Existential Angst.

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Deborah Young

Deborah Young
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I'm a political analyst and cultural voyeur & usually write about when those two things merge. I'm an amateur mother, a professional reader and excel in generalized anxiety, although sadly there is very little reimbursement for that particular skill. And of course, I love books & dogs.

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OCTOBER 29, 2009 10:48AM

on David Letterman

Rate: 52 Flag

Almost 30 years ago I worked full-time at an alternative newspaper in Santa Barbara. I wrote articles and helped keep the community events section organized as well. Men and women worked there, there was smoking inside while working, pot smoking in the back, beer drinking at night while working late. A liberal bastion while Ronald Reagan was in office and his western white house shimmered in the hills close by.

One of the male writers who worked there started hassling me. He wanted to date me, I didn't want to date him. He lived with his girlfriend who also worked at the newspaper. But she was sufficiently oppressed by his ego that she said nothing while he openly courted me. I didn't want to date him. I didn't really even like him. When he finally realized I was serious he started to make my life a living hell. At first I ignored him. But then I realized something curious. I was a liberal woman working at a liberal newspaper getting sexually harrassed by a liberal man and nobody was batting an eye. I mean nobody.

I went to the Editor of the newspaper, a woman who was friends with this male writer. I told her the problem. She told me that that was just the way D. was and he didn't mean any harm, just put up with it, no big deal. I explained to her it was a big deal to me and it was seriously affecting my work and my being able to even come to work. She shrugged and poured herself another cup of coffee.

Here's what I did: I walked away from my dream job.

So it was with great dismay to see that almost 30 years later, nothing has changed for women in the workplace.

Nell Scovell, a former writer for David Letterman, with an impressive 20 year resume, weighed in this week on her experience as one of the very few female writers on his staff. She has also been writing for Vanity Fair since 1988.

nellscovell

When the news first broke that Letterman was being black-mailed by a staff member for his blatent affairs with women who work under him I listened bleakly to the rush, the whoosh! of defense to poor married Mr. Letterman. The men were all: "those women want to be with rich, successful men!" "The woman blackmailing him must have planned this from the start!" Well, it was a man who was blackmailing Letterman. CBS news producer Robert J. Halderman tried to extort $2 million dollars from Letterman to keep some of the comedians' sexual affairs quiet. Oopsy to all you men who screamed "Ho!" at the top of your lungs.

Totally missing the point that this is about workplace policies, not about a single man dating someone at work. And deftly tucked away was the fact he is married with a kid at home. Apparently if you are rich, and a "star" you have permission to prowl the halls for your next one night stand. Really. Who's going to say no to the boss?

I watched with disheartenment as my fellow feminist bloggers defended him to the hilt. "It's not about sex!" "How else do you meet people?" "Those ladies love it!" "His wife probably doesn't even mind!" and Barbara Walters weighed in on the View: "It isn't sexual harrassment."

Oh but Barbara, it is.

As Nell points out, there's a subset of sexual harrassment called sexual favoritism that, according to the Equal Opportunity Commision can lead to a "hostile work environment," often "creating an atmosphere that is demeaning to women." And that was her experience as a writer on the David Letterman show.

At this moment there are zero women working as comedy writers for various late shows, Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien included. Nell describes her experience:

"Was I aware of rumors that Dave was having sexual relationships with female staffers? Yes. Was I aware that other high-level male employees were having sexual relationships with female staffers? Yes. Did these female staffers have access to information and wield power disproportionate to their job titles? Yes. Did that create a hostile work environment? Yes. Did I believe these female staffers were benefiting professionally from their personal relationships? Yes. Did that make me feel demeaned? Completely. Did I say anything at the time? Sadly, no."

But I did say something at the time and it got me exactly nowhere. And I know thousands of women have said something at the time at their jobs and it got them exactly nowhere. So you can stop screaming in my ear that she should have "said" something. Oooh. That would make it stop.

Here's what she did: she walked away from her dream job.

She's coming forward now because she wants to pivot the discussion away from the bedroom and toward the writers' room, because "it pains me that almost 20 years later, the situation for female writers in late-night TV hasn't improved." She points out that shows "often rely on current (white, male) writers to recommend their funny (white, male) friends to be future (white, male) writers." Anybody who saw the movie "Funny People" starring Adam Sandler can't argue that fact. The whole movie showed how older men mentor younger men and younger men bring on board their male friends and so it goes. I believe my mothers generation called this "The Old Boys Network."

Perhaps male writers don't want women in the room. But Scovell points out "we're your co-workers, not your wives."

Sexual harrassment of women in the workplace is wrong. It robs a women of her right to employment, to be safe, to benefit from her years of education or experience. And it is wrong whether it is a liberal man like Letterman [or Clinton] or a conservative. To argue otherwise is intellectually dishonest and is the definition of double-standard.

