Editor’s Pick
OCTOBER 22, 2009 10:30AM
Famous Fights that Never Happened - Cash vs. Sinatra
The Rules:
1. Two celebrities face-off in an imaginary fight.
2. Both are in their prime.
3. No weapons can be used.
Let's start the match, shall we?
In this corner, standing at 5'8, is Frank Sinatra.
Points in Sinatra's Favor:
- Sinatra was expelled from high school at 15 for rowdiness.
- His father, Martin, was an illiterate former prizefighter and fireman.
- Frank's dying words were "I'm losing" implying that even death was as a fight to him.
- Sinatra has a highly unpredictable temper. According to one source:
"Though his temper was excessive, Sinatra was known for going from extremely angry to somewhat amused in a matter of seconds. In one incident he dumped hot coffee on a casino manager named Carl Cohen, who had somehow gotten on the singer's wrong side. Cohen responded by punching Sinatra in the face, knocking out his front teeth. Sinatra than concluded, as he later told a friend, "never fight a Jew in the desert."
"For all of his life Sinatra had a very unpredictable temper, often screaming at reporters and getting in fights. In one particularly violent tantrum he ripped a phone out of the wall of his hotel room, broke the windows, and then set it on fire."
- Sinatra had endurance:
"Dean and Sammy, they couldn't hang," says Hank Cattaneo, Sinatra's concert production manager for the past 20 years. "They weren't in shape for it. After a half-hour, Dean would say, 'I gotta go to bed,' and then Sammy would say, 'Please, let me go too.' But the old man loved to hang, loved to talk and tell stories."
- Sinatra's favorite passion was prizefighting and was a "close friend" of Tami Mauriello, a heavyweight contender in 1943.
- A series of recent brawling incidents had been widely covered in the media on the night in 1957 when Sinatra and some of his Rat Pack pals dropped in on the act of insult comedian Don Rickles at a Hollywood club. Rickles, who spared no one during his act, immediately ad libbed: "Here's Frank Sinatra. Make yourself at home, Frank. Hit somebody." After an awed silence, broken only by a few titters on the floor, Sinatra laughed with gusto and the tension was broken.
- The Mob Connection - if Sinatra didn't win the fight, Cash would be swimming with the fishes. You don't disrespect Sinatra by kicking his ass.
- He's a crooner and crooners aren't natural fighters.
- He's dead, making fights a challenge, overall.
In this corner, standing at 6'2 is Johnny Cash:
Points working in Cash's Favor:
- Cash may be a little cold-blooded with lyrics like:
"I shot a man in Reno, just to watch him die."
- Johnny had hard times in his blood: "Johnny Cash was born in rural, south-central Arkansas, on February 26, 1932." Ouch. That's got to hurt.
- Cash was of Scottish descent and Scots can be badasses occasionally.
- Cash was Southern and Southern people like to kick ass.
- Cash was high and high people are unpredictable with drug-induced superhuman strength:
"As his career was taking off in the early 1960s, Cash started drinking heavily and became addicted to amphetamines and barbiturates. For a brief time, he shared an apartment in Nashville with Waylon Jennings, who was heavily addicted to amphetamines. Cash used the uppers to stay awake during tours. Friends joked about his and erratic behavior, many ignoring the warning signs of his worsening drug addiction. In a behind-the-scenes look at The Johnny Cash Show, Cash claims to have "tried every drug there was to try."
- Cash often said fuck you to the man:
"In June 1965, his truck caught fire due to an overheated wheel bearing, triggering a forest fire that burned several hundred acres in Los Padres National Forest in California. When the judge asked Cash why he did it, Cash said, "I didn't do it, my truck did, and it's dead, so you can't question it." The fire destroyed 508 acres, burning the foliage off three mountains and killing 49 of the refuge's 53 endangered condors. Cash was unrepentant: "I don't care about your damn yellow buzzards."
- During a live performance of Kris Kristofferson's "Sunday Mornin' Comin' Down", Cash refused to change the lyrics to suit network executives, singing the song with its references to marijuana intact: "On a Sunday morning sidewalk / I'm wishin', Lord, that I was stoned."
- He's a Pisces and Pisces can be real wusses.
- He too is dead, which makes fights more of a challenge.
- He posed like he did time in the slammer but he didn't really.
"Although Cash carefully cultivated a romantic outlaw image, he never served a prison sentence. Despite landing in jail seven times for misdemeanors, each stay lasted only a single night."And the winner is?
FRANK SINATRA!
We believe from extensive research that whilst Cash was bigger and a badass in his own right, Sinatra is ruthless and soulless with brawling in his blood. We also believe that even though no weapons are to be used, Frank would disregard this rule and slice Cash before he knew what hit him.
Tune in next week when our Celebrity Fist Fight includes:
Steve Perry and Kate Bush
Thanks to Ms. Ruby Lawrence for her contributions.
