Well done! This is eye-opening and completely different from what we've all been told about universal health care. Everyone should read this. I hope the Editors find it. Many thanks.

Thank you for posting this. My nephew and his wife are visiting from Vancouver; they rave about their healthcare; my republican brother doesn't understand. rAted!

What a great article. As the republicans, and some blue dog democrats go on every T.V. show that will have them, and repeat the same lies about the health care in Canada and Briton, this is a breath of fresh air.I only wish you were a thousand people so this message could spread like a wildfire. Thank you for putting the health cost in perspective!!

Well said. One comment I would like to make, however, is that we can't call the cost of the procedures you listed in Canada as $0. They may not cost the consumer anything directly, but they DO cost us money through the taxpayer funded insurance we all cover. A recent study I saw showed those costs in Canada to be about half what they are in the US, per capita.

Canada is definitely cheaper for health care than the US, but it's not quite appropriate to say the total cost of your 5 days was $14 ... that was your out-of-pocket cost, but the actual cost is more than that.

YES! YES! YES! It makes me want to smack the morons who whine about socialism and the need to "figure it out for yourselves." I get so angry, and we need more of this sort of piece. Thanks, Blue!

I know, Lyle - but the press has completely ignored these differences. The US costs are billed items which are passed on to the insurance companies, IF..............you have insurance. As you know, 50 million here do not.

"Canada and the U.S. spend about the same on public health care – around 7 per cent of GDP according to the OECD. But in Canada public health care covers everyone and in the States it covers just one-third of the population. In fact, when you add in the costs of private care, Canada spends 10 per cent of GDP on health care and the U.S. spends 16 per cent. That's $2,500 less per capita – and in Canada everyone is covered!"

True, JK - but the population counts, in my mind (30M vs 300M) is one of the things that makes it much harder for the US. We'll do it though. I'm sure of it.

wow. thank you for sharing and writing this post.

I wrote this as a comparison of out of pocket expenses and didn't factor in the tax issue because when taxes are factored in studies have indicated that taxes are almost equal on both sides of the border. The remaining income after taxes in Canada are 82% and in the US it is 81.9%. In exchange for that .9% Canadians have the benefit of many social programs such as family allowance and health care.

I will send this to a friend in Phoenix (married to a doctor who goes on and on about the nightmare that is the Canadian health care system. Meanwhile, I have a good friend in Toronto who gives lie to my friend's assertions. And you've supplied further proof that she exemplifies the sort of mindless panic that some are spreading stateside.

Welcome to OS and thanks for jumping in here, Kimberley! You have a first-hand take that carries more weight than anything we've read in the press here.

I love how you and Kimberly worked together on this!

I once had to stay in the hospital for month, my mother had to pay for it out of her retirement savings, and if it weren't for her I would have also been homeless because I lost my job and my apartment during that time and was not able to graduate college. And the sad thing is that because I now have a disabling condition I probably won't ever be able to afford to take care of her when she needs it, the way she did for me. So my health problems affect her long-term ability to provide for herself. I don't think most people consider these hidden consequences to health problems - like whole families losing financial stability, homes, jobs, and opportunities for advanced education.

Very good. The American system will change. I don't know if will change this year or in subsequent years, but it will change. We can't continue this way much longer.

Beautiful. Thank you. What isn't made clear here though — and which, left unsaid, is what frightens Americans with congenital gummint-phobia — is that there isn't a single health care system in Canada run from a giant federal office somewhere in Ottawa.

Each of the 10 provinces has a Ministry of Health (or equivalent) that funds and administers provincial health insurance as it deems proper. The Minster of Health is an elected member of the provincial government and part of the cabinet. The Minister is thus responsible to the electorate, unlike U.S. state health department secretaries, who are appointed, not to mention private insurance company CEOs, who are responsible only to profit-seeking shareholders.

