Breaking News: Report of Shooting at Orlando High-Rise
MSNBC is now reporting "a shooter", now identified as Jason Rodriguez, has shot 8 people at the Gateway Center in Orlando Florida. WESH-TV is covering the event from a helicopter. Emergency services are preparing for "mass casualties." The gunman is reportedly still on the loose.
***As of 12:52 Eastern, The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that 2 victims have died, and a total of 7 victims were shot.
***As of 12:56 Eastern, Live Chopper 2 of WESH-TV reports that the suspect is still on the loose. The reporter in the chopper is listening to police describe the suspect over a secure frequency, but they have not released a discription yet.
Also, Interstate 4 is closed in both directions, and a perimeter is in place around the building.
***As of 1:12 Eastern, the police have cleared the building, and the suspect appears to have fled the scene. They are seeking a male in a light blue polo shirt and jeans. One employee at scene described the suspect as a man "who has not worked for the company for over a year."
***As of 1:28 Eastern, Jason Rodriguez reportedly born 9/28/1969 is the suspect.
*** Suspect is reportedly driving a silver Nissan SUV with Florida tags D119UX
*** As of 2:18 Eastern, seen from the WESH helicopter, police appear to have one man in custody. The suspect vehicle has been located, and the police have a man in handcuffs.
*** As of 2:23 Eastern, The Mayor of Orlando confirmed that the suspect has been arrested. The Chief of Police found the suspect at his mother's residence. He was seen thru a window at the residence. He exited and "was arrested without incident".
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Glenn Farrington
Juliet Waters
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Salon.com
Comments
it's as if whites are allowed to have these fits of violence as heinous as they are (I'm thinking mcvey and how his blowing up an entire building did not have us breaking down doors of white supremists and other american nazi hate groups.
maybe it's expected or earned or whatever the hell the subliminal thinking behind or under it is. but god help someone if those who perpetrate violence are ethnic in any way, PARTICULARLY if they are muslim or (REALLY god help them) AA Muslims. oh crap.
I'm with you, surely hope they are random.
First of all, Orlando is full of giant high-rise apartments, built under the support of Mayor Buddy Dyer. It was his hallucinogenic belief that young, unmarried, hip urban professionals (read: gays) would rent these places, shop at downtown stores, build the city's economy and make him an economic hero.
Problems with this: gays aren't as stereotypical as Dyer and his construction business buddies believed. Those shoddy high-rise apartments cost too much. The economy crashed. Those high-rises are empty and are as haunted as abandoned houses. Of course someone would be inclined to start killing, especially if he was going broke and about to lose his home.
It's about time an ugly incident like this exposed the greed, political crime and stupidity in Central Florida, because our TV news and cowardly print newspapers won't do it.
Note to self: Stop doing that!
But seriously, there's a line from "V for Vendetta": Nobody escapes their past....and I believe that to be true even for our country. We were born of a wild west mentality.
* We, as civilians, armed ourselves with muskets and fought the Brittish for our independence.
* We then wrote it into our Constitution that individuals had the right to arm themselves.
* We used guns to charge across the continent and take the land away from those who were here first (I'm not whining about that, I'm just stating a fact).
* We collectively assembled the most massive military the world has ever seen, so that using really big guns we can bend other countries to our will.
* We entertain ourselves by watching violent movies that portray people shooting each other.
* We play "shooter" style video games so that we can "pretend" to shoot other people.
We have woven guns and violence into our culture from the beginning, so it shouldn't be surprising that when people feel the need to lash out they reach for their gun.
Nobody escapes their past, and our country's past (and present) is a gun culture of our own making. And one of the unfortunate side effects of a centuries-long love affair with guns, is the tens of thousands who are killed by guns in this country each year.
Strange, that we as a country tolerate this and can not muster the collective will to enact the necessary changes.
Thousands of people all around the world live everyday wishing they were dead and yet their basic instinct to survive does not allow them to escape and they keep on hoping and hoping. Dont let a few bad eggs foul up the whole world.
personally I refuse to be scared.
I find it fascinating from a psychological/cultural viewpoint to see these things happen and watch the various responses to them.
And while ideally it would be nice if we found a solution, it seems pretty clear that the problem of violence is so deep-seated in our culture and our psyches that no solution is on the horizon.
You know that old canard about how armed people are better able to "defend themselves?"
You gotta think there were plenty of arms at Ft. Hood. Don't you.
The most fascinating thing about it was the mindset of Eric Harris. Essentially he was a psychopath who's only goal in life was to kill as many people as possible.
