I’m trying to sort out all the OS rumors flying around and have read some pretty harsh statements about this website. Since I’m not a computer geek, I have a difficult time crying about spam. When it shows up on one of my rare (as of late) posts, I just delete them. I can’t make spam go away, so I don’t worry about it. I’m losing a lot of hair lately, and can do nothing about that either. There’s spam. There’s baldness. Life goes on.
Technical difficulties aside, the most troubling criticisms come from those feel that many of us don’t make the cut. I say troubling, not so much because my itsy-bitsy little feelings are hurt. Troubling because there are those among us who wish for the apple to be an orange. It will never be an orange and how frustrating that must be for them. How sad.
From the traveler: “The writers break down into different groups, some small percentage of people who write pretty well and who, if they could get a paying job writing or find a better environment, would probably skip in a moment. There is a very large group of people who write passably enough for other passable writers to enjoy them but not enough to really draw any fan base.
I agree with this assessment. OS is a very diverse writing group. I think this is a good thing. In the few months I have been here I have laughed hysterically and quite literally wept. I would argue against the “skip in a moment” part. Among her many other credits, Caitlin Kelly has written a couple of books like “Malled: My Unintentional Career in Retail” She uses OS to promote her work. When she’s not doing that, she’s honing her craft with social commentary. She has also posted several “How To” articles for wanna-be’s like me. Thank you Caitlin. Is this a BAD thing?
There is another revolving group of people who write really terribly but who either write until they get bored because no one reads them and drop out or who write the agony Annie kinds of columns that draw the readers who want to give emotional support to a wounded soul.”
I like “agony Annie.” I have a very ill daughter who causes herself and her family a kind of agony only another agonized person can appreciate. There is a therapeutic value to sharing both the good and the bad. Special thanks to Susam Creamer Joy and rjheart for helping my wounded soul. If somebody has ripped your heart out of your chest and thrown it on the ground and stomped on it, write about it, because it’s happened to me and I want to read it. Is this a BAD thing?
Yes, there is terrible non-sensical writing. In the opinions of some, perhaps mine qualifies. If you feel that way, let me know. I’d like to learn from you.That’s why I’m here. And the therapy too.
Make me laugh. Make me cry. Make me think. Rip my heart out. Rip your heart out. Just write for crying out loud!
http://open.salon.com/blog/the_traveler/2010/12/04 a_reply_to_merger_talk_by_kerry#comment_2143311
Dear the traveler: Please don’t be offended. I chose your post because it reflects the views of many others here. It’s nothing personal.
Most importantly for me, I have learned a lot about the craft of writing. I posted a piece of fiction and asked for criticism. I got what I asked for in spades. It was not all warm fuzzy hugs, which is decidedly NOT what I was after. I wanted the truth, warts and all. I filed them all in my “Writing Class” folder along with a bazillion other cut-and-pastes I’ve plucked from OS. (ALWAYS careful to include author credits, thank you very much.) From that post I got offers from two very accomplished OS writers to edit my work for me. I would include their names here but don’t feel that is my prerogative. You know who you are and thanks for your kindness.
How can you ignore this from Xenonlit XL:
“I've sold articles and have become a legitimate freelance writer. I have also been liberally plagiarized, too. My SEO is good to go. My novel was actually dusted off and set to its final redraft. I am a writer. ” (boldface mine)
And also:
“But Open Salon is a bit ahead when it comes to the benefits that this place has offered to a rough writer who became a bona fide and published freelancer, defender against spam, and Pirate Wimmin.”
I really dig a Pirate Wimmin. Fun is good. If I want stuffy, I’ll go to the New Yorker website. Check out Xenon’s two year anniversary celebration blog:
http://open.salon.com/blog/zumalicious 2010/12/05thanks_open_salon_my_two_year_blogiversary
Dear Kerry Lauerman:
Thank you. Open Salon is my Swiss Army Knife for the brain. If I want to learn, I can learn here. If I want to clown around, I can do that too. If I want to post the Great American Novel, well, I don’t think you’ll mind, will you? I need to get to work on that don’t I? Open Salon is anything I want it to be and that’s where it’s beauty lies. Please don’t let it fail. I’ll name my next kid after you.
Respectfully,
Conrad Capto
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rated with hugs
NOTHING. OS can suck my smooth botoxed balls!
Totally.
That sums it up for me. The spam is irritating, and sometimes the cover gets on my nerves, and there are people here who bug me(just as I'm sure I bug plenty of people too), but I've looked all over the Web for a site comparable to OS, and the plain truth is that there isn't one. This place is unique, and whatever happens I'll be here 'til they turn the lights out and lock the doors for good.