Canada does NOT have "socialized medicine" — it has socialized health insurance. Some provinces have modest annual premiums (the non-payment of which does not preclude receiving care); others are entirely funded through tax revenues.

Physicians, nurses and health professionals are not employees of the government, nor does the government own most hospitals and clinics. Provincial medical associations negotiate physician fees with the Ministry; the Ministry has a lot of leverage but does not dictate fees.

Once the fees are agreed, care decisions are between the physician and the patient. The job of health ministry bureaucrats is then just to support the minister in setting policy, funding education and research, monitoring public health issues, verifying compliance with the law, and paying bills submitted by physicians for patient care, which patients never see.

There are a handful of principles that apply nationwide (portability, universal access, etc.), but the feds in Canada fund only around 12-18% of the whole bill (maybe even less than that now).

And apparently it'll be a warm day on Baffin Island before any of these facts about the Canadian system inform the U.S. debate.

Thank you for writing this. As someone with lupus and no medical insurance (which truthfully hasn't been much different than when I had medical insurance as the insurance covered little and had high premiums and deductibles), I have been repeatedly astonished at what gets recited as "fact" in the news programs. A few weeks ago, Glen Beck made a statement that Canadians had to use a lottery to get health services

(Sorry, cat on keyboard led to premature posting.)

How people such as these are allowed on the air to spew lies is beyond me. I wish I could make your article a must-read for every ditto-head. However, I can Digg, Reddit, etc. so I can get the word out to as many people as possible.

I saw one of those TV ads for the first time when I was in Vegas and I nearly threw something at the screen. I could not believe the flat-out lies. At first I thought the woman who claims that she would have died of a brain tumour if she hadn't gone to the States for treatment -- no fees were ever mentioned of course -- was American, but it turns out she's a Canadian liar and shill. I literally could not believe it.

Anyone who is in imminent risk goes to the very top of the list. People have to wait for procedures such as hip replacements etc and that is not how the system was originally envisioned. But no one will lose their house or go bankrupt because they get sick. Certain drugs that are experimental or not approved here may have to be paid out of pocket, but that is true anywhere.

Those ads made me sick and I ranted about it at length as a couple of my roommates will attest.

should read: ranted about them

And thanks to extragent for explaining how a complicated system really works.

Thanks for posting this.

In addition to the insurance coverage issue, the cost of health care in the US is a huge problem.

I recently saw a TV program dealing with this, in which they devoted a segment to a California woman who needed an unspecified operation. Her local physician and hospital estimated that the cost would be above $170,000 USD.

She went to India and had it done in a hospital which appeared to be the equal of any US facility. The cost to her - $12, 700. Of course she also had travel and accommodation expenses, but I'm willing to bet they didn't make up the $157,300 difference.

Extragent - Your explanation takes it up a notch. Thank you.

You could save Baffin Island, you know, if you'd consider stirring the pot on HuffPost, NYT, and other high profile publications. These facts need to be heard and understood by many more than are reading here.

Emma,

"I could not believe the flat-out lies. At first I thought the woman who claims that she would have died of a brain tumour if she hadn't gone to the States for treatment -- no fees were ever mentioned of course -- was American, but it turns out she's a Canadian liar and shill. I literally could not believe it."

Makes me wonder how much she got paid to set that up? We can only guess by whom. It's amazing the lengths the Oppositionists and the No-Party are going to try and stop Health Care Reform, isn't it?

Short, sweet and to the point. I am an American who favors a single-payer healthcare system. JEEZ, what are we afraid of???!!! Are US people simply very gullible when they see the fear-mongering ads from the Insurance Industry. What you've shown us, after all is said and done, is that Canadians are a great deal SMARTER than US persons. "In a democracy, people get the leadership they deserve, and we don't deserve very good leaders." (Apologies to comedian Bill Maher.) It's true at every level.

I just had this discussion with a friend who is recovering from cancer. She thinks/believes that if America had universal healthcare, she would not have been taken care of immediately. She's under the assumption that there is much waiting involved in Canada's healthcare system.

