I've been watching the Glenn Beck rally on CSPAN, hosted by Glenn Beck and the Special Operations Warrior Foundation. Since my son has joined the Air Force this has a special resonance for me. Someday, God forbid, I might have a warrior son who is wounded or in need of help. I'm watching the crowd of about 500,000 who showed up on their own. No tickets, this is a free event. Money was raised through auctions throughout the year and donations. It's a beautiful day in Washington D.C. although I worry for those who don't wear hats or carry water - I hope they have a good first aid tent set up for the fainters.
So far I've seen Sarah Palin talk, watched Navy Seal Marcus Luttrell be honored, listened to Alveda King speak [MLK's niece], a Native American chief expound, a black pastor be honored, a hispanic baseball player talk about his life. My own cynical husband, a libertarian and as unpolitical as they get, even got tears in his eyes when the president of the Special Operations Warrior Foundation spoke.
I've read the Glenn Beck bashing on Open Salon with a sinking heart. Such intolerance and assumptions and made-up vitriol. An Open Call was announced to ask those in the Washington D.C. area to attend and report back on "this madness."
Whatever happened to living the classical liberal quote of Voltaire's that some of us still exercise? "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it?"
Since when do gatherings protected by the first amendment become targets of hatred? Even the KKK is still allowed to march in cities across America, protected by the local police who certainly do not agree with their message but under the law must allow them to march and protect them. These marches have become almost ho-hum. Let them march, they're insane. These marches do not even bring out the hatred and intolerance that a Glenn Beck "restoring honor" gathering brings. Seriously, Glenn Beck rally and "tractor-pull" as one writer attempted to defame it? I'm in farm country now. Oh how funny to have city elitists make fun of those of us who use tractors on a daily basis to do things as stupid as grow food for others. Ha-ha.
One Washington insider mocked the rally and asked, "Mr. Beck, when did we lose this supposed honor?"
Oh, I don't know. Maybe when the United States congress has an 11% approval rating? Maybe when our federal government since 1981 has created a Government Deficit that will change the American quality of life forever when that Federal Government Deficit bubble finally pops, as it must? Maybe when a majority of American jobs were shipped overseas leaving no jobs here and sweatshop jobs there? The list could go on and on.
If all of our economists and financial analysts and other government Big Heads who are paid good money could not predict or even talk about something as big and important as the Bubblequake that just hit us in 2008, what good are they? If they couldn't tell us so many banks would fail and the stock market would lose half its value and that it was perfectly normal for housing prices to go up 100% or more while people's incomes only went up a few percent, what good are they? So now millions of hardworking Americans have lost their jobs, their homes and their savings.
Maybe that's a little bit of lost honor right there.
Or as Alveda King wrote about one of the reasons she is speaking at it: "Americans are hungry to reclaim the symbols of our liberty, hard won by an unlikely group of outnumbered, outgunned, underfunded patriots determined not to live in servitude to the British Empire."
Martin Luther King spoke for all Americans, she points out. Not just black Americans.
Our country was built on honor, liberty, freedom of religion and freedom of speech. That's all this gathering is about. What is so horrifying about that? I've raised a son who has chosen to protect this country with his life if necessary. I can't imagine that kind of commitment and bravery. Or honor.
America has done some things wrong, like all other countries. America has done a great many things right. I don't see Italy running around apologizing for Mussolini and the millions murdered. Does Russia run around apologizing for Stalin and the millions murdered? Germany running around apologizing for Hitler and the millions murdered? Switzerland running around apologizing for taking in all the riches stolen from the murdered Jews and laundering the stolen monies for the Nazi's?
But America is always running around apologizing for something. It is no wonder that so many people crave the message that America is doing good, tries hard, is still the number one country that others risk their lives to get to. While slavery still exists in the Middle East and in Africa and China we are still asked to apologize for slavery in America when we are the only country that shed blood and divided a nation in order to end it. Is it any wonder we crave rallies that celebrate our good instead of scolding us once again for the past?
But the bigotry! Glenn Beck is white! So is the staff of Salon.com. Those in glass houses and all of that. The religious intolerance. Glenn Beck is Mormon! I watch the 500,000 people gathered at the Lincoln Memorial. All races, creeds and religions. I see a huge amount of Vietnam War Vets, long-haired and scarred and proud. I am touched. And to my son I say: Godspeed.
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Lauren J Barnhart
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I always wonder what happens to all that liberal tolerance when I see the vitriol that comes from some of these people.
Rated
I sincerely tried to be objective when I wrote my piece on the rally at the Lincoln Memorial. I approached it (as one commenter said) as a scientist. I truly attempted to leave my pre-conceived notions at home.
