So she's not dumb.
Sarah Palin deserved all the heckling she got, in my opinion. She made an ass of herself. She seemed to revel in ignorance, and glorify it. But she turns out to be intelligent after all.
I'm watching her right now on Oprah. I'm halfway through the show, and I've got to tell you I find the woman real, candid, and yes, intelligent. I can't believe I'm using that word, because I had never found her intelligent before. My big problem with Sarah Palin is that she has spent the past year celebrating ignorance and stupidity. She seemed to stand for it.
I have not read one word of the book, so I have no opinion on that, but she really comes across differently on this show. I don't buy everything she said, but I do buy the gist of it: that she was a newbie to that kind of VP stage and of course she made lots of beginner mistakes and was also kind of paralyzed by making more, and the McCain people's obvious terror that she would make more, and the press guffawing when she made more, so it was kind of f viscous cycle.
I'm paraphrasing massively, but that was the gist. And that rings true to me. Of course, I would also argue that was inevitable, and that's why it was dumb to nominate someone who had never gone near that stage.
But as for her role in the whole thing, yeah, I buy her version of it, at least big picture.
That doesn't necessarily contradict what the McCain people have said: that she didn't play ball well, that she went rogue way too often and basically didn't accept that she was a beginner and take direction better.
But I see her point of view, too. She sees them humoring her--eg, saying Good job on the Katie Couric disaster. She also feels that she is the candidate and she's supposed to exert herself and be herself and not roll over and play to a script. That's a very realistic tension to me, and I can see myself being torn if I were in that situation.
Once again: what the hell was she doing in that situation? It was a desperate move by McCain, but hell, he was in a desperate situation, too. He knew he was going to lose if he didn't throw a Hail Mary pass, so he threw one.
I found Sarah least convincing on the blame she laid on Katie Couric for badgering or condescending. Asking what Sarah reads was a reasonable question. It was Sarah who read way too much into it and got ruffled and rambled instead of just naming one. (I also thought Sarah was not completely candid there. It sure sounded like she wouldn't name a magazine because she would be heckled for any name she threw out. So why doesn't she just say that now?)
Sarah has not convinced me that she made a ton of wise choices during the campaign, but she has convinced me that she was facing a ridiculous no-win situation, and she made some reasonable choices in those situations.
Don't even get me started on some of her positions, and some of the hypocrisy. And she still pisses me off for the way she tried to make a virtue out of ignorance and inexperience.
But I understand what makes her tick a lot better, and it's much better than I imagined.
And she is no dumbass. She has not converted me into a fan, but I respect her a whole lot more than I did this morning.
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But I hope NOTHING ever comes along to suggest to me that she is intelligent.
but that ain't what i saw today.
you're right in that she has been asked nothing substantive about policy. there is still no evidence that she has hit the books and become informed on anything important.
i remain unconvinced that she's willing to do the work necessary. but she's clearly not dumb.
We had one C student for eight years. We don't need another. She still has a long way to go to get my respect.
I think you’re a good man. And I think you have worlds of exposure to, and as a result understanding of, parts of the media that I and many others will never possess.
I believe Sarah Palin is the most transparently selfishly ambitious public figure I have seen in my lifetime. Simply looking at what she has sought after and yet fallen short of honestly and righteously completing, I am struck with the realization that the one thing she actually has achieved is becoming a recognized and much talked about person.
If Ms. Palin knew, as any thinking person knew, that she was dramatically under-qualified for the Vice Presidency - let alone to be a heartbeat away from the Presidency - her willing and eager acceptance as McCain’s running mate it demonstrates a gross lack of integrity on her part.
If she was unaware of how dramatically under-qualified for the Vice Presidency she was then she is horrifyingly ignorant of what such a job entails.
Ms. Palin’s self seeking ambitions might be tolerable were it not for a small but vocal group of influential people who prove to this nation time and time again that “avarice, anger, pride and stupidity commonly profit far beyond charity... justice and thought.” (With apologies to Robert Bolt from “A Man For All Seasons.”)
Rated and appreciated.