He is a prime example of the types of psychological rejects that we as a country churn out, and I just find it fascinating that every time these shootings occur we (not me, but we collectively as a country) run around in circles bemoaning the tragedy itself and proposing laws and such to prevent it from happening again, BUT seem almost completely UNINTERESTED in learning WHY we're churning out these defective people.
Guns are the specific means that Americans tend to choose to dispatch their victims - and the reason for that is that is because of the romanticized role of guns in our culture going all the way back to the American revolution.
But admittedly, the horse is out of the barn on this one. The past is the past and there's no way we're going to reign in guns. Logistically it's impossible and there isn't the collective will to do it.
Instead, we need to focus on the underlying problem: why, as a culture, are we churning out so many people who want to commit mass murder?
For me, guns are a problem - they make killing a lot easier and increase the body count.
But the underlying problem is WHY we all want to kill each other. And I find it bizarre that nobody seems very curious about figuring that out.
I personally wouldn't feel threatened in rural, southern areas if people were packing heat, because they seem generally to be less stressed out and more comfortable with guns. and so if they want to fantasize about saving the day when someone walks into Chick fil A and starts shooting - hey, whatever floats your boat.
But i would feel uncomfortable with urban city dwellers packing because they generally seem stressed out and much more likely to snap when they have a bad traffic day or someone cuts in front of them at Starbucks.
So i don't think one-size-fits-all laws are appropriate here.
"A man who was so deep in debt that he did not have the money to visit his son 30 minutes away opened fire Friday at the engineering firm that fired him two years ago, killing one person and wounding five, authorities said.
As officers led a handcuffed Jason Rodriguez into a police station, a reporter asked the divorced 40-year-old why he had attacked his former colleagues.
"Because they left me to rot," said Rodriguez, who recently told a bankruptcy judge he was making less than $30,000 a year at a Subway sandwich shop and owed nearly $90,000."
It appears that he was fired over performance issues. Honestly, with all of the people who have been laid off in the last couple of years, for no reason other than downsizing, I'm surprised this kind of thing isn't happening all the time.
That is why we need to end the wars NOW. A society addicted to violence eats its own.
And this is what happens in a country addicted to violence and war.
For which we can blame our national leaders. Starting with the head honcho in the White House and Congress, many of whom are making a fortune off of this, personally. Or their spouses and relatives are.
That's why war based economics are so destructive. They eat societies alive.
And that is why we need to end both wars now. They are not about Al Queda anyway. They are about oil and the further concentration of wealth. The only people benefitting are the oil companies, and Congresspeople who are authorizing these budgets, and who then steer these earmarks to their relatives.
It's digusting and tragic.
And we're the ones who pay.
One year in Afghanistan, a war we will never win (as every Empire who has tried to invade has learned in the past) equalled the cost of the ENTIRE DOMESTIC BAILOUT.
And is only increasing casualties, increasing the toleration for violence, and diverting the resources we need to rebuild our own society.
Not to mention creating tragedies like this and Fort Hood.
Good reporting.
But it's time for Americans to wake up and say NO MORE.
DJohn: Florida is already a shall issue state. So how come this shooting still occur? Sure- I'd feel safe if I had a gun too. Too bad the net result of everyone wanting to feel safer, is that everyone ends up being less safe. You say you have to sit in the corner table every time you get in a restaurant- sounds like you're living in Somalia or something. Who wants to live in a country where you have to prepare to kill or be killed at any moment?
As for "spotting someone who is about to go postal", I spent 5 years as a cop in Los Angeles after the Marine Corps.
There are two layers of bullshit to your claim about "spotting someone." First, you mentioned having a concealed carry permit. Concealed carry does not permit you to carry on to private property such as the office that Rodriguez attacked. You would be required to keep the gun off of the premises. Concealed carry permits refer to public spaces, not your job location. You would be subject to being fired, and in violation of the law.
Second, you can not know with certainty "if someone is about to go postal". If that were possible to know, the trend would have been stopped by now. There are not certain specific things to observe which appear 100% of the time, and indicate accurately. And even if they did, those indications must be reasonable suspicion or probably cause observed by a law enforcement official, otherwise that "look" that you reference is perfectly legal to express. Frankly, that "look" or indication would fall under the first amendment of free expression of political speech. You would not be allowed or empowered to search or apprehend them.
