Balancing Act

MAY 6, 2009 8:23PM

What's wrong with letting the torturers off?

Rate: 3 Flag

I gave the matter some thought.

The opposition snipes at whatever the new administration does or sets in train to be done.  They are waiting for a flub, a screwup, a misstep, so they can say they told us so, Obama's naïve, Obama's incompetent.  Some people figure the progressives, just as disenfranchised, have joined the chorus.

In the matter of the president's Justice Department and the president himself being willing to let the torture issue slide, for instance, the left has been insistent. 

Firstly, nothing can stop the screwup, whatever it will be, from happening, so they will ultimately have their talking point.  Nobody can go forever without tripping up.  The thing to do about that is ignore it, as you do all inevitable things which you can't plan against very well. It wouldn't help your chances anyway to be fretting all the time about how you can't afford to screw up.

Being less yappy is a good idea, all told. I can see that. We can make our points without rancor. 

The time will come, just as inevitably as the screwup the opposition is hoping for, when there's enough evidence to begin charging people with crimes. Justice or H.S. will doubtless need to have been involved in the investigations to produce that evidence, even before that.

And in both cases, investigating and prosecuting, the executive must be prepared to do its duty.  This kind of crime-- not mere theft, murder, assault, and kidnap but abuse of power by agents of the state-- is particularly tied to impunity.

Impunity enables corruption, and impunity sets the stage for the police state.  Of all the laws to set aside for the sake of political expediency, the ones which curb abuse of state power lose the most from lapses in enforcement. 

I didn't teach constitutional law at Harvard, like some people did.  But it seems to me, as a layman, that the executive's function is faithfully to execute the laws of the republic.  There's getting to be far and away too much case law and precedent establishing features of an imperial presidency, one which sets aside inconvenient laws at whim. 

Reagan at least had to spend a few hours telling us he didn't remember, didn't remember, when his office flouted the limits of its power, but for Cheney and Bush, impeachment was off the table despite blowing off habeas corpus, blowing off congressional subpoena, flouting due process and proper warrant procedures, starting wars unilaterally in violation of treaty and so on.  Cheney was asked on television if he cared what the American people thought about any of this, and he replied with an unadorned no.  No one lifted a finger to curb this stuff but a few progressives, the rest of whose party ducked.

The constitution goes on in detail about impeachment in several places.  It's a political process designed to curb imperial presidencies and pull the plug on lifetime appointees who abuse their position.  It was at their disposal, once they had a majority.

Say what you like about the Republican party, it knows how to act like an opposition.  The party now being given a chance to run things mostly rolled over and played dead, passing the Military Commissions Act, two PATRIOT Acts, abdicating their war powers, and ultimately, with majorities in hand, refusing to impeach.

Now, they too want to set aside laws which they don't like.  Perhaps they want an imperial presidency.  If they refuse to act about this sort of thing, I think we will have to consider that.

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I'd like to see a full investigation, and prosecution, if warranted - which I think it is.

Do I think it'll happen? Not likely.
Well, I halfway share your pessimism, Charity. And this is me. You know me; I defend the hopeless cause and see the redemptive side in the most abandoned of men.

But this last vote we saw, shamelessly worshipping the very banking companies who shafted our economy and who continue to be enriched as the rest of us swell the breadlines? I am convinced more than ever that the Democratic Party is just as much in the pocket of the wealthy as any. Do you know why FDR shoved through the New Deal? He could see that he'd have riots and civil unrest, men and women in the streets dying for the cause, if he didn't. He was accused of being a traitor to his class more than once, but he pushed through Glass-Whatsit and strengthened the unions, set up social security and instituted a progressive tax. People are, as Lenin remarked, only three missed meals from revolution. You don't imagine he actually cared about the little man, do you?

No, the Dems are failing us. If the new president goes any further right, we may have to take to the streets again. Clinton defaulted on every liberal campaign promise, and to top it off, shoved through NAFTA. The big masses of us, the poor and working poor, are still utterly disenfranchised; hardly anyone represents us. I shall soon be an old man, and I'm tired of the wait. Maybe the depression we're in will set enough people starving to get them angry enough to kick some ass. It's about the only thing that causes these rich-boy politicos to do their fuckin job.
Just for the record, I am much more optimistic about the Torture issue being investigated than I am about the Economic ones being satisfactoril resolved...

Perhaps because Torture is covered by international law, and if we don't do something to investigate and/or prosecute, then one of the European or other international courts will. The Truth keeps coming out, and as it does the evidence accumulates... eventually, it can no longer be ignored. Not even my our mighty lame CoolPressKidz.

Unfortunately, although our economic woes are global as well as national, there are no laws or precedents to help us out in this case.
It is a very bad precedent to acknowledge torture occurred, but then refuse investigate or prosecute. That is a dereliction of executive responsibility, and it is a direct contradiction of the oath of office.

If Obama does not want to put the country through the trauma of prosecuting the previous President and Vice President (and perhaps members of Congress), then his only constitutional recourse is to follow Gerald Ford's example and issue an a priori pardon. But just ignoring criminal behavior is not a legal option.
Procopius, I don't perceive any trauma in prosecuting your basic criminal. Trauma. That's what they said about impeaching. But cui bono? People at large love impeachment, which brings the mighty low, and whether they like it or not, something has to be done about this one. They wanted the right to read our mail, videotape our every move, listen on our phones, search our homes with no warrant and without even telling us, and then whisk us off to secret prisons without letting even our families know what happened, hold us with no accusation of crime, send us to Syria or someplace to be tortured, indefinitely. And behold, the democratic party said sure, fine, sounds great. They seem to be still saying that, and it pisses me off.
ktm, it seems to me, on the contrary, that there was a simple-minded feeling on the part of Americans that we had a model for this-- the New Deal. That Democrats know how to do this, that Keynesian models would haul us out. At any rate, we swapped out the one party for the other, and a large government investment in public works and such things was put in train. I see the relative ease with which this was done as a turn to the New Deal model our grandparents watched being used. In fact, there are some creases and wrinkles which make it an imperfect fit, but still, I believe most of us out there went right to that model, along with other depression-era models, of helping one another, barter models to get things done with no money, and so on.
Rated. Thanks for keeping this going.
And the left continues to feed on its young!

Give it a break, Dave.

We elected Obama to do a job...and now people like you and Dennis Loo want to tell him exactly how he has to do it.

With friends like you people...the guy does not need enemies!
Frank, I'm left. Obama isn't left. He's not my young; he's yours.
You elected him to do a job, not I.
He's not left, he's not a progressive. I don't have to baby him.
You and Dennis are doing your best to trash him...and doing a great job of it.

I am sure that is helping our country on its way to recovery!!!

Not!
Dave:

Just read your post, "What's wrong with letting the torturers off?"

Liked it very much. Have also made you my favorite

Dorian