Forget it, Jake. This is the blogosphere.

Cranky Cuss

Cranky Cuss
Location
Ossining, New York, United States
Birthday
February 28
Bio
I am the author of "Send In the Clown Car: The Road to the White House 2012," currently available on Amazon and CreateSpace. I'm currently semi-retired after 23 years in a corporate environment. My motto: The conventional wisdom has too much convention, not enough wisdom. Corollary: Even Einstein was wrong sometimes, and you're not Einstein.

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Editor’s Pick
OCTOBER 12, 2012 3:30PM

Biden My Time

Rate: 40 Flag

  

I almost never write straight political pieces; there are people here who do it way better than me, and with greater depth of knowledge. I also admit that I did not watch the first Presidential debate; as I commented elsewhere, the debates will not affect my vote and are now just designed to trap candidates in gaffes that can be exploited in campaign ads. I suspect that the Romney bump following the first debate is less from viewers who watched the debate than it is from non-viewers affected by the press coverage that depicted Obama’s performance as bumbling.

But I watched last night’s Vice Presidential debate because, like my friend Jaime, I love me some Joe Biden. And there were several times last night when I wanted to kiss him on the mouth.

Yeah, I know Biden’s rep as fodder for late-night comedians. Hell, I’ve exploited it myself. In my book, I included a piece about getting drunk with Biden at a K Street bar. Three sheets to the wind and frustrated by D.C. gridlock, my Biden let loose with unsanitized thoughts about the candidates and the issues: my vision of Biden unplugged. I was satirizing Biden’s image as a gaffe-prone loose cannon and as a politician perhaps too much in love with his working class background, but it was also written from affection, because Biden seems like one of the few guys in D.C. who is not stay-on-messaged and talking-pointed to within an inch of his life. When I posted the piece on another website, the editor insisted that I include a disclaimer that the piece was fiction, in case anyone actually believed that Joe and I had knocked back several brews together. However, if I could knock back brews with one politico, Biden wouldn’t just be my first choice, he’d be my only choice.

If, as Michael Kinsley said, a gaffe is when a politician accidentally tells the truth, and if Biden is our most gaffe-prone politician, does that mean that he is the most truthful politician? (OK, that may be a very low bar.)

I’m sure many Romneyites were annoyed by Biden’s frequent laughter and head-shaking whenever Ryan spoke last night, so I acknowledge that my love of it was partisan. However, I recognized that look on Biden’s face. It was the same one I had fifteen years ago when my young daughter told me that the Spice Girls were the greatest group in musical history.

If you need the details of the debate, my beloved Charles Pierce cooks up a delicious lunch of Filet of Ryan. Slate’s Fred Kaplan does a pretty good analysis of Ryan’s woeful lack of depth on foreign affairs.

I also recognized Paul Ryan’s look last night. It was the same one I saw in school on the suck-up twerps who raised their hands at end of class and said, “Teacher, you forgot to assign us homework.” I realized why Ryan became such a workout fiend – he was tired of getting wedgies and having his lunch money stolen every day. I also recognized a little of me – the part that, when I didn’t know an answer to a question, just kept talking and throwing in some long words in the hope that I’d convince people that I knew what I was talking about.

In a Facebook comment this morning, I complained that sometimes moderator Martha Raddatz let Ryan talk too long and didn’t give Biden enough time to respond. Then I realized that it was because Raddatz couldn’t believe some of the shit that was coming out of Ryan’s mouth. You could almost see her rolling her eyes when Ryan couldn’t, or wouldn’t, give specifics about the Romney tax cut plan. When Ryan was talking about his willingness to go to war in Iran, Raddatz’s eyes were saying, “Listen, pal, I’ve spent a lot of my adult life in places where American men and women are spilling their blood on the battlefield. It’s easy to act tough when your ass is never the one in the danger zone. You need to think, not just twice or thrice, but a quadrillionice before you decide to send troops into combat.”

Not to get greedy, because Biden delivered a top-notch smackdown, but two additional things I wish he’d said:

1) When Ryan said about Social Security, “That’s why we’re saying more for lower income people and less for higher income people,” Biden should have said, “Oh, so now you’re FOR income redistribution!”

2) When Ryan complained about the Administration’s lack of bipartisanship, Biden should have said, “On every major issue – health care, deficit reduction – the President reached across the aisle in an attempt to find common ground. In each case, his hand was slapped away. So, Congressman, if you want to assign blame for lack of bipartisanship in Washington, I suggest you go home and look in the mirror. And judging by all the published photos of your washboard abs, I imagine you look at yourself in the mirror all the time.”

Though it would have been rude to do so, I wish Biden could have responded to Ryan’s attempt to claim shared working class roots with the Vice President, “Knock it off, Paul. Just because you’re from a town with a hardscrabble image doesn’t mean you lived a hardscrabble life. I mean, there are wealthy people in Newark and East St. Louis and there are poor people in Scarsdale. Your family was one of the most well-to-do in Janesville, while my father was out of work for a while and we had to live with my grandparents. Get real.”

I wonder if it’s possible to extract some of Biden’s blood and transfuse it into President Obama before the next debate. Paging Lance Armstrong.

