
The glib answer, of course, is that we do the same thing that we do for Hanukah and Eid. However, in my role as resident atheist, I think the question deserves a fuller answer. (I may not play an atheist on TV, but I do guest lecture as the area's proto-atheist in my friend and colleague Sue Carter's "Religion and the Media" class.)
The first challenge in dealing with non-believers is to distinguish between atheists, agnostics and those who are just too lazy to go to church (synagogue or mosque). There is now a spectrum of freethinkers who fall somewhere between the belligerently anti-clerical Christopher ("God Is Not Great") Hitchens, the cerebral Richard ("The Evolution of God") Wright (seen debating each other on the New York Times site) and the Brights, friendly folk who define themselves as naturalistic, free of supernatural and mystical elements, by which they mean "no god" but without being nasty about it.I personally embrace the term ignostic, which means I don't know whether I believe as you do until you define what you mean by god. If by god you mean Bart Stupak or Mike Huckabee's white-bearded white guy who will smite you if you fail to follow outdated rules written thousands of years ago in a sexist, homophobic and racist agricultural culture somewhere in the Middle East, then consider me a fire-breathing atheist in response. But if you mean the warm and welcoming spirituality of a Deepak Chopra, we can talk.
Bill O'Reilly may think there's a war on Christmas, but I find the season tests even the most charitable ignostic.
It was the Salvation Army bell-ringers who drove my mother over the top. We could not pass one without her ranting about how evil it is to make drunks listen to sermons before feeding them. (I assume she had her father/my granddad in mind. Both of us had little doubt our always-inebriated patriarch would starve on the street before pretending to pray just to eat.)
My biggest frustration as a religion-less child was finding that Christmas Eve ushered in two solid days of bad TV. A television-addicted child of the Fifties, I would look forward to the two weeks free of school as a chance to hunker down in front of the old Philco, only to find all three networks began showing Catholic masses on Christmas Eve. Isn't this America? Land of the free?
I spent my youth pointedly refusing to add the words "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance after Eisenhower inserted them. I was the heathen youngster banished to the hallway each morning when the principal in my rural Ohio school would defy the Supreme Court ban on school prayer by reciting from the Bible over the PA. ("Bonnie will now leave the classroom because SHE and her family doesn't believe in God," he would intone each morning.) But allowing the networks to blizzard me with religious propaganda crossed a line that supposedly objective newscasters still blur. (You know who you are, CNN's Don Lemon.)
I watched my parents wrestle with the issue of whether to buy a Christmas tree. Brotherhood bush?
Yet I must admit to experiencing a sense of joy one Christmas Eve when I joined my friend Karen and her family at the local Unitarian Church's midnight celebration. The church was filled with blazing candles and hundreds of red and white poinsettias, and the enlightened minister thankfully never said anything about any god. Do Unitarian-Universalists qualify as real Christians in the eyes of a Pat Robertson or Pat Boone?
The period around the winter solstice is a great time for a festive celebration to remind us that spring will come someday (unless global warming triggers a new ice age). Even the imperial Romans shed their togas and boogied down with their slaves during the week-long holiday called Saturnalia, which was already a hand-me-down from earlier cultures. Today's pagans still dance naked and burn money. (Not as appealing since the advent of my middle-age paunch.) Seinfeld inspired the new holiday Festivus, with its aluminum pole (as our own Rico Tom Rico recounts in his re-gifting of "A Holiday Tale Retold").
But rather than take up arms against Christmas cheer, perhaps it is time for me to mellow and go with the flow. At least until I run into a bell-ringer or a Sarah Palin end-timer.
Ho, ho, ho and a happy Kwanzaa to you.


Salon.com
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fCNvZqpa-7Q
Happy Winter Holidays
The one thing that both sides do have in common though, is they are both equally scared out of their wits to confess the phrase "I don't know"...of course, by aknowledging "I don't know" we go from Atheist to agnostic, but that's another story...
Ah. too complicated! LOL
As for what we do on christmas. My family is geting together, having a big meal, opening a few gifts, then watching football like darn near everyone else. We just won't be going to church or praying over our meal or any of that mystical stuff
P.S. - good rant, rated.
I enjoyed this. xoxo
…I must say I rather enjoyed the I personally embrace the term ignostic, which means I don't know whether I believe as you do until you define what you mean by god.
Great way to put that sentiment…that often comes to agnostics from atheists in a less reasonable form.
I like the real question is: What is the true nature of the Reality of existence?
Variations…or refinements of that are: Are there any possibilities that should be ruled out by the evidence we have available to us? (Based on the evidence available: Is the existence of a God of any kind impossible? Is the existence of a God a necessity? Is the existence of gods…more or less reasonable than the existence of a GOD…or of the non-existence of any gods?
