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David Brin

David Brin
Location
San Diego, California, USA
Birthday
October 06
Bio
David Brin’s novels have been translated into more than twenty languages, including New York Times Best-sellers that won Hugo, Nebula and other awards. His 1989 ecological thriller, Earth, foreshadowed cyberwarfare the World Wide Web,global warming and Gulf Coast flooding. ........ A 1998 Kevin Costner film was loosely adapted from his Campbell prizewinner - The Postman. Kiln People portrays technology letting people be in two places at once. "Foundation's Triumph" brought a grand finale to Isaac Asimov's famed Foundation Universe. Brin's groundbreaking hardcover graphic novel "The Life Eaters" was an international sensation. .......... David Brin is also a noted scientist, futurist and speaker who appears frequently on television ("Life After People," "The Universe," "the Architechs"), discussing trends in the near and far future, with subjects as diverse as surveillance technology, astronomy, SETI, nanotechnology and national defense. His non-fiction book -- "The Transparent Society: Will Technology Make Us Choose Between Freedom and Privacy?" -- deals with issues of openness, security and liberty in the new wired-age. It won the 2000 Freedom of Speech Award of the American Library Association and a prize from the McGannon Foundation for public service in communications. .......... Main web site: http://www.davidbrin.com .......... Alternate blog: http://davidbrin.blogspot.com/ ........... Speaking/consulting: http://www.davidbrin.com/speaker.html

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Salon.com
Editor’s Pick
OCTOBER 16, 2009 3:31PM

Jiu Jitsu in Afghanistan

Rate: 9 Flag

All right, here's the deal. I 'm paid to point things out that others haven't noticed. Not all the under-examined concepts that fizz out of my contrary-cracked mind prove right or even sane!  But I am pretty good at showing that this or that twist should at least be put on the table, and dismissed properly. And so, I'm going to toss something out there.  It is far from the most preposterous alternative I've come up with.  In fact, this idea should work! Even though it hasn't a prayer of being tried.

Let the Taliban take over Kandahar and parts of Pashtunistan.

 Yes, it sounds terrible.  Defeatist.  Humiliating.  Sending exactly the wrong message to our Pakistani quasi-allies and giving the jihadists reason to cheer...

Or would it?  Think.  When did we do our very best against the Taliban?

During the initial post-9/11 intervention, when they had something to lose.  Something that could easily be taken from them.  Guerillas are at their best sneaking around in barely more than the clothes on their backs, sniping in target-rich environments.  They know that they are absolutely terrible at holding onto discrete, well-defined territory, let alone governing it. Not against a coalition of modern powers.

Now combine this with the following news article from McClatchy (10/16/09):  The U.S. military can send only about 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan in the next three months without putting excessive strains on the Army and Marine Corps , but the top Afghanistan commander has said he needs more than twice that number to have the best chance of success, military and administration officials told McClatchy. 

Put aside for now the near-treason of a previous administration that left our military in such a state.  (When Bill Clinton left office after a fantastically successful Balkans Intervention, every single US brigade was rated "fully combat ready."  When Bush left office, NONE were rated even close to fully combat ready.)   The significant point here is that we simply haven't the resources to simply "police-down" a wild-ass insurgency in every valley of Afghanistan, also known as "the place that empires go, to die."

So let's try a little thought experiment.  Suppose we talked Karzai into "ordering" US and NATO forces out of some well-defined area called Pashtunistan.  The Pashtuns are the principal tribe causing trouble in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. A high fraction are fanatically conservative, the ones who want their women wrapped up in burkhas and who banned both music and kite-flying.  Suppose Karzai said "I've struck a deal -- limited autonomy for the Taliban in this region, if they'll agree to pull out everywhere else."

  Of course the Taliban will agree... and of course they'll intend, first chance, to stab Karzai in the back and resume their campaign.  That's given. Only think:

 1)  During the two month transition, you'll see transfers of population.  Fanatics hurrying to Kandahar and moderates moving out.  Especially any woman with any sense of pride or self-preservation.  Drawing fanatics away from the rest of Afghanistan and Pakistan and concentrating them in a place that finds itself almost without women?  Um... what's not to like?

 2) The new Pashtunistan will happen to have boundaries that allied forces can seal, at least somewhat.  It is arguable that less heroin will escape that way, than currently does, through today's widely-cast net.  In any event, trade will be at the mercy of the surrounders, not the surrounded.  Moreover, as part of the deal, the radicals will have to first turn over strong points and passes to the Pakistani Army.