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Nick Leshi
JustJuli
Monsieur Chariot
Jocelyn Testes-Harder
Will Azeperak
Man Talk Now
Salon.com
Comments
My money is also on Kate for next week. Despite his barely measurable testosterone count, a couple of Kate's whirling Kabuki kicks and the battle's over in 5 octaves.
Next week I put all my money on Kate because Steve has been using the same health excuse for over 10 years.
R
How about a Marilyn Monroe & Anna Nicole Smith match up?
;-)
Funny you should bring up Anna Nicole, Spotted. I'm having her face off with Dolly Parton after the Perry/Bush fight - now THAT one is a tough call. My money would be on Anna, for sheer mental instablility and the superhuman strength that brings. She's got "nuthouse" crazy which is as strong as Dracula's. The "nothing to lose" crazy. VERY strong.
Dolly on the other hand is one tough ass chick underneath all the wigs and breasts.
Cash would rip him to shreds!
I won't pass judgement on the next episode, although any singer with the name Bush has got to be good at ducking shoes.
(this was fun!)
I think Frank would win, too. If it was a fair fight, Cash hands down, as everyone noted. But, as you laid out, nothing is fair with Frank in the room, you needed permission to laugh. He wins...
My favorite line,
"Johnny had hard times in his blood: "Johnny Cash was born in rural, south-central Arkansas, on February 26, 1932." Ouch. That's got to hurt."
Me? I would like to see Hillary and Sarah. I almost choked when she used Hillary's success in her first speech to all of America for pushing the glass ceiling. I bet Hillary would like to punch her out (and she plays dirty too)!
I liked the idea that Frank's "friends" could even the score by literally cutting down Cash's size to equal Frank's 5'8.
Persephone, what a breath of fresh air. We must catch up. I'm sure you have tons to talk about.
Buffy, you have his wife's vintage dress? Man oh man, that's pretty damn cool!
More to say but visiting NYC and haven't left apartment all day!
Great post, Beth! Cool and creative
As for Kate and Steve Perry? C'mon whose going to choose Perry? Now Kate vs. Bjork, there's a fight for the AGES. Or Kate vs.Geddy Lee. Or Geddy Lee vs. Nancy Wilson. Or Geddy Lee vs. MADONNA....O.K obviously I'm way too into this, and Canadian.
And BTW Scots are ALWAYS badasses. (And keep up with the erratic bolding. I love that.)
I like it, but I think Cash would've whupped some ass
-Nikki-
Scots are inveter
Scots are inveter
Scots are inveter
Anyway, this is among your funniest stuff, and I'm having a lot of fun with this thought experiment!
The comments are as great as the read -- great post as usual Beth.
People largely agree with your results. Cash would win a fair fight, but it won't be a fair fight. I never got Sinatra. Tony Bennet sang better. Sammy Davis was the most talented Rat Packer, Dean Martin was the coolest. The one thing I like Sinatra for is his screen presence. He was a good actor. But really a jerk.
Mother 'effin Cash FTW!
Sinatra was a punk.
You asked for feedback. I liked the concept and the format (points for and against, bullet points). And the photos. All contributed to making it fun and easy to read. Very zippy, Zippy.
Personally I found it hard to get worked up about the two individuals paired, but I'm not American and Cash/Sinatra don't have the same iconic resonance for me. Obviously no one else had the same problem as other posters were very clear in their reflexive responses.
Probably good to go with people who provoke a strong love 'em or hate 'em response in readers- I liked the Kate Bush/Bjork and Hillary/Sarah ideas. Also how about some figures from the past and their modern counterparts- George Clooney/Cary Grant, Kennedy/Obama, or an older younger pair- Madonna/Lady Gaga? Or something really random like Dick Cheney and Miley Cyrus.
Fight & mean don't matter when someone is that much bigger than you.
Kate Bush is gorgeous. She gives me goose-pimples.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vl9OKddQBRg
I love it!
I love them both: Franks' "Summer Wind" ohhh
Cash's last song "Hurt" the cover from Nine Inch Nails, blew me the fuck away.
I love the mug shots. haaa OOhh bad boys.
Very creative and enertaining. Yippee. I'm going to read it again.
For the next round up: Kate Bush and Steve Perry?
I agree with a couple of people that said Marylin Monroe and Anna Nicole Smith. Just a thought.
Thanks for a most enjoyable read.
Sinatra's line, "Never fight a Jew in the desert." Timeless; uncanny.
Your line, "Sinatra [was] ruthless and soulless with brawling in his blood," (my emphasis) is so true, it brought me over to your side after thinking on my own that Cash would win this fight.
