OK. I'm doing this now, on a Saturday afternoon when I could be scorching my lilly white ass on the beach out there, or tirelessly standing outside the dressing room door calling out to my mother, 'does that one look okay or should I get you something else?' ...geez.
I've been around the ol' OS house here for more than a year, give 6 months or so, and haven't been involved in much back street business because it's stoopid. Yes, really.
Awhile back folks were atwitter and there was some confabulation about 'rating' a piece of work. That is: thumbifying, raising a thumb, monkey fingering, or planting one on the rate button at the top of a post, either before, after, or during reading and/or commenting.
There was commotion and confusion about the sequencing of recording your satisfaction, or your kiss on someone's ass, via 'read, rate, comment' vs. 'read, comment, rate' or god forbid, rate, read, comment. I confess I didn't take it too seriously and continued to use all three approaches, which only supports my long standing assertions about having a carefree, happy-go-lucky personality.
For me and my house, we took no nevermind because logic dictates one READ first, then after reading one would COMMENT with a witty remark, and finally - on the way out the door - one might offer a wave and a kiss by RATING one's approval and enjoyment.
Alas, higher thinking does not always prevail and I began to feel someone much brighter than myself had presented a way to do things in the proper manner.
Until recently, the ::click:: that serves as a request to post a comment was greeted by a pop-up into the 'Post Comment' box. Some of you more observant folks may have noticed that's no longer the case.
The newly instituted JUMP we now receive upon requesting to offer a comment takes us on a flippy trip immediately back to the top of the page, exactamente in line with the cute little 'thumbs up' symbol, in what appears to be a calculated effort to apply a virtual elbow to the ribs and remind us it's time we weigh in with an opinion on ... whatever it is you think that button signifies.
::click:: 'yes, this really is [fill in the blank]', it's your interpretation after all.
or ::clicklite:: which is my interpretation of the button marked 'Like' because I have no interest in an FB page, but sometimes a little like is needed. (Don't listen to me though, I clearly have no informed idea about what that's all about).
And then I suppose there is the ::noclick:: option, in which case I wouldn't have asked to comment in the first place, because I almost always 'rate' when I comment.
I do, however, reserve a personal exception on my internal crazy wheel which allows me NOT to click if I don't want to. In deference to those who are anti-list, I'll just say this quickly in a non-list-like fashion:
*It's a free-for-all and I have a silly comment, but don't wish to be counted in the 'approval' column for the writer's opinion;
*I've already rated and can't rate again, but in my frenzy to type I click anyway and in doing so, remove the ::click:: I've already registered, thereby negating myself;
*I don't hold with your ideas at all and am going to say so in the comment I'm about to leave if I could just get to the damned comment box!
And for those of you who haven't already snored or clicked off this page...
I was taken to the woodshed this week by a friendly comrade because I had visited his post, read his post, and commented on his post and somehow he surmised (well not so much surmised as knew it for sure) that I had not rated his post, because I got the following PM from my friend,
"so gabby. if you liked my [post] and you meant what you said why didn't you rate it?"
Never having conversed by PM with this particular fellow, I responded,
"sorry [friend], I thought I did. I've been told if it's not done in a particular order, it might not 'stick' when you leave the page but I've never gone back to check this out. Not everyone who visits rates though, [friend]. You must know that. I wouldn't dream of confronting someone about it... I'd just chalk it up to error, forgetfulness, or it didn't meet someone's rating criteria. That's life."
To which my OS friend replied,
"You've been around long enough to know better Abby. If the writers who appreciate each others work don't acknowledge it what is the purpose of the site? First the comment, then the rating. Otherwise it deteriorates to the lowest common denominator. I thank you."
After thanking him back and considering his chastisement, I'm quandryfied.
Is it possible that the movers and shakers in the control room DIDN'T intend to send a message to their toiling subjects by prompting our delivery to the place we should be at in order to sequentially 'get it right'?
Must we proceed in the order suggested by my unhappy friend?
1) READ, 2) COMMENT, 3) then divert away from the thumb button the program has prompted us to in order to plant our comments in the box we now have to scroll to find, and 4) remember return to the top of the page to ::click:: to RATE on the way out?