The man who harrassed me almost 30 years ago went on to have a very successful writing career. He didn't have to worry about hostile work environments and also could rely on his network of male writers to recommend him to his next job. This creates economic disparity between the sexes on a huge scale.

To be able to work at a job you love without having to worry about the David Lettermans in the office trolling for sex. Must be nice.

 

 

 

 

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When this first hit, I wrote a post about it. I told Dave to screwem'. My thinking at the time wasn't about the affairs, it was about the extortion.After reading your great post, I see now where I should have waited until all the facts came in. While I still think Letterman is basically a good person, I didn't know at the time that there were no women writers on these shows. I think women are just as, or more funny as men and should not have to put up with the "Old boys network". I guess being a man, I could not see it from a womans point of view. I will try and be more open to this in the future. Thank You for this great post!
R~
Enlightening. Great piece of research and analysis, Deborah. Changed my mind on a lot of things about this story.
R
Thank you scanner and John. Thanks for "getting" it.
I'm officially impressed with this post and your writing.
This is good work you've done. And yes, yes, yes... it's about the writers' room. Thanks for making a nuanced argument when things get muddled by celebrity. R.
I cannot BELIEVE Barbra said that! Well done and very interesting, Deborah.
I'm kind of like scanner in that, when the original story broke, I didn't think it was a big deal. I thought it was about a personal sexual relationship and blackmail.

I see now that there is no denying the sexual harassment component.
I wrote a post not too long ago, where I was lambasted by some for not proviing that a hostile workplace existed at Worldwide Pants. Ms. Scovell recent revelation supports my opinion. Thanks for posting this Deborah.

In my 30 plus years in management, the actions of a leader always drive the organization's culture. Dave Letterman, is no better than Bill O'Reilly.

Rated.
The married man who harassed me went on to become the CEO, make over half a million exercising his stock options and, after I was gone, hired his wife so she could also benefit from said stock options.

I can't tell you what kind of fury stories like these brings to me. Well, I don't have to tell you. You know. Great post. Well deserved EP/FP. And a pox on Barbara who absolutely DOES know better.
Excellent article.
I was another one who felt that the whole Dave Thing was not a big deal, until I read what the bit about how the women who were sleeping with him had advantages over other ones who didn’t. Now I get it. Good piece.
I thought that this wasn't one of Letterman's former staffers blackmailing him, but one of his former staffer's ex-boyfriends doing so without her knowledge, and that at least in this one staffer's case, said affair took place before he was married and before his now-wife gave birth to their son.

What you experienced is quite clearly sexual harrasment, ie, it's HARRASSMENT with a sexual component. I'm not so sure that, in the absence of evidence of quid pro quo, just getting your feelings hurt over the fact that the boss' girlfriend gets on air more often or gets her jokes used more often than you do constitutes sexual harrasment. Yes, she may be benefitting professionally from her personal relationship to the boss. So does the boss' former fraternity brother. So does the child of the boss' best friend. Etc., etc., etc. Ms. Scovnell is right in saying that Letterman et. al. need to reach beyond the old boys' network in their search for writing talent, but not just because women are underrepresented on their staffs but because they're missing out on a LOT of potential talent by hiring mainly from the pool of friends-of-friends.

