That muskrat picture slays me every time.

Two words: Tumbleweed Connection

Kathy, Come Down in Time from T.C. is one of my favorite tunes!

Come Down in Time, and Where To Now, St. Peter?

Both Sunday hymns.

Beth, Come Down in Time was one of the first ten songs I put on my first iPod. De rigueur.

I won't even click on that "Turn Me Loose" travesty of a song. Why Mann, why?

Yes. I am one of those Phil Collins fans who pretended "Sussudio" never happened. r

BM,

I was with you till you made that crack about Dylan.

I'll get over it..........one day.

We Built This City is hands-down the worst song (not just rock) ever recorded. Sad to see the Muscrat Love bashing, but I have a sneaky suspicion Willis Allen Ramsey is pretty sick of that song himself.

Charlie, did you hear that Dylan Christmas album? There were spoofs everywhere about it. It was profoundly bad. And a silly move. But it is true: I am NOT a Dylan fan - there I said it. I respect his poetry but can't get past his voice.

MJ: You BETTER listen to that Loverboy song. It's a good song. Really, I don't understand your issues around them. It's like you heard it was cool not to like Loverboy and jumped on that bus. There not a great band but they are a solid rock band with a big sound. They're not overly serious. They're just plain old rock - that's it. Not great - but not bad.

"Loverboy gets a bad rap and I’m never quite sure why."

Really? Really? Look at the picture again, Really?
I've made hamburger helper that was more original than that.

Thank you Mr. Cox. Thank you.

Beth....

There is no upside to defending the mediocre (i.e. Loverboy).

It may be a victimless crime, like that cheap 8 ball we are all looking for, but let them plea out for time served and move on.

The crime is digging out stuff that should have simply faded from memory. Justice demands that they simply live with what they produced, and die knowing that for all the effort, they could have really rocked.

I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised that neither of you (having already read Part 2) even touched the 80's "One Hit Wonder" phenomenon or sunk to attacking classic alternative. You came close with REM's Shiny Happy People, but that was after REM sold out so doesn't count :-)

great post.

THIS
"The de-evolution of Jefferson Airplane to Starship is one of the most tragic stories in rock history. "

I saw them twice in the 60s, as the airplane. Indescribable the hot tuna, er, tunes they expanded on, live. The harmonies, the jams, the intricacy. Then again maybe it was the blotter.

Starship lacked an impulse drive. Nothing but dry dock.

Huey Lewis and Phil Collins are bot weenies. Dropped in from some lame planet. Nothing either ever did was any better than top-40 with clever pop hooks. Like TV commercials, 3:43 minutes long. OK, they had some good pipes. Which made them worse. Over-rated lounge singers. Feh.

damn funny. And much-needed.

Wow--we hate the same stuff.
The songs mentioned are some of the WORST ever.
"Hip to be Square"...So completely dumb.
Great post, Beth!
{runs off to read Part 2}

Any Rock and Roll Hall of Shame list that even considers including the late, great Warren Zevon has no creditability with me.

And Loverboy definitely sucks.

I'm with Mann. Even though "Werewolves" sucked, Warren is off limits. He gave his life to the cause. Now, if there had been a duet with him and Huey Lewis, that would be different.

I was kind of shocked when Ms. Mann brought up Zevon--he's one of the great songwriters--even Werewolves of London is pretty cool I think. I even have a really cool boot of the Dead doing a 15 minute version of Werewolves of London--should I crank that one up?

Hey Beth? Where's 'Afternoon Delight' by Starland Vocal Band?

If that isn't a crime against rock....

A list like this could get really long. There's always more crap than good stuff.

I'm with MJ that it is very problematic to to put Werewolves on here. This was Zevon still coming up and finding his way. Maybe if he had recorded it later, then it meets the criteria for being a good band gone bad.

The bottom line though is that I really like the song so my rationalizations may just self-justifying BS.

Very good.

ugh. Did you have to remind me of all this ear crud on a Sunday morning? Except for Werewolf--I kinda liked the howling. I'm afraid to look at the other post now.

I am in breathless concurrence with all of these except Zevon, Your Honor; he is sacred (and I even like the song). You forgot "Afternoon Delight."

I like this concept a lot- kind of a "when good bands do bad things" list (well, except for Huey Lewis and Loverboy.) But I have to say, I love Werewolves. Love it. Along those lines though- another fun concept would be "the Blasphemy List" in which you make the case for "overratedness" Ohhh the flamewars that will erupt! Bwahahahaha. Or you could list the bands that have absolutely no redeeming value like say, Vengaboys or ....Rush (HA! See what I did there? Combined the two...so clever! Hahahahaha! It was a joke! A joke!!! Don't hurt me MJ!! NO!!!)

