LDS Bishop Murdered: Enough With the Mormon Bashing !
And you want to make fun of Mormons for their underwear?
In Brandon’s Big Gay Blog, Brandon Burt talks about coming out as Gay in the LDS culture. As you might guess, it was not easy and there was little acceptance from the LDS culture but still he says “It infuriates me how often Mormons are unfairly caricatured as mindless automatons with no opinions of their own but those emanating from 50 E. North Temple.” I couldn’t agree more.
I am what he refers to as a cultural Mormon. That is, I do not believe in the teachings of the LDS Church, (or any other church) but I am certainly a product of the Mormon culture in which I was raised. I was taught many wonderful and true values in my upbringing that are still a part of my value system today.
If I may steal further from Brandon's post, (linked above) he says “In fact, Mormon culture extends beyond the General Authorities, the lay-clergy and the "active" members. There are Jack-Mormons, ex-Mormons, inactive members, gay Mormons, feminist Mormons, intellectual Mormons, liberal Mormons, Mormons who love cats, Mormons who love dogs, Mormons who love all kinds of animals, and Mormons who refuse to allow anything four-footed onto their property. Yes, there is a whole teeming, frothy, individualistic World O' Mormons out there.”
I couldn’t have said it better myself, which is why I stole it from Brandon. In essence, there is within Mormonism, all the same things that exist in the world at large. Tell me you’re not really surprised to learn that.
In this post-Prop 8 day and age in which Glen Beck is supposedly paving the way for mainstream acceptance of Mitt Romney come 2012, (sorry, I can’t remember where I read that or I’d post a link), Mormon bashing has reached an all time high. Okay, there was that whole assassination of Joe Smith thing, so maybe not an all-time high but certainly epidemic.
On Sunday, a disgruntled former Mormon murdered an LDS Bishop in Visalia, CA. I’ve been an outspoken critic of the LDS Church on many issues, most notably Prop 8, but when people are getting murdered, it’s time to come together with my Mormon friends, including the Cultural Mormons, and say ‘enough’!
Mormonism to me is like my little sister. I may tease her but if you try it, you’re asking to get your ass kicked. Seriously, there is plenty to criticize but before you get all self-righteous, you need to recognize that there is at least as much fucked-upedness in your religion. I mean, funny hat and robe wearing Catholics want to ridicule Mormons for their underwear? Seriously?
Southern Baptists want to call Mormons a cult and claim that they aren’t Christians? Since when is someone who believes in the Bible and worships Jesus not a Christian? And how, pray tell, are Southern Baptists any less cultish anyway, you non-dancing freaks?
Like any religion, there are hypocrites and there are good people who genuinely try to live their beliefs. The best people I know are my own parents who, while not perfect, genuinely tried to live their religion.
My mother used to tell us to do as she said and not as she does but she really did teach by example. She is absolutely the best person I know, and a life long democrat who supports the right of gays to marry. I hope she forgives me for outing her on her political beliefs as she does mostly keep them to herself to keep peace in the family. At any rate, that does sort of fly in the face of the whole “all Mormons are right wing nut jobs” stereotype.
Growing up in my Mormon home, I was taught about love and compassion, about equality for all people, about looking after the less fortunate, standing up for what I believe and to genuinely try to be a good person. Not all of you can say that but that doesn’t stop you from criticizing my religion of origin, does it?
I’m not a big fan of any religion or what passes for Christianity in general these days, but I am a huge fan of Jesus. The dude got it right for the most part. So why do so called Christians fail to understand that he was all about peace, love, compassion and looking after our weaker brothers and sisters? Those are the liberal values I cherish and the best people I know live those values, regardless of their religious or political affiliations. I learned them from my Mormon family.
My wife says that I can’t claim to be a Mormon because I don’t believe in their doctrine. I can’t blame her for thinking that because she didn’t grow up in Utah, in a Mormon family, in the Mormon culture. Even though she lived in Utah for a few years, she can’t possibly understand how my pioneer heritage is part of who I am today. She can’t understand how I can reject the religion but cling to most of the values I was taught and how, immersed in the culture as I was, it has become a part of who I am.
Some of my family and Mormon friends think of me as their crazy, eccentric uncle, which I find ironic since I’m all about the same values they claim to espouse. I just take them literally.
Regardless of my religious beliefs, I am a Cultural Mormon. Got a problem with that?
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Comments
I suspect that most of us here have similar values, Boanerges. It's time we started looking and our similarities because this polarization is killing us. I also suspect that most of us fall short but continue to try living up to them.