I am very much for universal healthcare, but I do wonder: what problems do Canadians feel that their system has?

Oh, and for those of us that just found your blog and want to share this on facebook and such, it would be great if there was a little introduction of you both at the beginning of the post. Thanks!

A number of close friends of mine have had cancer and without exception they were treated quickly for their various illnesses. Some survived, and some didn't, but lack of immediate, effective care was never a factor.

Living near an urban centre helps of course, but here is the number one thing all of us can do to help ourselves: take care of ourselves and go to the doctor quickly if you suspect that something is wrong.
No one knows our bodies better than we do.

There are problems with waiting lists for elective surgeries but some of those claims are greatly exaggerated, too. I had elective surgery a few years ago and my operation was cancelled once because the doctor had an emergency, but it immediately rescheduled and went ahead two weeks later without a problem.

NO system is perfect, and with a right-wing federal government in power, there have been cutbacks (also provincially) but that is the same as every other western nation with a huge, and aging boomer population.

wait a minute... don't want to mess with the "merikan profit motive!
we are so stupid here as a general population that we believe all the
crap spewed by those who stand to not quite make as much money

Exactly so! I pay over $8000 dollars a year just to have substandard health care here in the US. When someone speaks to me about taxes or long waits (which I have experienced here in the US on a repeated basis), I laugh hollowly. I'm certain I'll never be paying $8000 in taxes for single payer, if it should exist. I'm certain I'll never be paying $8000 plus another $15,000 PER PERSON should I exceed my health care because of a bad health problem. But unfortunately, the insurance companies OWN the politicians here. Most politicians are the insurance companies' bitches. Including, I'm sad to say, our new President. Alas.

So, single payer will never happen and now, if we don't have health insurance, guess what? We can be fined. Amazing. Sometimes I wonder what would happen if the majority of the US citizens just said, 'Fuck you' and stopped buy the product. It's crossed my mind.

Ok, Screen Name Unavailable, you and Bill Maher need to back up with that retort:

"What you've shown us, after all is said and done, is that Canadians are a great deal SMARTER than US persons."

Add 300 million people to your general census and see if the problem is so easily solved. Three hundred million more.

So, when we finally DO get universal Health Care in this country, what you're saying is that we, the US, then will be smarter because we will have overcome greater obstacles? Cool. ;)

@Wayne

Last year I read an article saying that if you go to India for medical care you are more likely to have a British or American trained doctor than if you have the same treatment in Britain or America.

Blue, great job on this post. I have a huge request of you, a sort of follow-up to this one. I'd love to see you fully address the objection most of the conservatives I know--the old lie about Canadians having long waits and being denied care. That's the lie being pushed, and I'd love to see you answer. (Understand, I'm one American who's utterly in support of single payer. I would be thrilled to pump my $8000 plus per year into a system like yours if only I and others could get care like yours.)

GeeBee - If you go across the border in to Mexico, you'll find the exact medications by the same manufacturers (that are all sold in pharmacies across the US) for a fraction of the cost.

OPM (Other People's Money): Charge Americans ten times more at home so pharma can use that capital (instead of their net profits) to subsidize "developing" countries.

Dayna,

I'm afraid I can't do a follow-up about those supposed waits. My input on this piece was from the US standpoint.

I believe emma addressed that issue in one of her comments, as did Kimberley in her numerous illustrations in the post.

"Anyone who is in imminent risk goes to the very top of the list."

What I can add from the US side, though, is that there have been many times that I have had to wait several weeks and sometimes months to see a specialist (orthopedic).

I'm always suspicious of the phrase "keep healthcare costs down" as used politically these days. It would be nice if the politicians meant keeping costs down for citizens but I'm afraid they mean limiting care to what some overseer considers efficacious. As someone who responds to everything unusually, it scares me that healthcare might be d0led out on the basis of what works for the majority.

