it. But this past holiday season, they took to leaving Fox News on the big screen television for long periods during our visits to their home.
There it is, in the background, like a strange alter-America: a throwback to the 1950’s with a glossy theatrical sheen. Why are all the women on Fox News young with caked-on make-up, and all the men as white and grey and stiff as sin? How can they say with deadpan seriousness that it’s “no spin,” as if they are the ultimate harbingers of truth, and no one else has a clue about any issue on any subject anywhere in the world? My husband and I believe the world is an exceedingly complicated place, and that it can’t be reduced to simple, crude, often moralistic, black-and-white explanations.
But I barely allow myself to think this way while I am a guest in there home. It's like a vacation. It's like some kind of escape from reality.
We agree to avoid talking politics, but I am curious about what they think about social issues from time to time, and why. So I ask them earnestly why the health care reform isn’t a wholly good thing. In an attempt to keep our friendship going, I take to reading some of Fox News online, trying to give it the benefit of the doubt: The tech news is kind of interesting, and sometimes breaks sooner than some of the other media outlets. But I have to say, I still find the general reporting, well, you know, rather thin.
And even though we have an agreement not to, it’s hard not to let the politics creep in, particularly via the economy and the military. I tried not to take the bait about how Obama was spending millions on his recent trip to India (a later-refuted ultra-conservative story) vs. the billions being spent in Iraq for the past seven years; or how bad the taxes were going to be next year for those of us who make under $250,000 (I’ve looked at mine already, they’re pretty much the same as before). I try not to cringe when they speak so emotionally of supporting the troops, ignoring the fact that my husband himself is a veteran who has no love for the so-called wars our country has fought and is currently engaged in. We actually sat politely with them and watched the Bush interview with Bill O’Reilly the day after Thanksgiving, trying to speak positively of how charismatic the fellow is, which is hard for anyone to deny. They somehow took that as criticism and more evidence of our ultra-liberal leanings.
Looking over at Klaus watching Fox News in his easy chair, it is hard for me not to feel sad that this basically gentle Stay at Home Dad who wanted so strongly to escape his nation’s ugly political legacy can so deeply embrace a new fanatic rhetoric without apparent question, without a healthy doubt. “I’m a simple man,” Klaus likes to say, which I always took as a cover up for his more tender, retrospective inner core. Now, I’m not so sure. Maybe he's really just into America for the power and money.
It still seems ironic that liberalism compels us to try to understand the other side of the story, while conservatism seeks only to control, humiliate, disarm, and dismiss other points of view. But maybe that assessment is also biased.
Are we at fault for letting our need for companionship overshadow our liberal social values, even if they are only loosely held?
In the end, it is not Fox News that has caused the most serious rift in our family-to-family friendship. It is the more fundamental, in-the-moment issue of parenting.
During the last visit, the kids were playing more rambunctiously than usual. Over the years, my husband and Klaus have always managed to support each other’s parenting styles, although Klaus is more verbally direct in his disciplining, and my husband is more rewards/withholding based. Their child is naturally more aggressive, and ours is more inquisitive. The boys have always had a tendency to fight.
This visit, Klaus’ kid was being even more dominating than usual. They were playing “hunter,” due to his new fascination with crossbows, which a neighbor in law enforcement had introduced him to. His kid was pretending to have a crossbow. Our kid was playing the deer. So Klaus’ kid was running around saying, “I’m going to kill you, I’m going to kill you.” And my kid was saying, “I can run, don’t kill me, I can run faster than you.” This bugged me, but I said nothing. At some point, my kid backed off from his role, wanting to change games, and called Klaus’ kid “stupid.”
Well, that was the proverbial straw. Klaus, who had pretty much refrained from disciplining our kid, as we had from disciplining his, came down on our kid verbally. “You don’t say that in our house. You don’t call someone stupid,” looming down with loud voice like a commandant. My husband intervened, “Don’t yell at him like that. I’ve never yelled at your child. No, he shouldn’t call anyone stupid, but, come on, they’re only 5 years old.”
What ensued was a long, very tense, but civil discussion of how my husband was too lenient with our son and how Klaus had double standards about what he let his child get away with and how he as a rebellious youth who worshiped "Easy Rider" was raised. My husband is not lenient at home, I assure you. He just doesn’t yell at other people’s kids. It was heartbreaking to witness the quiet anger and grave disappointment I saw my husband going through as a result of this argument with the man who had become his best friend.
What is the root of evil? Maybe it is a kind of stubborn blindness towards ambiguity and multiple, conflicting views. Maybe it’s a grasping embrace of false certainly, false comfort, false understanding, which temporarily relieves the discomfort of discord and responsibility and choice, which is why so many Americans do watch Fox News.
It sort of comes down to the same argument the kids were having in play: Liberals: "You're stupid." Conservatives: "I'll kill you." Which in both cases isn't very constructive.
So, maybe I’ve lost the thread here, but I don’t know what going to happen next with our friends who watch Fox News. Klaus and his wife have called and texted several times to see how we are doing, but we’re just not yet ready to see them yet. At this point, I don't know if we will.