The “believing” part of your post I simply cannot deal with in that form. My opinion is that when an atheist or a theist use the words “belief” or “believe”…they are, for the most part, expressing a blind guess about the Reality of existence.
If, for instance, your sentence “I personally embrace the term ignostic, which means I don't know whether I believe as you do until you define what you mean by god.”…
…had been written, “….I don’t know whether I blindly guess the same thing you blindly guess unless you define one of the words in your blind guess…
…it would have more meaning for me.
Thanks for this excellent post.
Not really sure what athiests do...but for THIS PARTICULAR AGNOSTIC...
...I try to enjoy the day as much as possible.
Merry Christmas everyone.
As to your other question about Unitarian Universalists, the answer is no, hardly any right-wing theocrats think we're Christians. (So what, eh.) For the most part, they're right, since U-Uism is non-dogmatic and stresses the individual search for truth--a minority identify as Christian, both U's did in fact originate as Christian faiths, but most UU's don't identify as such now. Best working definition I've heard recently: "UU's are atheists with children." (like me, and as a backslid UU I'm pretty far gone to Hell.)
Have a happy whatever.
A few corrections:
…that often comes to agnostics from atheists in a less reasonable form should have read: “…which often come to agnostics from…”
I like the real question should have read: “I think the real question…”
…when an atheist or a theist use the words… should have been: “…when an atheist or theist uses the…”
You're still missing the point here. You need to define God or Gods to determine someone's belief or understanding of those entities. Are we talking about the Judeo-Christian God of judgement as described in The Bible (as most people do), or are we talking about the Greco-Roman idea of Gods, which represent ideas of love, faith,the sea, etc, or are we talking about the Pagan idea of "life force" that exists within each and every living entity from a tree to an ant to a gorilla to a human? WHAT God or Gods are Atheists or deists NOT supposed to believe in? MOST Atheists reject the idea of the Judeo-Christian God of judgment, the caucasian human being sitting on a white ivory chair in the sky condemning gays and heathens to hell.
Now, if Jews, Christians Muslims, and each denomination within a given religion could agree on what exaclty God IS, then we can talk about "believer" vs "Non-believer", but there ISNT that unifying definition, so, yes, contrary to your previous statements, you DO have to define God or Gods
Part 2- In Summary, when Rick Warren and Gay Episcopalian Bishop Gene Robinson can sit across the table from Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens and discuss Theism vs Atheism, without Rick and Gene arguing between themselves first, THEN we have a real debate
But atheist means to have no gods…to have no gods of any kind. It is a rather pro-active designation. (Yes, I realize that some agnostics who want to consider themselves atheists for whatever reason, use the term weak-atheists to denote something else…but “atheist” means…to have no gods.)
If what you actually are saying is that you do not “believe” in the god of the Bible…why not just say that. Why call yourself an atheist just because you can make an intelligent and well-reasoned guess about that pathetic excuse of a god.
If you truly do not know if there is a GOD…in whatever form, meaning, or definition that can exist…why not simply call yourself an agnostic...so that the confusion over what you are saying is lessened?
The God that dwells within you is.....consciousness. No humans = no God because God then has no place to dwell.
The animalists amongst us will complain that animals have God too and to an extent that's true - each animal contains as much of the God spark as that animal is able to hold.
We meat robots, with our consciousness, are able to hold as much of the deity as we are able to understand.
Put me down, then, as a someone who does not believe in any of the contesting versions of religion that we have around here, ascribing instead to the idea that God didn't create the universe: we created God in our own image and then proceeded to bow down to worship the God we created, which is self-worship - the worst kind of idolatry.
Was this too abstruse, and did I even use that word correctly. I used re-surfaced after an hour long meditation so I'm a little groggy.
I meant:
When Moses met the Burning Bush, the Burning Bush said that Moses was to TELL THE PEOPLE THAT HE HAD BEEN SENT BY THE GOD WHO SAYS , "I am the God that dwells within you" which is a more accurate translation than "I am that I am."
I meant:
When Moses met the Burning Bush, the Burning Bush said that Moses was to TELL THE PEOPLE THAT HE HAD BEEN SENT BY THE GOD WHO SAYS , "I am the God that dwells within you" which is a more accurate translation than "I am that I am."
Are you kidding? They don't even think Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians and certainly not Catholics are "real Christians". Hell, I don't even think that either Pat would say that the other Pat is a "real Christian".
