I haven't dated in over 20 years. But here's how I remember it. Men like you to express interest, to 'pick' them in a way where then they still get to do the asking without feeling the risk of being rejected. Anyway, everyone can use friends.

When I decided to move Dan from friend status, I invited him over to dinner with a couple of other friends. I brought up the potential for us being more than just friends. That was just about this time of year in 1990. We were married 12/31/90. He would have never made the first move if I hadn't made it safe for him.

How about... co-director. It is, in fact, flattering to be pursued now and again. Still, there has to be a balance, I think, to keep it interesting, in the long run.

For us soon-to-be separated/divorced folk, it might actually be a reassurance to us that we're worth being interested in if a woman asked us on a date.

Relationship questions, I think, should be mutual. Call us, but don't be creepy ;)

And I don't think there's a sane man alive who wouldn't love to be dragged into the bedroom, once things get going.

Thanks for following up on my post -good one!

(Btw - the "series" is called Divorceland...)

- Darkside

It's ironic men only are tagged with the label of not saying what they feel. Women are just the same only it's socially acceptable for them to be silent.

Two people don't need any reason to want to be together other than they want to be together. It's when we start contriving every move or question that we find ourselves in trouble. One simple rule has always worked for me and I have handed this out for free to anyone interested in getting involved with someone but is questioning what is going on or how things are proceeding. If the behavior you are witnessing or having to up with would be unacceptable from your friends, then this is not going to end up in any relationship at all. Relationship is an elevated version of a deep friendship with added benefits. If there is no friendship, there is no foundation for a relationship at all.

In my opinion, you don't need to be the "director" but you should be a full fledged active participant with equal time in the driver's seat. Frankly the passive, "do with me what you want... I am at your disposal" approach gets old very fast. These days, I don't chase anyone. I may indicate a level of interest and if I feel that it is returned in equal measure.. we may have a shot.

For either sex being pursued is all about WHO is pursuing you. No matter how much you may enjoy being chased, it is only fun if it is the right person!

Once caught, initiating sex should be done by both, either and every combination in between.

There are no set rules that apply across the board for either sex.

Thanks for sharing that suzanne. Congrats to you and Dan -- and I'll keep your story in mind!

Darkside -- noted! Good series! And thanks for pointers!

I'd say yes.

Sometimes I feel like I put in all the starting effort and that society expects it.

Among other things, I'm currently trying online dating. I was talking to a female friend about some clunky bits of my profile and she commented on how nobody sent her a message (on the same dating site) for about a week.

After talking for a while, it came out that she didn't even look at profiles, except the ones of people that messaged her.

On the other hand, I am totally jealous of a friend of mine, who met his wife because she walked up to him at a college dance and said "I pick this one" and smooched him (married 10 years now with 2 kids). That did have several classes together, so it wasn't random.

Ok, the last one was a bit extreme.

But guys don't get chased that much in my experience. Many would like to be. Some will be really put off by it though. I wonder if it is generational.

I know i SHOULD be dating.
Not meeting the right sort of eligible women is a great excuse.
So is being too old for the bar scene.
And in spite of OEsheepdog's success, I'm inclined to think that online dating is fraught with risk, not to mention too much work, because I'm too busy too old too jaded to redo "Fifty first dates".
And, the sloppy dangling ending with the STBX blew off all my married friends. If she didn't make a pass at them, she swore at their wives, or the wives knew she was trouble, whatever.
No single guy friends to use as a winger either.
gave up almost all my hobbies to be both Mom & Dad.
I'm easily confused by friendship v romance.

and it was the STBX who picked me in the first place. Which is evidence that I like to be pursued. though not of reliable judgment.

So yeah, I'd love if a women would step up. And clue me in when I'm clueless.

Because the kiddos won't be around to entertain me forever.

But Harry Homeless, you didn't say anything! But thanks for reading! Point.

Cartouche, I get what you're saying. Maybe that's been the problem...accepting behavior I'd find unacceptable from friends. Thanks for some spectacular insight

Speaking not especially about myself but what I have seen in guys I know, who are not exactly a random sample of the population, I rush to add:

With guys, as with women, they probably only want to be pursued by people who are plausible matches. Being pursued by someone who you're sure you aren't interested in for whatever reason is annoying. So it's not an easy answer where one answer works always. Also, some guys, as a matter of style, may not want to be pursued. Others may be shy and like that. Being pursued isn't just ceremony, it also allows someone to save face while they contemplate the issue without having to commit to a position one way or another.