Just a note, as others have mentioned, our Canadian health care is not 'free'. However, the cost is spread across the entire population and across any individual's lifetime, since it is covered thru taxes. That means no patient gets a bill for thousands of dollars - and everyone is covered regardless of pre-existing conditions, etc.

It's been mentioned that the American population is much greater than ours and so it wouldn't be as simple as all that to provide universal single-payer coverage. I'm not quite sure why - same system, larger scale, why wouldn't that work? And, as also mentioned, some money comes from the feds here, but the direction of the money to health care is done by the provinces (under some federal conditions). So, in the U.S., the individual states could direct the distribution of the money - I don't see the problem (ignoring for this discussion the fact that some of the states are run by people like Jindal).

The system you currently have is very complicated - inplementing something resembling our system would surely streamline things.

Hopefully what seems clearly to be the will of the population will prevail over the machinations of the congress and house.

I'm glad Cdns here are speaking up to make clear how the costs are not in fact zero. It isn't good for Cdns to think while they're getting care they're somehow getting care for free--makes them more passive and grateful than is good for them to be.

My guess is that US is on the move toward full-care, regardless of how it goes the next couple months. Once Obama is more the war-president, it'll get done. What indeed is ahead for Canada, I wonder?

Very Well Said!!

Thank you for posting this :)

Great post!

Patrick McEvoy-Halston,-

"My guess is that US is on the move toward full-care, regardless of how it goes the next couple months. Once Obama is more the war-president, it'll get done. What indeed is ahead for Canada, I wonder?"

I'm with you on that, Patrick. It seems to be different this time with so many more on board than ever before.

What's ahead for Canada? The only thing I know for sure is that 'the recession' is over there, or so they've announced recently.

This can't be true. I know from watching Fox News that Canada is a dystopian, corpse-strewn hellscape. People above a certain age are euthanised there because the overburdened , communistic health care system can't be bothered treating them, and their corpses are processed into food for the younger, still healthy segments of the population. There's a certain remorseless logic to eating the old rather than caring for them, but surely you wouldn't want America to go that route?

nanatehay - Yes, I've also heard that Canadians eat their young as well in an attempt at controlling recalcitrant behavior in the pubescent years. It's working as the drop-out rate in every high-school in every province has been reduced to zero. Who can complain about those statistics?

Why is it that I feel this overwhelming urge to link Swift's "A Modest Proposal?"

This is probably the most important post I have read on OS. You are absolutely correct in your analysis-being a fellow Canadian I should know. Excellent, Excellent, Post!!!!!!!!!!

Just to reiterate once more -- the $ amounts listed above were amounts that we had to pay directly for services out of our pockets.

Thank you to everyone for the feedback. Its important to debunk the myths being created via the media by vested interests. Discussion is always welcome and essential, but the facts should always be on the table --- the commercials I have seen air do not represent Canadian health care in an honest, up front fashion. Anything less is a disservice to the decision making process.

My costs, listed for the US, were 80% covered insurance. The co-pays are all out-of-pocket as are the monthly premiums.

Many families pay $800.00 to $1000.00 per month in premiums.

Our hostess mentioned buying drugs from Mexico.

I buy my meds from an Indian Pharmacy - http://www.squaremeds.com/
I recently bought
BACTRIM 410/90 mg (100 tabs) $7.99 - price at Drugstore.com $126.69
GLYCERYL TNT 500 mcg (30 tabs) $4.99 - price at rx-med.net $22.88

Shipping cost were low, and cheapest shipping took eight days.They have excellent customer service at a 1-800 number (girl I spoke with had an American accent) and you can order online or by phone.
Although both the drugs I bought would require a prescription in the states, none was required there.

Excellent post. Thanks. Unfortunately our (US) politicians too often ascribe to the theory, "Please don't confuse me with the facts."

Monte

Monte, you're right, but that mentality is slowing fading, don't you think?