" The room cracked with the clack of billiard balls. There were about a dozen spectators in the room, most of them young men who were watching Leo Durocher shoot against two other aspiring hustlers who were not very good. This private drinking club has among its membership many actors, directors, writers, models, nearly all of them a good deal younger than Sinatra or Durocher and much more casual in the way they dress for the evening. Many of the young women, their long hair flowing loosely below their shoulders, wore tight, fannyfitting Jax pants and very expensive sweaters; and a few of the young men wore blue or green velour shirts with high collars, and narrow tight pants and Italian loafers.
It was obvious from the way Sinatra looked at these people in the poolroom that they were not his style, but he leaned back against a high stool that was against the wall, holding his drink in his right hand, and said nothing, just watched Durocher slam the billiard balls back and forth. The younger men in the room, accustomed to seeing Sinatra at this club, treated him without deference, although they said nothing offensive. They were a very cool young group, very California-cool and causal, and one of the coolest seemed to be a little guy, very quick of movement, who had a sharp profile, pale blue eyes, light brown hair and squared eyeglasses. He wore a pair of brown corduroy slacks, a green shaggy-dog Shetland sweater, a tan suede jacket, and Game Warden boots, for which he had recently paid $60.
Frank Sinatra, leaning against the stool, sniffing a bit from his cold, could not take his eyes off the Game Warden boots. Once, after gazing at them for a few moments, he turned away; but now he was focused on them again. The owner of the boots, who was just standing in them watching the pool game, was named Harlan Ellison, a writer who had just completed work on a screenplay, "The Oscar."
Finally, Sinatra could not contain himself.
"Hey," he yelled in his slightly harsh voice that still had a soft, sharp edge. "Those Italian boots?"
"No." Ellison said.
"Spanish?"
"No."
"Are they English boots?"
"Look, I dunno, man," Ellison shot back, frowning at Sinatra, then turning away again.
Now the poolroom was suddenly silent. Leo Durocher, who had been poised behind his cue stick and was bent low, just froze in that position for a second. Nobody moved. Then Sinatra moved away from the stool and walked with that slow, arrogant swagger of his toward Ellison, the hard tap of Sinatra's shoes the only sound in the room. Then, looking down at Ellison with a slightly raised eyebrow and a tricky little smile, Sinatra asked: "You expecting a storm?"
Harlan Ellison moved a step to the side. "Look, is there any reason why you're talking to me?"
"I don't like the way you're dressed," Sinatra said.
"Hate to shake you up," Ellison said, "but I dressed to suit myself."
Now there was some rumbling in the room, and somebody said "Com'on, Harlan, let's get out of here," and Leo Durocher made his pool shot and said, "Yeah, com'on."
But Ellison stood his ground.
Sinatra said, "What do you do?"
"I'm a plumber," Ellison said.
"No, he's not," another young man quickly yelled from across the table, "He wrote 'The Oscar.'"
"Oh, yeah," Sinatra said, "well I've seen it, and it's a piece of crap."
"That's strange," Ellison said, "because they haven't even released it yet."
"Well, I've seen it," Sinatra repeated, "and it's a piece of crap."
...The whole scene was becoming ridiculous, and it seemed that Sinatra was only half-serious, perhaps just reacting out of sheer boredom or inner despair; at any rate, after a few more exchanges, Harlan Ellison left the room. By this time, the word had gotten out to those on the dance floor about the Sinatra-Ellison exchange, and somebody went to look for the manager of the club. But somebody else said that the manager had already heard about it -- and had quickly gone out of the door, hopped in his car and drove home. So the assistant manager went into the poolroom.
"I don't want anybody in here without coats and ties," Sinatra snapped.
The assistant manager nodded, and walked back to his office."
I'd say Sinatra was a punk. You can take the kid out of Jersey.... But he was right about one thing: "The Oscar" WAS a piece of crap.
However, I figured that next weeks fight would be between Kate Bush and Tori Amos. Either way, she can kick both of their asses at the same time. Her first record was called 'The Kick Inside'... think about it.
"•Cash was Southern and Southern people like to kick ass. "
Take it from somebody who's lived most of his adult life in North Carolina and Kentucky, white Southerners like Johnny Cash talk about kicking ass a lot, but don't kick much. Quick! Think of a great, white boxer from the South. I can't think of any.
On another topic. My comment on your Heathlike article was way off base and I got righteously slammed by my wife when I explained the whole thing. Sorry about that.
Jeremiah, thanks for that excerpt. I read that Talese book myself and remember that story!
Princess Fiona, it's lovely to hear from you. I want a life update at some point when you get a moment. I miss your presence. And thank you for being such a detailed review of the piece. I've been toying around with more marketable ideas that I could move quickly as a book and I thought there's some built-in appeal to something like that. You know, a kitschy, fun and quick book.
Loads more to say but just got home.
Also, it sounds great, don't it: My money is on Cash.
You should DEFINITELY do a book. I will PM you with some thoughts on this and personal news.
Cyndi Lauper vs. Johnny Depp -that's the smackdown I want to see.