I doubt most guys care about all of this "wait to call" thing per se. If you're going to call, call. If you're not don't. Deborah Tannen has written a lot about gender differences between men and women. She says women communicate as an end in itself, while men communicate to convey information. That's an overgeneralization but not without foundation; and there are some women with male styles and vice versa. But she observes that most women asked to name a best friend will name someone they've talked to in the last couple of days, while men will often name someone they haven't talked to in years. This is a material difference in style. Men, she says, and I largely agree, expect that the state of a relationship will remain in stasis when you haven't had intervening conversation, while women, she says (and it seems to match my observations but I won't try to generalize there) will assume that relationships degrade if not tended to by day to day or sometimes moment-to-moment chattiness. So in a sense, men are (probably not by DNA but by socialization) prone to be less conscious of time passage in between communications and more conscious of whether a communication conveys actual information. (Personally, I'm somewhere in between, being more chatty than average guys and yet not finding it essential. People do vary. But it's a detail to notice.)

However, guys might have other things to do and many express a want to have “space” to be themselves. Some of that is playing the field and may get masked in there, but some of it may be work or personal time or things with other guys. So some may interpret the time between contacts as a measure of how much time they'll be left with... if you call right away, they may conclude you'll need time all the time. (If you do, you might as well admit that up front, though.) I think this is not about the pace of romance, but about a cold assessment of how life will play out, though it might work out to the same in terms of advising you to sometimes wait between calls. I think the difference is that most guys would be more likely to be fine with a brief call to just confirm data rather than fidgeting and wondering. "Hey, I was just calling to let you know I'm gonna be gone for a week. We'll be cool until I get back, right?" will probably work better for the traditionally masculine communication style than the traditionally feminine. Most guys are taught to call not to chat but to communicate information. A statement like that communicates information so works well.

Gender roles are changing, of course, so this is hardly scientific. But I assume you're planning to average over responses. Plus, if you're talking middle aged dating you're probably talking about people who weren't raised on the newer ways. I think life is getting much more even-handed about many of these things.

But I really recommend Tannen's books That's not what I meant and You just don't understand. I listened them in abridged audio and they were really great. They help you to understand a great number of miscommunications that can happen.

Hi Cindy, very interesting post. While I no long have to think about this (thank god), I don't think there's a right answer. Let me offer a bit of perspective. I starting dating around the time of the women's movement of the early 1970s. Several paradigm shifts were taking place. While I was taught to stand up when I woman enters a room, hold doors open, and other courtesy behaviors, young women who were embracing the women's movement rejected this behavior as chauvinistic. So at the time, as a young man, I received a lot of mixed messages. For the record I haven't modified my behavior when it comes to courtesy.

This dance between the sexes always seems to be fraught with peril. If you are interested in someone refgardless what gender label you wear, by all means let them know it. How many songs have been written about one person being in love with another and the other being completely oblivious?

Life is too freakin' short, and we're not getting any younger. Well, I'm not anyway. There's risk involved, but I think it's better to take action and live with the consequences, than look back and say "if only."

@cartouche you're absolutely right about the friendship being the foundation of the relationship. My wife is my best friend. I could be married to her if it were otherwise.

@brian, if you want something special you are going to have to work for it. I must have looked at over 1000 profiles before I found the woman who has become my wife. The key is to be focused on what you want and ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES.

Remember you don't get what you want unless you ask for it.

My old dating problem is that I was pursued by women I didn't want. Not that they weren't attractive or interesting, but often they had personal problems I didn't want to co-opt with my problems. Also, I'm utterly clueless when a girl likes me.

A woman would have to say, "We should go out sometime" or "I'd really like to screw your brains out." for me to get a clue.

I was raised by 40's - 50's era parents, so when a girl called me when I was a teen, they said I shouldn't get involved with a girl that aggressive. I had to get over my distrust of forthright women and I found they were more compatible with me, since I'm bit reserved.

I dont know about other guys, but when it comes to women "stepping up," I definitely think it's a turn-on...given the right woman. Everyone's different, though, regardless of gender. I think the basics have to be covered no matter what. Respect, honesty, keeping "games" to an absolute minimum, etc. I'm 29 and single, but recently had the pleasure of meeting and dating someone really cool who I met online. We both made a "pact" at the beginning of our correspondence to not play the silly little games we used to play in our early 20's with prospective dating partners. Of course, we had the benefit of knowing right away that we were into each other.
Anywho, I'm a firm believer in women taking initiative when it comes to the bedroom. Granted, I like to play the dominant role, but sometimes there's nothing sexier than a woman who I'm into letting me know what she wants physically and taking charge. Role reversal is an aphrodisiac all in itself. But hey, that's just my opinion.

When I was single, I never asked a woman out who didn't flirt with me first or show some tangible level of interest. Yes, it's flattering to be pursued, but that seemed pretty rare, in my experience. So I basically agree with darkside. In my experience, nothing would make me run faster than the dreaded "mixed messages," "playing hard to get" or any obvious sign of non-interest. If turned down for a date, I never asked again. I generally jumped into new relationships head first, and if the woman was at all aggressive, that just made things that much easier and less confusing. I could generally tell within two weeks whether things would be worth getting serious or not; and the sooner I could figure that out, the better, in my opinion.