I think not. Perhaps the code prompt is smarter than we are and there is an assumption that we are too forgetful to return and rate at the end, so we are being asked to do so in the middle of the process now. Makes sense to me. I do dislike all the scroll scrambling to get back to the Comment Box though. Seems like once we rate, those smarty pants programmers could prompt us on our way one more time, but I'd be the last person to ask.
Emily? is there a programmer in the house?
(And for those of you wondering about my slack habits, I always attempt or intend to rate if I comment, above exceptions noted. You know what they say about good intentions though. Hey, don't worry, you'll probably get your wish).


Salon.com
Comments
If someone doesn't rate my posting, I really hope that person will make a comment so I know why I stink.
I'm sorry you got sideswiped...I have unchecked then rechecked more rates than I care to admit to.
Its pretty ridiculous..
I read what I like and who I like and rate because people put their heart and souls in there. BUT, I am pretty honest in my comments.
Of course, if the topic is something I don't care for I don't read it.
Man it's a literary jungle out there..:)
Good Post and rated with hugs.
For the record, I always rate before doing anything else. If, in the rare instance I am offended by the post I can go back up and "un-rate" it. In fact, sometimes I can't remember if I rated or not, so I go back up and click, and if the number goes down by one, I click again so that it goes back up and my rate is registered. I do wish it wasn't so complicated, but, then, I wish a lot of things weren't so complicated, but, hey...
I've noticed the jumping and just figured the OS gremlins had conducted a sit-in in the programming, but your theory makes a lot of sense. But will somebody please explain to me how somebody would know if you rated or not?
Lezlie
If someone makes a comment that obviously shows they appreciated the work that should be enough to feed our needy egos.
Now, if we were getting paid per rating I'd say rate and read as fast as you can and don't even worry about the comment.
Oh yes. I feel much better now.
Lezlie - I don't believe they can, unless it's as LL2 says and your life is so pointless that you have nothing else to do but look-reload-look again, over and over and over. maybe the person I'm referencing will stop by and fill us in.
Love you guys! What's everybody up to tonight?
Who has time to keep track of who's rated before, after, during, whatever...? And, being the rebellious person I am, I'll do what I damn well feel like and in what ORDER I get around to it, too, thank you very much. I personally would like the "rating" button to sit right next to the comments (not at opposite ends of the post). And sometimes I rate a post but then don't remember if I've clicked it or not. Be nice if we have a button that changes colors once we've hit it.
I don't know about you guys, but the comments mean a lot more to me than the stupid thumb's up. I figure if someone is taking the time to write whether they like it, disagree, whatever...I've at least managed to engage someone. Good post Abby, I've had to wonder about OS protocol quite a bit since I've been here.
OS has a caching issue so the rating doesn't always show up until the page is fully reloaded. However, that does not mean the rating did not "stick", you're just not seeing it yet. So rate in any sequence, it does not matter.
I've been annoyed about the jump, but wasn't clever enough to surmise the intention. Like you, if I'm going to exert my lovely fingers typing a comment (as I do now joyfully, for you), I'm definitely going to rate.
I'll admit to being somewhat chagrinned when my rate/comment count doesn't jibe. I can't help wondering who didn't rate and why. If the last comment doesn't raise your rate tally, you know exactly who dissed you. But confronting someone about it? I used to be a waitress; it would be like asking why someone didn't leave a tip. It's simply not done.
Never heard of you before, but loved your post --- though since I just woke up from a nap, didn't follow it completely. Just enough to understand the OS rating police pulling you over.
For the record, I clicked the thumbs up first, then came down to post the comment but it still took me all the way to the top. So me thinks that it is just a programming error and not some nefarious conspiracy to get you to click.
However, the fact that someone would actually PM you and ask why you didn't rate his post was enough to deserve a thumbs up. That kind of behavior is whacked!
I agree with all that have given an opinion on calling me out, it's never happened before, but FOR SHURE folks count cards here. There's an entire system, a definite way to do it (Rob Amant clued me in on one of his always informative posts), but I haven't the time or inclination to show you onlookers how O-C I REALLY AM! No, no. It's ok, I'm calm now...(hand me that bottle will ya? I need to take my pills)
I then always state in actual words why I rated it. If I say nothing, then I just read the whole thing, end of story.
(R)ated, mainly because I agree with the message, get over this whole "rating" thing. If you aren't posting here out of simple l'amour for creativity, then you're a fool!
