Wow. While I am a fervent proponent of health care reform, I don't think I'd go that far, Brie.

I would.

I've made it my mission to try and understand the opposing point of view. I've spent this past presidential election debating the issues with my right leaning friends and family.

My conclusion is that their mantra is "me, me and me."

You can't change that mindset. I've tried.

Wow, your header sure got my attention. And your post did too. But from your comment to High Lonesome I would surmise you to be a well intentioned person who is frustrated. Either that or you're just so arrogant that you would make such a patently false statement based on frustration. Liberals "fundamentally" better? No, I don't think so even though I'm damn liberal I don't perceive myself as fundamentally better than anyone (oh and by the way that's a pretty good basic criteria for a liberal--not perceiving themselves as better). Hopefully, when your frustration cools, your attitude will moderate as well. Until then, take a chill pill Brie. Be charitable to everyone and to their viewpoint. Don't judge the person by the opinion. Everyone's fecal matter is malodorous.

I think your title and your post give an excellent example of the very thing you accuse conservatives of. Sad...infinitely sad.

As far as the labels go, liberals aren't better, but they are smarter than conservatives. However, most calling themselves conservatives aren't, and have little idea of its principles and intent. If they did, they'd realize they are exactly what conservatism rejects. They are right wingers, and yes, being less than mentally whippy is a requirement for membership. They believe and repeat the lies they are told, and aren't worth arguing with.
I can back the above up from here to history passed, so it's not a un thought line of reasoning. They really are not very bright, politically and often generally speaking.
You're doing the right thing, Brie.

I agree! While the majority of churchgoers are conservatives,so are the majority of hypocrites. Look it up?

If you can't judge people by what they say, what they think and what they do, then what's left?

I'm very tolerant by nature, but this emerging self rightous, self centered attitude is too much.

"what's best for me" is not a tenet of good and decent people

Torman, Look up the word fundamental.

Paul @ Scanner, Thank you.

Paul, You're right. True conservatives they're not. But they're too stupid to know the difference.

You couldn't say any better.

A question for conservatives.

If you are so kind and caring, then tell us one thing you have done since 1980 with humanity's best interest at heart?

Because, from where I'm sitting, you have spent that time blaming all of the nation's problems on its weakest, most powerless citizens. Women, Gays, Blacks, etc... You have gone out of your way to pull the rug out from under senior citizens, children and the middle class. Anything meant to help the average citizen is scoffed at and ridiculed - take the health care debate for example. You hate abortion but cut programs for needy children. You claim to be *snicker* fiscally conservative - yet blow money like drunken sailors. Speaking of sailors, I scratch my head that so many military personnel tend to be conservative - do they forget that their salaries are paid in part with MY tax dollars? Taxes! Taxes! Taxes! Taxes! Taxes! Taxes! Taxes!

What about taxes? Are you saying that you'd rather haul your own trash to the landfill and do your own fixing of pot holes, etc.?

So then, if we're so full of shit about conservatives, then prove us wrong!

You have had the past 30 years and you haven't one positive thing to show for it.

Unfortunately, when you make a comment like this, you sound like the same kind of narrow-minded person that you say they are. Doesn't help your case.

Brie made a brave statement. Maybe it's true, and maybe it isn't. I am inclined to think it is closer to true than it is not. But I dont think it is as bad as so many are saying.

My personal view is that the only thing that makes this statement an unqualified, absolute truth is the ignorance of the conservative in question. Conservatism either denies the attempt at progressive solutions due to some cost effectiveness argument, or else it is based upon some religious nonsense. Either way, it is a systematic, philosophical denial of assisting one's fellow human being. Ignorance mitigates some of that judgement, but not all of it, and certainly not forever. I think Brie's statement is bold, and deserves as much respect as many of you are demanding of her.

"You are a Liberal because you know that it is not all as it ought to be, and because you would still march on to some nearer approach to equality" -- Plantagenet Palliser to Phineas Finn, The Prime Minister, Anthony Trollope, 1876.

