Editor’s Pick
NOVEMBER 18, 2009 12:52PM
The Dokken Factor and Other Dating Deal Breakers
First dates are up there with anal fissures in the pleasure department but they must be endured. How else can you get to the sex?
Unfortunately, one often encounters deal breakers on those first dates, making any future seem unlikely.
Take my date last weekend...please. Actually, he was a nice enough guy. Good-looking, above average intelligence. We went for brunch at a local joint at the Jersey shore, sitting in the Fall sunlight, sipping mimosas. Happy so far!
Small talk ensued, which generally sets my teeth on edge. I hate small talk. Weather, current events, "What do you do for a living?" "Your mother, when she's available." That kind of thing. Deadly. But I know, I know, it must be done.
"So what kind of music do you like, Peter?" I halfheartedly asked.
"Heavy metal for the most part...like Dokken."
"Dokken? What do you mean Dokken?
"It's an 80's metal band."
"Oh, I'm aware. They have lots of hair. I just never...forget it. So who else do you like?"
"What? You never what?"
"I never heard anyone mention Dokken as one of their favorite bands before. That's all. Like, it was the first band you'd mention."
"Well, who would you mention?"
"Any band other than Dokken?" I responded with a nervous laugh.
We quickly changed subjects but somehow Dokken loomed over us the rest of the brunch. They might as well have been at the table, guzzling my mimosa and giving me lap dances.
Peter and I never had a second date. Which is fine. But it got me thinking about the Dokken Factor - or any other element that makes you say, "Sorry cowboy, this is just not going to work."
Listen, I don't think everyone should think just like me. I mean, musically, I have some nerve judging anyone. I like heavy pop, for instance. The poppier, the better. I've stopped parties dead in their tracks from putting on a little Barry Manilow to add some "spice" to the evening. Phil Collins fills me with a deep sense of glee. I think The Bee Gees are one of most misconstrued bands of all time.
I also like classic rock. But I can't help that. I'm from Jersey. I was born with Boston in my blood, Van Halen in my veins and Genesis in my genes.
And it's fine to have differences in taste. It adds a certain fun, playful tension. But differences as great as Dokken? That may just be an unbridgeable gap.
My ex-boyfriend is a big movie buff. And when I say big, there are few movies that man hasn't seen. We can talk for hours about performances, directors, a certain shot or scene that has stuck with us forever. When he started dating again, he went out with some gal who over dinner said that she didn't like black and white movies. They gave her the "creeps." I had to break it to my ex that they stood no future whatsoever. He agreed. The Dokken Factor, clearly at play.
More intimately, a female friend of mine had been dating a man for 6 months when she confessed that while their sex life was going well enough, he never went down on her. He told her the first time they had sex that it just "wasn't his thing." (And no, it wasn't a hygiene issue. I asked.) I told her that she may need to break up with him. She sadly agreed.
She did talk with him about it before ending it. He reiterated that he just didn't like going down on women - not just with her, any woman. Cunnilingus done well may be one of the most deeply sensual and wonderful sensations a woman experiences sexually (in my humble opinion.) To do without, because it's not his "thing"? Au revoir, pussy hater.
I know - we all have our sexual preferences. But not as big as this Dokken Factor. It should be a primal drive to want to go down on a woman. Instinctual, I argue. If I was a straight man, I'd skip the breasts and run, not walk, to eat at the Y. And if a man doesn't like to do it, then he's either sexually self-centered or lazy (which means lame sex) or he secretly prefers other sexual organs in place of the vagina, if you get my drift.
Sometimes, deal breakers turn out to be deal makers. Surprisingly, I dated a Christian guy and we managed quite well for some time. As long as he wasn't proselytizing, I had no problem. It's strange that I would fear a problem, truthfully. I'm a spiritual person. Not in the Christian sense (though Catholic blood still courses through these veins, whether I want it to or not) but what did I think he would do? Burn me at the stake? Beat me with a Bible?
He cursed occasionally, drank beers and had the most devastatingly beautiful lips that he would place oh so strategically all over me. When he kissed me (which was heavenly) "Son of a Preacher Man" would play in my mind. I imagined that I was defiling him, sullying his Christian goodness, which was ultimately a real turn-on, for both of us.