Anyone consider that Letterman may have put Stephanie Birkitt on air as much as he did AND had an affair with her because he genuinely liked her more than others on the staff and thought she was funnier than other women on the staff? Humor is, after all, a subjective thing, and it often goes hand-in-hand with perceived attractiveness.
Thank you for this excellent post. Every time I read or hear yet another story about the blatant sexism going on in the work place I get furious. I get even more furious when everyone else dismisses it as no big deal.
I read about Nell Scovell and thought exactly what you have written! YES! It is sexual harassment. Dave is the money maker, so there will be little, if no repercussions. Yes, there is a "boys' club." And, from my experience, there are also "racial clubs" and "gay clubs" and probably many more. And who can blame them? I have worked with men and women and frankly, the women were the most back biting and nasty of all. Women need to get their act together in the work place and stand up for one another and stop fighting against each other. Also, with so many men and women working together, it is very convenient to meet a lover at work. You see those people every day and get to know them. Much safer than the internet or a bar. It is a mixed up bag of tricks, but I have always gone by the old adage, "Don't put your peter in the payroll." And The View?? What is up with those women? Another reason not to watch that show.
I've been out of the working world (for pay, that is) since I was pregnant with my 11 year old. I was the service desk operator for a cash register/POS sales & repair company in a large city in TN by the MS river.
Before I started, the company had to "pay off" a female employee after she complained about harrassment from her supervisor. The company didn't want to loose him, so they gave her a large cash settlement and she "agreed" to leave the company.
Evidently, me telling one of the service techs that I liked the color of his shirt b/c it looked like the inside of a watermellon gave him permission to squeeze & pat my butt a few weeks later. Being felt up by someone older than my father wasn't my idea of fun.
Deborah, I was mulling over a post on the same subject. When the Anita Hill thing broke several of my friends and I called each other up and talked for hours. ALL of us had been sexually harrassed and NONE of us had thought we could do anything about it. It was the early 80s, we liked our jobs and we all thought we just had top put up with guys making our workplaces extremely uncomfortable. Until Anita spoke out, I hadn't even realized that what had been happening to me was and should have been against the law. What people do not realize, even now, was that sexual harrassment has been around forever and looks like it still isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Good work.
Thank you for a well-written, thoughtful piece.
There are too many untold stories. How many women have walked away? I was experiencing it working as a teacher's aid in elementary schools...left one school because of it...just to find it at another...not to mention waitress jobs where it is almost expected from the customers to the managers...to the bus boys. So I did the most logical thing...I became a mime and managed my own career.
Good article. I agree with you 100%. Sadly it makes me reflect that sexual harassment is much like every other issue of injustice in the workplace: confronting it is much more often than not a losing proposition.
Sometimes I think we learn nothing over time...R
I enjoyed your article, but I find it hard to believe that anyone can be surprised that sex and inequal power structures still plague the workplace. I think it's a fundamental issue of human nature that will never change. I concede that is a cop-out, but at the same time I still believe everyone is accountable for their individual actions, regardless of their impulses. I find it repulsive that women are put in the position of exchanging sex for upwards mobility in work environments. But sadly, I think as long as we remain selfish and morally corrupt creatures, the situation will never change. How would you propose effecting a paradigm shift?
Great piece. Just further reason for me never to work in a place run by men.
Alex W: Part of the paradigm shift would to not immediately rush to the defense of the person perpetuating the harassment in the workplace. I've never seen such a fast rush of defense as I did re: David Letterman. Undeservedly so. How about rushing in and demanding treating women employees like people, instead of sex objects? We could start there. How about hiring women writers instead of only men? There's another paradigm shift. Strange to still be asking for the same rights in 2009 as I was in 1979.
I am entirely sympathetic to the travails of the sexually attractive. It is for this very reason that M. Chariot is forced to wear a discreet gold band on his left ring finger when taking the public transport! Why, you may ask? I claim neither to be scholarly, nor informed, nor particularly charming: but I do claim to be exquisitely dressed at all times, and that has made me the exalted recipient of the inappropriate romantic largesse of insane women on every bus route in Old Hollywood!
This made me think. If the workplace has been traditionally male dominated, then some of the idle banter that would go on would also be problematic. Akin, say to co-ed locker rooms at a health club (and, referenced not to inject nudity/sexuality, but only the small talk.)

So could some of the advancement be for those comfortable with (or silent about) said banter. You are making me think of a female jewish sales rep who would regale the largely male sales office on friday afternoons with JAP jokes told to her by her clients. Makes me wonder if she really found them funny or just conceded defeat and embraced them as a defense...

Good post.
D,

Sexism remains as institutionalized as racism, but every year is better. Apologies for the crap you went through in SB ... a creep is a creep is a creep. You've been on Oahu a while and must have a few tita friends or co-workers ... flashback for me to the docks in Kahului where I was in the Longshoremen as a young man. A new haole manager made a smart remark to my co-worker Lina-Girl ... Lina turned and said, "oh, you like I grab em?" and, tea-bagged the kook out the door and bounced his ass off the wall ... sadly, this is a rare occurence.

Aloha Kakou
Well, if this didn't deserve EP, nothing did. I'd say send this bad boy (or girl as the case may be) to Marie Claire, Ms., Bitch magazine...put this one out there for print.

I actually don't think David Letterman is a good person, for what its worth.

Smart journalism, woman. Now move it. Asap, while the story is still out there.
Am I the only one concerned that Nell Scovell's insight into the work environment at Worldwide Pants is from 20 years ago? I don't doubt for a minute that she experienced a hostile work environment back then, but wouldn't many women say the same thing about their work experiences from the 1980s?

The current executive producer (Burnett) noted that "for the past nine years, three of the show's four executive producers have been women, and all of them have worked for Letterman for more than 25 years. In addition, the heads of the talent and production departments are women, 58 percent of the show's staff are women, and all but one of the show's major divisions are led by women."

This doesn't prove or disprove anything about the current work environment at Worldwide Pants, but looking only at the writer's room experience of a short-term employee from 20 years ago doesn't either.

There's a big difference between sexual harassment (including a hostile work environment) and Scavullo's observation that shows "often rely on current (white, male) writers to recommend their funny (white, male) friends to be future (white, male) writers." That's just a stupid and narrow hiring practice. It doesn't create a hostile work environment for women - it just keeps them from getting the jobs in the first place. And really, should we be surprised that the writer's room (the backroom voice of the show) looks exactly like the front of the house? All of the late night hosts are male, all of the co-hosts are male, and even the bandleaders are male.