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Absolutely awesome. Biden was as delicious as I'd hoped and predicted yesterday, and then some. He had the freedom to be himself un-reigned in, unlike in his debate with Sarah Palin 4 years ago. He was uniquely qualified for the job. Read Matt Taibbi's take as well (on my FB). Spot on.
Oh same for me, cranky, serious man crush on Joe,
Though not to this extent.But close:
” there were several times last night when I wanted to kiss him on the mouth.”
I watched clips of the debate this morning. I taped it last nite.

What I, decidedly partisan, decided was : Joe is a vibrant kind (often obnoxious in some fragile circles I suppose..even a bit arrogant..but he has the right to be!)soul.

Ryan is a wonk.

Very little real life or passion from the m-fer. A workouter, you say? Yeah I see it. Long gangly arms and legs. A punk, from what I saw. Younger than ME! In so many ways.



Good analysis of the debate
Yeah, I totally avoided it so as not to gag on Paul Ryan squirming. Biden isn't a loose cannon, he'd have to work in radio to be one of those. Oh, sorry, slutty cannon.
I loved Joe last night and I predict that SNL will have a skit where Ryan drinks a ton of water. That boy was on nerves as he was getting dry every 5 minutes. As for Romney being pissed he had to look at smiling Joe;s face.. well we had to look at his last week.

BTW- The Spice Girls were on the greatest bands and I still listen to them:) Don't be touching my Spice Girls.

So it took me 7-8 minutes to read this and comment on Wordpress. It took me 10 minutes just to comment on here. Makes me so mad how they treat this site
Twitter was blowing up last night - and it's amazing to me, that the Right were claiming victory, as well as the Left. Another thing I CANNOT get my mind around, is that there are women who are backing R/R. Not judging, but shocked.

Last night's debate didn't change my vote. But it sure did solidify my passion behind it.

Well done. Rated.
I'd give this a perfect score except that there really aren't wealthy people in East St. Louis. However, the extra credit points I'm giving you make up for it.
Stop being reluctant to write about politics -- this kills. Here's another zinger for you: "Paul, your abs are the only acquaintance anyone in your family has had with a washboard."
The only two guys I can think of I'd like to talk politics with in a K Street bar: Joe Biden and Cranky Cuss.
Two huge Biden Lies last night: The timeline on Libya was incredulous for one. Just as bad was when Biden accused Rep. Paul Ryan of putting two wars on the “credit card,” and then suggested he voted against the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”
“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”
Sen. Biden voted for the Afghanistan resolution on Sept. 14, 2001 which authorized “the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.”And on Oct. 11, 2002, Biden voted for a resolution authorizing unilateral military action in Iraq.

And he had the gall to mumble to Ryan "Your full of it". That is "Joe being Joe".
Excellent. Blood transfusion is in the works. Obama is going to be really good next time. Really good. He and Biden are a team.
Great Rant, Cranky! When Ryan came out with that story about someone in a car crash - when he KNEW Biden's own story - that was too much for me! R
Most excellent article.

Can't wait for the election be over.

Bring in the clowns.

I am a Canadian. Great job

Rated.
Cranky. Are siitin' on the dock of the bay?

Lyle
I wanted to cheer several times last night. Loudest of all when Biden said he felt it was wrong to impose his religion on women.

Since I find Paul Ryan a tyrannical pipsqueak (but a deceptively dangerous one), I so enjoyed seeing him getting repeatedly cut off at the knees by Biden. And I was glad to see that Joe Biden has more to him than gaffes. I always thought so, or Obama wouldn't have kept him around. I was amused to see Ryan keep drinking water--was he hoping that it would turn into gin if he drank enough? Or was he trying to create a diversion by drowning himself internally?

Now, I'm hoping that the president will be on his best game for the next two debates and will KO Romney once and for all. I much prefer Mitt Romney e prewhen he he's trailing in the polls by double digits. I really don't want to live in his version of America.

rated
I didn't watch the debate. It sounds great, though. I do like Biden.

I hadn't realized that Ryan pulled the same crap Romney did about bipartisanship. When Romney said that to Obama, that was the only time I wanted to reach into my television set and slap him. The reason Obama was less than successful, particularly in the first two years, is because he kept reaching out to the Republicans and trying to include them but, as Mitch McConnell pointed out, they were more concerned with getting rid of him than with running the country. Obama extends his hand, the GOP bites it, and Romney and Ryan have the Chutzpah to blame Obama for the toothmarks?? Romney was bipartisan in Massachusetts because he was so thoroughly outnumbered by Democrats he had to be.

Jay,
Did Biden claim to vote against the wars or against budgets that didn't fund them? Bush is, I think, the first President in American history to wage a war without raising taxes to cover the costs. And yes, that is a very legitimate fiscal gripe with Obama's predecessor.
Right on and write on, Cranky! I knew the other side would be whining about Joe's "rudeness" because they couldn't criticize anything else. Joe rocked the house.

Lezlie
I don't think blood transfusions work well. When I was given a choice of blood transfusion or a surgery. The blood transfusion gave me a fifty-percent to live. The surgery I was given, I think 75%. I think we should let Biden keep his blood. LOL :-D
I'm so glad I have people on OS to show me what a cool guy Biden is - I just thought he was a fill-in, since Obama was the big attraction (young, charismatic, good-looking, good speaker, sense of humor, etc.) of the pair. But thanks to people like you and Jaime and James Emmerling, I have come to respect and appreciate Biden - and I'm really glad he kicked ass in that debate!
If I can get out of my torpor, I'm going to post a contrarian view.
Is there really any good purpose to arguing about what colour to paint the living room when the house is on fire?