And finally DJohn, much better men than you have been in this circumstance, and have died. Much better men than you do this every day. If this were possible in the cartoonish manner that you described, it would be standard practice saving lives constantly. It is not as simple as you claim DJohn. It is nowhere near that simple. Your concealed carry permit deludes you into thinking that you have more expertise, and a greater advantage than you do. To take that further, it takes a fool to BROADCAST that you have a concealed carry permit. Further proof that it is bravado and not a wise application of skill. Now anyone can conceivably know that you are armed. Off duty LAPD dont announce that they are armed. Only trouble seeking morons do that.
I was also an expert marksman. An expert marksman cannot shoot what he cannot see. You can be approached in an office from 360 degrees. You cant possibly see every individual approaching you. You cant know that someone approaching from behind is not one of these nuts. Trained killers are not the only ones who dont give off signals. Sociopaths also dont give off signals. Someone may be armed with a letter opener, and not decide to dispatch you until he smells your cologne or see you scratch your head with your left hand, or take a bite from an apple. You have no idea what might set off a nut. The possibilities are virtually infinite. Your notion of being able to see all people in your environment, engage them before they engage you, and then dispatch them is not training, it is bullshit. That is not possible in the real world DJohn. And now, they can know that you are armed. Now, if you ever get into a conflict somewhere, and you choose incorrectly, and the other side sues you, you are on the hook for being armed and stupid. You are deluded DJohn.
Honestly, I pity anyone who feels they have to live that way. That is sad.
40 years ago when I was a teener my friend was a black belt in judo. We teens wanted to see him use his skills in a 'real life' situation. One night after a few (illegal) beers we went to a notorious cafe, where a fight broke out. Judo Dave's eyes lit up and he left his seat, facing the fighters. Some guy, unseen, took a chair and broke it across the back of Dave's head. He fell like a tree.
Go ahead, DJohn; sit in the corner. Put the gun on the table in front of you. Watch everyone's eyes and body language, Mr. Blackbelt in Life. If you're gonna be shot, you'll be shot.
I'm 70 Y/O.
I remember a time when things like this were rare.
Listen to THIS:
>>>>MOST OF US HAD GUNS EVEN BACK THEN!!
The following is what my post actually SHOULD HAVE SHOWED:
Some facts for you hysterical gun haters.
I'm 70 Y/O.
I remember a time when things like this were rare.
Listen to THIS:
>>>>MOST OF US HAD GUNS EVEN BACK THEN!!>>>>
OK, there are guns today.
We had guns back then.
Now, who has the courage to discuss what is truly different about those times?
So, as you might guess, I'm no fan of having guns around. Does that make me a hysterical gun hater?
BTW, did you know that there is a federal law that prevents the CDC to conduct research when it involves firearms? The CDC can perform research on methods for reducing non-intentional injuries and illnesses, such as those caused by the H1N1 virus, but when it comes down to reduce violent crimes involving guns, their hands are tied.
Mr. Beck, I bow to your experience and knowledge. And I apologize for my earlier post; I misread early reports saying that the shooter was in a "high rise" and assumed it was residential. I tied the whole thing to Mayor Dyer's conniving with the construction industry and his stupid ideas about bringing downtown Orlando back to life.
But wasn't it irritating when Dyer got on CNN and started praising the Orlando Police Department - whose forces he has reduced and whose equipment budget he has cut, in favor of his downtown "projects"?
Actually, it seems to be tied to the terrible unemployment problem and the death of American prosperity, at the hands of megacorporate America. And you'll see many more such vengeance killings in the future. And sadly, good law enforcement people will be caught in the crossfire between the unjust and those seeking bloody justice, who can't get it any other way.
That was an odd ramble. First, you are the believer. You "believe" that having a concealed gun prepares you for every eventuality. It doesn't. You "believe" that you can watch a whole room, or building, you can't.
And DJohn, I trained too. I was once armed 24/7 too. But I knew better than to "believe" that I could see everything. I couldn't. And I assure you, you can't. And really, back to the point of the comments, a concealed carry permit would have done you no good IN AN OFFICE. You cant CARRY THERE. You are not even allowed to leave it in your car. You would have to leave it at home. If he wanted to walk in and shoot you, he would have that opportunity by breaking the law. The point is, the mention of concealed carry, or the attempt to obscure the facts as they might apply wont work. Concealed carry would not have helped you. And like I said, you dont know that many of the victims did not already have a concealed carry status. Your comment was pure bombast.
Nothing I could write would top this succinct analysis. I agree.