I smiled at women who looked just like me: hot, tired and middle aged. They smiled back. I tried to think about our commonalities instead of our differences. I thought about us as mothers. Today I am thinking about how I still don't "get" Glenn Beck and his message. But I do respectfully, agree to disagree with those who do get him. And I believe in live and let live...~r
However, this statement bothered me: "While slavery still exists in the Middle East and in Africa and China we are still asked to apologize for slavery in America when we are the only country that shed blood and divided a nation in order to end it."
An incredible number of Americans died in that war because half the country found slavery acceptable. The fact that slavery still exists in the Middle East, Africa and China does not in any way assuage the lingering negative effects of the practice of slavery in America. I and millions of other Americans of African descent are still suffering from the sins of long ago, so why wouldn't the descendnts of the perpetrators feel some level of need to at least acknowledge the sin?
Two wrongs have never made a right. Three, six or twelve of them don't either. You and I live in America. Whether or not other countries choose to fess up to their wrongs is patently irrelevant, in my opinion.
Lezlie
This piece is good enough for an EP cover, but we know it won't make it.
You can see that 2 libs posted on this and they contradict each other. So one of them is lying.
As we expected, but the left didn't, nothing bad happened and hero's were honored.
It isn't funny anymore, watching liberals attack Beck out of habit that they have to out and out lie. The only thing I can think of is that they practice these lies off camera.
If Beck and Palin want my respect they need to start earning it rather than using the America solder as a political chip.
Joan: I enjoyed your piece on the rally. I also enjoyed the speakers and Alveda King especially.
Razzle Dazzle: the number should be announced by tomorrow exactly how many attended. I listened to every speech and there was no hate, bigotry and racism propogated. Alveda agrees with me.
L in the Southeast: yes, it is an old-fashioned tone isn't it? I believe the sin of slavery in America has been acknowledged loudly and long for the last 40 years.
Two Thumbs: yes, nothing bad happened and hero's were honored.
Ocular: know your history - Beck was anti-Bush for at least the last two years of his presidency and quite vocal about the policies of his he disagreed with.
I stand in good stead with Alveda King who judges people by the content of their character which we have all been asked to do.
I don't like Glenn Beck: I don't like that he manipulates people, that he's prone to bury a truth within a thousand lies, that he claims his are the "true" American values (and disparages any other point of view), that he makes his living shouting down others from his rarefied talk radio platform, that he panders to fear, that he hounds the duly elected President of the United States and encourages others to do so, and that he leaves no room for common ground.
I do recognize that his followers are people with legitimate concerns about their jobs, their prospects, their futures, or their sons and daughters at war. If only they recognized that other people share those concerns--non-Christians, non-believers, people of color, gays, immigrants both legal and illegal, those who live on the coasts, those who went to so-called elite schools, those who believe the government might be able to help and those who don't--we might come to ground. To muddy the focus with pointless, unproductive and, frankly, dangerous side trips into whether Obama was born in this country or whether we are a Christian nation serves only to further the view by those on the left that Beck's followers are intolerant.
No, looking down our noses is pointless and yes, there is a great deal of Beck-bashing going on on OS, which is the kid brother of Big Salon, which is a left-leaning outlet. But there has also been much discussion about "understanding our opposite numbers, something I never see in the Wall Street Journal or hear on Fox News--ever.
I'm willing to have a discussion with people who feel differently than I do about issues, but I can't if the America they set up as the "true" one has a fence around it too impossible for me to climb.
I found the rally to be as Alveda King describes it: "The rally will be a celebration of who we are as a nation and a chance to stop for a moment, reflect, reorganize, and re-energize. It’s a chance to think about character; both our character as a nation and our character as individuals.
Delineating ourselves as red state or blue, liberal or conservative, minority or majority, we have not quite reached the day when men and women are “judged not by the color of their skin but on the content of their character.” We are still marching toward that day. As Uncle Martin said, “we cannot turn back.”
It was a moving assembly.
I only saw snippets of the GB rally and I was quite impressed. Wish I had seen the entire thing. I so agree with you, that it is time to put aside the partisan poli-attacking on Glenn Beck. This guy is the poster child for America and he is mad as hell at all who have brought this country to its knees. Forget about the rantings and ratings based stuff he puts out on Fox at times, the man underneath is passionate about this country and dedicated to putting the word out, even at the expense of being attacked, hated and threatened for his style. He sees through all the partisan bs of both sides and makes no bones about it in his rantings. A point of view that I share more and more and that is, that the two party system is dividing us in ways that will further erode the infrastructure of our country, as surely as the economic web has devolved and left us vulnerable for dissolution of power play in the world. Glenn is the mouse that roared and he is not going away. Whether we like him or not, popularity be damned. The man has something to say and it is "pro America."
I suspect I won't change your mind about Glenn Beck, Deborah, but I think OS shows a range of views about this rally. Joan H.'s post is excellent and balanced. I wrote a mocking piece based on Beck's claim, ...I think we reclaim the civil rights movement... We will take that movement because we are the people that did it in the first place.
