Cap'n Parrotdead

Cap'n Parrotdead
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Major Mojo
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Former human turned evil clown. ....................................................... ........................................................ Banner by the incomparable Ric Tresa ........................................................

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JULY 23, 2011 2:27PM

Lessons from Norway: It's Fundamentalism, Not Islam

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amoral religious scumbag In the moments after the news of the latest terror incident broke, this one in Norway, there was an immediate assumption that Muslims were behind the violence. Within minutes, one Facebook friend posted a link that said that a rise in rape in Norway corresponded to a rise in Muslim immigration. We in the West are quick to blame Islam for every act of senseless violence that crosses our consciousness, in a 'blame now ask questions later' frenzy. Now we know that the perpetrator was a blonde-haired, blue-eyed fundamental Christian.

It's convenient and easy to blame Islam because we all know that those people are crazy. The other day I actually heard one Republican presidential candidate, who calls himself a Constitutional expert, say that The Bill of Rights does not apply to Islam because they are a government and not a religion. He cited the very existence of Sharia Law as proof, saying that making laws makes you a government. Apparently if you call it a commandment, you're off the hook.

People ask me why I'm so hard on religion in my essays. The answer is that fundamentalism is dangerous, whether it be Christian, Muslim or any other belief system based on the writings of superstitious ancients. I am an advocate for replacing our superstition-based beliefs with sanity, facts and reason. If we ever succeed in doing that, we will have the antidote for not only terror, but most of the social problems our world faces.

The Hope and the Fallacy

During the height of the so-called Ground Zero Mosque debate, I wrote a post in which I praised the reasoned and rational words of Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf when he called for moderates on all sides to carry the day. I believe that the reasonable people far outnumber the extremists on all sides and that they represent our best hope for learning how to get along in the world.

That said, there's just one problem with religious moderation: it's a lie.

Have you read The Koran?” one Mosque detractor replied to every point I tried to make.

Have you read The Bible?” I answered each and every time.

The problem is that the fundamentalists are right in regard to those ancient texts. Their intolerant and often violent points of view are exactly what those books espouse. As much as I appreciate the reasonable folk of all religions, as much as I believe they are our best hope, when it comes to “God's word” according to the ancient texts, they are just flat in denial. Either you're a fundamentalist or you don't truly believe that the Bible or the Koran are the word of God or Allah. Simple as that.

Then What is the Answer?

Fundamentalism, my friends, is the enemy, be it Christian or Muslim, and moderation is a big, fat lie. So what is the answer? Trust your heart. You don't need TV preachers with bad hair and dimples to tell you what is right, or even that nice young pastor down at the local Baptist Church, and you certainly don't need morally bankrupt political leaders to calibrate your moral compass. In your heart, you know that intolerance of all shades is wrong. You know that useless wars and killing are wrong.

Trust yourself and let go of your ancient superstitions. Then, and only then, will things get better.

 

 

 

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But what do I know? I'm just a Godless Heathen.
Fundamentalism is a special branch of conservatism- it is a way of thinking, it doesn't tell you what you believe. It is the most egocentric of all forms of thought, selecting the interior point of view as the measurement against all other things. Like Cinderella's shoe, we must cut off many things to fit into that glass slipper, but yet many strive for the idealism of that elusive, chosen, perfect fit.
The truth of all things is available at all times to all people. Yet, we choose to close our eyes and look for something mystical and magical to explain existence, rather than celebrate the beauty of existence. It is incomprehensible that one lousy person was capable of so much damage, so we must seek to find the hidden clue, the key, of so much hatred coming from somewhere else. Hatred is the fuel of fundamentalism, sexism, racism, all bigotry and bias and violence. Hate of that which is not self.
Thank nature for godless heathens, Mojo. I believe that what is "god" is what is innate in all of us, the spark of consciousness that transcends individual thought. I think that is a gift of the universe, not the property of any individual group. Sadly, many people believe that in order to be special, they must be better than others, and in order to be better, they must be hateful.
i am also a heathen, but live in god's grace. the most fundamental groups will blame each other for all the troubles. everyone in the middle must pick up the pieces and make the repairs.
Dear Godless Heathen,

You make some good points! I still had to report you to the Feds for such 'forward' thinking which we all know leads to a breakdown in the mind and then terrorism!! You are now on a Watch List and soon will be arrested and sent to Cuba to face a rum squad.