I suppose it is a social convention. When someone in the majority Judeo-Christian world says they do not believe in God, it should be understood that we do not believe in the Judeo-Christian world, because the majority of Judeo-Christian society scoffs at the mere idea of any other definition of "God". The same thing goes if I were living in a majority Muslim country, if I said I did not believe in "Allah", they would assume I meant their God. If I lived In Israel, same thing. It is a cultural understanding that when an Atheist in America says they do not believe in God, they are referring to that God, *OR*, as someone like me, also the rejection of Organized Religion as well as the non-belief in a Judeo-Christian God of Judgment. But, when you include the possibility of "God(S)", ie entities that are not defined by the Abrahamic Tradition, then we have a totally different conversation about what I believe. And, I only speak for myself. Hutchens and Dawkins are idiots, and do not represent me
I'm a bit more on the pagan side of life but still have cringe-worthy sensations every holiday when the religious grandstanding and saturation-sick media bombardment begins.
I mean, truthfully, how does one find a decent holiday nowadays? I'm not sure how its done. Its certainly not through a barrage of gifts - which just means more shit to junk up this earth. It's not in the media-made, faux-families that are christmas card perfect...that don't exist. So where is it?
I think its somewhere simple and quiet...wherever that may be.
The problem is that 95% of the population is celebrating Christmas and to think someone can ignore the world enjoying the season will only leave a person frustrated. In any civilization there are those who will feel infringed on at some point in time. At least in this country for the most part people are free to do what they want, but one should not expect the rest of the world to worry about how their celebrating will offend the few who are not celebrating.
I imagine that they have an open choice. My friend who is an atheist enjoys his three day vacation.
I’m not one and I work in US so I go to Church in my one day vacation. If I had three days off, I’d spend the other two trying to organize the house. I wouldn’t believe in god I’d still put a tree up, the expression on my children’s eyes in the morning is priceless…
@neilpaul
I thought you gotta read it in the globe to be true :)
@Placebodstudman
One thing to which all religions agree on when it comes to God: the Supreme Being is beyond human comprehension – otherwise it’ll be just some human contraption or another man among us. This is why you can reason on the subject as much as you like , you are still not going to find the answer you are looking for.
It's no accident that the holiday has turned secular, just as Western society has. It is fairly easy to get through the season celebrating the traditions at the far end of the Jesus spectrum. Hell, that's how I grew up.
I actually have my religion professor to thank for curing me of that ick-feeling that used to come over me when my kid talked about Jesus or someone brought up those topics with me. I can actually explain the idea of Christmas from a religious perspective without even feeling like a big, fat liar. Well, I'm a little bit fatter now, what with all the Christmas cookies, but you know what I mean.
Also, guys, the Mike Huckabee God is not The God of the Christians but just one flavor of God. There are all kinds of Christians who see things differently. (See Marcus Borg)
Frank has an interesting idea about agnostics versus atheists. I have always considered myself an atheist. Science-based and sure that there is no God. But if I'm really as science-based as I think, then I have to admit that I don't know what happens after we die. I can't know, just like I can't know if there is a God or not, which would technically make me an agnostic. I just don't really feel like one. :P
My favorite Christmas-themed plastic fantastic for the lawn: - a big puffy neon Santa in full regalia (hat on too) kneeling at the crib on the baby Jesus. This was in Houston.
I am saddened also that your memories of your “patriarch” is so dire as to say “always inebriated”. How bitter. How hopeless. It’s no wonder you are ig/agnostic. I am so sorry. Merry Christmas….
Now, I'm a Christian again, but not the Jerry Falwell-let's kill abortion doctors-and ban gays from existing kind of Christian. My beef is that we're all lumped into the same pool with all the haters.
I have much more in common with you and the rest of the folks that commented on this post than I'll ever have with the likes of Pat Robinson.
I find it quite silly when an organization whose ideology or theology is based on a very specific tenet, gets scrutinized by unbelievers who fail to grasp that the reason millions of downtrodden people of all persuasions get fed and housed and cared for is that same theology.
For anybody to object to that fine and benevolent organization’s decision to not “offer benefits to same-sex partners” is deceiving. You make it sound like they wouldn’t feed or house troubled homeless gays. Nothing could be further from the truth. Thank goodness for them somebody puts God first.
Hey Truly, I love the fact that you give gifts because of the “American” experience. Even Christian tradition has influenced atheist culture. The reason for the American/Western tradition of giving gifts on Christmas was to express our gratitude “For God so loved the world that He “GAVE” His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe on Him would not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16
It’s about THE GIFT!!! Merry Christmas!!!
Frogtown, Jerry is long dead and he doesn't need me carrying his water, but I can say with all confidence that he never wanted an abortion doctor killed. I would like you to show otherwise. Merry Christmas!!!