One man I dated cowered in quite a dangerous situation we encountered. A homeless man approached us on the street one night, when I lived in Philly, with a pipe in his hand. I had to scare the guy off by using my special "dealing with crazy people" technique. When I was done, my date stood far off to the side, applauding. Applaud this, Dokken Factor.
Sadly, I don't always heed deal breakers. I had a wonderful date many years ago in Brooklyn - a romantic movie, a lovely dinner, great conversation, laughs. When we walked home, we came to his place first. It was there he said goodbye to me, leaving me to walk about 10 blocks home at 1 am in a semi-sketchy neighborhood. I remember trying to shrug it off, but tears kept filling up my eyes on my solo journey home. Yes, I could have asked him - but I didn't. He could have offered, too. I stayed with him for several difficult years.
Clothing, while not a deal breaker, can certainly be deal altering. A man constantly donning a baseball cap can dampen my spirits a bit. Wearing sneakers all the time is a turn-off as well. T-shirts with slogans plastered on them...ick. He doesn't have to be a fashion plate but show a little effort. Show that your look matters.
At this point of my life, I hope my deal breakers turn into meal makers. A man who cooks well can lure me in pretty quickly, transporting me past many Dokken-like character flaws. Sad but true.
So while I don't think I'll ever fall for a metal-loving, pussy-hating, Budweiser t-shirt wearing Christian who thinks black and white movies are creepy, I'm still open. At least, I try to be.
(That lap dance by Dokken doesn't sound so bad afterall. If you guys are available (which I'm guessing you might be), please meet me at The Sandbox Cafe this Saturday. I'll be the girl with the mimosa and the semi-jaded outlook.)
(Yeah, that's right. Manilow. Try to stop me. Just try.)



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Comments
Love your writing though, as ever and always.
The Dokken factor would be hard to get past. Agreed.
I mean, maybe if it was 1989, ya know.
And I am constantly amazed to hear stories of
guys who won't go "down there". Blows my mind.
Great post...
Amen.
Deborah, never knew you liked the Bee Gees! I'm a big fan. Maybe I'll have to write about them at some point. I think most people assume stuff about them because of the disco era, but they've had such a comprehensive and amazing career.
Choreville, you are right. Bon Jovi is hot here. Still. Not for me, but always "Jersey relevant."
Trig, you'd be surprised. Its Barry when he was young and sweet and that song really is pretty amazing.
Iamsurly, I thought you might relate.
Roger, I have no clue who Mannheim Steamroller is, but the name alone has me rolling.
WSFTC, Guinness t-shirts are fine because Guinness is special!
JustJuli, I'll have to check out Aqua. But the cherry stem more than makes up for it, I'm sure!
Eva, your comment made me laugh the most. Those creatures....mwah! Ha....too funny.
i wonder in india when a family is arranging for the marriage of their daughter if it's one of the questions they ask if the daughter is insisting on a "modern" marriage. p.s. they have a lot lower divorce rate than in the west.
rated
I am know little of Manilow, but I watched half of the Taylor--whatever his-name-was season of American idol, and even contestants who didn't know Manilow remarked on what good ideas he had when he worked with them. I think he has his own genius.
Best line ever!
LMAO and thankfully I haven't encountered one of those yet. Now I know what to say if I do.
;-)
Passed onto single friends for further study and input.
Your mileage may vary, of course. About my only deal-breaker is cats, b/c I have them and love them--and they've been far more loving and loyal than some men, including my XH, have ever been.
But that's only if we've gone out long enough for him to cross my threshold. And if he doesn't, well, there's the door. Besides, it's just a date, not a 3-yr, no-cut contract...
Horror stories, all. Lead me to a Monastery.
Now THAT was funny!
Like Juliet said: dogs can be great judges of character. Don't like my dogs -- or at least fake it really well -- then buh bye. My other half not only loved my schnauzers, he had a chow and they all got along famously. It was a sign from above.
Years ago I went through a dating phase where every guy on my first date mentioned while he was an engineer /computer tech/ programmer, his real love was music and he was working to be a musician. Hmmm. I figured they all read some magazine that said "women love that line". I took it as a sign to move on. :)
But if I encountered the same quirk in someone now, I'd probably run away screaming and chalk it up to the "Dokken Factor".
dokken ::gah:: but manilow? a musical wonder. and the video was astonishing: he's young and nervous and so not puffed up. whatever people think of the guy, he's a fabulous musician and songwriter. if bette midler loves him? 'nuf said.