I'm sorry. It had to be done!! :D
"I believe that what is "god" is what is innate in all of us, the spark of consciousness that transcends individual thought. "

I love that, Oryoki. I think there may be a facebook status in that.

It is about the middle, dianna, whatever that may be.
P.S.

We have to have someone to blame, why not blame the Muslims or you, damn Godless Heathen!! :D

**Wanders off**
I place myself in that "godless heathen" category, while I reject the title. Like Christopher Hitchens said, I don't define myself by something that does not exist. But, yeah, if I may say so, you and I are just alike.

As for what to do, maybe buy body armor, and a gun, or get really good at dodging bombs and bullets. Seriously though, it seems like it is open season on the open minded. Whether it is the Taliban, or the Palin-band, the forces of intolerance seem to be mounting an offensive.
Fundamentalists of all stripes- who are convinced only they have a special pipeline to the one TRUTH- and that they have the right to impose it on others are evil and dangerous. Religion is a way for people to abdicate individual responsibilty and happily let others- the voice of God, Allah, Odin whatever- do their thinking for them.
People who are logical, rational and value independent thinking don't let ancient works of fiction and superstions control their thoughts and lives.
I fundamentally agree.
I'm with you on the label too, Bill. If I am defined by my beliefs, it should be my belief in reason, not my disbelief in faery tales.

My point exactly, EOS. Listen to yourself.
(Greenwald has a rather well-done piece on Big Salon about how the MSM handled the Oslo coverage.)

Anyway, Cappy, I agree with you and Bill -- not for the first time, either.
Well done, I have posted to my fb.
So often, some of the evilest acts are committed in the name of some higher power or sacred cause. I guess it makes it easier to rationalize attrocities or discrimination if you think that its in the name of what you consider to be holy.
I don't get it- but it seems nutcases who are fanatics always have some one perfect belief they consider justifies their actions.
Its sad that Norway isn't immune from this sickness.
Magnificent, sir.

Let's hope that some phrases can transcend the books as "infallible words from god" and be nothing more than the Wisdom of the Ages:

Love Your Neighbor as You Love Yourself

You cannot remove the splinter from your brother's eye when there is a beam in yours.

Be thou not angry (from the Koran.)

It's time we made sense of the world by being sensible.
As long as people cling to a belief that there is some type of grand Heaven you go to after you die, with gold toilet paper and 16 year old virgins waiting on them, and all you have to do is die, I see no hope. As long as people think it's is OK to kill in the name of God, what chance do with ever have to stop it. They lock up and medicate lunatics who think they hear voices and are violent, yet they let people in politics say God told them to run for president, and once in, God tells them to bomb Iraq like W. did. Why is it OK for politicians and religious zealots to hear voices and call for Jihads, but they lock up my crazy uncle who hears voices and wears underwear on his head and harms no one. Crazy is as Crazy does!
Very well-said. Tell me more about the blonde haired fundamentalist Christian responsible for the bombing in Norway.
Well said. Have to love the Godless heathens! God gave us sanity, fact and reason...we simply continue to trump our gifts with fear and greed.
You are so right on this one!
Hey Boanerges, how you be? I'll check out the Greenwald piece.

Thanks Sheila.

Ian, I'm afraid nowhere is immune.

donniteowl, those are words I can get behind.

Yep, Scanner, I couldn't agree more. Ironically, those people are often the most afraid of death. Go figure.

Thanks, Erica. I know little about him beyond what I said here but I think more info is what God gave us the internet for.

Laura, we certainly have the gifts of sanity, fact and reason. Where they came from is a matter of some debate but I'm quite sure we don't need any superstitious ancients to help us figure it out.
The wonders of the universe are way more impressive than some unbelievable, poorly written fiction. A pretend guy coming down from supernatural land to live with us after a virgin birth and sending most of us to hell for eternity is not that great of a plot. Oh, but there are twists. Even though we are born imperfect, this supernatural dude demands we act perfectly- in perfect accordance to an ancient holy book written by a committee of racist, slave owners who abused women and murdered strangers for wild reasons. And if we don't do so properly, then his punishment is eternity, which I hear is a very long time. But remember he loves you. . Hitchens calls him the "celestial dictator. " It's all bullshit all this supernatural crap, including all the New Age stupidity.

