CoyoteOldStyle

CoyoteOldStyle
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Cheshire County, New Hampshire, United States
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June 02
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On the infrequent occasions when I have been called upon in a formal place to play the bongo drums, the introducer never seems to find it necessary to mention that I also do theoretical physics. --Richard Feynman

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NOVEMBER 8, 2009 5:40PM

Civil Rights for Women?

Rate: 17 Flag

gagged mouth public domain Pictures, Images and Photos

My question regarding the Stupak amendment is simple. When will women be afforded a full measure of civil rights?

The Affordable Health Care for America Act -- H.R. 3962 --  is much more than just a narrowly-passed piece of legislation that provides for health care reform. It has become hijacked by right-wing anti-choice bigots and transformed into a thinly-veiled attempt to remove a woman's right to choose which medical procedures she will use.

Once again, women's civil rights are attacked because of some perceived notion that these "representatives" have that they must protect all of us from a procedure that might be chosen after private soul-searching and discussions between a patient and her physician.

I should hope that if we are fortunate to move a viable health care bill successfully through the Senate as well, these exclusions and limitations on one medical procedure from being covered by a public option insurance plan will be challenged as a First Amendment violation.

Women deserve their full civil rights now. Our right to vote was granted as recently as 1920. That's 144 years after the Declaration of Independence was signed. Must we wait another 89 years to be fully enfranchised citizens of the United States, empowered with the ability to make our own health care decisions, regardless of our means?

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Public domain image courtesy of randijames at Photobucket.

 

For two other excellent points of view on this subject, click through to

Challenging the Abortion Exclusion by Kent Pitman
and
American Theocrats Use Healthcare to Control Women by Stellaa

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I reached the same conclusion in my post today, although you express it from a different and surely more personal point of view. It would seem to me that the restrictions can also be challenged after any bill becomes law if it gets that far, but it's reasonable to ask that the Senate take that issue into consideration and perhaps not leave it to the vagueries of a Supreme Court that is stacked in a right-leaning way and has only become more conservative since it showed a willingness to take partisan sides in Bush v. Gore.
I was deeply disappointed and infuriated by this provision. It's beyond comprehension how the religious right can have so much power in this country. Yes, here's hoping the Senate doesn't listen to their minority opinion and shows women the respect we are due!
Life, regarding where their power comes from, I think they're taking their highly refined notions of “leverage” (you know, the leverage that brought power and then downfall to the stock market) and applying it to politics these days, not just commerce. A small number of people with voices magnified through the lens of accumulated wealth, can speak quite loudly and sound like a voting force to be reckoned with. I can only hope this (over)leveraging crashes on them soon or, better, that someone pulls back the curtain like at the end of the Wizard of Oz and reveals them for being the pretenders they are.
The Equal Rights Amendment has still not become law, and until it does, women's rights can be impeded or removed at whim. Rep. Carolyn Maloney (D-NY) introduced it to the house again this past July. No action has been taken. Contact your congresscritter to get this thing passed. It's been on every agenda since 1923, for goodness' sake!
equal rights and representation for all should be as much of a no brainer as the right to heath care.
Agreed, COS. I wonder sometimes, whether women are fully enfranchised citizens. What with our still being excluded from Selective Service, and denied coverage of health issues, it seems we are on in a special category when it comes to citizenship.
coyote, maddening doesnt even cover this for me.

i am SO SICK of hypocritical, cheating, gay, drug-using, thieving, lying conservatives judging everyone as less than they are for all those same reasons, and then using their power to make everyone's lives harder but their own.

protect the fetus, f*ck the children and their mothers, is the attitude of the right. sickening, and i will be glad to see them all in hell.

sorry to not remain calm about this - you did very very admirably, btw - but we are just getting more and more pre-historic in this country, in so many ways.
Hi everyone. I'm so glad to see that there's widespread disgust out there. I am angry. I am also convinced that we need to channel this anger into action. Our rights, our civil liberties are being tugged out from under us. If these wingnuts succeed with impeding the rights of women, where will they stop? Pretty soon white men (sorry, Kent, but it's the truth) will be watching their backs, too. Will meaningful stops to minorities pushing their backwardness onto everyone else happen then?
Women's rights are far too vulnerable because of the weasels that we have within our own group. There are just far too many women who would throw other women, and their rights, under the bus, over a cliff, and onto the garbage heap.

They're weak, crooked, whorish, psychologically unsound or otherwise deformed females, who can barely be called women, but no society has ever been able to abolish or destroy women's civil rights without the help of women.

But every time I find out that a child has been murdered, then thrown out like garbage, while the messed up parents, grandparents, and druggie step parents, scramble to save their selfish hides, it makes me gag.
Abortion and health care reform should be totally separate issues, whatever the side of the abortion debate we fall on.

Rated.
Another simultaneous "Hooray" and "&*^%#$@!!" moment in American Politics.