I won't ever forget that, during Palin's interview with Charlie Gibson he said something to the effect that she displays a remarkable lack of hubris and it was so very, very, obvious that she had no clue what the word hubris. I knew then that if, God forbid the GOPs won this election and McCain were to die; our country would be in the hands of someone with a fourth grade (maybe less, sorry fourth graders) reading/vocabulary level.
Thankfully McCain lost and we did not have to survive a presidential term holding our breath.
All predators learn how to hunt in their environment.
I just finished watching Oprah on the DVR and my wife and I were both impressed with her appearance.
She's still a train wreck of a politician, but she was surprisingly good (not always truthful) on Oprah.
And why did she drag her children there, again?
I don't buy it.
She might be smart, but she is far from intelligent. She was obviously coached and didn't go "rogue" at all. The only thing I ever liked about her was her "crazy pants" personality, rather persona.
What about the not so subtle message about reproductive choice? She got her message in there, that's for sure.
I was disgusted by her absolute conceit that she was in any way used by the media to extend some agenda. She is a walking agenda, and is marketing herself to the hilt so she can be a millionaire AND the face of the radical right.
She's smart enough to have made sure that going on Oprah only secured her fanatical base. Awesome - all the people who believe that killing doctor's who perform abortions is reasonable and that fags deserve aids just got a resounding OK from the media.
It makes me sick.
She quit being the governor of her state to be Sarah Palin. Her pudding faced children staring blankly from the audience didn't sway me.
I so wish this was all some media conconction. I mean, it is, but it's unfortunately not going away.
'Tis a pity that among all the intelligent discourse on this thread you have a disgusting, male chauvenist comment by Frank Apisa, whose picture suggests that sexual relationships with anything--man, woman, or beast-- is but a dim memory.
Anyone who thinks humans and dinosaurs co-existed or evolution is just a theory, is neither smart or informed.
I am fascinated by the number of het men who view McCandy as a MILF. Really? Palin meets the threshold for "fuckable?"
I doubt if she will ever be on a national ticket again, at least not for the mainstream GOP, but I think she will be a player, perhaps as an organizer for the religious right/social conservative wing of the party, or maybe even for an independent social conservative offshoot of the GOP.
We all know that you are an obsessed male homosexual, but what purpose do you think you are serving by being so vulgar?
I well know your type: gays whose hatred/fear of women is so profound as to enclose them within the often arid confines of their own community. Get over it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbEwKcs-7Hc
This is what bugs me about her - "I feel confident I can do anything well, because I'm just so darn good, in my opinion, at being a mom and whatnot - sure, I can be VP! I can be President - bring it on!" She lacks seriousness - she wants to be taken seriously without ever having to actually demonstrate seriousness. She is George Bush in a skirt - both got to where they are because they were being used as a figurehead, but both have such big egos, they considered their candidacy as evidence of their capabilities to actually do the job well.
P.S. - There was an interesting take on the interview here today: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/17/arts/television/17watch.html?_r=1&th&emc=th
Gordon, while I think you have a point about Frank's comment (calm down Frank, so would I, though I wouldn't brag), what is your problem with Christopher's question? I don't think anything he said betrayed any "hatred/fear of women". Perhaps you have a hatred/fear of gays and the "often arid confines of their own community", whatever that means.
Myriad, I love "garble and blork" - what a cool name that would be for a law firm. I may steal that. If you have a problem with that, please talk to my guys at Soo, Grabbitt, and Runne.
http://www.manofest.com/Galleries/Funny/20-People-With-Extremely-Unfortunate-Names/soo-yoo-lawyer-7214.html#joomimg
That does not take away her ignorance. You can be both at once, and she definitely is. Those are the most dangerous people, the smart ignorant ones, especially when they are so arrogant they do not see themselves as ignorant. Being smart makes them think that they do not need to listen and that they know better. Her struggle with McCain's campaign is an excellent example of this.
And Frank, that comment was harsh regarding Palin.
I do disagree though. I thought Palin came of as astonishingly uninformed. It does frighten me that there is anyone as uninformed as she is, and so close to power. The worst of it is the basis for her opinions, and her manner of processing information.