Look through a telescope and be glad you are here. Forget the burning bushes. The Muslim religion is way worse on many levels. They still stone and behead people and the way they treat women is way worse than any other religion. Do not become too tolerate of intolerance.
"Right Wing Fundamentalists" is a scary term. What is it that they view as "fundamental" in the act of taking lives?
Fundamental to what belief or viewpoint?

I think of the "fundamentals" of anything as the basics and building blocks that hold it together. If acts of terrorism are foundational to a belief, then the belief is obviously flawed.

The taking of life is "fundamentally" insane.

Nice write.
Well said. As an ex-Fundamentalist christian, I know that you are right. I have since crossed over to the heathen side.
All the more reason to look into Buddhism. They won't even kill bugs. If you train yourself to hesitate before killing God's smallest creatures, it put killing the bigger in perspective. Bugs in my house go out the window, but I still have a problem with mosquitos, the blood thirsty fundamentalists of the insect world.
KILL THEM ALL AND LET GAWD SORT THEM OUT, GAWDAMMIT!! which gawd? ANY GAWD DAM GAWD!!!
Just read your great post on reason vs. superstition, Doc. Outstanding. The main difference between Islam and Christianity today is that more Muslims take their faery book literally.

I fundamentally thank you, JD.

Welcome to the light side, Trilogy.
I hate those little bloodthirsty suckers too, Kate. As my wife said, they are quick learners though. Slap them once and they never bite you again.

Matt, you have a future in the Republican Party.
Religion and some political ideologies provide absolutes for some people who urgently feel that the world has come to such a horrible state that violent action is the only solution. I sincerely doubt this is ever a solution to the miseries of the world but the sense in many of us today that the world has lost decent direction frequently inspires decisive people to a determination to act and guns and explosives are easily available to those with that huge anger and massive sense of frustration.
This incident in Norway, the Oklahoma bombing, 9/11 at the WTC, the suicide bombers in Israel, and many others all bear the same stigmas of great frustration and a terrible anger to do something to right obvious wrongs. When these energies are not given possibilities for rational public political outlet it is sure that many more will re-occur. The actions of the various government repressive forces to prevent open protest is a stimulant to this type of protest. Norway seems to me a most unlikely place for this type of reaction since it appears it is very tolerant place for open public protest so there probably is a strong element of psychological disorder in this incident. But as government repression increases around the world I expect there will be more of these tragedies.
i was going to adopt your Heathen tag ( i like the sound of that word), but i've always wanted to be a pagan. can i be both? sure, i can. :) actually, i'm hugely skeptical of anything that calls itself a religion and gets organized. it's the organization that's a big part of the problem, don't you think, where they come up with a whole list of rules or numbered paths to _____ (fill in the blank: heaven, righteousness, nirvana, etc.), and it somehow always involves money (giving some to them, giving it away, declaring it evil, whatevah). the whole thing smells like a scheme to me. "morally sound" feels like a good thing to aim at, far as i'm concerned. and i kill lots of bugs. without a hint of guilt. good one, cappy. nice to see you speaking out on this one.
There is no SKYPIXIE. None, nada ZERO.

But there IS a "SkypixieZero"......


Major,

You earned your rank today sir. This is great! It pleases me so much to see so many other OSers whom I respect joining in and speaking up as part of we who put reason and sanity above hatred.

It makes me so sad to know that such hatred, itself a product of fear, plays such a large role in the lives of so many people. It is really odd that it does so since EVERY DOGGONE ONE of their "Great Religious Founders" espoused love in preference to hatred.
In case you think the Buddhists are free of guilt:

Check out what the Japanese did in the name of Buddha during WWII. Nothing worst that skimming for religious fantasy.

How do you thing Buddhist nations became powerful? Not killing ants? WOW. Reality check.
In case you think the Buddhists are free of guilt:

Check out what the Japanese did in the name of Buddha during WWII. Nothing worst that skimming for religious fantasy.

How do you thing Buddhist nations became powerful? Not killing ants? WOW. Reality check.
I think the sociological forces that gave rise to Al Qaeda and the recent attack in Norway are totally different and distinct. Terrorism is a common tool used by many, of all political stripes.