And yet what I believe is that all these beliefs answer certain universal needs within us all, and they are similar in content with cultural biases (sp?) accounting for the different details.
I agree, Tim. Who is anyone who believes that the eye in the sky is looking out for them to make fun of other people's version of the eye in the sky?
Bumped.
What I try not to do (admittedly often un successfully) is to not bash the people who believe in the particular religion. This is kind of hard to do though. If a person believes in all of the tenets of a religion (for example Papal infallibility) then when I say the Pope is a lying fuckwaffle (which he is), it is inherently bashing the people.
So if it's okay with you, I'm going to TRY to consider "cultural" members of a given religion as back sliding heathens who don't believe any of the holier than thou crap that organized religions spew.
P.S. As a Back Sliding Heathen myself I think they'd be good company anyways! ;~) ) company
Hehehe.
-R-
Except for specifically religious concepts of ethics and morals (which may be more beliefs than anything) I'd be hard pressed to show that I have any different standards of right and wrong - good and bad than anyone else.
It is not people accepting religion that makes them good - it is that good people find religion acceptable that makes religion good.
"My conscience is my God." Same here, Scanner. I hate that attitude that we need God to tell us what's right and what's wrong.
Noirville, I must have missed Sunday School the day they said Catholics weren't Christians. I was never taught that.
From one backsliding heathen to another, Amy, I'm down with that. I think Mormonism is mostly a bunch of hooey but no more so than every other religion.
And I will always like green Jello, Joan.
Lady M, I do think good, guilt-free sex would do a lot of folks some good.
The way I see it, Skypixie, is that good people are good people. Period.
Porsadgai, you're right. My point though, is that one religion is no better or worse than the next, for the most part. They all got it wrong so I don't know how one can point their finger at another.
I'm also the granddaughter of a man whose whole family was Mormon, but who rejected the church once he was old enough. We got all of the lectures from our grandparents about the evils of Mormonism, but it wasn't until I got older that I realized that there was craziness in all churches. I don't think any "Christian" church has it right.
At this point, I guess you could say I'm a Cultural Lutheran, but really, saying that I'm Norwegian covers it.
Cindy, the murder was committed by a disgruntled Mormon who has been battling the church for 20 years. I don't know if there is a connection to Mormon bashing or not but I have to wonder if the current atmosphere regarding Mormons over Prop 8 might have added fuel to his fire and prompted him to take such drastic action when it has simmered for so long without boiling over until now.
I don't expect that the bashing will stop and I have been, and probably be again, as guilty as anyone. I just think that before you single Mormons out you need to look at your own wacky religion. They're all screwy if you ask me. No one gets a pass.
AS IF!!!!!
Not friendly!
I understand the cultural aspects of religion, like the rituals. I get that part of the appeal of a religion is what you can do socially with others, how you can form bonds with fellow humans. It would be nice though if these social interactions and rituals could go on between us all without all the fairy tales that come with religion.
Americans actually believe these stories happened and are truth and not just lessons or parables on morality. Rated.
I used to harbor a lot of resentment toward my religion of birth but I grew up. You might try doing the same.
Remeber a couple of years ago, there was that nut that murdered a bunch of Amish or Mennonites or something? Was he a manifestation of societal hate against them? No.
It's just a numbers game. X number of people flip out each year and they might kill a celebrity or their parents or a convenience store clerk or .... a Mormon bishop.
And although I think Mormon theology is more twisted and nutty than most religions, and I find their wearing of secret underwear hillarious - I also in my life have found them to be extremely nice people. Maybe in some parts of the country they are hated, but I haven't seen it here in the Northwest.
Congrates on the EP!
From the outside religious organizations can appear very monolithic. But when you get on the inside you discover that they can be very fractious and diverse, and with many thoughtful and educated members. And it's not uncommon to see religious groups helping out at the local soup kitchen, or even running the soup kitchen, reaching out to prostitutes and drug addicts, and delivering clothing to migrant labor camps.
By the way -- "Mormonism to me is like my little sister. I may tease her but if you try it, you’re asking to get your ass kicked" -- great line!
You can't possibly understand Catholicism just as I don't know anything about the Mormans except that they have big families....like lots of Catholics do.
