It is always about Bill isn't it? Story of Hilary's life.

She should've kicked him to the curb after the Monica scandal broke.

I think any serious consideration of Hillary for VP would have discovered that she was the only thing that could have united Republicans against the Democratic ticket.

Totally agree with you Christopher!!

I don't know. My feeling was that it might have been difficult to sell a black man and a woman to a country such as ours at the same time. Guess I was wrong.
R

And as I understand it, Bill's side jobs with the Clinton Foundation etc. posed complications, particularly in the fundraising areas.

My grandmother --now passed away, discovered my grandfather was carrying on a heated affair with a woman in the neighborhood. A housewife with no marketable skills, she enrolled in a program at the local hospital to become Registered Nurse. Hospitals offered such programs back in the 1950's. She told my grandfather she was trying to help pay-off the house and put money away for retirement. Long story short, once she obtained her state license and was working, she filed for divorce and relocated to another state -- alone. This was pretty damned ballsy if you ask me. I loved hearing my grandmother tell this story. She was truly inspirational. She was a feminist long before there was such a label.

I love your grandmother! Hilary chose the opposite road and I don't think it's been much fun for her.

Whoa, Christopher.

Could it be that you're not giving Hillary OR Barack Obama enough credit? Could it be that she didn't want the VP spot?

How do we know that she didn't purposely and affectedly negotiate that SOS position at the private meeting at Diane Feinstein's house? Her full support for that position?

Hillbots? Really? I for one would love to see any vestige of the misogynistic bullshit I saw from fellow Democrats during this last election fade from the conversation. I voted for Dennis and then Obama. I'm not a, what was that offensive word you used ... a "hillbot", but this stuff, the idea that Hilary Clinton, in some way, wouldn't be able to be a separate entity without her husband ... I find it atrociously sexist.

And considering the way she's doing her job presently, clearly, that assumption, that Bill would be the VP instead of Hilary, is complete crap. I believe she's doing that job she has now by herself. Wow. Just like any other person doing a job would.

I wish eventually we could eradicate the sexist crap as well as all the rest.

Blue Roses -- Possibly. I based this piece on David Plouffe's new book and since he was Obama's campaign manager, I assume he knows what he's talking about.

odetteroulette -- And I wish I was a Kennedy with a trust fund. I think you should travel beyond Salon and see some of the insane comments from the Hillbots charging Obama with all sort of criminal behavior for not selecting Hillary including "misogyny." That's the problem with PC speech. It's too narrow.

Unless someone here, including you, Mr. DiSpirito, is a primary source for information regarding President Obama's decision to choose Mr. Biden as his running mate, then this "piece," and the flurry of predictable comments attached to it, represents mere speculation. Bad enough that CNN can stretch a story by way of repetition. Why might anyone here want to waste time with yet more speculation? Enough already.

Since David Plouffe was on the ground, with Barack Obama over a two year period, and this is his book and his words, Mr. Toscano, then I think we can feel fairly confident that there is a high level of veracity.

Bill was indiscreet. The GOP loved that and cranked it to the top. If he hadn't been beleagured by the stupidity of White Water and the non-event of Monica Lewinsky, he might have been a great president.

Hey, you're the name-caller, not me. I think that says much, much more about you than, apparently, you can possibly imagine.

And I get out plenty; thanks for your patronizing advice. I know. I'm a woman. We're so dumb; can't do anything without our man. I know that's the feeling of many.

But just as it's important we have gay rights and gay marriage and equal rights and good behavior towards people of color, I think it's pretty damned important we recognize the problem of sexism in our country. Don't you?

What you've posted is an excellent example of sexism. I'd prefer to stay out of the 1950s, frankly, in terms of the attitude you're discussing, thanks.

Come on now... the man who cheated and bought Obama's way there is now writing a book (not waiting for the money) WHILE in the White House - and you believe what he says? Hillary didn't want second fiddle you fools. Why do you think he and she slipped the press corp and met secretly? She knew that job was pathetic.

Mr. Pluffe - the man who, with Axelrove at the lead cheated their horse to the finish line. Michigan and Florida folks. She won. They REFUSED to count those states. Gore 2000 Democrat style. Super Delegates. They depended on your naivete during all the lies (NAFTA, FISA, deaf dumb and blind in church for twenty years, didn't borrow a speech from Patrick) and they depended on your forgetting about Michigan and Florida - the trashing of our system of government. The boys club had their candidate and he was gonna win no matter how he popped out of nowhere with no money and no experience and only his black populous support. Even with them, their trashing of her, their money and all the money they found for him, their Super Tuesday ambush by about five of them - he still lost. But, I must say, he can lie like the guy before him - and, with more than a smirk... with smiley face. Can't blame him. He put it over on everyone.

Odette, perhaps you should look at the situation a different way. Rather than saying, "Oh, Hillary couldn't do the VP job without Bill's help," why don't you try, "Hillary wouldn't be able to do the VP job because of Bill's interference." I think that is the point people are making; I said it myself during the race. Bill is too accustomed to power, to having been President, etc., and I am not sure HE would have been able to resign himself to being "the VP's husband." I honestly think HE would have made a nuisance of himself and possibly caused problems.

So I don't think anyone in this article is deliberately being misogynistic; I think maybe you are looking at it from the wrong angle.

Just my $0.02.

Christopher Di Spirito wrote:
"Since David Plouffe was on the ground, with Barack Obama over a two year period, and this is his book and his words, Mr. Toscano, then I think we can feel fairly confident that there is a high level of veracity."