Although he's being labelled a fundamentalist Christian, I think the evidence will show he was a white nationalist, and that this was his primary political identity.
Among politically saavy white supremacists, saying that you're committed to "European Christian Civilization" is a codeword for something else. Its very different from Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell.

When a European says he wants to emulate the Knights Templar and drive the Muslims from Europe, like a modern day Charles Martel, he is calling on a very specific political tradition and it has nothing to do with Christian Fundamentalism.

"Christian" here is a codeword for "purified" European culture, without a Jewish or Muslim presence, but it is not used, at least by the European neofascists I have studied, in a "religious" sense.

Of course I could be wrong, but the neofascists, and even the original fascists, utilized this rhetoric and imagery, but without really being religious fundamentalists.

They were, in effect, cultural fundamentalists. They want to "purify" Western Culture...
It seems to me Rwoo5g has a reasonable point in that radical politics, racism, as well as religion can be energizing factors in these explosive outbreaks. But the element of insanity is a large presence and murdering a few or even a large number of random people who happen to be in a particular location does little if anything for their cause.
Your last paragraphs say it all. There is a line somewhere between fundamentalism and thought disorders (e.g., forms of schizophrenic process) that is mighty blurry at times. I grow increasingly impatient with protecting civil liberties of those unable to comprehend the concept.

Well said.
But psychologically, it goes deeper than that. Racism and Nazism are the Bobsy twins of fundamentalism. See my latest posting for more information.
As you well know, this is one area where I disagree. With that said though, I can fully understand why you feel the way you do. Religion has its place, as does politics, education, sex, entertainment etc. There is a function and role within our society for each of these areas even though we should not mix any of them. I happen to believe that the extreme of anything can be dangerous if in the wrong hands. Moderation is truly the way to go and moderation is possible within reasonable individuals. Religion helps some and hinders others....but no matter what our beliefs, following Christ won't harm or hurt anyone....literally. If we can truly love others as we love ourselves, we will be following the footstops of Christ whether we acknowledge Him or not. Love is the basis of all and is what Christ is all about.
I think all religious text are social commentaries with bits of the truth to be found throughout them all. But you have to think of the time they lived in and the time we live in. I am not a fundamentalist, but you make a good point about the fundamentalist.

I had read about what happened in Norway today. I was sad for their nation and those who were killed and injured.
While I don't confuse fundamentalism, literalism, et.al., w what I see as positive aspects of belief, I wholly agree that political, economic, and religious fundamentalism are of necessity and by definition, in the end, destructive and are motivated almost wholly by fear...the emotion it feels it must intill broadly.

r.
Don't get me wrong, I dig Jesus but he was just a person.
The problem with you thesis is that he was not a fundamentalist Christian. The irony of pointing out how many jump the gun and then jumping the gun. Anders Behring Breivik himself claimed that he was not very religious and thought of Western culture than his "faith." He hated multiculturalism and Muslims.

Second, you saying fundmentalism is the faith really doesn't stand up to the evidence. Fundamentalism is about hundred years old and the religions you tag dwarf that age span.
Glad to see you here, Buddy!
Moderation is in fact the most difficult path. Ideology rules the day and whoa be it to those who dare contend with it. I have argued this all of my life and will continue to do so. The more interesting question is what leads to it, and when will they ever learn?
kate o'hehir has confused buddhists with jains, which is an entirely different religion though begun at roughly the same time in India by Mahavir, who lived down the road.
Clear headed here: Buddhism was born out of Hindism as everyone knows, and what the Japanese did in WWII had nothing to do with Buddhism and everything to do with imperialism.
Kate: I think you're right, but the Jains deserve their due. Gandhi was influenced by them to bring non-violence into the "modern" world--not Buddhism. It's important to serve the truth.
ancient superstitions are a phase we all go through
in our development out of mythological thinking
and into rational thought.

and beyond Reason is
eternity, the forgiveness of errors.
the intellectual palace of allah/buddha/christ.
the
very
now...
@JD "The taking of life is "fundamentally" insane."