I read this post with an open mind, but the fact is, money's in play, and reality is pop culture these days... Sex sells everywhere, sad...
1) To attempt to win the votes of disaffected women who because of their disappointment at Ms Clinton not winning the democratic nomination would automatically go for any other woman, and;
2) Because Rush Limbaugh wanted her, and that would be the only chance McCain would have at putting down an insurgency on his right while the battle raged on the center and left.
Palin failed miserably on account #1 but succeeded wildly on #2. And it is to those people on #2 that she still holds appeal.
The fact that she has had a year to get a little polish, which included having a ghost written book and ghost written facebook and twitter posts does not impress anyone who thinks critically. She wants to be a kingmaker? She wants to be king herself? The resume needs more than a fairly successful visit with Oprah, wherein she displays her penchant for being the victim, the martyr crucified by intellectuals, the news media and the left.
As a last visual, I'll leave you with this: Imagine this woman caught off guard by Katie Couric being in a position to negotiate with Vladimir Putin over say, missles in Cuba. Some things simply dont lend themselves to a mulligan, and being president is one.
I still find her ideology moronic and yesterday just proved that she really should have moved to Hollywood rather than Wasilla.
Point taken though and courage for taking the high road. I don't buy her swill for a moment. She would sell Trig for enough money.
She is intelligent enough to manipulate the public. That is not hard, after all, Paris Hilton does it. Wouldn't vote for her either.
…I guess people who were impressed by the intelligence and erudition of George Dumbya Bush figure to be impressed with the supposed intelligence of Sarah Palin.
I have no problem with that.
I enjoy thinking about it.
In fact, I laugh out loud when thinking about it!
A monkey can take a tin can into orbit--with the right direction.
It's yet another example of how the bar is set so low for her--you're cheering about her pole-vaulting over a mouse turd--a low bar, that is. (How long do you think she labored over her next big interview?)
She is a barnacle.
i am not suddenly in love with her. and i don't think she handled every single question well. but . . .
i made fun of her (here, i think, and on my facebook page) when her book was announced, and i laughed uproariously about how moronic she was at every turn.
i fully expected her to make an ass of herself on oprah. she did not. by a longshot.
i believe in credit where it's do, and i actually found her to be a pretty impressive person in a variety of different ways in that interview. so i'm not going to bullshit. she was impressive.
this kind of comment, i don't get: ". . . read your entry on Palin and it made me kind of sad. It doesn't matter if you think she is intelligent, or nice, what matters is . . ."
it doesn't matter to whom? in what situation. "what matters is . . ." there's only one thing that matters?
the truth matters to me. she has taken a public drubbing for a year now, we me right there in the forefront. i saw another side of her, and realized some of it had been there all the while (some not), and i had chosen not to see. so hey, i'm coming clean.
if that commenter meant "what matters" on election day, then sure. but we don't have an election pending here.
i take issue with one other theme running through many of the comments: that the appearance is meaningless because she was "coached."
that term has become wildly overblown. good coaching--in any pursuit--is vital to making a person better, bringing out there talents. but you can't coach talent or brains into someone lacking them. you don't turn me into Michael Jordan with all the coaching in the world. you don't turn some dumbass who writes crazy letters to the editor into David Brooks by coaching. you don't turn a fool into acting candid or intelligent on Oprah with coaching.
(for that matter, all the coaching in the world is not going to turn Joe Biden into anything more than a slightly more palatable form of Joe Biden.)
He/She CAN'T do it alone.
Listen to some of the male comments in this board and what do you hear? "She may be dumb, but I want to F*** her" Well guess what, she counts on that impulse. It's her stock in trade, along with that winkety wink to show how "downhome good folks" she is. It is precisely the affected traits that make her so dangerous.
Very few people took Bush seriously in 2000, but the minute I heard he was running, I was scared, because I recognized the manufactured "aw shucks, good old boy schtick". I see the same awful possibiltiy with Palin. I am afaid I have to admit that we, progressives/liberals underestimate her at our peril. She could, very well, ride the scary train straight into 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. God help us all!