There was a whole lot more to our friendship than our differences about politics and views on the news media. There was a love of family, of freedom, of individuality and entrepreneurial expression. And that is something that I can respect about the Republican agenda, as a whole.
But somehow, the fact that they actually seem to believe in Fox News, and Fox News alone, becomes an unavoidable symbol of why this friendship might not be worth a deep, personal investment over the long haul. The price of our unquestioned tolerance might just be too steep.


Salon.com
Comments
I have belonged to online interest groups - one that comes to mind is an Italian group for lovers of all things Italian. We originally came together to help each other better learn the language, and from there we shared stories and photos of our trips, our families, our gardens, our children, grandchildren, jobs, books, food, etc; there were compliments aplenty and appreciation for knowledge shared and it seems like we all felt we were enlightened by each others lives shared via this amazing vehicle called Internet. This was an active group, which generated a large volume of email daily.
Then Terri Shiavo became front page news (was it 2005?) and the dialogue that ensued cracked open a fissure that has remained to this day irreparable and treacherous. Religion and politics were the two warriors that were able to slay all other soldiers of love, humor, appreciation, pleasure, interests, and genuine good will toward one another. Once the lines were drawn, and feelings were hurt, the die was cast, so to speak. After five or six years of daily sharing and warm hearted encouragement, the group postings became so stilted, so charged with emotional blackmail and resentment based tones that the group participation dwindled down to currently about 12 active members. What's so interesting to me to note is that the few who boldly displayed their religious sanctity on a daily basis, always talking about their bible study group, their visits to church, their Christian beliefs, were the ones who would not, could not, forgive the unforgivable stance held by those who held an opposing view on the matter of the Terri Schiavo case, Bush's interference, Tom DeLay's grandstanding. To this day, right wing believers will only reply to or engage in dialogue with other right wing thinkers, and the few left thinking liberals will be shunned for their egregious socialist representation lurking in the shadows.
I hope the conflict in your friendship has a better outcome than that of my group, and I'd be interested in hearing more about that as events unfold.
I enjoyed your post very much. Hope I didn't take up too much space being too long winded.
I had a dear friend who was socially liberal but fiscally conservative. She grew up in Minnesota. In many ways, we each felt like fish out of water in Manchester, NH. It was wonderful to have someone there with whom I could discuss issues without risking a battle and alienation like what Gina Marie describes. I've had experiences like that with other people, and it can be a very harsh reality check.
Good luck in your situation with Klaus and his family.
I think it is parallel with situations in real life, non-political, that I've encountered. Virtually EVerybody is *nice* (hey, I used to visit prisons, and this applies to murderers and whatever as well), everyone has common interests in family, sports, whatever... Think of it as common humanity - the physical. We are *nice* in somewhat the same biological fundamental way we need to eat and groom each other. But underneath is a chasm that is revealed when one gets into things that on the surface seem to be superficial (who cares what effing party you vote for or church you go to - or if), but somehow underlay and overlay that layer of commonality.
As an example, somebody pissed on me (non-politically) in a non-really-TERRible way, and tho she is otherwise very *nice* and common friends urge me to *forget*, I cannot do so...because I have experienced a deep divide that I'm not interested in papering over...
This said, somehow the great divide in American politics HAS to be dealt with, somehow. All I can think of, off the top, is a PC-type agreement to refrain from violent language, sort of the way there is a general, if resented, agreement not to use racial epithets and the way there is the beginning of an agreement not to express homophobia...
I think what it is
Let us know what happens after they read this.
The fact that the GOP constantly and incessantly attacks the entire Muslim world for NOT disavowing violence, and for not DIS-OWNING those among their ideological/theological fellow-travellers who peddle and preach hate and violence.
AND YET----> What does the GOP do when a right wing extremist engages in these acts?
Does the GOP disown them and disavow them, in the way they INSIST that the Muslim world should disown their terrorists?
NO
In fact, the GOP has done FAR LESS than the Muslim world has, in terms of preaching peace, compassion, non-violence and decency.
SHAME ON THEM
Another note, German culture does differ widely on the way they raise their children than the current trend of rewarding/withholding here in the states. My brother and his wife use this with their now 3 year old son, and it's entertaining to watch them try to reason with him or watch them shrug their shoulders when he kicks grandma. It works for some, I know, but my jury is still out on it.
In any case, it sounds like you all probably are going through a rough spot in your relationship with your friends, and maybe you just need to spend time with each other on neutral ground - no Fox News at their place, no MSNBC at yours - maybe a night out without the kids, or maybe everyone taking a picnic out (when the weather is warmer) to a state park where the kids can run free, and everyone can walk and talk away from the politics of the world.
We work together and sometimes speak, but both of us are hurt and disillusioned about the other. I don't believe we can ever repair the rift, although I do believe both of us wish it never happened.