3) This turns the civil war into a tribal one.  It should cause support for the government to rise everywhere outside Pashtunistan, as  Uzbeks and Tajiks and others remember what life was like, before 2002.  Especially as Kandahar devolves back into incompetent rule, poverty and sheer nastiness.  

 (Let the Taliban cry out for donations and help from radicalists in Al Qaeda and the Arab world.  Let those funds flow.  It won't be enough.  Nothing can be enough.  Those sources will dry up.)

 4)  War will resume.  It is inevitable.  Jihadists cannot grasp satiability.  They'll start attacking, again.  And, when they do, we can simply take it all away from them again, in a matter of days, fighting on our terms, not theirs, to be greeted as liberators, even by the Pashtuns of Kandahar.  Oh, in trying to defend fixed positions, Taliban troops will be at their most vulnerable.

 Sure, it's a bit cynical, manipulative and callous... almost like the way the British behaved, during their imperial era.  The fig leaf of Karzai ordering this would be essential.   But really, when all is said, where are the failure modes?  For example, suppose the new Pashtunistan government surprised us by showing competence, skill and restraint, separating from Afghanistan and joining the community of nations.  Even if they are hostile to us, tell me how that would be worse than the present situation?  In fact, the more they have to lose, the more likely they will fear a repeat of 2002.

Oh, and then there's this.  A Taliban entity, sitting once more on the border of Iran?  Let the mullahs sweat that out.

 

All right, this doesn't fit into tidy left-right boxes.  Anyway, I despise that metaphor.  We need to be idealists, but pragmatic ones who are capable of jiu jitsu, when it seems called for.  And, when it comes to Afghanistan, jiu jitsu is always called for.

 

 

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Yes, great post, nicely done. Jiu jitsu indeed.
there is that possibility, but, command and control of Pakistan's nuclear weapons says no to me. Plus, we cannot exit safely right now. We are in grave, grave danger.
Interesting gambit DB. But no bureaucratic, hide-bound organization like the US government has the guts, vision, or daring to try such a gamble. Remember that the greatest geo-political gambler in history, A. Hitler, embarked on the daring 1940 Ardennes attack against France ONLY after the war plans for the conventional Belgium-centric ,World War I, generic kind-of-drive on France were intercepted by the Allies when a small Luftwaffe courier plane carrying two officers with the boring, agreed-upon conventional strategic plans was forced down in Belgium and fell into Allied hands. ONLY this crisis, revealing Nazi Germany's lower-risk, consensus-established plans, forced Hitler into giving the go-ahead for the more dangerous and risky Ardennes attack...which proved to be a master-stroke, in hindsight. Same with the sluggish, cover-your-ass Pentagon and State Dept...they haven't got the gonads to try your idea...and Obama is no gambler either.
And what's with you and Jiu Jitsu anyway? You suggested the Jiu Jitsu analogy in the context of the health-care campaign, where you proposed offering universal children's health insurance as a way to gradually muscle the opposition, marshal-arts style, into a longer-range universal health insurance program for everyone. Instead of jiu-jitsu, how about anti-matter mines and photon torpedos placed under the backsides of neo-cons...just violate the baryon-number conservation laws maintaining their physical bodily integrity and the problem will vanish in a poof of instantaneous blinding energy release. Rated.
A profound misunderstanding of warfare, counterinsurgency and Jiu-Jitsu.

Nice.
Jiu jitsu is about agility, shifting your weight, allowing the enemy's momentum to do most of the work. Clinton's Balkans intervention was like that.

The Bushites' approach in Iraq was, in contrast, was pure SUMO.

My suggestion is about side-stepping what's expected. In judo, the enemy pushes and expects resistance, so you let him push on empty air. This suggestion was about stepping aside and letting him have Kandahar -- and thus stumbling. Thus, any lack of recognition of similarity to jiu jitsu simply reflects upon you lack of correlative imagination. (The analogy was likewise perfect, in my suggestion about health care reform. The suggestion may not be! But the analogy was! ;-))

