I had a dialogue, so to speak, with a hothead on OS about why people vote or don't.
She or he had enough of the lies and manipulations of politicians so they weren't going to feel forced to vote. They'd had enough of everybody telling them what to do, and this was how they were going to teach "them."
I commented that the blogger didn't understand democracy--the sort of thing you'd teach in a tenth grade civics class, but they weren't listening to any of it, not a word. The system is obviously corrupt and only a fool keeps falling for it. The fury was unmistakable.
I became the "authority" telling them what to do, a set-up for their projections--a dupe for democracy--a challenger of their assumptions. It wasn't unlike conversations with other hotheads I've had over the last four or five years, thanks to the wonders of blogging, which allows them to speak, and for the rest of us to figure out what's going on in their brains. It ain't the mainstream media folks, that's the point.
Millions no doubt feel the same way, which explains a lot. Politics is an extension of their needs, they have no use for it, it's a dirty business, everybody who is anybody knows that. They're on a higher level. Once the disillusionment has set in there is nothing to discuss, no compromise, no objectivity, no understanding--only remorseless anger.
The history of democracy in most (not all) advanced nations shows a lessening of belief in the merits of our form of government as time goes by. The electorate becomes enfeebled by choice and obfuscation. The growth of a ruling class is perpetuated with less and less reliance on the consensus.
They have only their followers to convince, the needs of the greatest number and in our case the middle class becomes less and less a matter of concern. Forget about those who haven't made it onto the ladder. You can lie to them and make up anything you want. It doesn't matter. Even our age of instant communication hasn't changed that.
I think that's what we are seeing. It leaves the US more dependant than ever on the growing forces of ideology and militancy. A genuine reformer can come along and the reaction to them is overwhelming, especially if he has been successful in bringing about reform, and threatening to lead in a new direction. The enemy is change itself.
If the right is held in check, it is usually only because they overstep their bounds, as Bush did, or there is a major crisis and moderates come out of the closet for no other reason than to try someone else. That's how Obama got elected the first time. The right didn't think he had a dog's chance in hell, so looked the other way.
I don't think that's what's going to happen this time. The cultural backlash of a threatened established segment far outweighs any political considerations about any candidate or policy. Romney could be a tin robot who speaks out his ass and they wouldn't care. Bush was easily the most inarticulate president in my lifetime and he was re-elected. Fear and ignorance far outweigh a rational approach. Liberals can talk themselves bluer than blue but it doesn't matter.
We saw it when Bush was re-elected after taking the nation to war under false pretenses. We saw it when Clinton was almost impeached for reasons that had nothing to do with his presidency. We saw it when Kerry and Gore weren't good enough, and now I'm afraid we're going to see it destroy a president who managed to enact the most significant piece of social legislation since "The Great Society" regardless of the risks to his staying in office.
If by some other fluke, Obama is re-elected, on the local level the results are going to be disastrous and his ability to govern will be even further stymied, and only the Washington "elite" will know the difference. The cynics of democracy will get their way once again. The angry will win by default and the rest of us will be stuck until the next crises.
I used to think of moderates as a hopeless mob of followers, but now I see them as the bulwark of democracy, keeping the fanatics at bay. Most of the hotheads, sad to say, are from my generation who codified the attitude of withdrawal. As Brokaw said, "they were last seen in their VW bus with the 'make love, not war" bumper sticker and were never seen again."
Many of them and their "intellectual" heirs in this county and out are resolutely fixated in 1968, adolescents until the end. I now believe if the center does not hold, i.e. those who still believe in democracy, the basis for insurrection will grow from either the gun tottin' right or the naive left. The fringes will win.
I won't lapse into the usual declaration of the apocalypse. It's a clear indicator of the fanatic of any stripe. Always the appeal to fear and a past that never was, or some imaginary scheme like libertarianism.
I'll live with another retrograde president because you refuse to vote for the candidate most likely to represent your best interests. I understand your need for the perfect candidate in a perfect world. You have gotten tired of the demands of democracy to be won generation after generation. You've been spoiled and don't know it. I've gotten used to it. The hotheads won't give us any other choice.
It's going to be hard watching Romney smirk at us for the next four years, very hard.


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I'll vote.
And when I figure out my best interests. I'll let you know.