Oryoki is right, ratings just keep it higher up in the 4 hr and 'most popular' feed a little longer. Since ratings can't be manipulated, but hits to the page can be, there are also ways to get noticed in that direction. Answering each comment one by one, for example. More total # of comments, which is tracked, and it also keeps the page in the LH feed so folks can see it and wonder what all the hubbub is on that post,... generating more views, perhaps more read+rates+comments... see? like I'm sort of doing now ;)
I also had someone ask me via PM to reconsider my not rating his piece. It was even weirder, cause I had rated him at the time I'd commented. If people are really feeling the need to track down who rated and who didn't- Go to their activity tab and click on ratings. It's right there whether or not they rated.
But a PM about why you hadn't rated or commented with an admonishment "knowing better"? Who the hell do they think they are?
I can't believe it. Flat out cannot believe it.
For all those who are not nearly as conscious as we think we are... H-Julie just pointed something important out to us. Go to the new 'activity' tab on your homepage. Click in to 'comments'. Now look to the right - see where it ways 'ratings'??? Click it. WELL NOW, don't I feel silly?
That's how someone with too much time and not much confidence in their work can figure out who has raaaaaated them and who hasn't! Voila. Amazing. I'm a little flabbergasted OS would give us this evil little tool.... hmmm, who can I stalk...don't rush me. I'm thinking.
The comedy of manners was frosting on the cake.
Someone has actually been PMing people and asking why they didn't get rated? Hooboy!! Perhaps we have way too much free time and some ego issues the size of a medium Balkan state?
Oh yeah - I rated you 3 times. I'll be back later to rate you again (and again and again...) Promise.
Trust things are going well.
I note sometimes that the comments on my pieces don't match the numbers of ratings, but I guess I just figure either people forgot or there was a glitch...or that maybe my piece didn't appeal to them.
but...
I try not to drive myself crazy since that's what others (mostly my students) are for. ...and I must admit, pm'ing someone to twist their arm into a rate does seem a bit out there. We're here for growth, expression and stretching our talents...with the bonus of meeting others who are here for the same reason, no? I think this was a very timely post, Abby! thanks for the heavy lifting! geez indeed! rRRRR!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
(Just kidding if you're reading this)
All I know is you have to rate before you comment if you want it to stick. I rate first thing so I don't forget and only occasionally do I ever go back and change that fact (it has to be pretty awful, probably politically ugly, for me not to rate).
Fun ranting!
GRIF, my friend... that just hit me square on the funny bone. Still laughing......::chucklechucklecoughghgh:: AHHEMM! (get a grip girl). You are a funny man.
Spark honey - you can't believe what a hard time I had locating this box again just so I can say, you're safe for now (how 'bout me?) I'd hate to see Grif get hold of me in public. ahahhahahhhhoooooohhhooshees... can't stop laughing. Haaaaahhh. It's late. Maybe I'm a little slap happy. TTYL
@ karin - you are keeping me rolling here. I needed a good laugh. Delightful commentary of your own experience with the rate button --- which as someone just said (sort of) needs to be spoon fed. Us? not so much but the info on the ability to track ratings (yours and everyone elses) is s-i-c-k, hoooboy...now I'm off again..... ::hiccup:: too much jocularity ~ (Colonel Potter, MASH 4077th)
Obviously not or we'd have some modern Internet functionality like threaded comments, comment rating and better social network integration and a smartphone version. Don't be silly.
But seriously someone PMed you about rating? Wow. That's pretty pathetic.
I guess my response to the insensitive asshat would have been:
"Are you so damn shallow that you sit and WATCH WHETHER PEOPLE RATE YOUR POSTS OR NOT? Go outside. Listen to a birdie. Smell a flower. In other words: Get a Frickin' LIFE!"
I comment when I feel like commenting. I rate when I think a post deserves to be rated. And I frankly don't give a flying fuck if anyone else doesn't like the way I do it. My opinion - my choice.
Agree completely with the whole "Click-to-comment-jump-to-top" complaint. It is an easy fix for the tech-heads. And it is annoying as all get-out to plan on leaving a comment and getting thrown to the top of the post. Almost makes wanna say, "fuck it, I'm not commenting now."
Except I usually comment because I have something to say. ;-D
Ratings and comments (and views) don't have to be the same and anyway anyone with that much time and personal angst to actually PM about a rating would probably fast make the shortlist of skipped writers forevermore for me.