Just because I'm a sucky writer doesn't mean that I can't enjoy doing it. If somebody has an issue with that (as certain cited people and their ilk obviously do) that is just as sign of a personal inferiority complex, constipation or both. So I'd suggest that they get a large dose of prunes and a bigger dose of a sense of humor.
P.S. Trig, I could have lived my entire life without knowing you botox your balls. I am now going to borrow Conrad's "Swiss Army Knife for for the brain" and cut that visual out of my head.
Nice font.
{[R]}
Rated.
This is a great site and I love that humanity comes to write of their experiences and dreams.... Who gives a flying toot if it's prize-winning writing? I've fallen asleep dragging through very well-written 'literature', give me a personal essay with feeling anyday : )
...and I like that you can find writing assistance if you ask for it --- but careful with what you ask !
There is room for everyone without reserve, and I am grateful to have stumbled upon it eight months ago. And thanks for the shout out, but honestly, C.C., you've helped me far more. :)
The writing is often excellent and when it's not all the good stuff makes up for it. This post captured much of what this place is about.
Scanner is of course wrong again. He is and will be a writer.
Torman, a published author himself, claims not to be a writer. If he isn't, then no one is.
I have been a published writer for, hmm, 47 years. I made a decent living at it for more than 30 years, often going years between published work but still making a living as a technical writer.
What Open Salon has done for me is to give me back my poetry.
I had stopped writing poetry for years before I was introduced to Open Salon by a very old friend of mine.
The truth is that, while a writer, I had given up on myself as an author. There's a distinction that I know exists but can't express.
During the past year, people have been, for the most part, very kind with their praises and, although I prefer hard critics to soft kisses, those soft kisses don't hurt.
Poetry is a very personal thing....and it's also the coming thing. Tweeting is nothing more than a new form of haiku.
The problem we're all facing in the writing world is that the internet has made us all into writers and readers and, if that's true, the concept of a professional writer is itself open to debate.
I continue to support Open Salon. I wish they would simply bite the bullet and ask us to cough up some membership money....I would gladly pay to play....just as wikipedia users are dunned for cash, and NPR listeners get hit up for bucks.
The truth sucks but there really is no such thing as a free lunch. If we want OS to survive, we need to put some kick in the kitty.
I'm willing. Are you?
What's not to like?
Lezlie
I particularly dislike those who can't support their opinions and so descend to personal attacks on those who differ with them. I'd like to remind them that a rational response is always preferable to an insult. And those who do the insult thing quickly become known for who they are. It doesn't earn them respect it earns them contempt.
It so gladdens my heart when I hear of one of us "moving on up" to where god lives, i.e. where we can get paid for writing. In the short time I've been here some great careers seem to be getting air under their wings. Good on y'all!!
^R^
;)
Don't worry, be happy!!!
Rated cause yeah, there's no point in worrying, I'm one of those, if Open dies, I'll have no reason to go on, so I won't!! Boohoohoo!! Just kidding, I'll always have Yahoo! Groups.
Different kind of writing there, mostly pics!!! :D
I agree with sagemerlin, on the need to pay to play. The questions for me would be: 1) how much (based on usage, whether reading or writing) 2) with much better data on how many users there are, who they are, how long they visit. Right now, the analytics (unless I am missing something) are crude and not terribly helpful. And the spam has to go away, completely.
But, yes, a community is a rare thing. I loved writing for True/Slant and was really bereft when it ended. It gave me a place to talk to/with a lot of smart people --- OS readers often seem to read but not rate or read but not comment. So it has been a valuable place to try out some stuff and do a more emotional type of writing than I typically do on my other blog. The single thing I truly dislike is the lack of frank, easy, quick response from whomever runs this site. I find it weird and off-putting.
"Thank you. Open Salon is my Swiss Army Knife for the brain. "
This is a great summary of all that we have been thinking.
The point I tried to make that Open Salon was allowed to become all things to all people, the Swiss Army knife analogy worked, and the result was that it has become nothing special to anyone else besides the people who write on it - AND IT CAN"T SELF-SUSTAIN with that business model.
Kerry's job was not to make every person with a keyboard happy to express themselves but to make something that would last. What good is letting everyone of the boat if that sinks it?
When it allowed everyone in and the object became to build a community rather than a community of good writers, it lost focus.
We may enjoy it, although I defy anyone to tell me the value of Trig Palin's routine excrescences, but it hasn't much other sustaining value. The end point is that, while there isn't anything like it on the Internet, that doesn't mean it is totally good. Because, if it was, others would have popped up.