Oh and PS- WHERE is Sister Christian??? Classic crime.

Muskrat Blech! But I am totally down with Werewolves of London!

Lately I've been thinking that songs I hated once have now become enjoyable nostalgia. I suddenly get a kick out of journey and even reo speedwagon. But, huey lewis and the news? Never. They just suck forever and ever and ever.
Elton John: WTF? how does one so seemingly full of genius and beauty turn to someone no better than my swinish aunt barbara??

but, but muskrats need lovin' too! I will always remember Tumbleweed Connection fondly wrapped in my teen years...the 70's - an oasis in the disco desert...

I love old Elton, I actually called my download CD "When Elton didnt' Suck" and it had Come Down in Time, High Flyin Bird, Burn Down the Mission all goodies. I have to say I really liked In the Air Tonight, cheesey I know. I had Muskrat Love in my head for days after Robin Sneed referenced in on her blog a couple months ago, horrid! It won't go away so don't even hum it for fun it's like crack. R
for the court... great times.

Bonnie, you said: "But wait....Jefferson Airplane did build this city! :)"

I think that would be news to The Grateful Dead, Big Brother and the Holding Company, New Riders, Santana, The Diggers, the Mime Troupe, Ken Kesey and the Merry Pranksters :-D

So I won't quibble over agreeing or not agreeing with parts of your list, although I am around 80% in total agreement. And I always thought Phil was singing about the shampoo. And you also reminded me of a good laugh I had once, my boss thought the song was "Werewolves of Thunder'' and had sung it that way for years. And although you don't like it, it is one of the classic drunken, crank up the jukebox to full volume while the whole bar sings along, songs.

Oh, ps, you left off Elton and "Don't go breaking my heart" or Susie Quatro and "Stumblin In".

Damn, Beth.

Elton John gets a pass. He ruled the '70s.
Warren Zevon gets a pass. He put out Sentimental Hygiene.
Phil Collins gets a pass for being the best fucking drummer Peter Gabriel ever had.

You were right about every one.

Well...the banter is great.

Beth: What's wrong with me? I like Dylan's voice but I get pretty mixed up trying to figure out what he's talking about. And I had memorized all the worrds to Subterranean Homesick Blues by age 15.

MJ: The boot of Zevon's Werewolves of London could be good if it truly only lasts for 15 minutes. I saw the Dead 4 times I believe it was. Walked out each time. Didn't know about two of those as I was interpreting my exit as some sort transmogrification. The other two I just couldn't stay up for another day and half while Garcia kept playing the same tune.And I actually sat and ate a piece of solar cooked corn, chatting it up with Kesey one sunny Saturday in the way back when he came to hear me play at one of those mud festivals back then.

Muskrat love....WHY did we all think that was a good song?! I'm embarrassed to even say the words now. What kind of medication we were on anyway?

To all Phil Collins fans:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=TnzFRV1LwIo

Check it out. I can say no more.

What a fine addition you are to the Crimes Against Rock prosecution team. An you look totally hot in the leather jacket... seriously.

You're wrong about Phil Collins though. He never did and damn thing worth listening to.

First of all, David and MJ, did you listen to the tune at the top of the page. It's a good rock song.

If they're unoriginal then who do they sound like? I don't think Loverboy sounds like tons of bands.

And geez, if we're going to go down the derivative route, what band doesn't sound like another. (Hence my dislike for Pearl Jam - they have so many mediocre spawns.)

But who does Loverboy sound like?

Hell must be the playing of these tunes and Surly's bad food photography....xox

Beth, Beth, Beth, you know I love you... but jeez, you dis two of my men in one breath (Bob and Warren). Yes, the X-mas tunes were a bad idea for a nice Jewish boy, but what about Together Through Life?

Oh, and then you call Girl from Ipanema creepy. Obviously you never read my take on that song...

(I just read your comment that you're "NOT a Dylan fan." I am CRUSHED! heh)

I can't believe that I am gonna have these awful songs stuck in my head all day. However, I am a Collins fan, and In The Air Tonight is one of my favorites (ducks rotten tomato being thrown at her). Thanks for putting that in there so I could play it and get all of the other songs out of my head.