You've written a fun and timely rant. msp
@MaddieP - I really enjoy meeting and making new friends here, thanks for stopping in. I do the same thing - rate first, then read -- and on a really whacky day, may actually come back later to read! may not even comment! How nuts is that? I must be a really wild and crazy girl.
I almost feel like outing him but ehhh, it's not in my nature. If he's seen this, he knows. If he hasn't, maybe he'll PM Grif next! how funny would that be? (don't get me started again).
Good night all! and TINK: don't think I didn't notice your very conspicuous absence tonight. (missed ya buddy)
Guess I'm naive, I thought this is all about more than ratings.
I mean I was hoping...
I have to admit I have rate issues. I often have to rate to see if I am removing a rating in order to determine if I have already rated.
PLUS... the rate button is sticky! Is it only me or does it sometime act as if you just aren't rubbing it quite right?!
Also, I thought I had a kooky computer - thanks for sharing the glitch misery ;D
Rated!!
So I don't feel bad for rating most of what I read. I do rate first, but only for the reason that I will move on and forget to give kudos for people's hard work.
Plus, the comment feature is impossible to find these days. It's a mess.
If I really don't like it, then I can unrate.
Rated!
I'm only sure I got it right if I rate only. All internet sites are designed to make humans keep clicking stuff endlessly. I think I rated. Maybe.
Ger! -what the hell time is it where you are tonight (this morning?) thanks for the thought.
Desert_Rat - amen and pleased to make an acquaintance.
XZuma - I could swear that last line read 'and if I really don't like it, I can urinate' ... I'll second that thought.
L'huere, you got me going again with this line "All internet sites are designed to make humans keep clicking stuff endlessly" -- like lab rats. What a thought... geez.
To all who are interested (Gwool this would be you), Snarky, Scarlett, and a couple of others have admitted getting these PMs also... so I'm going to keep quiet on the public front and we are all going to soldier on politely after having had a good laugh about it. (or was that just me?) ahhhhaaahahahhahahahahhooooohoo ... hee...heeeehe. ahh. That was fun.
i'm still not convinced the jump is anything but a glitch. there's a glitch in the logon process that wasn't there before the recent s/w fuckup.
i read, then scroll back up, rate, then click to post a comment and -- yes, have to scroll back to the comment box to click on "post this comment." it's a pain but i got used to the rate/comment sequence when the ratings weren't showing up (cache problem it may be, but it's just easier to do it first than worry about it).
i never comment without rating. that's just me. i think most people do it, though, that way. call me crazy, but otherwise i'd feel like i was being snotty. if i don't want to rate something, it's crystal clear i wouldn't comment on it either. but that's probably because i don't think i've ever left a nasty comment on someone's blog. it's just not my style. i may think the nasty comment while i'm not rating and clicking onward to something worth commenting on. babble babble, she says. xoxo good rant, GA!
Great post and great comments here. I too can't believe that someone would PM you about a rate.
Grif - you old party pooper, read backwards to see how much you entertained me I tonight -- and you weren't even here! Now THAT'S a good date. Sleep tight!
The following has all been verified by extensive testing....
You can Rate without Commenting. Period. Anytime.
You can Comment without Rating. Period. Anytime.
It makes no difference in which order you Comment or Rate, or whether you do it in the same session. Period.
You can Comment as many times as you want, but you can only Rate once per post. Clicking the Rate button a second time Unrates, a third time Rates, a fourth time Unrates. It's called a toggle selection. If you Rate something and see the number jump up by several, it simply means others Rated the post while you were dawdling. If you are unsure if you Rated something, just click the Rate button... if the count goes up, you hadn't rated it. If the count goes down, you already had. Click it again to change it.
The Like button is not for you. It is for Facebook people to say they like a post without having to log into OS. The count is nice to look at, but it doesn't affect your stats. Just sayin'
Oh, and that Rate that doesn't seem to stick? It's an illusion, caused by latency in the system. What that means is that if you rate something, leave, then come right back, it looks like your Rate didn't stick. In truth, it just take a few moments to register in the system.
The more you know, the more you know.