I can't believe that people really take this nonsense seriously..... I mean, c'mon guys!

;-)
.
Joe's a good Joe. Got mojo. Paul? Pall.
What fun to hang out and talk politics with you, Jaime, Matt and Biden. That sounds too heavenly to stand.
. I could have done without Biden's artificial looking guffaws. Overkill. Too I'm lauging ha ha ha you make me laugh ha ha ha rather than bemused or repulsed.
Ryan looks like a frat boy rat boy but his expressions were more subtle.
So true about bringing up Janeville . His father was a big time lawyer there. Enough said. What a crock .
Great piece, Cranky.
Good analysis Cranky. I was listening on the CNN live feed and thought that Biden had the better of it on the issues, especially on foreign affairs where Ryan seems to suggest that a return to Bush-era policies will make the country better respected. But I found Biden's use of "my friend" over-frequent and irritating.
Good one. I like your answers even better than Biden's -- especially the one about Ryan checking himself out in the mirror.
You can kiss Joe Biden on the mouth as many times as you want Pal but it won't change the fact that he lied lied and lied and that his boorish behavior was unbecoming of a Vice President. The man is a disgusting public parasite who has lived off the American public for decades without making a living in the private sector and in that respect, he and Obama have much in common two twin lying parasites!
Kosh,

In April 2007 Senator Joe Biden went on Meet the Press and dispelled rumors that Bush lied about Saddam’s weapons of mass destruction. Biden said before the war in 2002 that Saddam “had to be eliminated” and that he had to be “dislodged from power.” Biden voted in support of the Iraq War:
Here is the transcript of Joe Biden speaking about Saddam’s WMD.
Joe Biden on Meet the Press on Sunday April 29, 2007:


MR. RUSSERT: I want to go back to 2002, because it’s important as to what people were saying then and what the American people were hearing. Here’s Joe Biden about Saddam Hussein: “He’s a long term threat and a short term threat to our national security.”

“We have no choice but to eliminate the threat. This is a guy who is an extreme danger to the world.”

“He must be dislodged from his weapons or dislodged from power.” You were emphatic about that.

SEN. BIDEN: That’s right, and I was correct about that. He must be, in fact—and remember the weapons we were talking about. I also said on your show, that’s part of what I said, but not all of what I meant. What I also said on your show at the time was that I did not think he had weaponized his material, but he did have. When, when the inspectors left after Saddam kicked them out, there was a cataloguing at the United Nations saying he had X tons of, X amount of, and they listed the various materials he had. The big issue, remember, on this show we talked about, was whether he had weaponized them. Remember you asked me about those flights that were taking place in southern Iraq, where—were they spraying anthrax? And, you know, what would happen? And, you know, so on and so forth. And I pointed out to you that they had not developed that capacity at all. But he did have these stockpiles everywhere.

MR. RUSSERT: Where are they?

SEN. BIDEN: Well, the point is, it turned out they didn’t, but everyone in the world thought he had them.

The weapons inspectors said he had them. He catalogued—they catalogued them. This was not some, some Cheney, you know, pipe dream. This was, in fact, catalogued. They looked at them and catalogued. What he did with them, who knows? The real mystery is, if he, if he didn’t have any of them left, why didn’t he say so? Well, a lot of people say if he had said that, he would’ve, you know, emboldened Iran and so on and so forth.

Again… Biden was for the war–
He just didn’t want to finish it.
Jay,
Once again a long comment that says nothing. You're good at that.
Biden didn't say he didn't vote for the wars, he was saying he didn't vote for the tax cuts. You even pasted the quote and missed it.

"... put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”
“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

No surprise there, considering you're programmed to miss the obvious. Biden voted against the Bush Debt Increases and the Medicare D Debt Increase or, as y'all call 'em, "tax cuts."

Got some more irrelevant and long off point cut-n'-paste displays?
Good job, but a truly cranky cuss would have pointed out that the lack of bipartisanship in DC originated the very day after the '08 election (6 weeks before the Prez was even inaugurated, mind you) when Mitch McConnell announced to the press corps that "from this moment on we will be working to defeat this President in 2012."
The Republicans blocked even a veterans' job assistance bill to lower the very high unemployment rate for returning veterans lest the Prez look good indirectly.

The disrespect shown this Prez whether it be crazy Jan Brewer waving her finger in his face on the tarmac, a congressman yelling "You lie"! at him during his first State of Union address, or the incessant efforts to delegitimize his presidency are the product of Republicans who would never give the Prez a chance, let alone his due.
Jay,
As Paul pointed out, you didn't answer my question. Please scroll up and read it again.
This was a lie.

"It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card...I was there. I voted against him."