I haven't read all the OS posts about the event, but the ones I have read aren't saying that the government should have shut it down--that's a First Amendment issue, and it's the point of Voltaire's quote. Some of us are expressing the view that Beck is a charlatan, expressions that are also consistent with Voltaire. What should we do when we vehemently disagree, just nod and say, "Okay, if that works for you..."?
Great point. Although I identify as a liberal, even I suffer from racism fatigue. In a cover article on Salon, a writer literally counted each black person he saw at the rally. What really irritates me is how Europeans are treated as our social betters with enlightened views on race. Oh really?
"November 2004: Black English players Shaun Wright-Phillips and Ashley Cole are abused by “monkey chants” when Spain hosts England in an exhibition game in Madrid"
Can you ever imagine something like that happening at a U.S. football game? It defies belief yet such racist outpourings are common amongst our more sophisticated European brethren. For a complete list, click here:
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/29059824/ns/sports-soccer/
Kyle, overgeneralizations and exaggerations are unfortunately common in political talk, and I agree that they can be harmful and hurtful.
I commented on this post for a similar reason: there's some nuance in a lot of people's reactions to Beck. I don't hate him; I think he's worthy of ridicule.
Rob: your opinion is just as important as anybody. But to suggest that "white" people are hijacking the civil rights message is weird. It was the democrats in 1964 who filibustered against its passage. Without strong republicans pushing for it, it wouldn't have passed. Al Gores father and Robert Byrd worked feverishly against it: The bill came before the full Senate for debate on March 30, 1964 and the "Southern Bloc" of 18 southern Democratic Senators and one Republican Senator led by Richard Russell (D-GA) launched a filibuster to prevent its passage.[4] Said Russell: "We will resist to the bitter end any measure or any movement which would have a tendency to bring about social equality and intermingling and amalgamation of the races in our (Southern) states."[5]
The most fervent opposition to the bill came from Dixie lawmakers, like Senator Strom Thurmond (D-SC): "This so-called Civil Rights Proposals, which the President has sent to Capitol Hill for enactment into law, are unconstitutional, unnecessary unwise and extend beyond the realm of reason. This is the worst civil-rights package ever presented to the Congress and is reminiscent of the Reconstruction proposals and actions of the radical Republican Congress."[6]" Thank God the democrats lost that battle.
Kateasly: thanks for being open minded.
Kyle: you're welcome
Anthony: that Imam already has a mosque, there are over 100 in New York city and they practice freedom of religion everyday. Lots of buildings don't get built in America everyday because the community opposes it.
Travis: Yes, Europeans have a horrible racist past and present but we're the only ones constantly apologizing for ours.
The republican politicians are a little more obvious in their protecting of the money giants.
Tea party anger is woefully misdirected towards the bottom of the money chain (undocumented immigrants/refugees, for ex.) instead of up top to the corporations who break laws.
Big money is spent on politicians and conning working class folks into believing that removing corporate regulations will actually benefit them.
You said "I and millions of other Americans of African descent are still suffering from the sins of long ago, so why wouldn't the descendnts of the perpetrators feel some level of need to at least acknowledge the sin?"
So I assume you also feel the need to acknowledge the sins of your African forefathers who sold their fellow Africans into slavery?
Also, if you find that you are working for a company that is in some way immoral, when do you quit your job? The next day? What if you have a family and children dependent on you?
It is historically wrong to say " half the country found slavery acceptable. " The entire country was economically dependent on slavery and many in the South realized you can't just change that over night.
Your smear tactics certainly don't earn my respect. If you want that you have to deal with facts, not innuendo.
though i can never resist poking fun at sacred cows whenever they wander in on either side of the aisle.
i will keep your son in mind at all times. thank him for serving our country, and i hope and pray that he will tell his grandchildren about his service.
As for honour, I have a lot of respect for that notion. But you have to see this event in context, and the context is Beck's daily rants about your "racist" black president. It's the people in the crowd with T-shirts saying: "America - Love It or Go Back to Kenya!"
Honour? Really?
When I see an amount of pale skin normally only on display at Rush Limbaugh's bath time, I don't immediately think: "Hey, those are the heirs of Martin Luther King, Jr.!" They would have to earn that position. I get the impression that many of those people are old enough to have been around when MLK gave his speech on those steps. But I doubt many of them were there. They probably rejected that honour.
The republican politicians are a little more obvious"
I am equally disappointed by the dems, believe you me
But to suggest that "white" people are hijacking the civil rights message is weird.
So you think that those who attended the Glenn Beck rally yesterday would have marched for civil rights way back when? Why would some of the crowd boo when Martin Luther King's name was mentioned, as in Joan H.'s account?