Well apparently there is a lot of insanity.
Ever heard of this thing called abortion.
@Erica - why don't you tell me more about the blonde haired christian? I haven't found any evidence of that. And even if he s a christian that is just one label you can put on him. It does not mean it was his motivation. Maybe he played guitar, so guitarists are nut jobs. He is a male. All males are a nut job. You get the point. Even IF there is any evidence that he labeled himself a christian (and I haven't seen any yet) it is an over generalization.
What if he was a Jew. I guess that wold be all the more reason to implicate a religion as motivation.

Seems to me liberals are always looking to find religious and or conservative views as the reason for a nut case.
Seems liberals where chomping at the bit for the Tucson nut to
be a tea party member. But the nut at Ft. Hood gets a pass. No chance he is a Muslim fundamentalist.
This guy seems just like the Tucson guy. They both had their reasons in their heads, but they are representative of themselves or maybe a few others.
These guys are nut jobs regardless of what, of many, groups you can place them in.
Fundamentalism is just another way of saying that people take their religion seriously. The problem is that Judaism and its two offshoots, Christianity and Islam, are violent, misogynistic, intolerant and hateful. (That's 14 years of church school talking). The only decent adherents of these religions are those who water it down and ignore the immoral parts they don't like.
@Mojo - I think your point about the politician and his statements concerning Muslims and the Bill of Rights and the Commandments is not a valid argument. The Commandments were made by people not a government and they are not the law of the land. Some of the are, like murder, and several are not, like going to church on Sunday and infidelity.

The point is not that a Muslim person is not afforded the Bill of Right. The point is that the Bill of Rights does not provide protection or defense of criminal activity by claiming "my religious law allows me to violate the gov laws. "

If a man thinks he can abuse his wife because his religion says so (as he interprets it) its not going to fly. Go to jail without passing go.
Mojo - also, I don't know anyone that is quick to blame Muslims as you say. So who are "we"? If you are talking about a relatively extremely few of 300M+ people that
have a public forum like TV and radio, I don't think that number measures up to any "we".
Just to show how ignorant many Americans are. Here in the Tampa Bay Area the comments in the local online newspapers are still accusing Muslim terrorists of orchestrating this attack!
I take issue with the idea that people must somehow be slyly ignoring their holy texts to be religious...the difference between fundamentalism and mainstream religious belief is literalism in the service of power and control. That's the basis of fundamentalism. Most modern religious types see the books as complex, imperfect sources of inspiration and wisdom, bound in part by their originating time. While many may not articulate this verbally, they do so in how they live their lives - participating in the traditions that have current meaning, and disregarding the traditions or teachings that have grown outdated. this isn't a "cafeteria" style of faith, it's just what faith looks like when it isn't fundamentalist.
I take issue with the idea that people must somehow be slyly ignoring their holy texts to be religious...the difference between fundamentalism and mainstream religious belief is literalism in the service of power and control. That's the basis of fundamentalism. Most modern religious types see the books as complex, imperfect sources of inspiration and wisdom, bound in part by their originating time. While many may not articulate this verbally, they do so in how they live their lives - participating in the traditions that have current meaning, and disregarding the traditions or teachings that have grown outdated. this isn't a "cafeteria" style of faith, it's just what faith looks like when it isn't fundamentalist.
But the problem isn't fundamentalism per se. Lumping everything into the "fundamentalism" category ignores some critical differences.

Terrorist acts by Christians (or people who consider themselves to be Christians) are overwhelmingly of the "lone wolf" variety. The acts are typically committed by a single person, sometimes with the assistance of a handful of others, in the country in which the individual lives.

Islamic terrorism is very different. It tends to be done by larger groups of people, and is highly organized. The terrorists often receive assistance from international terrorist organizations. Such assistance can include training, weapons, financing, communications, logistics, transportation, recruitment, and so on. Sometimes assistance is even provided by governments. Multiple, coordinated, attacks by Islamic terrorists, even simultaneous attacks in different countries are not uncommon.

In short, it simply makes no sense to put everyone into the "fundamentalist" category. Islamic terrorism is far more dangerous, has a vastly wider scope, and involves many more people.
Yay! Top billing.