Biden voted for both the Iraq war and the Afghanistan war. He did not vote for George W. Bush's plan to extend coverage of Medicare to prescription drugs (though he voted for an earlier, similar proposal), nor did he vote for the Bush tax cuts. But he voted for both of the wars he derided. the moderator knew it and said nothing.
Kosh,

98-0 two abstaining were Republicans

U.S. Senate Roll Call Votes 107th Congress - 1st Session

as compiled through Senate LIS by the Senate Bill Clerk under the direction of the Secretary of the Senate

Vote Summary



Question: On the Joint Resolution (S.J. Res. 23 )



Vote Number:

281

Vote Date:

September 14, 2001, 10:44 AM



Required For Majority:

1/2

Vote Result:

Joint Resolution Passed




Vote Counts:

YEAs

98




NAYs

0




Not Voting

2




Vote Summary

By Senator Name

By Vote Position

By Home State


Alphabetical by Senator Name


Akaka (D-HI), Yea
Allard (R-CO), Yea
Allen (R-VA), Yea
Baucus (D-MT), Yea
Bayh (D-IN), Yea
Bennett (R-UT), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea
Senate Roll Call: Iraq Resolution
Friday, October 11, 2002



Following is an alphabetical listing by state of how each senator voted on President Bush's Iraq resolution. A "yes" vote was a vote to grant President Bush the power to attack Iraq unilaterally. A "no" vote was a vote to defeat the measure. Voting "yes" were 29 Democrats and 48 Republicans. Voting "no" were 1 Republican, 21 Democrats, and 1 Independent.


Alabama Jeff Sessions (R): Yes Richard Shelby (R): Yes
Alaska Frank Murkowski (R): Yes Ted Stevens (R): Yes
Arizona Jon Kyl (R): Yes John McCain (R): Yes
Arkansas Tim Hutchinson (R): Yes Blanche Lincoln (D): Yes
California Barbara Boxer (D): No Dianne Feinstein (D): Yes
Colorado Wayne Allard (R): Yes Ben Nighthorse Campbell (R): Yes
Connecticut Christopher Dodd (D): Yes Joseph Lieberman (D): Yes
Delaware Joseph Biden (D): Yes Thomas Carper (D): Yes
Jay,
Imagine I'm speaking very slowly because I know you have trouble with simple English construction. Biden voted against putting the wars on the credit card. Biden did not say he voted against the wars. I know you get all of your comments from idiot websites like Breitbart, but remember their intention isn't to comprehend English, it's to make suckers believe them.

Now, lil' Jay, let's look at the quote again, but this time with a focus on what it actually says.

“By the way, they talk about this great recession like it fell out of the sky–like, ‘Oh my goodness, where did it come from?’” Biden said. “It came from this man voting to put two wars on a credit card, at the same time, put a prescription drug plan on the credit card, a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy.”
“I was there, I voted against them,” Biden continued. “I said, no, we can’t afford that.”

See? He doesn't say he voted against the war, he voted against not funding it, or Medicare D, and the tax cuts (debt increases).

Even your manipulation of the quote, supposedly to make the linkage clear, doesn't show a linkage between war and voted against him (them) OR "it." It was not a lie, it is you being excessively dense. You are not very bright. Ask your brother.

Care to further illuminate your inability to comprehend English, or have the Rwing websites run out of sucker bait? For sure they'll never run out of suckers.

You can inquire about remedial English lessons here--

http://www.back2college.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1350

Come back when we can all speak the same language.

Meanwhile, thanks for another chuckle. Do you ever get anything right?
Jay,
Whether or not I agree with Paul's assessment that you can't read English, it is true at the very least that in this case you didn't bother reading it.

I asked you:
"Jay,
Did Biden claim to vote against the wars or against budgets that didn't fund them? "

You answered with your original claim that Biden voted for both wars. You ignored my question about whether Biden's claim was about voting against Refusing To Fund those wars rather than against the wars themselves.

Paul, in a reply addressed to you, answered my question, saying:
"Biden didn't say he didn't vote for the wars, he was saying he didn't vote for the tax cuts."

I then said:
"Jay,
As Paul pointed out, you didn't answer my question. Please scroll up and read it again."

You answered me with the roll call of the votes - about the wars themselves, NOT about their funding.

Paul then answered, for a second time, the fairly simple question I asked you twice:

"See? He doesn't say he voted against the war, he voted against not funding it, or Medicare D, and the tax cuts (debt increases)."

All quotes are from this comment stream. All can be verified by scrolling up. They are quoted in order.

Now, I don't mind arguing with people. However, I very much mind arguing with people who ignore what I say or ask. As tactics go, that one's pretty cheap.

There was no way to misconstrue my question; it was a simple one. You could, however, have conceivably blown by it the first time. However, giving you the benefit of the doubt, I pointed out that you hadn't answered my question and asked you to scroll up and reread it. Under those circumstances, you couldn't have conceivably blown by it the second time, at least not unintentionally.

As of when your last comment posted, I had asked the question twice, Paul had answered it once, and you still didn't address it, choosing instead to answer a fictitious point that neither of us had actually made.

I don't agree with Paul that your problem is one of English comprehension. I think your problem is an entirely different one.