There's a ton of progress to be made (still) in improving working opportunities and environments for women. Maybe Worldwide Pants is a horrible place for women - I'm just waiting for someone with a more recent, more relevant experience to shed some light on the issue. The world has changed - greatly - in the past 20 years and I just don't think it helps anyone to drag up old situations to try and prove a current point.
impressive article, deborah. thank-you for providing a deeper look behind the headlines to show what harassment really consists of. I'm sorry that you lost your dream job over this though. depressing.
I should add a note - I myself have been sexually harassed in my workplace (in a male-dominated field) and its a horrible, demeaning feeling. My post isn't about diminishing the importance of eliminating sexual harassment in the workplace. Its just that I can't imagine someone trying to depict the current working environment at my company by bringing up an example from 20 years ago. Unless someone can show a recurring pattern, or a current scenario, her observations are just another (of many) historical experiences with discrimination and sexual harassment that we should learn from and hope to never repeat.
Very cogent, reasoned and well written piece, Deborah. We don't have to agree on everything for me to admire your talent. But I have to say I'm with Reader Not Writer in wondering about a 20-year time gap in terms of what's happening now.

The show's (and parent company Worldwide Pants) current top Exec Producer, Rob Burnett worked his way up from intern. So did the other two Exec Producers, Barbara Gaines (we see her almost every night off to the side) and Maria Pope. Did any of the three sleep with the boss to get ahead? Who knows.

So I also wonder what's the overall culture now... how much did those two powerful women know and what, if anything, did they do? Sexual harassment --any harassment-- is ugly, illegal and unconscionable. I've been a victim of it myself. Which doesn't mean I believe every instance of sex in the workplace constitutes harassment.

As for Barbara Walters, she's made no secret of having slept with powerful men and being proud of it. Though she's always set up as one, she's hardly a role model for feminist achievement... certainly not mine.
I'm with MiddleAgedWomanBlogging - Noah lasted 24 years to retirement in the same bureaucracy by following one simple rule: "Don't piss in your own pool." I just didn't, even when the opportunity presented itself a few times.
Some days I just hang my head as a man...

Grand post. Fine writing, fine research. Mahalo
Wow. I am so sorry that nothing was done to the man who was sexually harrassing you. Couldn't you sue or press the issue?

I am upset that there are no women writers on these shows. My question is: why? Did no one apply for the job? Were the women writers who applied really horrible writers?

I look at SNL and the women comedians and writers it's produced and it seems like maybe SNL is still ahead. A little.

Is there a site or search where you can find out who the writers are on different shows? I always support the programs that fit with my beliefs.

Thanks and Rated!
According to imdb.com, Craig Ferguson has/had two female writers on his tonight show. But there should be more.
Well written Deborah! Many things happen in the work place, using sex as leverage, and or any type of harassment is bull... People using people for gain seems a way of life, sad and wrong... Prevention, continues to be one of the hardest to accomplish feats that divides a divisive society... RRR
Before we go off on the gender of TV writers I want to remind us that not only do times change but the profession of TV "writer" is somewhat endangered itself. In the 1980's, during the penis penis penis era of SNL I remember thinking that comedy was pretty much dropping to a jr. high school level... The thing to remember, my aging compadres, is that the average age of most on-the-rise TV writers and producers is like 28 or so.
Thanks for helping others to see the whole picture of what it's like to work in those conditions. Good post! Congrats on the EP.
i have missed this, having never had a career type job. when i used to waitress, sexual jokes and innuendo were rife, and i dont think anyone batted an eye. and i had a boss who could barely walk, who patted my ass regularly, but i didnt care, since he was about a hundred and couldnt walk.

i cant imagine how wretched it would feel to have a dream job impacted this way.
Of course you can call your experience what you want, but I don't think it is accurate to call it your "Personal David Letterman". What happened to you was clearly sexual harassment. Equating that to the David Letterman affair/blackmail situation is grasping at straws. To the best of my knowledge Nell Scovell is the only person saying The David Letterman Show is a hostile work environment. That she says this from the perspective of 20 years ago doesn’t make her view of her experience wrong, but it doesn’t necessarily have relevance to that work place today. While I find the lack of female writers on the show somewhat surprising and disappointing it is not just a shortcoming of World Wide Pants as there is a dearth of female writers throughout the industry.
When it comes down to it, unless there is some evidence of Mr. Letterman using intimidation to force Stephanie Birkitt into a sexual relationship, the victim in this is actually Mr. Letterman. He was being blackmailed, reported it, and cooperated with the police despite the somewhat unfavorable light that was shone on him. Outrage over the Lewinsky affair of President Clinton is another thing I can’t get upset about. There is no evidence he even tried to pursue her and quite a bit that indicates she was in full pursuit mode. If you want to say he should have been more mature about I can’t argue, but people don’t act with the level of maturity they should about a lot of things and as long as they stay clear of criminality I don’t think it is right to harp on such lapses.
Reader Not Writer and Sally: I'm not sure why you think this is from 20 years ago. You can read Nell's entire essay on Vanity Fair online. She recently exited David Letterman writing room because of the hostile environment set up by high-level staff sleeping with women employees including Letterman himself. All Nell is saying is that in 20 years in the business, nothing has changed. In fact she recently sent in a packet to Lettermans team in response to a "job opening" for a writer and never heard a word back. No women writers need apply. She points out how common this is. You apply for jobs and never get a response and then the staff will say, oh but women don't apply! Yes, they do.
You are correct it isn't 20 years ago, only 19. She wrote for the show for about 5 months in 1990.
Given this, the defenses of Roman Polanski should appear even more absurd... yet, some will still defend him... includng some women.
I'm sure it is disheartening to many fans to find that their favorite smart-ass comedian is also a creepy old guy who hits on the girls in the office in his spare time. I say, "girls" because I doubt the women involved are anywhere near their mid-40s.