Now....what about the Morman's underwear?
i grew up on central new york, near palmyra. ring a bell? they have the hill camorah pageant every year, complete with angel moroni (sp?). as kids we off course called him angel macaroni. no bashing, it was just the words were so close.
i have also grown up with the young men doing their missionary work at the local colleges etc. to be honest we did tend to laugh at them because they dressed so straight and acted very serious and holy until they thought no one was looking then made obviously sexual remarks about the girls going by.
i try to not bash anyone. i am having a hard time deciding whether i read humor, anger or angry humor in your posting.
i like the quote from the movie 'constantine': 'god is a kid with an ant farm'. that pretty much sums it up for me.
Like you, my friends and I have been known to make fun of Mormons from time to time. But it's a gentle sort of ribbing, and at least half self-deprecatory -- at least we know what we're talking about!
When outsiders do it, they always make fun of the wrong things (garments? Polygamy? Come on ...), and it is always mean-spirited, and they always get it just wrong. It makes me feel defensive: Hey! Those are OUR Mormons you're talking about! Get lost!
It made me happy to read you outing yourself as a Cultural Mormon. Rock on!
Brandon, I'm really pleased you stopped by.
j.cowles, I may have been brainwashed but at least I can spell.
On the other hand, what is with this whole Mormon Ad Campaign thing that is going on right now? All I hear on the radio are these odd commercials about featuring people doing normal things that also are a Mormon. I don't really get it. Is it like guilt or something over the whole Prop 8 thing or just putting the word out or what?
I don't harbor ill will towards Mormons or any other religions, it's just weird, this whole commercialized thing that has been launched to get the word out about Mormons being "regular people". I was not aware that something was different about you guys before the advertising started so what gives?
AMEN!
Of course most of it doesn't rise to the level of rape, beating and murder but some of it does. I don't think there is a direct connection to the murder of the Bishop but as I said in a previous comment, the fact that the killer has had his anger simmering for 20 years and it just now it boiled over, makes you wonder if the current atmosphere of hostility played a role. Maybe it didn't. I dunno but I don't think that denigrates my point..
Just because most of it doesn't rise to the level of rape, beating or murder (though I could point you to numerous cases of missionary assaults and ever murder), doesn't mean it's right, nor does it mitigate the concerns of women, gays and people of color.
Oh, and Mormons do dance.
Amen, preach it brother! I've been accused of being a "Red-Letter Christian" and a "Chinese Menu Christain" as though taking Jesus at his word or thinking for yourself was somehow sinful. I believe God gave me a mind, and He/She/It expects me to use it or be damned to Hell.
As for Mormonism, I have a Mormon cousin who tries his best to convince me his faith has it right. Sorry, Jack, but I ain't buyin' it, and I certainly have no intention of converting. As I told him -- I see no reason to trade one set of fairy-tales for another.
All that being said, when are people going to stop killing each other in the name of religion? And what kind of puny God do you (the editorial you) have that needs some miserable wretch like you to defend Him/Her/It?
Your Atheist pal!
Great piece.
Murder is wrong no matter who or what the person is.
Way to show us the better side of humanity.
Cap'n Shit for Brains
I used to think I was Presbyterian. Then Methodist. Now I'm technically an atheist who believes that something like a Creator of reality must be in the mix somewhere.
The best of all religions speak to the best in us. Sadly, many religious people ignore the good parts and obsess on being their brother's keeper. Not cool.
The happiest place on Earth, is not Disneyland. It's Salt Lake City, and you don't even have to believe in God to savor the peace and brotherhood one feels there. And yes, you can get a drink and buy some good pot, if that's your thing. And my gay friends didn't seem chaffing to get out to S.F. or L.A. where they could be more "out".
Religion brings out the worst and the best in humans. This murder is just another sad manifestation of a diseased human brain which has trapped a sincerely good human mind. Isn't it too bad we can't judge the brain and the mind separately? I got nothing.
Not me. The fucked-upedness of all religions is why I don't have one.
that doesn’t stop you from criticizing my religion of origin, does it?
You're the one saying all religions are fucked-up. I'd call that a pretty big criticism. Those of us who are also non-believers in the Mormon brand of Christianity (like you), who also criticize the LDS religion for its fucked-upedness (like you), are just agreeing with you. So what's your problem?
I hope she forgives me for outing her on her political beliefs [being a liberal Democrat] as she does mostly keep them to herself to keep peace in the family. At any rate, that does sort of fly in the face of the whole “all Mormons are right wing nut jobs” stereotype.
I think your second sentence doth protest too much, and the "Mormons = right wing nut jobs" stereotype is at least true enough to make your own mother hide her political thoughts from her own family.