I just cyber-rubbed you up good. monkey fingered.

OMG, you're right. It sucks here!

[wanders off to read somebody else's stuff]

@ J L Davis

Then I failed to convey the cost Open Saloners pay: there's no playing for free. You're a journalist, so you're paid to write, as am I. Therefore, it surprises me that you don't realize that you're writing for free, while Salon makes money from your copy. The only way Open Salon contributors win is IF they value cyber-rubbing more valuable than the cash that Salon collects, but doesn't dispense.

I can't find a way to be that cynical about it. I also get to read for free too.

@ Verbal Remedy

I'm not saying it sucks. I'm arguing that there's inequity. Salon seems to be your beloved, thus your sarcasm, but being cognizant of the dynamics between you and your beloved is pragmatic, whether your beloved is a boy or a website.

@ JL Davis

So, in your meat world, when you meet people who differ with you, do you urge them to scoot? If so, how do you function as a journalist? I often interview people different than me, but I don't ask them to leave.

And why don't you want the relationship that Open Salon has with its writers to be discussed? Why do you want to silence me?

I don't have a problem with people using Open Salon. I just think it's wise to understand that they're also being used and since people are willing to discuss EVERYTHING on Open Salon, shouldn't this fundamental relationship also be discussed?

These observations are correct and worrisome. I and others have been talking about this for a while. J L Davis states the obvious but omits the nuance—it's only good for OS if there's an infinite supply of us. For the time being there is, but in the long run I'm not so sure. This cuts the bottom out of yet another market, not only at Salon, but also across the industry. It puts downward price pressure on other magazines, and is a small but important contributing factor in the recent closings of many newspapers. The public perceives it can get something for free, but once everything untangles, everyone has to have the money to be able to afford the luxury of posting for free. If for each business there becomes someone willing to give things away for free, eventually there is nothing paying the bills—which is fine if we go totally communist and just give everyone money, but is less fine if people want to be able to earn their living. This has already happened in the software industry, where most programs are given away, and it's causing all manner of problems for the industry. Likewise the music industry. The issue has nothing to do with ingratitude for Salon's hosting this forum, and has everything to do with creating a stable (cyber)ecosystem.

I have to agree with JL Davis. I am not a professional writer, so perhaps having no expectation of pay for my writing in any venue tilts my perspective. Nonetheless, I have to wonder what brought you here initially - anticipation of a windfall in tips? It's not a job, it's a website.

(And I agree fully, JL Davis, about Dr. Amy - I sure wish she got less front page exposure here.)

Kent...I think you're citing theories from "THE STARFISH AND THE SPIDER" which are both inevitable and troublesome. It is a hurricane that has wiped out the entertainment and communications industries forcing them to rethink and retool and in some cases cease to exist.

Like the music business, the film business is on the verge of a similar shakedown. Youtube has turned every person into a filmmaker flooding the market with content and driving down budgets to shocking lows.

We are in the midst of a second strike in a year all over internet revenue. Pretty soon commercial television will be a thing of the past as people begin to get their TV off the computer...it's already happening.

Anyway, Kent if this doesn't match up with your comments...my apologies.

@ Mr. Pitman

You've considered this issue far beyond the borders of Open Salon. The inequity leads to instability.

@ J L Davis

I get that you want me to go away. Scorn me, but it's bad form to denigrate Dr. Amy in this thread, or, as you describe her, "'dr' Amy". Since she's not here, you're gossiping.

@ Nurse PhD

I came here via Salon, which often headlines Open Salon essays. Go to Salon and you'll see that I'm a regular particpant, under the same moniker.

Bigguns, I love reading you, but don't agree with you this time. I see this more as a SecondLife, or Dave's Garden type experience, and am surprised that they don't make us pay a monthly/yearly fee. Most online places to play do, and have every right to do that since they are paying for the equipment to host us, and the manpower to make sure everything stays functional.
So any benefit in hits they get from my words, they are welcome to it. I appreciate their servers and time.