Life is undoubtedly unfair, but we sure don't have to lie down and take it. Speak up, speak out, be a factor in your own life.

Great personal story, Deborah. I'm sure your willingness to relate your experience, coupled with others, will help some young women to stand up for themselves - and potentially win the fight!
Right on, Deborah. It's amazing how little has changed in some worlds.
All the arguments, all the extenuating circumstances, all the "20 years is a long time ago" are smokescreens for one core truth. If Letterman used his position and his power to extort sex from a subordinate employee, that is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I'm a white male, and the way some of my colleagues have conducted themselves in the past and currently sicken me. Hang 'em high, I say.
Deborah,

Thanks for an insightful post and congratulations on a well-deserved EP. I saw your story several hours after I posted mine (on the same subject). http://open.salon.com/blog/kalpanam

I've taken a slightly different stance on it. I've been upset at Scovell for waiting this long to dangle men like Letterman by their (well) tail. But after reading your post, I see (with a little more clarity) why someone might just walk away. I think one of the BIGGEST, BIGGEST problems is that other women tolerate such behavior. In your case, it made your decision for you when your colleague couldn't understand why you couldn't put up with it.

Years ago (I was 20), while I was being interviewed for a reporter position in India, one of the five or six editors in the room (a very accomplished journalist) had the gall (he was just finished quizzing me) to turn to another man, smile knowingly and say "So-and-so, you can HAVE her now, if you like!" I was afraid to do anything about it then. But I'm still smarting over the incident and the fact that I let the famous man go. I wish I'd had the guts to stand up and tell the man that I was finished with the interview after listening to that one comment. Do read my post because when I was caught in a bad situation many years later in the US, I decided to act.
Many people who have not experienced sexual harassment will not believe it really happens. Just like the statistics I read about rape earlier today -- a large percentage of young men said if there was no law against rape, they'd do it. It's all tied up in these archaic ideas about women and what they're worth.

I second what Miss Mann said -- get this published and quick.
Obviously, for the sake of your career, you should have just slept with the guy.

Okay, OF COURSE I'm kidding and OF COURSE Letterman is sexually harassing female employees... and he didn't get caught the first, second, or third time that he did it. (Rated)
Deborah, I did read the essay. She worked there in the 90's, no matter what she sent in recently. I am very interested to hear what you think about the two female exec producers who essentially run the show. What part, if any, might they have played in a culture of harassment, or is it possible that while the writers team hiring seems to show discrimination against women, there is no actual harassment of the truly horrible kind you and many others (including me) experienced.
thank you! This is one of the very first entries on this subject that approached the subject in a level-headed way. As the head of production and the talent itself, Letterman had power over his employees, and wielded it based on his sexual preferences. That is a despicable and wrong thing to do.

The idea of blackmail too seems more than a little out of touch. After all, the man was going to write a book, and Letterman sent his LAWYER to deal with the settlement. From what I can glance, settlements are not uncommon or unknown. The fact that this man was arrested without a lot of evidence seems more than little fishy, and reeks of favoritism for a man with an evident amount of financial firepower behind him.

Letterman is not an innocent lamb. He built a career off of women in his employ. He should not be lauded but publicly shamed for his behavior toward female employees. What he has done is ultimately wrong.
This non-story begins with Nell Scovell, who created Sabrina, the Teenage Witch!

Sabrina, the Teenage Witch!

Sabrina, the Teenage Witch!

That crap-fest is like the definition of "no talent" for anyone who ever got near it, but for the creator of...

Sabrina, the Teenage Witch!

...a special place in the pop-culture Hall of Infamy is reserved, along with an eternally burning bag of dog-poop on his or her tomb.

Scovell's whiny, unfunny, and insubstantial article in Vanity Fair just makes it worse. Apparently she quit just because some female employees had sex with Letterman.

Adopting her ludicrous "style," let's ask and answer a few questions salient questions...