Blue Roses,

You wrote “but the population counts, in my mind (30M vs 300M) is one of the things that makes it much harder for the US”

I’m going to give you some points to consider that run counter to that argument. I volunteer to be on the board of an alliance of local hospitals, and can tell you that lack of population actually is a bigger problem than greater population.

Example 1: We have to run and staff 4 emergency departments at 4 hospitals (because of the geography covered) 24/7. These departments sit idle for most of the nights shifts because of population density and this severely impacts the cost per patient in a negative way.

Example 2: We have to keep a minimum supply of drugs on site for obvious reasons. Many drugs have life spans. Due to smaller populations the chances of using some drugs before their expiry is decreased and the cost per patient treatment goes up.

Example 3: The unit cost of supplies goes down with volume purchases. This was one of reasons why we formed the alliance amongst the local hospitals. Higher patient density equals lower cost of supplies.

I could go on with other examples, but I think you get the point.

Thank you, thank you, thank you! I'm tired of the same murderous (in that they cost real lives) lies told by the big insurance and pharmaceutical companies and their legislative cronies. We need to DEMAND full no-cost or low-cost health care for all individuals living in the United States of America. Period. I'm so angry at all this balking--it is literally killing people.

@JK Brady,

If the US system is so great, why isn't the world beating a path to your doorstep to implement the same?

Why indeed. Not only isn't the world beating a path to the U.S. doorstep to implement an American-style system, but Canada and the UK (if not other countries) have had public demonstrations against anything that smacks of an American-style system, especially its costs and inequalities.

Your question points out a key fact, but one that is easily dismissed by recurring to American Exceptionalism (cf. isolationism): the U.S., having been "settled" differently and being geographically removed from the rest of the world by two oceans (excluding, ahem, Canada and Mexico), is so essentially "unique" that it must evolve a health care system specific to its circumstances. Other countries, the reasoning goes, can't transplant it to suit their circumstances, just as the U.S. can't import "foreign" systems and expect them to work.

Strange but true. Here's something even stranger:

The term "single-payer system" was coined in the late 1980s by American health care reform advocates to replace "Canadian-style system" and thereby eliminate the "foreign" reference to calm American xenophobia. Right-wing opponents had been zeroing in on the reference to Canada to discredit the model.

I've had Canadians ask me what exactly a single-payer system is, not realizing that it's a term progressive Americans devised to describe the Canadian model without mentioning Canada.

Excellent.

Why isn't this on the cover?

Thank you, emma peel, Kimberley and Linda, and everyone else that has added to this discussion. I feel that I have a much greater knowledge of Canadian healthcare. I was already a supporter of universal healthcare, but this post and the comments have given me more information to back up my beliefs. Thanks!

@ Wayne Gallant - What's interesting is that in the past month, I've received 20 or more email solicitations from Canadian pharmas offering up to 90% discounts. Now, that's even cheaper than Mexican prices. How can they offer this? I've checked out the companies and they 'appear' legit.

@ SirenitaLake,

"As someone who responds to everything unusually, it scares me that healthcare might be d0led out on the basis of what works for the majority."

I'm afraid that's already happening in the US. Physicians bill everyone based on what Medicare will pay - at least that's been my observation, however limited.

The billing companies know that insurance companies will only pay a percentage forcing them discount the original amount after payment. Example: An orthopedic surgeon billed my insurance company $450.00 for a little boot several months ago. $450.00.......When I questioned them about it, they said, "Oh, we know they won't pay, but in order to get 100% payment, the price has to be inflated."

They get paid 100%, the consumer is billed a discounted difference. Go figure.

So, how do we know in the US what the REAL costs are?

@ Renaissance Lady,

"A few weeks ago, Glen Beck made a statement that Canadians had to use a lottery to get health services."

Glen Beck is an idiot. I wonder if there is a place for Americans to apologize for commentators of his ilk? If so, I'll be the first. Bleh.