Getting out is a proposal worth pondering. After all, Afgh IS where empires go to die. OTOH, this is where we were attacked-from and -- well -- dang, the women of that country deserve hope.
Gotcha...so let's institute a, is it, black-belt in jiu-jitsu foreign policy studies...but wait...the blubbery Hillary and Richard Holbrooke, not to mention the Repub Kissinger, or Leslie Gelb, who penned 'The Irony of Vietnam', etc,...man, their belts couldn't be worn at the dinner table when they pig out on 'Amerikan Over-Kill Chicken-Hawk' Nuggets...but your point is well taken!
A fantastic fantasy, but with no real chance of implementation, as you stated, Mr. Brin. An equally fantastic scenario would involve carpet bombing the Afganistan / Pakistan boarder for several months, moving troops into Pakistan and doing a sweep of the smoking rubble with overwhelming numbers returned from Iraq. Brute force and jiu jitsu are not options, they are the dreams of better men.
Rated.
Hmm... I like it.

We should chat about my idea of invading Mexico. First, it would eliminate that nasty "border" problem. And with some Eisenhower-esque highway building, a few thousand Wal-Marts and water corralling, we could Happily expand our domain, exploit - I mean, access and develop their/our resources, and create a big happy-happy!
The big problem with your idea is that mass voluntary ethnic cleansing won't happen. Women stuck in Afghanistan tend to have tons of kids, no education, and no earnings potential. They rely on the men in their family for support. Add to that the occasional honor killing of women rumored to have strayed.

Next, few Pashtun fanatics who have houses, property, or some kind of job, however meager or inadequate these may be, are going to give up what they have to rush to Pushtunistan, a place not known for good jobs or housing.

So, when the everyone else wants to escape, there will be no convenient empty houses and job vacancies for them. They will be destitute refugees.

Heroin will still flow -- the problem is corruption and geography. Opium poppies are one of the few profitable crops in Afghanistan. And how many poorly paid (or even well-paid for their position) Pakistani soldiers will resist a month's salary let trucks bound for the decadent West to pass. How many Afghanis and Pakistanis want to protect Russia and Europe from a drug plague?

And of course, other people have dreamed that the US army would be welcomed as liberators. Look how that turned out.

To sum up, nice idea, but it won't work.
Your suggestion sounds a lot like what Joe Biden proposed in Iraq -- partitioning -- before we decided to buy off the Sunni war lords and call it a surge. Your proposal is worth considering -- which is why it probably won't be considered.

But remember what happened when Korea and Vietnam were partitioned. The question is, would Afghanistan go the way of Vietnam and become another Nike shoe factory, or would it go the way of Korea. God (and Allah) knows, we don't want the Taliban getting their hands on Pakistani nukes.

But no matter what's proposed, the real problem is you can't devise a rational solution when dealing with irrational people. And they don't come any more irrational or contradictory than fools using cell phones and digital video to demand a return to the Seventh Century. And how about AK-47's and IED's -- shouldn't these guys use only swords?

Frankly, the Taliban aren't the only nut cases on the planet. I've never heard a Fundie offer a satisfactory explanation for how they reconcile their backward views with the modern world. That goes for the Amish -- why stop at the 1800's -- why not go back to the time of Christ or Moses? Ditto for the End-time Christian fundies -- why don't they go back and domesticate those dinosaurs their ancestors used to cohabit with?

One thing sure -- they're all living refutation of Intelligent Design -- if they're made in their Creator's image, he/she was none too intelligent.
some seriously out-0f-the-box thinking man. you should be an advisor. but just remember, for awhile the propaganda was that iraq was intentionally terrorist flypaper-- that started to come out after the guerilla war started. and anyway we all know how well iraq worked out, and according to plan right dude?
my question still is, wtf are we there for anyway man?? its all just a total farce.
You mad genius. In the great mess that is Afghanistan, this actually sounds as if it could work.

Certainly none of the other alternatives sound all that great.
HEY! Stop suggesting that Mexico be "invaded." We're not sharing the tequila!
Not a far out idea. I've had the same for sometime. Except those going into the Reservation for Retrogrades would have to enter through widely separated gates labeled: "Men" and "Women". Buses would be stationed at the "Women" gate to evacuate any who don't wish to continue living in that world. (All women boarding the buses would have to be scanned by TSA equipment to prevent the innocent from being blown up by zealots.)
No, I'm with you, David. If ever there were a time that the "lessons of Vietnam" should be applied, it's right now in Afghanistan. Other than fighting in the mountains rather than the jungle, the situations are much, much too alike for my comfort. We stayed in Vietnam an extra, what, 7 years, and last I checked, the Communists were still in charge.