Religious moderation can work. It has to work. It's too much to expect to extirpate all traces of religion from the human mind but somehow leave the spiritual untouched. There is a continuum in our minds from the awe and innate respect we feel for nature, to the belief that gods live in the trees, to the conviction that there is one powerful god who wants the state run a particular way. Humans tend to incubate extremism, and the opposing force to religious extremism is not extreme atheism but an encouragement of religious moderation in those who can't resist the siren song of belief. I say this as an atheist myself.

The religious moderates I know take the philosophy, the meditative practices, and the charitable tradition of Christianity, and interpret the Biblical stories as metaphor. They shrink the credulity factor to the minimum consistent with a belief in something like a god, but without the bells and whistles of resurrections and ascensions, the thunder and lightning of hell and religious war. It works for them, and they do good work in the name of their beliefs. Real Christians exist who don't believe that Mary was a virgin, or that Jesus was, for that matter. (A Jewish friend explained that if Jesus were not married, no one would would have taken him seriously as a teacher because he would not have been considered quite grown up.)

Essentially, belief in a god is no more irrational than a constitutional optimism, or a temperamental pessimism. Either one sustains belief in the unseen. Gentleness, cooperation, non-violence, restraint--these are cultural values that can co-exist with, and moderate, even long established, well-elaborated religions. The problem of violence is in our cultures, because those are what shape behavior, whatever gloss we put on our actions, whether religion, politics, business, or free-ranging spite and desperation.
Major Mojo,

Although there's sense in your arguments, you didn't convince me. Especially when you say about getting rid of the believers ... we will have the antidote for not only terror, but most of the social problems our world faces.

That would be something!
But to me it seems that you very strongly link fundamentalism to violence and violence to fundamentalism.

I could inform you about the Italian Mario Borghezio, who applauded the ideas of Breivik; he thought it was not Breivik's fundamentalism, neither his madness, but the invasion of Muslims that caused him to become violent!
Mari Borghezio, is certainly not a fundamentalist, neither does his party stem from anti-muslim-feelings. And, being an Italian man, he is a catholic but probably no more a believer than you are.

I could inform you about the distance the Dutch Wilders wants to see between him and Breivik. Still, Wilders holds exactly the same ideas as Breivik; just Wilders is a politician who knows exactly what does bring him voters and what will take voters away. So, he was as eager as opportunistic to call Breivik a mad man. With his tongue he’s very insulting, very aggressive – I would say: violent. And because of that: inciting violence and making people like Breivik mad men.
Geert Wilders is indifferent towards Christianism, as far as it is not identical with Western culture.

But, being an American, perhaps you can answer this question: what exactly is the fundamental difference between Bush and Breivik?
I see one difference: Bush had important friends.
It seems there was another difference: Breivik was on his own, Bush got a coalition. But that is not really true. Bush wanted to go alone on his crusade. It was Powell who forced Bush at the UNO-trail.
Do you see other differences?
Thanks everyone for you comments. I appreciate all of your points of view.

As I said, I think the moderates, the reasonable people of the world are our best hope. The problem is that the religious fundamentalists are the only ones who truly believe the ancient texts and, therefore, have the only claim to legitimacy. That, in my mind, is a big problem.

If you take the good and leave the bad from those texts, that's a wonderful thing but if they are truly divine, then you aren't really a believer if you do that. Since I don't think you are wrong to do so, then the logical conclusion is that those texts are the superstitious ramblings of ancient people, full of good wisdom buried under a bed of hateful insanity.

Either those texts are God's word or they are not, plain and simple. It's disingenuous to think they can be both. That was my real thesis.
Well, let's see. The far leftists in the U.S. took the position that 9/11 was not an act of wonton aggression, but rather a defensive protest against U.S. meanness toward Islam as manifest by its support of Israel.

So by the same token, perhaps the Mad Norweigan is simply reacting defensively to all the nasty things that Islamic terrorists have done and are doing.

Nothing like following a theory to its local extension to expose how truly stupid it is.
@ GordO - what's Chinese soup got to do with aggression?
Is it possible that the "enemy" as Walsh states, is not fundamentalism, but rather humanity? Man's inhumanity to man is certainly not new. Moreover, we've invented myriad cures intended to rid civilization of the most deplorable characteristics humanness, most of them worse than the disease.

The real fallacy and pipe-dream is thinking that with enough education, the perfect diet, improved socio-economic status, or letting the enlightened chattering class run our life, we can perfect humanness humanely. Admonitions about "the middle ground" and "reason" are ironically "fundamentalist" in their own right.