As nasty as his assessment sounds, it is kinder than mine.
Well, kosh,
That was just one way to ridicule Jay. The miscomprehended English is intentional, at least on the Rwing media's end. Jay's problem is he considers himself as a member of Team Conservative and is gullible enough to think their propaganda network really is about giving people the Truth the Liberal Media is Hiding. He also either thinks the Others are simply parroting their spoon-fed arguments, or that his parroted arguments are actually arguments. Perhaps he knows the Rwing propaganda are lies, but he sees the lies as a means to an end...that he can't describe, but golly gee it really is awful!

I think his problem is he's easily led and misled and his enthusiasm compels him to "say something." He wants to be a player but doesn't have the chops, but doesn't know he doesn't have the chops. The Rwing media has trained him to think those are valid arguments, even if they couldn't get anyone through a H-School debate. Instead of taking the best course in this exchange (which is quitting), he doubles and triples down on a false premise point, as if that makes a difference.

Or, as Jay would interpret what I just wrote:

Jay...is...a...conservative...giving people the truth...those are valid arguments.

As he showed us above, the words between those don't count when Jay diagrams a sentence.
That's the problem with allowing ideology to drive your thoughts, Jay-- you only listen for keywords, e.g., "vote" and "war," and forego the contextual role of that word. That is rather baffling for me because your guys try contextual tricks on a daily basis and you seem to be able to follow those just fine.

Lezlie
Hey, I gave the guy a shot. Actually, two.

That's more than I gave Doc Vega.
I wrote two relatively recent posts on intellectual integrity. It's not like I was looking for a poster child.
Kosh,

Sorry it was late, I had a busy day, (coached three games and went to a funeral).
Kosh, I am a simple guy (obviously), if someone votes to authorize a war, I look at that as supporting the decision. Here is the VP actually As late at 2007 in response to candidate Obama http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0807/Biden_Obama_stole_my_ideas.html Biden clearly outlines his desire to invest in the effort in 2007!. From The New Republic 2009- “The release noted that the Delaware senator had co-authored the first law authorizing reconstruction aid to the country after the 2001 U.S. invasion and that Biden had recently been pushing both for more money and for more boots on the ground. "Biden Campaign Congratulates Sen. Obama for Johnny Come Lately Position," the release quipped.
Biden's pique was easy to understand. From his perch as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, he had long cautioned the Bush administration against giving short shrift to Afghanistan. Even before Obama announced his run for president, Biden was warning that Afghanistan, not Iraq, was the "central front" in the war against Al Qaeda, requiring a major U.S. commitment. "Whatever it takes, we should do it," Biden said in February 2002. "History will judge us harshly if we allow the hope of a liberated Afghanistan to evaporate because we failed to stay the course.
But, now that Biden addresses Obama not as Johnny but as "Mr. President," things have changed..”
In regards to my ideology, I was a registered Dem until I was 32 and it was my wife that switched me to independent status as the RMV. Half my family pays union dues and I know and love many Dems and liberals. If Biden was a Republican with his tack record with credit cards companies.plagiarism and his hard scrabbled origin BS he would have been done long ago.

Should I be complimented?, I mean I am held to a higher standard than the guy running for re-election for VP!
Other buffoonery from debate-
Mr. Foreign Policy said that Syria is larger than Libya. Wrong! Libya is approximatly 680,000 square miles to Syria's 71,000 square miles. These two countries are big foreign policy challenges right now. It would be helpful to know their relative size both for military reasons and to showAmerican leaders understand basic geography. It also shows a lack of respect to the citizens of those countries that look to our government for help in solving these difficult situations.
------Cricket from those that call me the ideolog
Biden’s use of the “credit card” analogy should not be lost on anyone here as Delaware is credit card Mecca with his son getting cushy jobs right of school. Biden was known as the “Senator from MBNA” on both sides of the aisle, just another case of the son of a wealthy salesman looking out for the little guy. His law firm got 1.5m from credit card industry.
---------Crickets again----------------
32?
I guessed much younger. By 32, most people have enough self realization they know not to get into way-over-their-head arguments.

Having been shot full of holes, you now retreat while shooting back over your shoulder and still managing to hit both fleeing feet. Sonny boy, those baddies at Breitbart are leavin' ya hangin'! They get to crank out low watt observations unchallenged. You grab the Dinky Derringer of Diminished Disputation, point it at the Enlightened Artillery and get whiny and defensive when everyone laughs at the puny pop-pistol.

One American to another and online goomba-to-goomba -- find other things to do with your time. You can't argue well due to several debilitating factors and know nothing worth knowing about politics.

As to being an ideologue, you don't have the knowledge it takes to become an ideologue. You find absurdity without needing a philosophical reduction.

I'll grant you're not an ideolog, even though your ideos drop like logs in a scatological sense.

Now run, Jay!
Run like the wind to blogs with non-political topics!
You suck at this.
Paul,

I don't run away but, I do have a life and obligations. Everyone here knows that the White House pulled a fast one with the Movie BS on Libya. It is a fact that Libya dwarfs Syria. I think I referenced where I got that info, The New Republic and Politico are not exactly right wing sites.
Peace, I do mean that.
I have never seen you post one objective thing regarding this adminstration just your usually insults. Even those that might agree with you think you are a jerk. I am sure you have heard this before here and wherever you go to vent your misery.
I
I enjoyed watching Biden enjoy himself And I think the comment string above, starring PJO, Kosh, and J.Richer is an OS version of this season's debates. Kosh demonstrates what Obama wishes he had done while debating Romney, PJO has a lot of fun ripping through absurdities, I can hear him laughing, and J. Richer does a very nice "Ryan", complete with the long suffering, yet patient delivery of B.S.
Well done gentlemen! Hey, Gordon Osmond can play Romney...
Great post.
And rated.
Jay,

Look, I guess you're a nice guy and all that, but the problem is that you're still answering the wrong point, even now. You're too articulate to be making this basic a mistake four times by now. (I think it's four; it'd have to go back and count. It may be five by now.)