Thanks for thumbs on the few that mentioned the Barry video! I too found it beautiful. People just have so many issues around him - but during this phase, he was just a wonderful musician and songwriter. We put too many people in boxes, I say.
Slim, was it you who said your first date pulled a knife on you and robbed you? My goodness. You have a story right there that I would instantly read. Wow. Yes...that's definitely a deal breaker. Mugging is a deal breaker! Ha...
Juliet, that's quite an interesting story. Yes, what a strange reaction about your dog. How chilly!
Leonde, your comment really hit the heart of the matter for me. It made me sad to read it but its right on:
"Being single, this is funny yet painful...it's one thing to be bored by a date, it's another thing to be treated with so little consideration that you are reduced to tears..."
Straight up, sister.
Sorry can't comment back to everyone but must work for money for a bit.
Ocular, I would never mind your wardrobe.
And for me, I haven't bumped into a "first date deal breaker" yet--and unless Sami throws me out on my ear, I hope to never have to date again. My rule of thumb is, Dokken is okay so long as there's enough other mutual interests. You need a balance, don't you think, or it gets boring?
But I do think you should give 'em another chance, Beth.
And by that of course I mean 80's cheese metal...
Your just breakin' the chains around you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vgby7U_FVks&feature=related
And of course, Beth...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KbtO_Ayjw0M
The last dude I let try felt like a cold damp rag flopping around. No feelings of sensuality or wonderfulness at all. And no amount of couching helped.
I'm more than a bit hesitant to let my current fellow try.
And KristyCC, I hear you! I know I have no right whatsover to judge others' musical tastes. Well, wait. I take that back. I listen to my cheesy pop music sometimes with ears wide open. I realize its corn potential and still like it. It's an active choice, not accidental. I think I know a lot about music so I feel as if I've earned the right to go cheese, if so desired.
Lucky sweetheart, with that pretty name and avatar, I feel good oral in your very near future. It really does take a little finesse and tuning in, and not every guy gets it.
Life ain't fair at all, at all...
My current GF doesn't like me to do oral on her.
I'm an older guy. I've never had any complaints in the past, and must say I enjoy the act most thoroughly, and miss doing it a lot.
Is this Dokken time for us?
----sign me--Wondering?
Rated for Jersey Girls.
Exit 7
Runners up? Guys who chew gum, or expect me to go dutch.
Another: the guy who told me that it really pissed him off when his baby daughter (6 month old maybe) would drop things--he thought she was being "bad."
OMG. First dates! Yech!
I'm happy on my own. I'm happy on my own. I'm happy on my own....I'm happy........
(Great photo Beth!)
I think you mean, "If I were a straight man"
It's subjunctive mood, assuming you are not, in fact, a straight man, you are expressing a hypothesis, this is always subjunctive.
R
Or more seriously, how about a FAQ to hand out prior to that dreaded first date? Why can't we use technology to get beyond these barriers?
With the search engine technology and knowledge of all screen names, it would be possible to compile the critical information, I would think.
Or, just agree to swap iPods prior to agreeing to the first date. You could check out the various Amazon lists.
I've been working with Google's personal electronic health record (for legit business purposes) but think they should offer an electronic sexual preference record.
Like you have to separate those who prefer silk to velcro to leather, no?
The Southern Hemisphere seems to be a universal, so no need to ask about that.
Just wondering.
But no oral ever -- well, yes, that would be a dealbreaker. When I was single, I once dated a guy for 6 months who essentially had that position and it was a drag. But I also was involved with a guy who I had to drag away from that area by dangling a pork chop near his head so he'd get distracted and move on before I became my own pair of chaps. That's actually not great either.
I clicked on it wondering if it was you, if you were cross-posted or something, but instead found that it was total crap, which this woman is presumably paid to write. And now I hate everything.
Just kidding, I am.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/11/18/rrants.dating.dealbreakers/index.html
But you're right: t-shirts are passe. Alas.
But, am I the only person that thinks oral sex is the 'lazy man's' way to pleasing a woman? Not that there is anything wrong with it, of course. Same with astroglide. They are all fine and good, but I don't believe in taking shortcuts.