It pissed me off incredibly. However imperfect the health care bill, (and I know, it's imperfect) after a century, we finally got it passed on the floor of the House.... but with a great big bruise on it.

Stupak... F*** you very much. Never descend a stone staircase ahead of me.
Would someone please explain to me how "one medical procedure " became a "civil right"? While you're at it, please tell me what your idea of a "civil right" is. From reading OS you would think that anything and everything is a civil right. So what is and what isn't?
Coyote, it is clear to me that we are accepting partial citizenship for citizens in this country. Being a woman now is filled with caveats and what if clauses.
silly you, thinking you were equal...
from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

"Civil and political rights are a class of rights and freedoms that protect individuals from unwarranted government action and ensure one's ability to participate in the civil and political life of the state without discrimination or repression."
The above definition just about sums it up for me. Do you have to wonder whether you can obtain a medical procedure without being spit at or vilified for choosing it? I'm sick and tired of living in fear of being hounded for my beliefs.
COS,

Okay, so I'll take you how you define civil rights. Now how does abortion become a right so that taxpayers have to use public funds to pay for it? Is it a civil right for me to be able to marry two women?
COS,

"Do you have to wonder whether you can obtain a medical procedure without being spit at or vilified for choosing it? "

Nope, it's legal and you can do it if that is what you chose to do. Look, while I'm anti-abortion, with limited exceptions, I'm also pro-choice. It's just your choice is not mine. I figure the deal is you don't be my moral judge and I won't be yours.

The question here is why do you feel entitled for the state to pay for it? We are not talking about you being able to have it done. I'll not argue over that one, I agree with you.
"The state" is us. We all pay into the coffers. As a society, we are bound to care for the least of our number. Because of that, if a person is down on his luck and must receive publicly funded health care there is no reason that that person should receive a lesser form than you or I. In your example, publicly funded health care could just as arbitrarily be written to not include funding for Viagra or chemotherapy or any number of medically-prescribed treatments. Don't throw the word "entitled" into this.
it's a clear 1st Amendment violation, but with 5 out of 9 Supreme Court Justices being Roman Catholics, 4 of them seated at least in part expressly because of their hostility to women's reproductive rights, and the fifth, Sotomayor, with no strong record on either side of the issue, I'd say we're another generation from seeing justice for women
Roy, I was talking (rather heatedly even though he's on my side) with my husband about this tonight and have the feeling that a march on Washington just might be the right direction to go in. I'd be happy to link arms with you for that.
One, they tell us that they don't want to 'waste' 'our' money on abortions. Two, they tell us that we don't have the same right to govern ourselves as men. I just get spitting mad over this.
marcelleqb, this has made me very angry to the point of thinking perhaps it's the last straw. We have all been waiting far too long for both equality and health care measures to be passed. It's time to stop waiting and start insisting.
COS,

"...if a person... and must receive publicly funded health care there is no reason that that person should receive a lesser form than you or I"

If that's the case then why are we not all on the same plan as the President? He has way better health care than I do. If it all has to be equal then I want what he has.

There are levels to everything. Not everything is equal and I'm not sure that we want it to be. If the government equaled everything out then why should I get out of bed and work 70 hours a week.

Being on the public dime means you don't go and die in the ditch. How many dead bodies were laying in the road in front of your house last week? It means you can have the bottom levels on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you want the top then you have to get it yourself.
I have updated this post to include links to two other excellent thoughtful points of view, one by Kent Pitman and the other by Stellaa. Please click through and give each of them a read.
Although solidly behind a womens right to self determination in these very private matters, it remains a fact that abortion is elective surgery. This of course notwithstanding medical emergency or rape induced pregnantcy.
No private insurance covers any elective surgery.

Many Americans do not support abortion an many levels. I beleive
it is more complex than the simple subjugation of women.

Perhaps a check box on your 1040 to committ X dollars to a fund to specifically support this procedure would satisfy those apposed to paying for what their moral sensitivities consider murder. Obviously we can all think of alot of checkboxes.. The right to vote
is the key to civil rights. Women must unite with men on this problem. best wishes...

Why don't we hear the same cries of murder from the so called christians on the War?
Abortion is elective surgery until you need one. And as for Christians decrying the casualties of war, many do, but I would remind you of how many wars have been waged under the flag of Christendom.
You have missed the point. The public who may support a womans choice may in many instances be philisophically against the termination of a healthy baby. Not so as to stand in the way of a woman in trouble.. yet not wanting to fund the service. You will not easily find a consensus for public funding for this procedure any more than private carriers have been willing to cover.... which is nil. Likely the senate will include the amendment as a decision to be
made by the state or commonwealth. My own hope is that safe legal
services are made affordable to all who need in all the land.
women should be in charge of their own bodies. but the existence of a fetus does make the picture a little cloudy. should abortion be available at any stage, right up to birth?

my own view is that parents should have life-or-death power over children right up to 18th birthday. i believe it would do wonders in promoting good manners in the young.