I want to win regardless of the truth, regardless of justice, regardless of who's guilty or innocent. I want to win, Beth!

sweetfeet, no need to duck tomatoes. my point with some of these songs is that we're trained to believe they're crappy pop tunes and only people less "in the know" would like them.

it's my "bee gees theory" as I call it (actually, I just called it that...looks like i'll have to write about that too now.)

but the collins video, if you watch it through to end, its so awesome. he kicks it out of at the end. and its exciting to see him play one of the most well-known drum segments in rock when he first starts playing.

sally, i know - i keep it quiet about dylan because i know the wrath i'll endure. not even a little bit of a fan - kinda the opposite.

zevon is kinda like zappa to me - i feel like i'm supposed to appreciate them but i don't really always get what they're going after. yes, i know they're good. i get that.

wait! there's one zevon song i effin' love:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwXMkfeH95k

Okay, the drums duet was pretty cool. Phil needs to stay behind the Ludwigs and forget about all that silly singin' and songwritin' stuff.

In the Air Tonight is tolerable at best.

Cap'n, it's true - i DO look sexy in a leather jacket. ha...

but seriously - you don't think collins did ANYTHING worthwhile? I mean, I almost hesistated putting "in the air tonite" because its overplayed and not one of his best tunes.

do you mean with genesis too? you can't mean that...you simply can't (said in british accent.)

monsieur - you win! i forgot to tell you. but you win.

The release of Philadelphia Freedom signaled that Elton would be jumping off his artistic cliff. Loverboy should get a bad rap because of the band's name. I don't care if Mozart wrote their tunes. The name "Loverboy" screams "bubble-gum pop wannabe." Do not even think about messing with Dylan. You do rock that jacket, Beth.

Cap'n, this is Phil with Genesis. From one of my fave recordings called Duke:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0YTpd-WcPk

Thanks Beth & MJ. Love this concept. Love anything musical (good or bad) I was a little disturbed for a minute because I thought you said "Eric clapton sucked". then I could never come back here again. But it was Phil Collins sucking WITH Eric Clapton (oh..that sounds kinky) anyway.
least Hot Tuna rules

"At least Hot Tuna rules"

let's just say it's a sad day when mike and the mechanics are the best thing to come out of genesis. in the air is overplayed and wasn't all that to start with.

sorry beth, i'm a truth teller.

Cap'n you must have missed my comment where I acknowledge openly Air Tonite being overplayed (which doesn't make a song bad in and of itself anyway) and where I asked you did you mean ANY genesis or just phil collins?

Because, Cap'n, out of Genesis also came Peter Gabriel and Phil Collins - both far superior to Mike and the Mechanics. But I'm guessing you know that.

And Trilogy, I was being facetious, as I'm guessing you know. Those videos were put up there as proof of just the opposite. It's MJ who thinks Phil sucks, not I. Au contraire.

I think we should hold MJ in contempt of court.

In The Air Tonight is actually one of my all time favorites. It sounds great to me . I heard it's some epic revenge song- which speaks to me etc. Till this I never knew it was reviled in any way.
I love the bee gees too, and did before it became halfway cool too.
Elton is up there with my top 5 musicians and I marvel at how be became ....what he became.

Go ahead. Hold me in contempt. Sometimes I can be contemptible. Especially when discussing the boring and vanilla Phil Collins.

You're out of order. This whole court is out of order!

Oh, now the Flash Gordon theme is classic! They made better songs, but "Flash, ah-ah!". Where else you going to get lyrics like that?

This hole blog is Out of Order !!! This is old stuff , leave these people alone for god sake, ya old Farts . Just looking at these people made me depressed. Can you even consider any of this Rock in the first place ? I think I made these conclusions about these bands let's see ahhh... 25 years ago , it's 2010 guys. The only crime I see here is commenting on this irrelevant stuff in the first place.

Court is now adjourned.

Gee, Ron67...just checked out your page where you have AC/DC singing "A Whole Lot of Rosie."

The comment I left:

"Ha! (Spitting out wine) YOU'RE lecturing to US about old ass music?

A Whole Lot of Rosie....sigh. Doesn't this AC/DC song sound remarkably like, uh...just about every other AC/DC song? Yes, yes, it does. Because the band has known about 2 chord progressions their entire career.

Thank you for teaching us what's what about rock and roll. You're infinitely more knowledgeable.

It's a retrospective of rock music. Half of the fun is looking BACK at bands from the past (especially the 80's) because they're trainwrecks seem more obvious now."