Same conclusion, different century.

I don't know if conservatives in general or liberals are better, mainly because I don't know them all and can't compare.

I will say I believe that the liberal ideals are more giving and more in tune with a humane way of looking at the world and less with personal gain and also have more to do with structuring society in such a way that everyone is represented as well and as equally as possible no matter who they worship, what color their skin is, or with whom they have sex. I think the conservative belief system is more in line with suppressing people who are perceived as scary or different. There's a lot of fear and anger in the conservative belief system from what I can see.

However, that's a belief system. Who's to say everyone who espouses it really lives it?

So short and to the point. The madness that is the ne0-conservative, and all conservatives which is based solely on fear and intimidation is destroying our nation. We liberals better get off of our peaceful asses and stand up for what we know is right.
Rated

Brie: I understand your frustration, believe me. But I wouldn't agree that one is fundamentally better than the other.

What we do see, however, is a different value system embodied in general between those who identify on the left and those who identify on the right.

People's values vary and what they do in the world is based on their values. If you want to say that valuing justice over individual self-interest is better, I would agree with you. But one can't prove a value is right the way one can prove that 1 + 1 = 2.

You can never convince someone that their value system is worse than your own. Everyone thinks their way of seeing things is better. You can only gather together enough people who share your views to carry the day over those who have opposing views. It helps if there are criteria that can be employed such as an agreement that facts and reason and science matter. If you can't agree on that, then it's really almost impossible to have a dialogue.

In the process of trying to carry the day, you can, if you do your work right, win over some people who used to see things a different way, particularly if those people discover that they've been getting lied to.

At least some of the people who are currently taking the wrong side of things are doing so not primarily because they're fundamentally worse as people but because they are being misled.

Bill Beck, Thank you. I wish I could have said it as eloquent as you.

Devilgrrl, Thank you.

Sweetfeet. I respectfully disagree with you.

Overworked, Yes Mam!

Odette, Good comment. Thank you.

Micalpeace, Thanks bro.

Harvey, Is that all you got?

"In the process of trying to carry the day, you can, if you do your work right, win over some people who used to see things a different way, particularly if those people discover that they've been getting lied to."

You are so right Dennis. I must admit, I'm growing weary. I'll do my best to continue the fight.

I don't know how you define a good person. I know liberals who love humanity and are mean to people. I know conservatives who are kind-hearted and believe in policies that would lead to suffering that they probably could not bear to look at. I don't know which is morally worse, although I would, for example, vote for someone whose policies were beneficial to the public, but who was an asshole.

I agree with you Serenita.

"what's best for me" is not a tenet of good and decent people

Can't argue with that statement.

Indeed.

Dennis Loo:

Conservatism violates its own value system, modern conservatism anyway. For starters, conservatism is not a stand alone philosophy. It is, by definition, a reaction to progressivism. It exists to limit or negate progressivism. When the progressivism is for the purpose of humane pursuits, and the resistance is a principle rather than a superior strategy, then the response is evil. Denying movement towards a humane solution on principle grounds is always evil.

There are two general justifications for conservatism. Those are financial, and religious dogma. The financial can be split into two categories. Those are economic ideology, and fiscal or logistical concerns. To defend religious dogma as a way to deny humane treatment, such as denying medical care in a preference for prayer, is only for the purpose of maintaining power over believers. It is evil. It falsely states its purpose. And choosing parsimony over humanity is evil. Work it out for yourself, Dennis. Belief has no place in public administration where science serves. Conservatism only serves subjectivity. And when the objective concern is humanity, subjectivity, or conservatism with no rational basis, is evil. The notion that it is a choice between equals is flawed. It isn't. "No", without a underlying reasoning is not reason, it is emotion.

Another great comment Bill. I envy your clarity when voicing your opinion.

I'd go that far. In fact, I did!

You certainly did Eva. Perfectly.