Considering what we have, what changes could improve it?
1) moderation - to remove no value posts and posters (see Trig Palin comment above)
2) better editing tools
3) tighter controls on new posters (the 2 weeks of posts must be approved before they show up)
All this might make us more happy but doesn't affect the business model one little bit. And all the whining and self-congratulation in the world won't affect that decision when it comes.
If all of you are so serious about chipping in, then set up an LLC, collect $100k and make a bid for the it. And figure out how you're going to fund year 2.
Lew
"This place is a bit of a circus, but so is life."
True that, and sometimes I am the clown.
Sometimes though LEW, I write quite seriously on serious subjects. And I daresay, pretty well (published writers have said that at least). If you had ever bothered to read you might give me more credit than that of a person who uses "routine excrescences."
In other words... fuck off. Go make a better site and send me a link so I can avoid it. Oh that's right, I'd have to go through a two week screening process which is 13 days longer than it would take for you to reject me.
Conrad, I apologize if my first comment came across as serious...
I have no idea what you mean. I don't care what people say, least of all you probably; I am just trying to disabuse people of the notion that what they like about OS is of any value to any potential funding source.
People will tolerate the little annoyances, again like you, because they like it here. It is these annoyances (spam, lack of editing, general kludginess) that show up as negatives to any potential investor.
To put this terms that you seem to be quite familiar with, I suggest you print the Salon financials, roll them into a tight little column and insert them in your ass and just hope that someone with the best intentions will fish them out for you. Because I don't think any investor will.
some of us are good enough to get into heaven, others
maybe...others no way.
Or if you don't believe religious mythology,
it's a place where we can all gain emotional sustenance
from one another...like the damn MommyState is imposing...
Or it is a place for constant, sometimes alarming, improvement
in how we communicate our innermost inner shit.
A big writer's educational forum.
Or! It is just another site, revolving around another site (Salon)
in a big electromagnetic universe of billions of sites
(the human situation, a la astronomy)
It's way f.ed up and beautiful and ugly and worthy of
love and hate and everything in between, like we all are.
Except me!!!The best damn writer on Os!!ha
Rated with a smile
What makes you so unhappy? That I don't think it's time to hug?
That I don't think that you are the source from which all knowledge flows and the arbiter of all good opinion?
That I don't think that good intentions attracts investment?
But you certainly make the point quite clearly that when there is no factual response you can make, you turn to 6th grade insults.
I am enlightened now. I can now see why someone wants to put money into this place to support this level of discussion.
Football it is then!
Patriots 17, Jets 0 = boring.
So I came back to offer LEW the possibility that the reason I average 50 comments and he 10, is that he is "intellectual" and I am interesting.
And Lew; my you do go on! I responded with facts, you precious ninny, to wit, that you're an arid-minded, constipated little prick. That much is fucking obvious. While I'm aware that you fancy yourself the smartest guy in the room, I'm also aware that many half-bright jackasses labor under that delusion. Now by all means, come back and say "No I'm not, you are!" and we'll take it from there, you paragon of civility you.
Respectfully,
Conrad
Salon Media is hurting financially.
Why didn't they shut this place down months ago?
I don't wish to dog-pile on you. I have a serious question.
As I said, I am not a computer geek, so I'm not privy to how the internet works. I do believe that, like a newspaper, most sites are driven by ad revenue. Fair enough? More clicks on the ads, more ad revenue. Is that how it works?
Is it fair to apply that model to Open Salon? I see Google all over the place here.If the answer to my question is yes, how does the site become more attractive to an investor if bloggers like myself are vetted out? If I'm not on this site to click on advertising, how is the site making money.
I am not being sarcastic here, but I'd like to know if potential investors are asking this question in the board room: "Well, how good is the writing at Open Salon? Any future Twain's on the horizon?" I'm guessing it sounds more like this: "How many clicks?"
You're obviously more educated on this subject than I am, so I'd like to learn from you.
I've wondered the same myself. Tell me what you think about my question aimed at Lew. Am I off base with those thoughts?
Thanks for having a look at my font earlier. I'll see if I can make it grow up. Point taken. It just looks so big on my screen when I'm writing, but after I cut and paste, it shrivels as if I just walked out in the cold.
FUCK! I always figured his Av was of Buddha doing an ad for Jenny Craig!
Rated.
I kind of like that there's a front page and an editor here. I can't imagine any of my posts landing there, but stranger things have happened.
There isn't supposed to be any criteria, such is human nature that there are self appointed gatekeepers (at least they wish they were) who would impose limitations on who can and cannot join in the fun.
Thanks! I try to tell it like it is, sort of.
:D