I'll repeat myself: don't those clowns in charge ever read history? Lazarus Long ("We don't learn from history without falling flat on our chins") was right.
Even better, just pull out and leave them alone. Perhaps secretly encourage one of the late king's sons to take charge again. Let them grow and smoke opium if they like.

The US in Afghanistan reminds me of Kipling's short story "The Man Who Would Be King", also set in Afghanistan, about Western would-be rulers who thought they knew everything when in fact they understood nothing.

Zhu Bajie, Viet Nam vet, alive in the bitter sea
The biggest absurdity about our absurd war in Afghanistan is that it's apparently about FASHION. Lots of USians don't like women's fashions (the burqa) in Afghanistan, so we are "liberating" the women with shrapnel and napalm, mostly of life and limb.
"dang, the women of that country deserve hope."

Brin, probably they hope you and the other foreigners will go away, leave them alone. Really, where does this idea come from, that the US is improving the lot of women in Afghanistan? If we could solve our own problems, MAYBE foreigners would imitate us, or some things we do. But invading? Bombing? There's nothing improving about shrapnel and napalm or foreign soldiers looting and raping and killing.

Take a good look at the countries the US has given full make over to, Haiti and Philippines. Look at all half-American children begotten by US soldiers and sailors in the Philippines. Look at how oligarchic those countries are and how impoverished the ordinary person is. That's the sort of "progress" Afghans have to look forward to if the US "wins."
great concept. i have been saying something like this for a long time. of course mine was a little more cynical. (as in: the bad guys would have to surface to take control, therefore, making them more visible and easier targets). free occupied afghanistan. it is their civil war, let them fight it.
I just read an excellent newsweek article on "chaosistan" & mcchrystal possibly leaking CIA info on the subj. highly relevant to your thesis-- you might want to check it out.
I believe your theory does fit into the "despise"(d) "left-right boxes"(metaphor) more than the you understand, and less into the martial arts metaphor than you understand. To me, there is difficulty equating(or rather comparing) war with diplomacy and yet there is also an intelligence factor that differs. To mix boxes (or analogies might be better), we have Rumsfeldian intelligence and then there is what is really out there * . War obviously relies more on secrecy, while diplomacy relies more on openness, however we will still have those that play a war game, whether in or out of the box or whether they are with us or against us.

* http://political_progress_for_people.blogspot.com/2009/10/who-gets-it.html
Some claims/assumptions that are mistaken in your post:

1) [Guerillas] know that they are absolutely terrible at holding onto discrete, well-defined territory, let alone governing it.

First of all, the Taliban were not always Guerillas. They used to be human beings. No, I’m kidding. They controlled and governed Afghanistan from 96-01, quite effectively too, ending the long civil war that had started after the Soviets withdrew.

2) Suppose we talked Karzai into "ordering" US and NATO forces out of some well-defined area called Pashtunistan.

Karzai is not likely to agree to this as he is a typical Afghan, hard-headed and very proud, not to mention Pashtun. No chance in hell (except maybe under threat of assassination) would he accept the partitioning of his own country, let alone the part that is his political base and homeland.

3) The Pashtuns are the principal tribe causing trouble in both Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Pashtuns are not a tribe but an ethnic group.

4) A high fraction are fanatically conservative, the ones who want their women wrapped up in burkhas and who banned both music and kite-flying.

False. 86% of Afghans support the presence of US troops, another 8% are unsure. Only 6% support the Taliban, according to a statistical survey done by a Western group.

5) During the two month transition, you'll see transfers of population. Fanatics hurrying to Kandahar and moderates moving out.

I’m not sure about this one but I think most people will move out. You would essentially create a situation like the splitting of East and West Germany, with just about everyone wanting to get out of East Germany.

6) The new Pashtunistan will happen to have boundaries that allied forces can seal, at least somewhat.

The Durrand line, which separates Afghanistan from Pakistan, alone is about 1600 miles. Add another 1600 plus another 300 for good measure and you’re talking a border of 3500 miles. That’s longer than the entire breadth of America and almost twice as long as the US Mexican border, spanning much tougher terrain. No way you can guard it.

Having said all that, partitioning Afghanistan and creating an independent Pashtunistan, governed by the Taliban and internationally recognized is not all together a bad bargaining chip to bring to the table to get the Taliban to cease hostilities. However, it would set a precedent, not necessarily bad. After all, the Taliban of today are tomorrow’s George Washingtons.