I do still rate at jump bc most posts would get a rate from me if only for sincere effort and I can always go back and undo the rating before I click PostThisComment. If I err, I err in encouraging writers; it's no sin. :)
However I like comments but really don't think about ratings. I feel like a big loser on this site so at the moment I have sub sea level expectations. Rate/don't rate...does it really matter? You tell me. I post a piece and have a good cry and (kidding) and bake a cake (kidding). And of course I HAVE NO FREAKING IDEA HOW THEY CHOSE AND EDITOR'S PICK. Is there sex involved? Or is it a lottery system. Can't be a rational decision based on content, can it?
So many questions.... like I said I write, cry and bake. Hey sounds like a book/movie title.
@ Tichaona - I hope I spelled that right. The opt out for receiving PM alerts is hit 'reply to all', and enter your message - like 'please take me off your list you hustlers!' - or maybe that would be Tink's message, but you get the gist. Thanks for stopping.
@ Gail Marie - whatever the secret is, no one has seen fit to share it with me, but I like the Write, Cry, Bake thing...stylish.
But WTF? Berating someone because he/she hasn't rated a post? Pfffft. That's just ... insecurity speaking, or whinging, or something. I read and sometimes I comment, whereupon usually I rate, but I don't think it's mandatory.
I think it's always dangerous to assume that software is smarter than we are, Gabby. :-) My suspicion is that this "jumping around" behavior is something the OS developers don't see as a problem or do see it as a problem but not of high priority. But it is annoying, what I'd call a bug.
Not that you need yet another view on how people use OS, but since I'm here... I comment on some posts without rating them, rate some posts without commenting on them, read some posts all the way through without doing either. I think of rating as a signal to other readers of OS, and my rating (as it appears on the activity feed) says, "I read this post and I think it's worthwhile for others to read it as well." I think of commenting as feedback to the author, with other OS readers being only a secondary target: "I have something to say about this post." These reactions aren't always independent, but sometimes they are.
So I'll rate this post along with my comment; I recently commented on a cover post but didn't rate it, because despite my thinking it was worth a response I didn't want to raise the profile of its perspective on a particular issue; I sometimes rate posts because I think they are valuable, but I have nothing to add.
I am using Firefox, and if I comment first, then rate, the rate will not stick when I leave the page. It's not a timing thing, it has nothing to do with time. I just tested it, and waiting five minutes did not make a difference.
It's good of you to point out that ratings are smoke signals to other readers, sending the message - 'I liked this, try it'. Unfortunately, commenting as commentary on the work has gone by the wayside as the social side of the site has grown exponentially. The very people who say they want 'useful feedback from other serious writers' are the first to kick off when they receive what they asked for. The commenter gets a good shellacking and it's off to the races.
I've gotten lazy in that it's just easier to rate and give a boost to someone who's made the effort, than it is to stop and explain why I didn't think it was worthy of a rating. ehhh.
The JUMP was here when I first stepped through the open door about 18 mos ago, but it was 'fixed' shortly thereafter. when Emily came on board and some formatting changes were made, the JUMP reappeared. Complaints haven't generated change or explanation -- in spite of the fact that it seems to irritate most everyone, making the process of R-R-C unfriendly, cumbersome, and time consuming. What intelligent site managers want that unless there's a method to the madness?
A Rating System has value to the editor's staff - I can't completely discount the possibility the JUMP is intentional but leave the door open to the thought that the OS programming staff just aren't paying attention. It's a pretty big glitch, as glitches go. It affects all of the people, all of the time.
I love our little chats Rob. You can tell Mrs. SA you have a groupie that adores you. *mwwwahh*
@ Stellaa - monitoring ratings in the way they are currently available to us is an entirely new feature - one that many folks weren't fully aware of. It hasn't always been this way and the loss of a certain amount of anonymity is harmful to the voting process - the ballot should remain private to encourage the attitude Rob has described, and to discourage back lash. IMO.
I recently came across another writing site, Authonomy, which appears to be an online slush pile hosted by Harper Collins, with contributors submitting novels, critiquing the submissions of others, and collectively (via ratings) evaluating the promise of specific submissions. Some comments there seem to be very similar to comments here: it's not the quality of the piece that drives the ratings, but the networking and logrolling skills of the authors. It's kind of too bad, but I think it's inevitable on a site that supports any degree of socialization.
I rate, I read, I comment...in that order. It seems to work. And, like Matt, if I feel I've forgotten to rate, I'll click again to make sure.
However, after reading this and all the comments, I am significantly paranoid. Is someone watching me as I click? I'm gonna put on my shades now...scuse me..