Was she treated with respect by Letterman? Yes. Did anyone force her to have sex? No. Did anyone even offer to have sex with her? No. Did Letterman sexually harass her? No. Did anyone make offensive remarks to her? No.

Did anyone at all sexually harass her, or even mention sex, or use the word "sex" within a mile of her?

I don't care.

Meanwhile all over the Third World there are about 800,000,000 women who would love to have a job with Letterman, 800,000,000 women who live and die in poverty while American feminists piss and moan about a show where no one was sexually harassed unless...

You expand the definition of sexual harassment to include anybody having sex with anybody else anywhere in the organization, and after that...

Every show on TV can hire a gang of mullahs to make sure that no one so much as glances at a heinie!

Eyes front!

Think only pure thoughts!

We got a comedy to write!
On the upside, this absurd diary gave me an idea for a pitch...

The Horribly Inhibited Comedy Hour!

Scene One:

7 men and 7 women in the writers' room stare at each other with mutual suspicion , while they slowly recycle "humor" from Sabrina, the Teenage Witch.

Harharharhar!!!

Get it?

"Humor" from Sabrina, the Teenage Witch!

Okay, sorry, I should have explained that Sabrina, the Teenage Witch was supposed to be funny!
Sally, you're right, she worked there in the 90's - mea culpa. If it is anything like I have experienced in the corporate culture the last 25 years, his two female producers could be part of the problem. Looking the other way, encouraging bad behavior, just as long as their jobs are secure. But it is worth looking into since that is just a guess. Thanks for the heads up!

My former female supervisor - where again - I walked away - sucked up to the male Dr. in charge who knew nothing but allowed him to make decisions that negatively impacted the women who worked for her - so long as her own behind was protected. While he screwed a woman in the next dept. while his wife worked at the same company. Sigh. I guess I've become cynical. How could his two producers not know what is going on?
I'm old enough to remember when sexual violence against women finally broke through as a topic that could and should be discussed, and the mantra that went along with it: rape is not about sex, it's about violence. As many different forms as workplace harassment can take, can we boil it down to "It's not about desire, it's about power"? There is a reason why the boss ends up with someone well below him on the organizational chart, or the established senior staffer goes after the junior one; an equal or supervisor would not have to put up with it and has the power to make it stop in a way that the junior person does not. Consenting to the relationship on the part of the junior person doesn't change the arithmetic; there's an inequity that poisons your choices.
I really identify with this. As I wrote in a recent post, I too was harassed by two bosses. It ended poorly for me both times, but it was long ago before I had much recourse.

This is a problem filled with nuance and it needs robust monitoring to go away.
Assholes are evenly distributed across the political spectrum. What does being liberal have to do with it?

And why is any extramarital relationship somehow perceived to be only/primarily based on sex -- like there could be no mutual attraction between two people just because there happens to be a societal institution that statistically biologically (not necessarily socially) favors alpha females? No loneliness in the world because the institution of marriage exists? No lack of communication? No needing to belong?

From what I've seen, most humans will fuck at the drop of the hat. But try to get them to introduce you to their parents.
@ Karin Greenberg: the place I worked where this phenomenon existed most blatently was dominated by Lesbians. Just saying.
There's no sit-com or Late night comic who writes better than Tina Fey. And I'll bet she doesn't hit on her co-workers or the interns.
True! How did/does Tina Fey make her way successfully? She must have a formula or a set of rules she follows? Please tell me she is part of the solution and the not the problem! [I love 30 Rock].
Deborah,
You've changed my mind. When I first head about this, I thought it was between two consenting adults and thus nobody elses business. After reading you post, I now agree that this was, by definition, a hostile work enviroment for women who did not want to have sex with Letterman or other staffers. Before, I found him sorta funny...at times. Now, I can't see his face without thinking of some poor writer who worked her ass off to get her "big break" only to get there and find out that she's gotta get on her knees to get ahead. I guess it's OBrian only for me now...
NerdMafia: you made my day.
I don't know, Deborah. I see plenty of evidence in this post that you were subjected to a hostile work environment. It's not clear that because you were, this former Letterman writer was, or anyone working there more recently. Someone else having sex with the boss, as long as it does not result in your being subjected to pressure to do the same, is not a hostile work environment. At least, this is what I learned in law school. Maybe I'll check out her article and see if it offers more evidence.

Like most women, I've experienced sexual harassment, and lost a couple of waitressing and bartending gigs as a result. Not jobs I cared a lot about, but it's humiliating nonetheless. I don't feel any sympathy for anyone using economic pressure to get sex, which in my mind is comparable to rape. I just wouldn't condemn Letterman for sexual harassment on these facts. I think it comes down to whether the simple fact of sex between people working together constitutes a sexual harassment. I don't think it does.