Status quo not acceptable. Miracles not available. Prayers not answered. Kids out of work. Grand kids have health issues. Our investments not keeping up with inflation. Insurance bills keep climbing. Assets declining.
I'll vote.
Signed,
Hopelessly confused.
"policies offered by Obama were created with no obstruction by the political opposition..."
I think this is merely a taunt. I can't imagine demonstrating ones ignorance more clearly in public. Please, go away.
Read:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/rulings/promise-broken/?page=4
And this does not cover international policies for illegal assassination and idiotic military adventures.
and the lefties who are mad at him like the person you were arguing with? they should vote for the democrat but they won't. and in that case i hope they DON'T vote. anyone stupid enough to vote for a third party in an election like this one should do us a favor and stay home.
btw, i watched that piece that brokow did on the boomers. did you? is that where a couple of those italic quotes came from? the older tom brokaw gets, the more it's obvious he's a very conservative guy with a big chip on his shoulder who *loves* the military. the sarcasm and scorn he heaps on us boomers isn't even thinly veiled anymore. pffft on him. :)
the quote is from brokaw's book. i think he's right. i've never seen a better explanation of what's gone on since the 60's. my generation turned it's nose up on democracy and the result has been obvious.
Thanks. It's good to know somebody feels similar.
Look at the phrases the radical right uses in casual conversation -- "politics as usual," "both sides equally bad," "necessary evil" etc...etc...etc... These all go hand in hand with a GOP that makes refusal to compromise an affirmative virtue and a conservative media that says it is OK to hate.
All the sniping and the gridlock and the dysfunction are designed to get people disgusted with politics itself and either check out or cry out for some alternative. And what alternative is there? Dictatorship of course, whether miltitary, theocratic or plutocratic. That's always been the fatal flaw of democracy. People demand to be governed, as Walter Lippmann said long ago, and will choose a strong but unfree government in which they are not represented over a free but feeble one in which they are every time. No wonder Republicans have tried so hard to make us ungovernable.
Only when the German people got fed up with the gridlock and endless, pointless, unproductive bickering of their own parliament were they willing to seriously consider chucking their democracy in favor of the Nazi alternative, even if it was by barely 40%. But the Nazis had their own way of suppressing the vote of the opposition -- they put them in jail, in camps or in the ground.
But I am with femme forte here. Where I part ways with your analysis is in thinking the other side has already won. I am not willing to go there yet. Republicans are running a stealth campaign to hide their radical nature. But I sense the process of the great unmasking is already underway. What Americans do once the curtain is pulled back remains to be seen, but I am not yet willing to give up hope that Republicans will succeed by appealing to the darker angels of our nature.
I hope you are right and I am wrong, but a race that is now considered tied when one candidate is a genius and the other a mediocre front man for the one per cent sorely tests my comprehension, and I don't want to be sitting there on election night wondering what went wrong.
A poll I heard about says 60 per cent of voters on both sides think the other side is going to win. I'm one of them. I would rather see Obama preside over a caretaker government than know my interests and that of the country in the long run are of no concern.
I don't think the Republicans have concealed anything. Can you imagine a Democratic Majority Leader saying the purpose of the Congress is to prevent the re-election of the President? That's class warfare in my book.
First of all, Clinton was impeached. Just not convicted, unfortunately. Is age catching up with you, old boy?
Secondly, the Constitution doesn't require that the "high crimes and misdemeanors" underlying impeachment be related to the presidency itself. He could be impeached, for example, if he choked to death his young girlfriend without using his hands.
All the focus on Clinton these days makes it clearer than ever that we have a hapless incompetent in the White House. Not a genius, BS. You set the bar way too low for genius, and the reason isn't hard to guess.
The Not Conservative Americans need to take over the D party the same way the ideologues and shills took over the GOP. That won't be accomplished by voting for the Greens, or by not voting.
I have no problem with the left arguing for the impossible, and their issues are valid--to a point--but save the sermon for the other lefties, because your total ineffectiveness is no better than anyone's, and is worse because it leads to exactly nothing--no hope of change.
Arthur,
The hapless incompetents are the Republicans that created this mess. That's Republican debt, ever-growing under Republican presidents since Reagan. That's Republican credit bubbles, Republican wage destruction, Republican offshoring and Republican de-regulation and refusal to enforce regulations. This is a Republican depression.
If you were politically competent, you'd know that...at least know it well enough to avoid looking like a clueless clucker and a penis detective.