Where you stand depends on where you sit. You, bigguns, apparently sit in the place of one who makes his living from writing. And if you making money is the criterion by which you judge OS or any blogging community you have a point, although we have many professional writers here who do write here for a variety of reasons that do not equate to money.

Many others, like me, do not come here as professional writers. I once wrote and spoke and did research reports for money, but that was long ago. I am retired and joined here to write a bit, read a bit, and make friends with others who came for the same reason.

In my experience here the community forming aspect of OS has become more important to me than the writing. Making internet friends, helping them, getting to know them, encouraging them in their efforts here, and supporting them when they have troubles, has given me pleasure above what money could possibly buy.

I know that there is supposed to be a split in OS between the professionals and those like me, but it is not as big a split as some imagine. I guess the question for me is whether OS will continue to invite all types of members, or will find amateurs a less desirable species than professionals. I see no evidence of that yet.

Meanwhile the majority of OS members are amateurs like me. And I doubt if many of them care whether Salon makes money off of us. Actually, if Salon makes enough money off of us to keep OS open that seems a pretty good exchange to me.

Thanks for taking the time to articulate your concern.

Monte

Well, I'm an amateur writer, but I know at least a couple folks have bought some songs from my cd (http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/elliotscott2) or on iTunes.

So...no inequity here, PLUS I get to have fun/vent/meet wonderful and interesting folks.

I don't care. I like it here.

I'm a poet. If I were to wait for people to come looking for a poem, I would be waiting until the secon coming of King Sobieski! For me, Open Salon provides another way of reaching someone who may read one of my poems.

(pulls out muffin violin)

"Sniffle" What do you want, Bach or Mozart?

Geez, don't be buzz kill. There are some great people here, a few I don't agree with but I still appreciate and read . . .hell I even learn a thing or two now and then.

BBE:

Your such a perv . . . :D

@ hyblaean

Hey, Hun! Feel free to disagree with me. There's that Twilight Zone episode where the gambler has died and he's in a casino, where he wins and wins and wins. He finally asks if, since it's Heaven, he can't lose a little, and his escort says, "What makes you think this is Heaven?"

If some folks didn't disagree, that would be my Hell.

@ Monte Canfield

You're absolutely write that a word mercenary like me weighs all writing gigs by how much I get. So, that's my bias. Thanks for weighing in so sweetly.

P.S. - I'm a woman.

Sorry about the gender glitch. I come from a generation, long disabused of its paternalism, where the use of "his" was a neutral term. ;-)

I thought about writing his/her and realized that would likely offend either, so I chickened out. Then I couldn't tell by your pen name which sex lay behind it, unless I concluded that "bigguns" applied to something pastors shouldn't be commenting about when thinking about women, and shouldn't be talking about if you were a man, although Squirrel certainly loses the androgynous nature of the name with that difinitive avatar of, well, a well endowed Squirrel than leaves no question as to gender. ;-O!!!!

Peace,

Monte

@ the civilized Mr. Canfield

I chose a gender ambiguous moniker because I think we should lead with our ideas, rather than our gender, our race, our degrees, or anything else.

Peace back at ya!

"What makes you think this is Heaven?" giggle- amen to that

Well, hope you come back and hang out occasionally. I really miss some of you from over there.

What??????? You mean OS isn't paying you guys? I thought they were paying all of us. Wishing you all a peaceful holiday.

I' m getting paid. Aren't you guys?


Ha Ha!

(It seems some people are taking themselves waaayyy too seriously.)

I'm getting paid exactly what my writings command on the open market. Nothing.

Perhaps that is your real problem - your writings are also worth nothing here.

Better wordsmiths than either of us also garner the same wage.

bigguns, you've made much ado about nothing, literally. No professional writer should attempt to live by his/her pen here.

Understand what you've wandered into and enjoy it, or not. But don't expect many of us to rise up and bellow about the injustice of it all with you.

"I chose a gender ambiguous moniker because I think we should lead with our ideas, rather than our gender, our race, our degrees, or anything else."

A professional journalist/writer who doesn't care about context?