If I'm trained, armed and ready, and the circumstances permit it, and I would be willing to return fire or preemptivly fire upon an assailant in order to preserve my life, I've increased my odds of survival, or the odds of someone else to survive, should a nut case come gunning around the office. By how much is academic if I happen to survive, or if I don't.
I don't care if the 'gun culture' created this mess. I don't sit around looking for an arson when the house is burning. I simply deal with the fire. Pretending it doesn't exist, or pretending we can disarm America is just silly nonsense. You don't disarm violent behavior, it's like trying to stop bread by banning toasters.
I don't presume that every scenario would allow the above to happen, nor do I feel ashamed or apologetic for stacking my particular deck.
What's also interesting in the whole gun debate issue, is that people tend to mix the issues of senseless violence and sensible violence. It is sensless to walk into an office and start shooting everyone. It's sensible to shoot down such a person as quickly as you can. If you don't make it, if you die trying, you've died with your boots on.
As far as being 'allowed' to carry, though I hold a permit for the sake of convienence, I've never much paid attention to such laws, as I've always been resonably certain that criminals of the sort wouldn't much pay attention either. If that upsets or scares anyone, I apologise for making you uncomfortable. I assure you you'll never see my firearm unless it's in a highly unlikely firefight, which means you won't even have to be upset or afraid in most cases.
Is it for everyone, of course not.
Is it paranoid to be armed? Sure it is, to a degree, given the odds of ever being in a situation to use the firearm in question.
On the other hand, I have it on good authority that paranoid people tend to live longer, "They" just don't want you to know that.
It is not unreasonable to have a concealed carry permit. It is unreasonable to believe or conjecture, or state that possession of the permit would prevent such an incident. DJohn made some absurd claim about his permit and how he would notice and dispatch anyone approach him with that intent. That was an absurdity. Any reasonable opposition to the over reliance on guns, and the misunderstanding of how guns can adequately be used is not an opposition to all guns.
The "banning bread" bit is rather ridiculous. To say that gun violence is just another form of violent behavior, and removing the guns is not worth an attempt is not a rational statement.
What fascinates me about the concept of gun use is that the immediacy of the effect is always ignored. A gun has a lethal potential that is unmatched for its speed, portability, and wide use. People imagine the effect of guns that has been imprinted on them by cowboy movies. Good guys duck, and squint, and bullets fly around them. Good guys point and shoot and hit their intended targets. Guns solve more problems than they create. Oh, and the really tasty myth, fighting a foe with a gun, and dying means "dying with your boots on." Whether you have boots on, or oxfords, or tennis shoes really wont matter. You will also have urine down your leg, feces in your pants, feces distributed throughout your abdomen by a bullet passing thru your intestine, the taste of iron as the blood rushes into your esophagus, pain, nausea, cold, searing heat, possible paralysis, all sorts of other things. But yes, maybe you will have boots on too. That's always nice.
You stated that my statement on bread was irrational. Of course it was, it was meant to be. I posit that it is just as irrational to think that bows, swords, knives, guns, nukes, flashlights and other forms of violence enhancement are anything more than tools incapable of creating anything themselves, or that by removing guns with some sort of all encompassing ban (should that even be possible) would have any impact at all on the character of violence. Yes, guns are handy tools of violence. Yes, they're probably one of the best, but they are, in the end, tools.
Chicago, which has some very tough handgun laws, some of the toughest in the country, has a very high level of gun violence. It also has suffered a spectacularly horrible beating to death with pipes and boards. I'll spare you the details of that, and how painful it must have been for the victim.
As for the idea that anyone could duck a bullet or use magical powers to deflect them, I'm not really in the category to believe that. I'm more of the "attempt to find cover and/or concealment, return fire" type, fully aware of the probablilty of getting killed when engaging someone in a 'gun fight,' to put it in the much disliked old west termage.
As for the very graphic death you portrayed, it would happen to a victim of a bullet wound either way. By 'with my boots on,' I mean of course dying fighting, rather than simply hiding and waiting for the mad shooter to find me and do the same thing. Either way I die, which sucks, but it's a matter of personal pride, and who knows. If he wastes more bullets on me out of rage or an attempt to eliminate a threat, thats less he has to use on others.
Besides, as I stated above, it's all a probablility game.
Thank you again for your response, I look forward to your response again, and I shall then take leave of your post so as to not become 'that guy.'
I dont' see the 'cowboy exit' as a myth, I see it as a slim possibity in a world that has many exits. Thank you again for responding. This will be my final post here. Really this time.