You make a very strong case the harm caused by sexual harassment. A post cannot say everything you know about a subject, and I certainly don't claim to know much about the situation in Letterman's office, but I don't feel that you've drawn enough of a line between your own horrible experience and the experience of Letterman's employees. The question that jumps out at me is, if there were a culture of quid pro quo, why don't more ambitious and unprincipled women sleep their way into the writer's room?
Well, maybe there is a lot less unprincipled women out there than you think. I've had the opportunity and never done it. Are we really in a culture that says, hey give it up for the corporate ladder instead of telling the men to just keep the d**** in their pants? Why does it always come down to the women having to give up, give it up, give away?

Enough already.
That is not what I said. What I said was that the claims of the woman writer left questions, and that I didn't think your situation necessarily proved anything about the Letterman one. I did not claim that there were any particular number of unprincipled women, so I'm not sure what you mean by "as many as I think." In quid pro quo situations, either someone is offered a benefit or actually receives a benefit in exchange for sex. I'm simply saying that this post does not contain evidence of either of those things happening. I'm open to seeing some. The existence of sexual discrimination, as in hiring through the old boy network or having a gender imbalance in the workplace, suggests the type of environment where sexual harassment could take place, but is not proof of it.

I do understand where you're coming from and as I said, I've experienced sexual harassment, too, though fortunately not in a job I was committed to. As I noted, it's akin to rape when someone's economic well-being is threatened. Your response to me sounded like anyone who doesn't jump on this Letterman bashing bandwagon must be insensitive to sexual harassment and in favor of sleeping your way up the corporate ladder. No such attitude was to be found in my comment.
Oh Sirenetalake, I must have misunderstood you. It seems to me the economic disparity between men and women is huge and this is one of the reasons. To men, women in the workplace are fair game for all kinds of things. For women, most of us just want our career and to work and to make money and not always be fending off the Lettermans of the world who look at the office like their own private match.com.

The fact that Letterman doesn't have any female writers, and has had very few in the past; condones a culture where higher-up men are sleeping with lower on the ladder women and enjoys extra-marital sex on the job while his wife is at home, I mean c'mon. Is this 1958 or 2009?

In my humble opinion.
Two things about this whole discussion, particularly in the back and forth between DY & SL, come to my mind: are women always in a lesser position in a relationship that includes sex and how are sexual relationships different from other relationships that might lead to favoritism?

Deborah, it seems that all you say about the sexual relationships on the Letterman staff and other workplaces assumes higher-up men are sleeping with lower on the ladder women which implies some level of coercion yet from everything I've read there's nothing that leads to that conclusion about the relative positions of the people involved. Someone's already mentioned Monica Lewinski in these comments and she is an important lesson about the relative positions of sexual aggressors - it's not always the one in the higher position who initiates the relationship.

In a similar vein, the assumption that Letterman enjoys extra-marital sex on the job while his wife is at home is striking to me. Has that been made clear? Do we know that this behavior continued after his relatively recent marriage? (I remember Stephanie but I don't remember when I stopped seeing her on the show.) And do we know what kind of a deal the Lettermans made in this marriage; for that matter, is it any of our business? It all strikes me as another iteration of the assumed default position of women as sexual puritans. Is that either necessary or accurate?

As far as I know I've never been subjected to sexual harassment (1, I've never been that attractive to men and 2, I can be pretty oblivious to things I don't expect to be happening). Once, though, I was in a position on a job of having friends higher positions than I and I had direct and indirect access to them and their even higher friends, at least one of whom was a company VP. Those connections allowed me to learn and do things in my own job that in turn allowed me to make progress that would not have been possible otherwise. Wasn't that just mentoring and networking? That's the situation came to my mind reading Nell Scovell's essay. How would her situation have been different if it was just a matter of people liking other employees better than her without any sexual involvement? What about people who bond because they all went to the same school or because their kids do, or if their kids play the same sport, they go to the same church, live in the same neighborhood, hang out at the same bar after work and so on and so on. Scovell's position seemed far more like one of these situations than the real sexual harassment you describe in your own life, Deborah.

(And Sabrina, the Teenage Witch really was a godawful show, absolutely nothing remotely funny about it.)
I think people need to realize that sexual harrassment isn't about sex, it's about power. A man can just as easily be sexually harrassed by a women in power over him as well. I think there should be some safeguards to prevent this type of thing but I think we have also gone WAAAAY beyond where we should have and now we just don't talk with anyone at work. It's easier that way, and sad.
As a guy I find it complicated to comment on sexual harassment. I remember my freshman soc class where I argued about the pervasiveness of sexual harassment with my prof. The assignment she gave me was simple. Ask my female relatives... all of them... if they had ever been sexually harassed. I remember doing it casually thinking I knew what was what at 18 and having my Mom tell me 5 stories off the top of her head, of my favorite aunt telling me 5 stories off the top of hers, of both my grandmothers telling me appalling stories, my older cousins... To say I was humbled by that teachable moment is a vast understatement. So please understand as I write this that I am doing my best to remain sensitive to the issue and to the overwhelming evidence of continual sexual harassment in the work place.