Of course, Mr. Di Spirito. Mr. Plouffe is most definitely a primary source. You, however, are not; and neither am I, nor is anyone else here who comments on the few paragraphs you wrote about this book (i.e. your "piece"). So, my first question remains: Why speculate further? Why not instead write a book report, or even a book review? Of what particular value is repeating Mr. Plouffe's words? Better to say, "I read this book. I liked it. I think you might like it, as well." Forget the words of warning to the so-called Hillbots. Those words signify nothing more than an angry attempt to exacerbate a dead battle.

"The boys club had their candidate and he was gonna win no matter how he popped out of nowhere with no money and no experience and only his black populous support."
I'm inclined to agree with thinksfast. A Democrat wonk told me that HRC could not win the election. Apparently sexism is more endemic in our society than racism. Of course, winning is everything. I don't think it was about Bill. Hillary was the more qualified, experienced candidate. Putting her in a subordinate role like VP would have been like reinacting the Bush-Cheney administration, except of course Hillary isn't as ruthless as Dick.

"It is always about Bill isn't it? Story of Hilary's life."

Yup, but that was, and has continued to be, her choice. Third-wave feminism demands that we not "judge" (i.e. offer advice against or criticize) a woman's choices, but it cannot protect her from the inevitable consequences of poor choices.

Personally, I'm glad Hillary didn't become the first woman vice-president. I'd have hated to see her held up as a role model to my future daughters.

my feet are planted firmly with odetteroullette. Anyone who needs to call someone a "hillbot" to make their point doesn't trust their own logic alone to make the argument for them. That says a lot about the argument (or the person) not so much for the persons described.

(and I voted for Obama and similarly hated the obamaphiles name calling during the election...)

christopher di spirito I really like the story of your grandmother. but a feminist doesn't "have to" leave or stay with a cheating spouse. the whole point is that they can decide for themselves based on particulars that likely nobody but themselves and their partners will ever know.

But do you see how unfair it is to judge a politician on the basis of whether or not they leave their spouse for cheating? I didn't vote for Hillary but I do respect her ability to ignore all the vile things that are said about her, including those by liberals. And whatever her decision was based on in maintaining her marriage is firmly in the far-be-it from me to judge category. Let's get on with judging people by the work that they do and not our warped perceptions of their personal lives.

I don't think that's the real real reason Obama didn't pick her. He didn't pick her because he didn't want want anybody next to him that would overshadow or eclipse his spotlight.

-Nikki-

for the record, the term "Hillbots" is offensive to me too.

I voted for Obama. Name-calling is just name-calling. There are smarter ways to make an argument.

At least she would have been a competent vp.
These days Bill's pretty busy doing good things around the world--did Obama feel threatened by Hillary's competence? She could have shortened his learning curve!

What I sense for the last 3 or more blogging years is that a lot of you folks are still sore with Bubbah Bill for your own precarious selfish reasons or some....
Listen.. I´m not Bill and neither are you..
so why can you respect" me.. but not Bill ??
I´ve been pissing into other pots and so have my 2 wifes.... encountered other pissers....
If you look at the animal world you´ll find that all males make it with other females because they get "sidetracked" and so many females go side- track because of lack of attention.... Hey.. you didn´t know ??

the "why" is correct.... Obama would be a fool to select her as his sidekick... She would outshine by light years....
Donah & the GripeVine....

Outshine HIM.....

Bill had nothing to do with the decision. It was Obama's inability to figure out how to fit Bill into the picture that was the problem.

The term "hilbot" is appropriate for thinksfast.

If anyone cheated in Michigan and Florida it was Clinton who kept her name on the ballot after all the candidates agreed not to participate because those 2 states moved the dates of their primaries. They broke the rules, and they could have just as easily had their delegates disqualified. Clinton wanted to change the rules in the middle of the game. That's cheating. Using the rules to your advantage is politics. Thinksfast should be pissed at the people who wrote the DNC rules (controlled by Clinton allies and supporters) not at Obama.

It's ironic, the one year where it mattered more to be later, FL and MI broke the rules and moved up, costing them a chance to be more relevent than ever.

(full disclosure: I live in Iowa and caucused for Obama. Say what you will about the Iowa caucuses, but the rules had us going first, and FL and MI where they were originally scheduled.)

Hope she reconsiders & runs for Prez. in 2016. I'd stomp for her, she can rest on vacat in 2024.

Don´t bet on herr... she will.. in ´12 and retire in ´20 to take Chelsey´s breed to the zoo for "education while Bill - not even near senility won´t have to count his global earnings which the world will do for him and store it all in the Federal Reserve to rebuild the economy with "real" cash to replace all Obama phony printed dollars.... You guys just watch this pair of "entrepeneurs". Carnegy is nothing compared to their "collecting power".... Donah.. from the GripeVine..//

Again. what beats me in Di Shapiro´s grandma´s story is the omission of facts why she stayed while getting some "education" with grampa while all the time she was planning for her "escape".... If.. (and I have no "indications") she was still going to bed with him.. then I think the story is not fake but definitely "you know.... !!" Oh yes... both my late wives told me.... "Love" is just d u s t !!
From the GripeVine....

OMG! Will Hillary ever get out of Bill's shadow? Ever? Probably not. She should have gotten rid of him while she had the chance. Now she's hamstrung. Kim