I have not said that Biden didn't support the wars. Paul has not said that Biden didn't support the wars. Even Biden did not say that Biden did not support the wars, which you'd have figured out if you'd read the dialogue that Paul quoted.

What Biden didn't support was the decision not to raise taxes to pay for the wars.

Biden was making a point about the deficit, not the decision to fight. Every other American administration in our entire history has raised taxes when they went to war, except for Bush II. That decision, the decision to wage a pair of wars and raise taxes for neither of them, is one of the main reasons, if not The main reason, the Bush administration left office with an historically high deficit.

The deficit is a bigger issue than the wars, justifiably or not. This election is mainly about money, and that's the issue Biden was addressing. His point is a valid one. Don't misconstrue it intentionally.
Kosh,
Look I do think it is semantics if you vote to authorize a war, 13 months later do so again for another and then say in 2005 I am not going to pay for it.
If I agreed with my wife that we needed furniture for two rooms and then tell her that I said I didn't know I had to pay for the furniture I would be in big trouble.
I know it is simplistic but, the Obama administration hasn’t handled war funding any differently than the Bush administration did. He promised to “End the abuse of the supplemental budgets, where much of the money has been lost, by creating system of oversight for war funds as stringent as in the regular budget.” But in June of 2009 President Obama signed an emergency, supplemental spending bill to fund escalating military operations in the middle east. In 2010 the Obama administration also requested an emergency $33 billion supplemental spending bill to fund a troop surge in Afghanistan.
Joe Biden is part of this administration and we still have the credit card out there. I didn't disagree with what the Obama administration then but, I think it is sad that he gets a pass.
Jay,
You obviously don't know what objective means, but that's consistent with your usual twaddle. You know objective means something and saying I'm not is bad, but it's just "something to say" that you couldn't back up anyway. Gee, I see a trend developing...

Your loose use aside, it's funny that a kid with no political intelligence and scant amounts of any variety who can't answer a direct question and laughably offers diversions in place of objectivity...claims others aren't being objective.

Besides my oft displayed objectivity that is beyond your frame of reference, I'm being perfectly objective when I observe that you're not very bright and argue like a child.

Now, objectively speaking, admit in writing what you as much as admit with retreating--Biden did not say, imply, allude to or otherwise indicate that he voted against either war. Putz.
Jay,
I just read your response to kosh. That first paragraph is totally incoherent, including the WTF? analogy. When you look up "objectivity" key "semantics" into the search and get a definition for that as well.

@onislandtime
You have a finely tuned sense of hearing. I admit it's a cruel laugh, and sort of the dark humor one might get from burning an ant's ass with a magnifying glass. Jay is a neophyte that likes to fight, but he's a yipping Chihuahua with no teeth or bite.
He grouped all four of "them" together, you want to call me a putz on a that, have at it.If you want to say that he meant the last two items and not the 2 wars on a credit cards then, I think that would be fine save the numerous other miscues he made that night with the facts.
Again isolate that one and it is still an incredible reach ,add up all the other errors and flat out lies and I disagree.
I wish you held Biden up to the standards you hold this putz.
Jay,
The problem is you ignore all the words between and leap to the laughable conclusion it means Biden lied. Even if we apply less ambiguity than is indicated, it's nonsense to come to the conclusion he lied about not voting for the wars. At best--and this is your only reasonable option (meaning I have to point it out)--you could say it wasn't conclusive that he denied or affirmed voting for both wars. That's a far cry from lying, but the Rwing idiotbox websites said it, so you repeated it and you are a putz. That you don't understand it for what meaning it clearly transmits means you are an ineducable putz.

If you ever get minimum requirement "good" at politics, you'll use your own thinking. That ol' familiarity with the subject thing, ya know. That you don't have a minimum requirement logical mind means you'll probably never get there, but if you do, that's what it's like.
Hell, if all you can do is borrow thoughts, ask me. I might kick in something good and let you freak everyone out with your new-found ability.

Thanks to Cranky for the use of space and I'm done.
I only heard highlights from the debate afterwards, but when I heard what Biden said about Afghanistan and Iraq, I had the same reaction as Jay Richer. Jay is correct and has supplied ample documentation to prove it.
Jay,
It isn't Biden who said "I'm not going to pay for it." It's Bush. That's the core of my point. Biden didn't say "we shouldn't go to war," which is what you think he said. He said, with the last thing you quoted being a trillion dollar tax cut for the very wealthy, "we can't afford that." He was right: we couldn't afford two wars coupled with an enormous tax cut. That's the main reason we have a deficit. That isn't semantics, it's policy. This was not a conversation about waging war, it was a conversation about fiscal responsibility.