Now, someone - escort this know-it-all wannabe from my courtroom!

It's like, I want to comment, but I'm not sure what I'd say. From a purely musical perspective, I pretty much agree on all counts . . . the problem is the nostalgia factor. I have a hard time distinguishing where the nostalgia factor could be clouding my judgement. Oh, and Beth - quite sexy in the leather.

I hereby appoint myself bailiff for a minute, and I hereby cyber-escort RON67 from The Honorable Judge Mann's court.

Recipe for an AC/DC song: G, C, D chords in any sequence, plus sentences involving "rock and roll", "blood", "night", and "rock and roll".

And I'm actually an AC/DC fan.

"We built this city" has always been one of my guilty pleasures. I genuinely love that song.

The only thing I want to be is out of this court room. Wow you got me, I didn't see that one coming. I needed to blast AC/DC just to get the thought of this music out of my head. I was semi sarcastic in writing this but these choices you guys use are so painfully obvious and buy the way most great music modern music was written with three chords Beatles eX. Now excuse me I'll escort myself out of this nursing home courtroom.

Hey, Ron67, why not write a list of your own? You seem really full of it. And you do a GREAT job of posting audio from YouTube.

You could go after newer bands like Fleet Foxes or MGMT or Grizzly Bear...you'll be oh so cool AND cutting edge.

And please don't put the words "great music" in the same paragraph as AC/DC. I know of some school children who could write more complex music - and those are the ones with learning disabilities.

And, as far as AC/DC, at least I'm not wearing a fucking school boy's uniform on stage after 30 years. Guess you don't mind that dated behavior. Maybe it's the the dementia setting it.

Your Back in Black album is calling....or is it the 8-track?

I must live in an alternative universe. Sussudio is the only Phil Collins' song I can stand.

When my wife broke up with me before we were married I bought her the single version of "Separate Lives", the love theme from the ballet-spy movie "White Knights," just because it was so bad.

The whole ballet-spy film genre died shortly thereafter.

Con, too funny:

"The whole ballet-spy film genre died shortly thereafter."

Short-lived, indeed.

I needed a laugh this morning. 'Ballet-spy' did it. Thanks, Con.

I have to agree with all but the Zevon, though my 6-year-old self takes issue with Muskrat Love (at least the C&T version) being on the list. My adult self understands, but is also devasted to learn that it was originally an America tune. Both selves still love that band!

"Loverboy gets a bad rap and I’m never quite sure why."

Really? Really? Look at the picture again, Really?
I've made hamburger helper that was more original than that.

Truly. As warmed over and regurgitated as it gets.

Sorry, can't agree on Warren Zevon. Otherwise you've got my vote.

Thank for that Zevon youtube link -- oh my -- that was one cool dude. in fact, everybody on that gig was hot. The essence of cool.

Back to Loverboy, I've heard "regurgitated" and "unoriginal." Yet I've yet to hear who they are mimicking. And to add to that, what band ISN'T derivative?

To me, they're just a standard rock band. They're not bad. They do what rock bands are supposed to do.

If they dressed differently and weren't called "Loverboy" I guarantee you wouldn't have the same issues.

Again, back to my "Bee Gee theory" - people take issue with the Bee Gees because they're heavily associated with disco, which is frowned upon. They wore shiny outfits. They sang in a crazy falsetto. They're easy to bash. Though they were an amazing trio with countless hits. One of the MOST successful bands of all time. They must be doing SOMETHING right.

Again, listen to the Loverboy song at the top of the page. Put your ideas aside and just listen. It's simple rock. That's all. Not bad. Mike Reno's voice alone makes it well worth listening to.

Clever!!! And I agree with you, about the ones I know.

Ms. Mann,

Gee, it's fun to agree with someone so much. I'm ashamed that I once did like Billy Joel. I really can't see why now. He's not very good. But, I'm proud that I always stuck by my bee gee love despite some major peer pressure. I have memories when I was 17 in 86 and everyone thought I was being ironic or something for listening and loving on the bee gees. Bee gee hatred was fierce!
The bee gees are just great great great.

I really enjoy your blog.

Ok, but this is a pretty lame selection. Try these all were Top 40 hits:

Timothy -- The Buoys. Cannibalism trumps Muskrats.

Just a gigolo -- David Lee Roth. No comment necessary

good one, beth. now to #2. i saved this 'til monday and it's so worth it.

At the end of the night out, as long as you and I and everyone posting here still rock like there's no tomorrow, that's all that matters, isn't it?