The short answer to your question is: Yes. I like to be pursued from time to time. And yes, like several other commentators, the enjoyment of being pursued is dependant on whether I want this person to pursue me. It's awkward if I don't want that attention. But I view this as a trade off. Gender roles are changing and men and women are experiencing the annoyances of the other half.

I'm okay with having to possibly find a delicate way of saying: "Let's just be friends", especially it means I'm not always the one expected to stick my neck out there, risking the crash and burn.

I meant to infer both sides should speak since it's logically impossible to get together if neither side speaks and you gave it as a given the man is speaking in your scenario, ergo women should not be silent - which is what I meant to say.

I don't think much good comes from asking what men (or women) want if your goal is a lasting relationship. Every individual is different. If you're looking to do lots of dating, playing to the average is probably a good idea. If you're looking for something long term, I think you're better off asking what you want.

My soon-to-be-wife and I were friends for years before we became a couple. She used to entertain me with stories of her dating life in a very traditional and rural area. She's a beautiful, brilliant, unstoppable force of nature who couldn't be the traditionally feminine blushing dumure little thing that a lot of guys around here want if she tried. The sad thing, though, is that she did try and experienced her share of unpleasant relationships and self loathing as a result.

I'm definitely on board with those who say that a romantic partnership is friendship with the platinum premium package thrown it. I think most people would do well to worry less about what they're supposed be, stay true to their own styles, and just pursue what they want.

For the record, I've always loved it when a woman is aggressive - whether in the first stages of flirting or in the bedroom in a long term relationship. I also like it when a woman follows my lead. Variety is good. Most importantly, I - like probably most everyone - have always been attracted to women who are genuine and comfortable in their own skins. I've fallen for quiet introverts who like to sit back and observe and larger than life extroverts who love to be the center of attention, but the confidence to act naturally is always sexy.

Good point harp. I guess no one really *wants* to chase.

but I think traigus makes a point too that some of is generational, that guys tend to do the pursuing from the start and don't get chased that much, even online (i know I used to sit and wait...) hmm..

'Should' is a tough word brian. i think you have to be a little ready. and it is effort. and time consuming.

and yes, i guess the 'who' is very important!!

Cindy: I think i'm more than a little ready, just not a lot ready...if I wait til I'm a lot ready, I'll be cruisin the halls of the nursing home...

I hate to say it, but my experience has been that game-playing is essential to dating. It's a huge pain in the ass, but being direct and/or aggressive completely backfired on me. Then again, the men I'm generally attracted to are alpha males, so it may just be that in order to date an alpha man you have to let him be, well, alpha.

Who doesn't want to be desired/admired? If my wife hadn't approached me, we would not be together. I thought she was too wonderful/perfect/above me.

Thank God I she didn't think that way.

My dating memory's still intact after 27 years of marriage and I don't think human nature changes that much. Friendship has been noted here, rightly so as it's the critical foundation of a good reationship. If you set your expectation to finding a man you can enjoy and trust as a friend, the rest will follow .. or not. The guy might need a push, but if you're already friends, it won't be that hard.

Good luck! (No grannies panties til at least 20 years of marriage. ;)

A friend of my husband's who is still single at 40 definately wants to be pursued. He joins those dating sites and then waits for the women to contact him. He is an aging but still attractive pretty boy so he gets attention this way.
On the other hand, during the brief time I tried a dating website, I stopped pursuing men because they never responeded. In general I would say that pursuing men on dating websites is not going to be fruitful much of the time.
For the record, I made the first phone call to my husband after we met. He flirted with me and gave me his phone number, so I called. I left a phone message and suggested we meet for breakfast.

Cindy, I may actually have to blog this, because I've got a lot to say. But for me (and only for me), being the initiator/pursuer has generally been the pattern I feel most comfortable with.

The couple of times in my life when I've been a pursue-ee were both weird and/or unpleasant.

I much prefer being in control--to choose the potential partner, set the parameters, determine the pace.

And back when I was dating, any bloody "chivalrous" a-hole who refused to split the bill on the first date got tossed. (Dude. I'm a big girl with my own money, I do not need to be taken care of, we don't know each other yet, and I don't want to feel that I owe you anything. Shut the fuck up and let me lay down my cash. One protestation is cute. Stubborn insistence that you WILL pay the bill no matter what I want is an indication that you're more hung up on your own agenda than creating a shared one. BUZZ.)