As to Obama getting a pass, given how many passes Bush has gotten from the Tea Party, that's an awfully strange complaint. Obama had two problems Bush didn't have:

An opposition more obstructionist than any in living memory, by a long shot, and

An enormous deficit coupled with high unemployment.

Obama gets more of a "pass" than Bush because Bush started out with a surplus while Obama started out with a crisis.
Jay,
Obama didn't have a choice about raising taxes on the wealthy to cover emergency supplemental spending, so to say he handled it the same way as Bush did is again disingenuous. His opposition on that point showed themselves willing to throw their own country into default before they'd allow that! That's the only time I've ever seen Republicans terrify Wall Street, which takes some serious extremism.

To say "we wouldn't allow him to do this and we blame him for not doing it" is awfully hypocritical.
Kosh,
I am not a big fan of many things Bush did. Biden did vote against the Medicare prescription-drug benefit, only to support a much more costly and unfunded entitlement expansion in the form of the Affordable Care Act.
Regarding the Bush tax cuts, it is true that Biden opposed them in the Senate — right before supporting them as a member of the Obama administration. he wants to continue them for those making over 250K which will bring in another 800 billion based on % during the Clinton administration. He ignores the 2.2 trillion if he keeps them for those making less than 250K ,the majority of the tax cut he said he opposed in that vote .So Joe thinks he is a frugal warrior by ignoring the trillions and focusing on the billions?. That is disingenous and class warfare.
Again, I apologize for missing your point over the weekend, we buried my sons great-grandfather and I coached three games, not defending, just explaining.
I sold storm windows once to a guy named Peter Wanker.
Now Peter Winkler joins the oblivious Jay. 138 more like-minded people and you guys can form a genius.

Aside from the fact that no realistic parsing of the quote would conclude Biden lied about not voting for the wars, anyone with a smidgeon of gray matter would also note that there's zero political advantage in Biden saying he didn't vote for the wars. If we follow the Stupid People's wishful thinking, Biden lied and lied for no reason or gain, and the record that would clearly indicate his war votes as well as the point he was making -- he didn't vote for the Bush debt increases or the unpaid Medicare part D.

Stupid People, I guess, think that Biden must be as stupid as they are, and obviously they assume everyone else is as stupid as they are. This is a natural extension of being stupid, as stupidity lends itself to assuming the stupid person's thoughts represent the upper limit of all thinking, not the upper limit of their own.

Now, Stupid People, besides the avalanche of reason that crushes your ignorance, note that every policy element Biden mentions is framed as increasing debt, and the topic is the recession. He offers no opinion on the wars or Medicare Part D beyond that they weren't paid for. Because the Bush debt increasing tax cuts are inherently about funding/de-funding, his statement is directly about the stupidity of the tax cuts.

After all of that talk directed at not funding any of those things, along come the Moron Twins insisting he lied about not voting for the wars. My reasonable and logical parsing that isn't necessary for the brain-enabled beats the hell out of the Stupid People's contrived and wishful parsing, but because idiocy never allows for the reasoning it, by definition, cannot perform, there's no convincing them.

In conclusion, if you read that quote and extract a lie about voting for wars, you're Stupid. That's the short version.
PS Jay,
The ACA is not unfunded. It is entirely funded, at least in the math of the legislation. Of course, anyone reading what you wrote would assume you're wrong due to your exemplary accomplishments in being consistently wrong, so this is for your benefit.
Excellent post, Cranky. Was it just me who felt like smacking Ryan every time he used the word "credibility"? Rated.
You should do more political pieces. It was a good read. I thought that Biden reminded the viewers that Paul Ryan is a sitting Congressman at a time when it's approval is at an all time low of 10% since first being measured in in 1974. He didn't emphasize that fact enough but I think Obama can bring it home when Romney tries to paint the picture that it is Obama who can't work well with Congress and not visa-versa.
Hugo,
Great name. I first heard it years ago as the author of your famous book:
"Over the Cliff"

Jay,
My condolences over the death of whom I gather is your wife's or ex-wife's grandfather.

OK, I get why you missed my point. Maybe you shouldn't write when you're that kind of distracted - you can collect a lot of abuse that way.

I don't know if 250k is where I'd draw this particular line, but one of the things to understand about managing the economy is that it very much matters where you inject money. The less money you have, the faster you're likely to spend extra money, just out of necessity, and so the more it stimulates the economy, creating jobs, new taxpayers, more business tax revenue, etc. In other words, for these reasons, trickle-down doesn't work but trickle-up does. In still other words, a tax cut for those lower on the ladder is more likely to result in revenue returning to the government in the form of taxes from more taxpayers, increased business taxes, and increased taxes from taxpayers making more than a tax cut for those higher on the ladder is. Those with more money are less likely to spend the extra money from a cut and, if they don't, it doesn't stimulate the economy and thereby bring in more tax revenues.

This isn't about class warfare. Aside from which, the one thing I can tell you about class warfare is that, like trickle-down economics, it's based on an upside down model. When you live in a system where income has been polarizing for a long time, where tax policy has helped lead to a smaller and smaller portion of the population getting a bigger and bigger share of America's collective wealth, you can conclude that class warfare is indeed taking place, but it's the wealthy waging it on the middle class, not the other way around. For most of us to say Stop Picking Our Pockets is not to engage in class warfare, it's to try to stop it.