What are you? My stalker?
You roam across OS looking for me to post a response that includes begins with some version of "We all know......," as though you speak for the entire OS community.
What is quite clear to me, Gordon, is you are a latent homosexual filled with rage toward younger (and more attractive gay men) who are out and free to live authentic lives.
You are a very sad character, Gordon and need psychiatric help. I would advise you to get it before you harm a child or a small animal.
Sarah Palin goes on "Oprah": Smarter than expected
I have to ask, how could she POSSIBLY be dumber than expected?
If she chewed on Oprah's shoe and wasn't housebroken?
If she failed to count to ten WITH the assistance of her fingers?
fail
sandra, i agree totally. i thought that was her worst moment on the show. i didn't buy it at all.
monica (and a few others) "malicious comments about Levi Johnston"? what were those?
i will admit to laughing my ass off at The Levi Johnston show. i find him pretty amusing, and i think he has revealed some useful insights into the Palin world.
but i also take the guy with a huge grain of salt. he's milking his moment much harder than Sarah--and at least she got elected gov of a state, and nominated for VP. (i don't think she deserved the latter, by a longshot, but i'm not in charge of that selection process. she still did it.)
levi is totally riding her coattails, and his own very good looks. he's having fun, but he's also making an ass of himself some of the time, and he's hardly being loyal to his family.
if someone like that in my life were acting that way--man, can you imagine how hard it would be to take a deep breath and not lay into him? i think she was restrained, considering. and every time Oprah raised another question on it, Sarah gave her a little, but said she didn't want to talk about it. it was oprah who insisted on going at it over an over for a full segment.
(that's oprah's job. i'm not saying she was out of line. i'm just saying that sarah did not just unload on levi or belabor it--quite the opposite.)
i don't actually believe everything sarah said on the situation (eg, that levi never lived with her daughter; i'm skeptical), but i thought she handled an incredibly awkward situation pretty gracefully.
Rate~
I wonder how many of you so-called "intellectually curious" folks have ever read a single book on economics; or have ever read The Federalist Papers; or have ever hunted for food; or have ever bothered to learn how to use a gun.
No. What we have here is a lot of really dumb women and rude gay men who are so convinced of their own intellectual and moral superiority that they don't even realize how dumb they are.
I have always found those who wear their sexual orientation (with which they had nothing to do, by the way) on their sleeves as some sort of unearned badge of honor rather tasteless and gauche. I mean, really, who cares? I feel somewhat sorry for one who sees the world exclusively through that prism.
If you're all that young and attractive, why not replace your avatar with a picture so we can all bask in your beauty? The present one is, in my opinion, disrespectful of the members of our armed forces, straight and gay, who made heroic sacrifices in the cause of freedom for all Americans, gay and straight.
We are stuck with the Big P, she is here for the duration. She will never hold office again- I will bet anyone here! Now, here is the un-PC deal:
Have any of you ever lived in Alaska? Have any of you ever dealt with rural Pentacostals?
I have and it is like going back to kindergarden.
Why is she so popular? Simple, she has given about 30 million straight-laced uneducated white women the role model they have craved all their lives.
The problem? They are credulous uneducated fools with absolutely no concept of what is going on in this country, much less Internationally.
And, like Sarah, every situation requires an explanation for them, they have been busy raising kids and NOT learning about the rest of the world.
They are a dangerous and ruthless bunch, and will stand behind her for the ugliest reason of all, one that defines human history, simply because they identify with her group.
She is going nowhere fast except to Fox. If I am wrong and she ever wins another elective office consider the final straw of the decline and fall.
Remember fellow citizens, the girl Nero is fiddling, she dithers, her new fav word, while Chinese and Korean 8th graders tackle fractal geometry. Her ilk are the hoi polloi, the peasantry, the pedestrians, the serfs ... they have been scared and whipped into a fury by their corporate funded policy "makers".
Oh well, watch it play out while Obama saves the world for the next 7 years - HAVE FUN WITH HER STUPIDTY AND ARROGANCE, JUST LIKE TINA DOES.