Yes. They do. (Answering the post title question.)

hmmm. Thanks for all those very good points ken. i don't know why it's sometimes hard for me to call (and i've heard some women say it too). maybe we don't want to be seen as the all-dreaded "too needy"? Better to be stand-offish than needy! I've heard of of the Tannen books and always thought they'd be better reading if done in a couple sitch ... you (and she) bring up some points (sorry to overuse the word "points" argh!) -- the whole "space" issue. I need space. Maybe just not as much... Leanred a lot form your post.

Sheep, (so happy for you, btw, inspired me to give the online thing another go-round). You're right. What a shame it would be to be silent. Certainly not getting any younger either. Amazing how the years seem to multiply after, like, 38 or so.... no matter.

Anthony, that's funny! I guess sometimes the blunt approach is best, eh? Even at the risk of rejection. We all get pursued by those we'd rather no be. I guess it's better than not being pursued at all....

interesting, laff. The pact at the beginning... that could work. Role reversals too. you must be a good communicator.

Well Blake, that's good to know. It seems there's an overall mixed response here, but it seems a little "stepping up" is a relief for many guys who are either, wary of rejection or just tired of having had to make the first moves all the time. ( jeeze i need a freaking playbook!)

Thanks for the cute column. As a Huge Queer watching this game from a seat so far from the field that it's arguably in the parking lot, I'm always fascinated by what women and men do or don't get up to. Straight friends seem amused by this... "He's got his anthropologist hat on - quick, order him another scotch."

Having listened to some of them, I think many straight guys would like it if you would just quit with the constant questions. I think they'll weep with relief if you just go ahead and want something - anything - without first discussing all the life out of it. The problem isn't whether or not you strike up a conversation with a guy, but with the need to first poll him about it to make sure it's ok.

When going out to dinner, never, ever ask "Where shall we eat?" It sounds like consideration, but in fact it's urban life's second-most infuriating question - number one being all variations on, "What would you say if I asked you out?" It's not so much a question as an admission of cowardice so trivial that pity or contempt are the only possible responses.

Try, "I'm desperate for Mexican! Take me to your enchilada or I'll die." Of course you risk hearing "Mexican gives me gas," but that at least gives you a valid position from which to say, "Ok, then what do _you_ want?"

"Do you want me to want you?" is so self involved as to be insulting. "Do you want me to tell you I want you?" is self referential to a degree guaranteed to induce paralysis. More importantly, if every hetero male on earth stood up right now and shouted "Ask me out!" with one voice, it wouldn't make a single woman feel any safer doing so. It isn't safe and it never will be, but adrenaline is a taste anyone can acquire with practice

Get clear that when you want someone, you're honoring him whether he knows it or not. If he panics or calls you a slut, the only sane response is "Pearls before swin." Desire is always a compliment, and while tact is admirable, courage is more so.

What people want from each other in this context is the same across gender, orientation, history, culture, or geography, for a night or for 50 years: to be able to trust that the other person's feelings are real. And actions will always speak louder than words.

bryan -- you rock (god I hate that term but it's the first that comes to mind). makes so much sense! A eureka moment. (i'm speaking in cliches now. too many paragragraphs nailed together at the factory. and i can't spell. beautiful). Thanks for your thought-out response that (why not) is a home run. (but i so love polls all the same! quick1 what do you remember more -- your first kiss or your first car? hmmm maybe that's another blog!)

Verbal, that's oh-so-interesting! i look forward to your blog on that topic! I want to learn! I want to pick 'em instead of being picked. Lousy track record I have ... mostly pursued by guys I didn't want (and stayed longer than I should've). Was stalked. And then when I met someone I clicked with, he lied, cheated and messed with my head over and over and over ... Teach me teach me! (I'm sure others need to know too!)

Brian, I don't know much, but I do know you don't want to wait for the nursing home days! Maybe just jump right in. The beginning can be fun.

I like your style Whisper! Nice balance. this friendship into relationship...something to that I guess.

Thanks for the clarification harry!

"It is not so much the desire to be pursued as the desire to get permission to proceed..." this makes a lot of sense neil!!

The onlh pursuing I ever did: I played bar shuffleboard with a boy/man in college. Winner called stakes. The sparks flew so hard, the stakes were obvious. Whoever won was going to ask the other home. (Note: I'm a slut, but this was a long-term, unrequited crush, not a stranger.)

He won, thankfully, so I didn't have to verbalize.

"being direct and/or aggressive completely backfired on me." I guess this is what I've been afraid of, swillingaway

Sally, that friendship thing keeps coming back! Thanks for the reminder. (and you're right about granny panties haha)

ya know Denise, I recall having a similar experience on datin sites -- anyone i emailed didn't respond. yet when i just hung out -- responses came in. oh, there are just no easy answers online.

thank you, she lied. I will keep that in mind. (I think i have to graph this ... the journalist in me can't help it)