It is a terrible thing happening just now, but I believe we are being asked to examine our moral convictions. I believe we choose best when we opt not judge others, but sometimes it is a trial not to judge, choosing tolerance. We don't have to accept their morals and political stance, but we can allow space for them to think as they do. It is SOOO hard to do this, however...great post.
Yes, it seems to be a knee-jerk reaction. I just had this discussion with a liberal friend yesterday. We've noticed that when we question or critique statements of politics of the right, we're called commies, stupid, or anti-American, even when we're trying to be civil.
I think the problem it is not the fact that your friends and my acquaintances come from the former socialist block. There are people who no matter where tend to embrace easy answers. And FOX propaganda knows exactly how to package lies into short memorable expressions which easily penetrate simplistic minds.
I wish I knew the solution to "you are stupid" - "I'll kill you" argument. I don't think anybody dopes at this pint. [sigh]
rate
Which is to say, exactly what I'd expect from you, and not from the FAUX News couple.
Sad for you but also admiring this work.
You rocked this piece.
Center/left media (as there is no truly left media that enjoys and sizeable audience) - There are many problems in our society and we all have to do something about them, including YOU.
Right media - There are many problems in our society and THEY are the ones causing them.
You listen to the right wing media enough and gradually you become convinced that someone else is resposible for all society's ills and that your life would be much better if it weren't for THEM.
The center-left is more nuanced and hence doesn't fit well on bumper stickers. Plus, their audience doesn't get absolution on everything.
"But that doesn’t matter, because my husband hasn’t voted in twenty years and doesn’t believe our votes count anyway.
Jim K
I don't know how biased this is. Most of my discussions with conservatives can be summed up by your very statement, oh and add some mocking directed at my opinions for good measure.
Nice piece, I loved the melancholy feel of it. It's sad to lose friends, sometimes it's more painful than breaking up with a boyfriend sometimes. I reluctantly broke up with some friends last year. My final decision came down to how they made me feel/ treated me when we were together, and you know what? It was just plain lousy, so all in all, I think i did what was best for me, and it sounds like you did too. These people lack the respect that is needed in a working friendship.
I have a family which is Fox news addicts. You can visit and hear the quotes coming from their lips. They are born-again, very serious Christians. In reality, they are mean.
I have a family which is Fox news addicts. You can visit and hear the quotes coming from their lips. They are born-again, very serious Christians. In reality, they are mean.
I have a family which is Fox news addicts. You can visit and hear the quotes coming from their lips. They are born-again, very serious Christians. In reality, they are mean.
I admit I have zero tolerance for people like this. I started a new job and one of my colleagues, who seemed nice, spouted Fox News sound bites during lunch (I'm only aware they're Fox News sound bites because of my husband, a political junkie who keeps tabs on such things for sport). I've avoided her as much as possible ever since. I don't think it speaks well of me but I find it literally intolerable to be around people like that. They make me want to scream.
I've heard many on the right counter with "the left is just as ________ (fill in the blank)" I have searched my heart and my soul and except for a few grumpy Guses, I just don't see the same anger and bias. I would really appreciate a thoughtful and provocative post from the right. Anyone?
I believe he needs to be questioned by the FBI or whatever.
That said, my ex and I used to go fishing and hunting together.
We were(I am) the sort of sportsman who only takes what he will eat.
I helped raise her two boys.
They became the same sort of sportsmen.
We all got along really well.
I now only talk to or see the boys, now grown men in sports related visits/conversations.
The ex is an entirely different story.
She lives in Alaska and is infected with palinitis and spout fox noise and only knows what they have told her to think.
I can't talk to her, even about something so mundane as a broken washer or dryer.
It is to the point where I just don't talk to or with her anymore as, she just talks AT me about the typical hateful crap which is fox noise, etc.
This relationship or whatever it is is irreparable as I believe much of the divide in my country to be.
What a shame it is that my America has died.
Then, Marcus isn't an entrepreneur either. He's an endocrinologist.
The difference, obviously, is between one who works the system for himself, and one who finds a place in the system to help others, leaving plenty of time to play piano with his kids.
I would have a hard time dealing with your husband's friend, and feel sad for the boys, but would have no qualms about leaving a distance there. Goodness you made me think.
And I loved reading this, thank you.
The greatest difference between right vs left as I see it is this: Those on the left are willing to accept logical intelligent thought and discourse on political views, but the left are steadfast in position and unable to accept or understand differing views. This is a sad commentary inasmuch as the dialogue must be had before anything changes.
My suggestion is that you must be very firm with Klaus & Co. Either you get along without any mention of politics and 100% without F*x, or it's saronaya to your friendship. Given your limited knowledge of politics, you'd have a hard time dropping those inconvenient pieces of reality into your conversations. I assume that he watches F*x because it's the most "patriotic" news organization. I mean, if someone waves a flag, they must be good, right? :(
And if you want to use me as a reference (if you want to actually mention F*x), you can tell him that I depend on up to 30 different sources of news from all over the world. And if I wanted to balance out the viewpoint of F*x, I actually have to watch Iranian state television! Yes, F*x is that much slanted.