Reason and logic can tell me how to build a children's hospital, or it can tell me how to build a gas chamber; but they don't inform which one is "better" or "right".

The heart of the human problem is the problem of the human heart.
Damn! Caught again. Thanks, grif, for the correction.
You seem to be saying that you can't distinguish right from wrong without God. Is that right?
Agreed. Wholeheartedly. Congrats on the cover!
The killer is not a Christian. He says himself that he is not very religious. The fact that he is not Muslim may make him a Christian in some foggy minds, but he is not. Do not try to pin this one on us! Thank you!
JC: "The point is not that a Muslim person is not afforded the Bill of Right. The point is that the Bill of Rights does not provide protection or defense of criminal activity by claiming "my religious law allows me to violate the gov laws. "

Where do you get from what I said that I believe that the Bill of Rights should provide protection or defense of criminal activity by claiming "my religious law allows me to violate the gov laws? That's not what I said at all. The Bill of Rights statement was in the context of building Mosques. I did not even vaguely imply that we should allow anyone to break the law in the name of religion. Quite the contrary.

I just saw a Bill O'Reilly clip in that you seem to have parroted in you other comments: http://tinyurl.com/3hnlaut
From the New York Times:

OSLO — The Norwegian man charged Saturday with a pair of attacks in Oslo that killed at least 92 people left behind a detailed manifesto outlining his preparations and calling for a Christian war to defend Europe against the threat of Muslim domination, according to Norwegian and American officials familiar with the investigation.

As stunned Norwegians grappled with the deadliest attack in the country since World War II, a portrait began to emerge of the suspect, Anders Behring Breivik, 32. The police identified him as a right-wing fundamentalist Christian, while acquaintances described him as a gun-loving Norwegian obsessed with what he saw as the threats of multiculturalism and Muslim immigration.
The fundamental of Christianity is "love others as you want to be loved", the fundamental of Islam is obedience. People who kill other people in the name of their God are not fundamentalists. They have subverted the meaning of their religion and twisted it for their own purposes. The are, therefore, heretics.
I knew it would not take long for you guys to jump on this bandwagon. Try and have your free speech in an Islamic country. Try being gay in an Islamic country. Try opening anything other than a Mosque in an Islamic country. Yet you all just HAVE to attack Christianity.

Science itself proves that the existence of God is a possibility; due to their not being able to prove the big bang theory and what caused the big bang. At one point, something always had to Be. Science cannot prove what it is and where it came from. It was always just there. By their own admonition, they are proving that God was just always there and the big bang was from God speaking everything into existence. Face it, you cannot get something from nothing, which means at one point, something had to always have existed. A super dense particle or God, each one is equally possible. If it is a super dense molecule, you will be alright, as you will just die. If it is God, you have chosen poorly grasshopper, and will have a destiny of eternal torment. The choice is yours.
Get rid of religion and all its "superstition" and what do you have left? You have ideology, among other things, that can, does, and definitily has bred violent extremism rooted in baseless (ie., factless or superstitious) notions. You don't need religion in the traditional sense to behave badly. Stalin didn't, and neither really did Chairman Mao, or Pol Pot. You just have to believe strongly enough in the rightness of your cause or your power, no matter how deluded.
I don't think "Fundamentalism" is the word you are looking for. "Ideology" is the word you are looking for.
Good luck ridding the world of that.
@MajorMojo: Yes. I'm saying the author of the universe has writ the laws of right and wrong on your heart. Whether we individually acknowledge them, or follow them, are matters of choice. Moreover, I'm stating that a system of morality predicated on ethical monotheism is preferable to a system of morality determined by you, me, Joan Walsh, or Breivik.

I'm also saying that there's little evidence that "reason" and "moderation" are sufficient to secure a humane society. Fundamentalism is no more an explanation for the Norway shootings than reason, science, or medicine are the blame for the Gulag archipelago, napalm, or Dr. Mengele. Likewise, a "moderate" approach is impotent to deal with issues such as genocide, slavery, or rape.
Mojo - I never parrot Bill O or anyone else. I guess I missed your point because you did not talk about the building of Mosques . I read it as rights of people . My mistake,