When the Letterman story broke my entire argument was that his lover and assistant was on the show... a lot. That she was the correspondent that covered two Olympics and a secret relationship, while not proving that favoritism took place, allows for favoritism in a pernicious way. The problem isn't that he was sleep with his assistant... I always felt like I had to point out she slept with her older boss at 48 hours as well as Letterman... the problem is that he kept it a secret. Work place romance is a reality of the modern world. There is no way to put that genie back in the bottle. There is, however, a professional way to mitigate it. Tell people. Say that you are dating, tell HR, tell people with authority, so that when issues like who gets to go to china for a month on CBS' dime living first class the whole way with a fat expense account everyone knows that the choice isn't about some secret affair that is going on. Letterman can sleep with whomever he chooses as long as it is consensual and this clearly was. The author making reference to the marital status of someone having a relationship is petty and detracts from her larger point. David Letterman doesn't owe this author or anyone else, except his wife, his fidelity. It is not this authors business whether he is faithful to his wife and her multiple mentions of married men, even going so far in her own travails to mention the relationship status of the man harassing her, diminishes her ability to argue this point. This isn't a morality tale, this is a conversation about the workplace and what is appropriate and inappropriate.

The assistant for Letterman got favorable treatment. Whether it was special or not is difficult to say, but she received veer favorable treatment and that fact that her receipt of this treatment coincided with her sexual relationship with the boss makes it instantly suspect. Letterman shouldn't have been sleeping around at work. It is a bad idea fraught with peril. What he did, by itself, isn't hostile work environment, but it could be and certainly violated any written policy for any major company like CBS. I haven't read their policy but it has to include this kind of thing in it. They all do.

J
You captured what I've been experiencing and feeling for my entire 38 year career. Despite being overtly and covertly harassed, I have continued to work with harassers, and several times, quit, due to harassment. Such unnecessary suffering is caused by this entitled male behavior, that most males do not recognize, even today. Thank you for writing this piece.
Excellent post!!!

Rated.
I think the term sexual harrassment is accurate here given it's definition in the workplace. Creating a perception of favoritism due to a sexual relationship is harrassment; and no, it doesn't have to be a pattern of behavior. It need only happen once to be wrong.

There is a reason companies don't want the boss sleeping with the underlings...because the underlings *not* being slept with might not get the raise they should get, might not get the choice assignments, might not get the title or the promotion or the office with a window, because the underling the boss is sleeping with is getting those things. Sure, she's the best employee and would have gotten those things anyway....but with sex in the equation, who is going to believe that?

The power imbalance between the boss and the employee creates in imbalance between the employee and her peers, which in turn creates tension and a sense of grievance in the organization, all of which is enough for the HR and legal departments to say "Not on the clock." You simply can't have an equitable work environment when one person in that environment has access to the boss in ways that no one else does. It's not only the woman being slept with that should be considered - she may do just dandy in fact. But try being the guy that got hired at the same time as her and she makes $20,0000 more. Try telling him she earned it. Even if she did, just try to make that fly.

And what could be worse than two people falling in lust looking for ways to communicate that lust surreptitiously? I'll tell you what's worse - when one of them decides to move on, and the other wasn't quite ready for that.
Great point. But it's not just women writers (including on this site) who are discriminated against. Look at the White House, which is already been called a "boy's club."

We're not only getting screwed, we're getting fucked. Or should I say raped. And it's getting worse, not better. In politics, in business, in relationships, and even the state's attitude in the courtroom.

Not to mention in who's going to be bailed out (all white male run banks with horrific track records of discrimination towards WOMEN AND MINORITIES). Advised by whom? The ex president of Harvard, Obama's chief economics advisor, who was fired from his post at the Ivy League Institution, for saying things like "women are biologically inferior to men when it comes to science, technology, politics and economics."

Or perhaps government set asides for women and minorities, like a recent RFP in New York, setting TOTAL SETASIDES in cleantech, which is very lucrative, to a total of 4%. NO THAT IS NOT A TYPO. With the Department of Labor, not to mention the Dept. of Energy, both ignoring this sexist attitude, but even perpetuating it. When it is a clear violation of Title VII.

I could go on, and I have plenty of examples, but we're going backwards not forwards. And unfortunately for some reason, women in their t

Welcome to reality folks.
Marguerite.....those are outright lies about Larry Summers....and if you really believe it, I suggest you go read up about it. Your women's studies teachers have taught you falsehoods. Most Americans reject setasides...and your right, they are going away completely. Soooo learn to compete, or get out of the way.
Thank you Sandra and Marguerite for your insightful comments - every woman has an entire blog in her on sexual harrassment.

And yes, Larry Summers, the ex-president of Harvard was fired for his prehistoric take on women and their "brains". Google it.
Thorough research. Good post, good points. Even though I didn't pay attention to that news story, I feel clued in now.