Bwahahahahaha ...
So, the McCain team selected a "beginner" as a Vice-President? Do candidates in the US have to be managed and controlled by tobacco-flavour consultants? I was wondering why the qualification of a candidate governing a US state larger than most European nations was ever questioned for beeing the candidate for a Vice-President, a merely representative role.
I also wonder why you need to demonstrate qualification in the United States to assume a public office. After all in a democracy most citizens should formally quality to become a candidate.
"She also feels that she is the candidate and she's supposed to exert herself and be herself and not roll over and play to a script."
But the "beacon" reference was in the script for the role, right? Is an ideal American candidate an actor?
there are a few elements in it that annoy me, particularly the palin trolls who come to bash anything "liberal" in broad strokes. not even worth responding to.
i'm also dismayed by the comments along these lines: "She lies with reckless abandon. How do you respect that?" damn. where on earth did i say anything like that? the implication in comments like those is that Sarah (and presumably the world) can be seen in only two colors, black or white. if i say that i saw her show brains, candor and character in one interview, then i'm saying i respect everything about her in every situation, including all her lies.
that's what you're saying, right Brie (and several others)? correct me if i misunderstand.
i refuse to see the world in two tones, where every person is bad or good and it's heresy to acknowledge a generally-bad person showing some good traits on occasion. and i find that take really appalling.
as for people who saw the interview and saw it very differently, i disagree with you, but totally respect your opinion. i'm happy to see some of you saying so.
(working off just fragments is iffy, but she is defending the remarks elsewhere and in no way saying they were out of context, so it seems safe in this case.)
good god. what is she, a mind-reader? how the hell does she know what was going on in the perp's mind. for once the media is being very responsible.
sarah p is not a dumbass, but she continues to be reckless.
And she is no dumbass. She has not converted me into a fan, but I respect her a whole lot more than I did this morning."
Dave, Simply put, she "Gotcha". In my world, telling the truth or telling a lie, is as different as black and white.
There is a difference between being clever and being smart. There are a lot of clever people in the world--people who know how to manipulate and smile--it doesn't matter how effective they are at getting people to like them. A dumbass is a dumbass and she is one dumb ass. You still set the bar too low.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/joan_walsh/politics/2009/11/16/sarah_palin/index.html
So if a person has a character flaw (lying), but I see an interview where I respect them more than previously for other qualities, then I respect the character flaw?
What kind of logic is that?
I think that you'd avoided her for so long you were surprised to hear anything resembling cogency coming out of her.
I think you're attracted to the inevitable attractiveness of her - now, naysayers, hear me out; and do not doubt that I can not Stand this woman. When she gave her speech at the Rep convention, it was a roof-raiser, a rousing and brilliant bit of evoc, and she had that "thing", that magical thing, that gets you to lean toward her, to pay attention to her, to "like" her. I called my Republican fringe friend and said, Wow, she was amazing. My friend crowed and yelped and I said, Well, Okay, but.... Little did I know that she was what I now regard as all the things we read above: narcissistic, manipulative, two-faced, hypocritic. I realize that I agree strongly with those above who basically said they cannot forgive that she's not curious. That's another one. But she has that "thing", so I am unsurprised at her exemplary performance - I mean, appearance on Oprah. (Oprah, OTOH, has been dead to me for years.)
(Being a mom, I never have been able to understand or, if it be my place, forgive her treatment and mistreatment of her children. She's using them. I think Bristol and Baby Tripp should run away to Hollywood, live with whatsis [but don't marry him], and pursue her future.)
Well, enough of this. I am happy to be firmly of the belief now (whew!) that she'll never hold another elected office in her lifetime. Yay!!!
Dave, I will never "buy" what she's selling. Where is the logic in buying anything this woman says. And big picture, her big picture is wrought with hate, fear, and exploitation.
What are her other qualities of which you speak? Name two.
Dave, what is flaming the Levant more than ANY other issue, settlements I think we can all agree. To push, in Insane Preacher style cadence, for increasing this policy, well the only people for that truly believe in Armageddon, that trite scroll about Nero.
YIKES