My fondest hope is that some of the Republican and Blue Dog clowns making their idiotic claims about health care lose their health insurance and have to go through what many in the US go through on a daily basis. I suspect that would do wonderful things to concetrate their minds in favor of universal health care a la our friends up north.

Excellent points by J.K. Brady (the rest of the world copies all sorts of American things that people like - but not the health-care system) and MarktheCanuck, pointing out that (and how) small populations are more likely to make a health-care system more expensive than trying to cover large and (if I may say) dense populations...

@odetteroulette,

"Exactly so! I pay over $8000 dollars a year just to have substandard health care here in the US. When someone speaks to me about taxes or long waits (which I have experienced here in the US on a repeated basis), I laugh hollowly. I'm certain I'll never be paying $8000 in taxes for single payer, if it should exist. I'm certain I'll never be paying $8000 plus another $15,000 PER PERSON should I exceed my health care because of a bad health problem. "

What I'm hearing ( and may be totally wrong) is that the cost to each will edge toward 12% of your annual income. Most already pay 10% or more in premiums, so what's another 2% for full care?

For many of us in the US, it will be like getting a raise......

Thank you for this. It is imperative that Americans see such first hand information laid out clearly. If only CNN would broadcast this...wait...if you put it on Twitter we might have a shot.

@ Asta,

"Thank you for this. It is imperative that Americans see such first hand information laid out clearly. If only CNN would broadcast this...wait...if you put it on Twitter we might have a shot."

This piece, written intially by Kimberley R and without the US figures, has been linked and/or sent to multiple news agencies.

The last time I checked there were over 800 views.

Gwendolyn,

Thank you for coming back on this piece. The main focus is getting the word out about the true costs/expenses incurred by two real people in both countries. It's an attempt to dislodge the propaganda and oftentimes, untruths.

Perhaps Americans think a "single-payer" system will simply be a an expansion of Medicare and Medicaid. That would be a nightmare. I think the whole pay for coding has to go. The partnership system of doctors leads to physicians looking at how many codes and procedures they can bill in order to increase their income. Medicare/Medicaid tries to keep costs low by negotiating costs per code or limiting the number of codes. The paperwork is a nightmare. While the Mayo Clinic in the US has a salary system for their physicians, and they have a low cost/high quality hospital that can hardly be beat in the US. The entire philosphy of providing health care in the US has to be rethought before we can be successful with universal health care and improving the quality of care.

Good comparison. However, you need to include the income taxes one would pay to get access to the "free" service in Canada. I did a similar comparaison about two months ago. I focused on a hospital visit for someone with medical insurance, without medical insurance and someone who shows at the hospital under the Canadian Universal health care system:

Let's Compare Public and Private Health Care Costs, Eh?/a>

Kanuk,

Thanks for linking to your posts. Those figures there are staggering as well. Putting the numbers side-by-side makes a huge difference.

BR

@ Kanuk - excellent article. Thank you.

I find the tax comparison in general terms a little misleading in the media. When a straight comparison is done of across the board income-after-taxes comparison there is little difference between the US and Canada (.09%) Its the distribution of tax dollars that differs between the two countries, and I would guess confidently that the US has a much larger military budget for example. That said -- your figures still indicate the cost of universal health care results in dollars saved and health care delivered. How can that be a bad thing, right? :)