My biggest dealbreaker is when they say "yeah, well, you're wrong" after you explain why you passionately believe something. Grr. Although, admittedly, I'm like that game in the arcade that only the super geeky kids know about -- the one that gives unlimited extra lives if you just push the right buttons. Someone oughta call the technician out to fix that one of these days. Great post, as usual!
"But I also was involved with a guy who I had to drag away from that area by dangling a pork chop near his head so he'd get distracted and move on before I became my own pair of chaps."
That's priceless.
Nick, interesting perspective. I don't think its the lazy man's way out. Au contraire. I think the problem is (gosh maybe too early for this) men go down on women a little too vigorously. It needs a light to medium tongue touch. And slow and methodical works better for me. Women can become desensitized pretty quickly down there if hands or mouth are too vigorous.
But Nick, there are many ways to turn on a woman. My gosh - the neck is a popular erogenous zone for many women. Or the back. It does seem like sex becomes very regimented - as if we have 4 or 5 moves that we perform instead of looking at the bigger picture, if that makes sense. It's not about one particular act - its the whole thing. God, even if a guy talks to me a certain way - that does a lot. I won't elaborate because I'm starting to become embarrassed and this is the dumb old Internet.
Funny and well written as usual!r
Come on, Rita - give it a try. You too Trig.
Where's Kind of Blue or MJwhycha to give me a few knocks?
(Yes, it's an oblique joke. Sue me.)
If a girl doesn't use her true voice, if it's affected by some sort of character flaw, then I can't date her.
People should talk the way they're meant to, not the way they think they're meant to.
http://open.salon.com/blog/beth_mann/2009/01/17/family_matters
Summed up, its upping the crazy level so you earn crazy respect from them, usually causing them to back off or fear you slightly. Crazy people may be crazy but they still recognize craziER...sometimes.
Doug, this actually reminds me of a funny little article I read eons ago in which a single woman who lived in NYC said she'd figured out how to tell if a guy liked to go down on women by what he liked to eat when they were out for a meal. She said guys who liked more sour, briny foods were always enthusiastic about it. So she gave the thumbs up to Jewish guys (who grew up eating kosher pickles) as well as Italians. She noticed that guys who only liked bland foods were the ones who tended to not want to please a woman in that way. (She started to avoid all men raised in the Midwest.)
I have to say....this pretty much matches my own experience. The one guy I had "trouble" with was not an adventurous eater, either.
In my callow youth, I read 'the idiots guide' and it seemed the height of sophistication to dive in/jump on/ light up. After (of all places) the internet, and I discovered that at least some women had exquisitely filthy imaginations regarding almost all things erotic, well.....
There just seemed to be no reason to limit the menu to comfort food.
As if there aren't enough mixed metaphors here.
I'm going to print it off, laminate it, and carry it in my wallet.
Except what I like. Which is pretty much anything on VH1's "Top Ten Worst Songs of All Time," and New Kids on the Block. We've made it work.
But then again, why am I engaging with another gray avatar here when you're obviously just a troller. Troll away from me!
Dokken. Wow. You don’t hear too many folks use Dokken to exemplify their musical tastes.
My guess is that this poor fellow once owned more than one half shirt, occasionally sported a headband, and knew all the words to Ratt’s “Round and Round” and enjoyed flicking his Bic during the Scorpion’s “Wings of Change.” I would further guess that the first time he got up a girl’s shirt was during the summer of 1985 in the backseat of his white IROC with Dokken jamming from the radio. Thus the incomprehensible and disturbing connection to Dokken.
Personally, I always dreaded the “what kind of music do you like” question. See, I’m a nerd, therefore that question can lead to potential danger. There’s always the risk I may sputter off into a music geek tangent. I’ve scared more than one girl away when I’ve gotten in depth on which guitar god had the better stint in the Yardbirds, and just forget about it if I started talking jazz. I can think of a few girls who would have preferred ol’ Don Dokken to my talk of Coltrane’s classic quartet. I found the hard way that geeking out on a first date is the ultimate Dokken factor. Sometimes I would deflect and mention completely milquetoast and odd things like “I love Roxette more than ABBA” just to see how long I could keep that going. I figured if a girl could laugh at that later on, then she’s at least got a sense of humor. And humor is my Dokken factor.
Anyway, well developed and funny piece, as usual .
Yes - sometimes I just wander around in your old posts.