I have so many nominees...so, so many nominees...

But I can't disagree with a word you guys have said here. Brilliant.

Don't need a list to be cool Popcorn I already am, thanks for the YouTube complement though . Maybe I'll indulge in some Bach or Handel tonight, as far as old AC/DC pure Balls out baby you can't deny that. I see you've fixed me into an AC/DC head that's ok , need that target . Oh by the way I asked some of the zombies from "Night of the Living Dead" what they thought about some these choices in this blog , ya it was funny they all ran back into there coffins with hammers and nails and nailed themselves shut forever . Ya they also said we can find better a conversation piece in a morgue.

The genius is in the simplicity

Oh and I would hope you wouldn't be running around in a schoolboy uniform at this point ,that would be a little bizarre .

Back in Black Forever DUDE ! ha ha

I have to thank the two of you for doing this nasty job so well (and hilariously). Seriously. You deserve combat pay.

If we're going to discuss crimes against rock, we need to bring up "Rubber Band Man" "Still the One" and "Don't Fear the Reaper". In fact, pretty much every song that was out during the year 1976 could be added to this list. I lived thru that year and am just recovering now.

...and can anyone ever forget "Afternoon Delight"?

Aw c'mon people. Warren Zevon was a genius, and though "Werewolves" was a bit on the silly side, it's still a great song. You could have left him out and dedicated the space to "Everything Rush have ever recorded, except maybe some of the bass riffs".

Ron67--what are you talking about man? I see from your blog you are a drummer. Go beat on your drum for a while. It'll relax you.

Monsieur--Yes. Perfect comment.

fromboston, you are right - afternoon delight should be found guilty and placed in solitary confinement for eternity.

and geebee, i know warren zevon is a good artist. our list purposefully showcases songs one or the other has issue with...and I've always had issues with the werewolf tune. these lists are a bit...arbitrary. if we just listed just the crappiest songs ever, what fun would that be?

if you look above, in one of my previous comments,i listed one of my fave zevon songs.

Hey I forgot to rate this yesterday. Ooops.

Um, what about Pablo Cruise, "Love Will Find a Way?" And who can forget the album cover, with the entire band dripping wet in their birthday suits? Some philosophical attempt at being "stripped down" and letting the music speak for the band? If that's the case the music was saying "we suck."

Oh, but Paul Kantner was the real offender behind Starship. And even after Grace Slick got fired, returned and left again, he was STILL going at it. To this day!

We should hang out some time , I got some good creative ideas for this area ( Jersey shore / Pine barrens ) might need some help in the future , you good with a camera, acting ? The post before AC/DC is a horror film I did check it out .

moray70--actually Kantner left Jefferson Starship before it became Starship. Though, he did hire Micky Thomas in 78. Should have begged Balin to stay...

I can't believe you didn't even indict the pompitus of love!!

Thank you for making me laugh just before I have two hours of meetings ahead of me. :-)

I'll lay my shameful rock cards on the table:

1) I sing along enthusiasticaly to the Flash Gordon theme. It never fails to lift my spirits. "Flash! Ah-haaaa....saviour of the universe..."

2) I don't know and don't care what a Sussudio is. I just love the beat man. "Su-su-sudio..."

3) I like Huey Lewis. Yeah, I said it. *Wanders off humming..."it's hip to be square..."*

Sorry! I deleted a comment by accident. It was the one that said Loverboy being the epitome of corporate rock - I forget from whom. Please resend.

In my attempts to keep the spamming of the page, I accidentally deleted. Let it be known that I rarely, if ever, delete a comment from my page unless its spam.

Back to the corporate rock tag, Journey was also considered corporate rock (and I love some old Journey.) Besides, what the eff does corporate rock really mean? That the tens of millions of people who work for corporate America may listen to it? Seems hardly a crime.

Rated. "We built this city" has to be the worst rock song ever. Phil Collins is a laughing stock here in Britain and was even before this ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=TnzFRV1LwIo

If you didn't follow the link to the Cadbury gorilla when Jeremiah H told you, watch now ....

I beg to differ about Dylan. The Christmas album may have been a bad idea, but I've always said that what he does with one of the worst voices in the world shows up most singers for the hacks they are. They have good or even great voices and can't do a damn thing with them. Dylan takes what he has and makes MUSIC.

Nice stuff about "Crimes Against Rock".I agree to all comments are posted over here .your content is too good.Thanks beth.thanks for sharing for this post.
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