When a system is rigged enough that a Warren Buffet can observe that his tax rate is lower than that of his secretary, class warfare becomes a germane description. All that's wrong is the assumption of who is waging it on whom.
Kosh,
Thank you, he lived long healthy for the most part) life. He was loved and loved back, the rest are details.
I actually agree with you to a certain extent. Small businesses need breaks and incentives to survive,grow and add jobs. I worked for GE for over 12 years. I grew disenchanted watching divisions close down,families destroyed and quality compromised just to save 1 0r 2% from the bottom line. The 28 year old Harvard MBA who saved a million or two(on paper) would then move on to another divisions as his resume would be padded and he would scram and let the next person pick up the pieces. If you complained, you had an expiration date stated on your file.
I was well compensated but, I finally left when I had a neighbor killed in a roadside bomb in Iraq. they traced it back to Iran, made with parts from GE.
That was a side note but, we (GE) also would sell some EOL (end of life) products in the healthcare division that in many cases the clinicians did not want but, the cost of other desiredgoods would go up due to non-compliance. I would get orders all but thrown at me at times from across the desk. Not good for the soul or the patient.
Small startup get frozen out in this type of climate. If we couldn't beat them on technology, we would leverage our strengths and win that way. If we still lost to that company we might buy them, if it didn't work with our exixting platform, it would go on shelf depriving society of a life enhancing technology.
So I am for trickle down but, it starts about 40/50 % up the
My computer posts without waiting for me ------------

So I am for trickle down but, it starts about 40/50 % up the ladder.
Small to mid size business are where greatness and our future resides. Something for nothing is not fair to the middle class nor does it help a persons body or soul not to contribute in this life.
I think everyone here had the benefit of being challenged by someone in their life to be better,the best or at least productive. There is too much elequence and intensity for that passion not to be stimulated at some point in your life. "If you are here, most likely you didn't build that.
YES! and hats off to Jason Sedakis (?) who did a "spot on" Biden. We know where SNL's heart lies - with mine.
My computer posts without waiting for me ------------

So I am for trickle down but, it starts about 40/50 % up the ladder.
Small to mid size business are where greatness and our future resides. Something for nothing is not fair to the middle class nor does it help a persons body or soul not to contribute in this life.
I think everyone here had the benefit of being challenged by someone in their life to be better,the best or at least productive. There is too much elequence and intensity for that passion not to be stimulated at some point in your life. "If you are here, most likely you didn't build that.
Jay,
Small business doesn't count as trickle-down. It's too far down the ladder.

Aside from which, my perspective, as someone who has made a living selling to businesses for 36 years, is that what really helps these businesses is more customers. If ordinary people don't have money, they won't get more customers. If ordinary people have money, they will get more customers. It's really a simple equation.

As I said a long time ago in a post, when I sit across the desk from one of my customers, we say to each other

How's business?

but somehow the question is never

How's taxes?

There's a reason for that.

Taxes have to get extreme before they make the difference. In fact, if you want to create jobs, the best thing you can do with taxes is raise them but provide deductions for hiring; then companies will hire people as a way to avoid taxes. That works fine.
Kosh,

That is fine until the company moves overseas or out of state. Massachusetts lost 10 of thousands by not being reasonable with Fidelity. About 15% of my town now lives in Dallas/Fort Worth.
I do not disagree with you if we live in a vacuum but, so many variables makes that simplistic.
I work for a company that sell products made 100% in the USA. We lose everyday to accounts who will save 5% by buying products from China. The stimulus helps my company as we sell to IT departments in hosptials but, a majority of the money goes overseas.
Lots of pressure to move production down to Texas to save on overhead and taxes as the breaks expire in 2014.
Cranky - I knew there was something I liked about you! I also love Joe Biden. I always have. I campaigned for him when he ran for President, and was thrilled when Obama chose him for VP.

During the first debate, I was WISHING it was Joe Biden up there debating Romney. Try as he may, Obama just can't channel Joe's
energy and refreshing, no B.S. delivery. It's not who he is.

I understood why Joe was laughing during the Ryan debate last week, but I also frankly wished he had toned it down just a bit. Not because I didn't agree with his reaction, but because I just knew it would be construed as rude and disrespectful and used as ammunition against him. Sadly, that's exactly what has happened.

You go, Joe!!!
I come from a working background that viewed washboard abs as something fake, created out of idleness instead of honest work. Looking back, I see that it represents a lot of self discipline, and I can respect that.
What I don't respect is Ryan's approach to the debate. He showed self discipline all right-- he managed to ignore anything Biden said, he kept to the party line, and kept a cool demeanor. It comes straight out of his self-help book. It's to his advantage (and to Romney's) to refrain from actual intellectual engagement with the Dems. They both show pride and guts. I don't think that is true leadership. The corporate world, they used to admire problem solvers. Now, it's just a neocon male beauty pageant.
I confess to having missed this debate, so it's nice to read about it here. Gotta confess it, tho'--I ab-so-freakin'-lutely hate politics.
All the same, Romney-itis is not something I'd care ever to have. Let's keep him out of the White House entirely, and his little friend, too.
R