Hey Kimberly, well put. As a Canadian, living in the Baton Rouge area of Louisiana for the last six years, I can give you a few current bills that I have received starting with the cost of our own health care. Our plan costs us in premiums, $15,660.00 a year, we have a co pay of anywhere from 25 to 75 dollars, we have an initial deductible of $500.00 and then we have another deductible that goes to $5000.00 per year. THAT is without anything major happaning. A 12 minute visit to my ENT and my insurance was billed AND PAID $1100.00. Before I left Canada, I was hospitalized for 8 weeks. I had a spontaneous dissection of my left carotid artery. I was immediately shipped to a major neurological centre, I had 3 neurologists and 2 neurosugeaons. It didnt cost me a dime. What Americans fail to understand or acknowledge about the Canadian System is that first of all, it is NOT socialized medicine, everyone pays and what you pay is geared to your income or alternatively employers pay for it. An example would be if a double working family with 3 kids were paying for there own, it may cost them 4 thousand a year but a working single mom making less salary, would pay maybe 1 thousand, in both cases, that is only if the employer isnt paying. The other thing is that Canada does have a single payer system so some think that you get told what to do and who to see, they do not realize that the 'insurance' in Canada ONLY pays bills, nothing is ever pre approved, your health is between you and your doctor NOT the insurer which in Canada's case is each Province.

The BIGGEST problem in the States is as a result of the various lobbies, they own the politicians that are voting against any form of Reform, not that they take money into their pockets per say but the way the Lobby works here is that they put MILLIONS into the campaigns of these so called 'people's representatives' and they defeat what a true democracy is all about.

Anorther problem here, I use Advair and did in Canada also. Same drug, same maufacturer, same container, same packaging, $65.00 in Canada and $265 PLUS a fifty dollar co pay here. Something that no one is talking about aside from hospitals that chagre $10.00 for an aspirin, are what doctors charge and is a reason for the docotr shortage in Canada. Canadian trained docotrs are heading for the States where "Do no harm" seems to have been taken out of the hypocratic oath, isnt harm when u tell someone without insurance that you will not treat them unless they give a $250.00 deposit?? I swear that is posted in most of the doctors offices that I see. An ENT getting $1150.00 for a 12 minute appointment? Yep, all of this is personal experience along with, 4 days in hospital bringing own drugs??? $168,000.00.

My husband and I have decided, once he retires, we will be returning to Canada, we will be more than happy to spend our retirement income in a place that cares for its citizens. Where good health is a right, not a priveledge.

Thanks, Blue Roses, Kimberly and Deborah!

I am glad that you enjoyed the article. I also wrote a few others that cover the topics Deborah discussed above. They are called “Health Care Comparison Parts I, Ia, and II.” Based on my experience, I actually paid more taxes (income and sales) in Canada than here (see Part I). Even with this difference, I still prefer by far the health care system up north, although it is not perfect. In any case, got to go back finishing writing academic papers…

@Myriad,

Regarding US vs Canada population differential:

"So, in the U.S., the individual states could direct the distribution of the money - I don't see the problem (ignoring for this discussion the fact that some of the states are run by people like Jindal).

The system you currently have is very complicated - inplementing something resembling our system would surely streamline things."

The problem comes when 33 out of 50 states plan to invoke the 10th Amendment to our Constitution if the plan that is finally devised at the federal level does not suit *their* liking. Many have already passed bills such as Oklahoma (leader of the pack), NH and Georgia for starters.

It may be an exercise in chain-rattling, but they have every intention of stifling this reform.

In my state, the infamous Governor Rick Perry who is right in the middle of that opposition, does not speak for me. How can any of these governors usurp the wont of millions within their constituencies? It's split here as surely it must be in all 33 of those oppositionist states. It's a mess.

I've been asked to bump this again, given the flurry of more misinformation in the press.

Correction: It seems there may be a problem in Denmark. I had shoulder surgery in January of this year - 9 months ago. My insurance company was billed $37,000.00 and has just recently notified me that they paid $1000.00 on that bill. My part? $800.00.

Notice from the drs office is that they 'wrote off' the $36,000.00. Now, there is a whole lot wrong with this picture, but the main thing is that the billing office, nor the doctor have any record of the initial $37,000.00 bills sent out in January.

Huh?

I know these things because I've gotten written statements. Who benefits by this atrocious over-billing and how? Isn't it enough to gouge the patient with the bill? Taking that write off filters even more benefits.

Mine is just one case. One.