So, when Beck is expressing intolerance, assumptions and vitriol on a daily basis on his show, it is all right? He has the right to say whatever he wants, but I have a right to despise him for the hate and twisted facts he habitually spews towards anything the government trying to do in good faith for bettering lives of average americans. The bashing, or rather, I would say, criticizing Beck on Salon ahead of his event is a result of the fact that he mostly saying, to put it mildly, untrue and hateful things about people and policies he disagrees with. I will start respecting Beck when he would be able to hold an informed reasonable argument and not just burst into tears about the country of his childhood supposedly stolen from under him. But somehow I doubt that would ever happen, for he is being paid very pretty money by very rich people to do what he does: twist facts and sow hate towards immigrants, liberals, unemployed, poor and president Obama.
He has been clever enough to paint himself a national hero because of his over the top performance style. He isn't a journalist, he is a political entertainer, the PT Barnum of the Tea Party. This is not illegal, but it is the essence of what he is doing. Good for him for "uniting" a few disgruntled white folks, but what is he uniting them in? I have no idea what the message actually is, other than "honor" is taken away? That sounds like the same kind of slippery slope in honor killings and fascist propaganda, I don't know how I personally as a generally well educated, white, generally liberal person has stolen any honor from anyone. I pay taxes, I get no government handouts, and I have few breaks waiting for me as I pay off the debts I have incurred. That is due to my character as a person, not my honor as a patriot. It also has to do with my understanding that I can't be expecting the government to be planning for my future. It would be great if they did, but they don't.
I do respect people who serve our country, but they are not the only people with honor or patriotism. And using that rhetoric to paint people black/white or red/blue is the kind of crap that starts civil wars and militias arming, like lynch mobs. As to the Germans, they have been paying for World War 1 and 2 legally and financially for the last 80 plus years. And yes, they have apologized repeatedly. Apologies won't end the past, only time and recognizing hate speech and hate actions and hate politics for what they are.
That America is always running around apologizing for something--and other countries don't...is yet another oft seen exaggeration.
Blackflon displays another meme -- objections are based on irrational hatred. Easy, and requires no thought or body of evidence.
Kyle chimes in with another-- any disagreement leads to accusations of racism. Obviously untrue but, lacking a cogent argument, it is a way of shifting responsibility to the amorphous "other side."
It's nice that Glenn Beck and Palin took a day off from political garbage demagoguery to have a politicized religious experience. It's nice they love God and country, but it doesn't make up for the rest of their time spent trying to tear the country apart for glory and profit.
John Wayne Gacy, for example, did charity clown shows, but...
My experience was not the one shown on TV or reported upon in the media. By and large, it was a positive experience and there was no encouragement of hate or hate speech at the rally I attended at Dunbar, nor am I saying that speakers at Restoring Honor spoke in such a manner. And, for the record, Al Sharpton did not utter one single word of prejudice.
I can tell you, the only numbers that have been reported are "tens of thousands" and no exact numbers will be reported because the Parks and Recreation services no longer does exact counts. That ended in 1997.
Please don't confuse my opinion on Glenn Beck with the legal issue surrounding his right to speak and organize as he did. When you say "Since when do gatherings protected by the First Amendment become targets of hatred?" I say, "Since the beginning of our fledgling democracy." I mean, duh. Any gathering that must use the First Amendment as a rallying cry by definition has a built-in army of detractors, regardless of political affiliation. War protesters and tax protesters alike must deal with the hatred of the unlike-minded. Your offering up the KKK verifies my point, not yours. Of course they are targets of hatred.
You ask, aggrieved, what is so horrifying about honor and the first amendment freedoms and patriotism, etc., and I say "Who is suggesting those things are horrifying?" This is Straw Man Argument 101. I'm frankly offended when conservatives wend themes of patriotism and the military throughout their arguments, as though they are the slightest bit relevant and as though they aren't frank attempts to hijack the conversation. Your son's career choice is admirable, but it is unrelated to the issues about which liberals and conservatives disagree. My own brother is an AF Colonel and commander of a major AF base in America, but you don't see me bringing that up when I'm arguing tax, religion, or social issues.
Your answer to when our country supposedly lost its honor is this:
Oh, I don't know. Maybe when the United States congress has an 11% approval rating? Maybe when our federal government since 1981 has created a Government Deficit that will change the American quality of life forever when that Federal Government Deficit bubble finally pops, as it must? Maybe when a majority of American jobs were shipped overseas leaving no jobs here and sweatshop jobs there? The list could go on and on.
and I think the crux of the liberal response to your argument is that conservatives not only didn't care about these things during the mostly Republican reign of the last few decades, but they actively created the problems. It begs the question of why this populist rage has sprung up precisely now. That is what leads some down the path of wondering if racism--an inherent and unconscious tribalism that triggers a fear of other--is at the *root* of this particular *grassroots* movement. I haven't personally answered the question for myself; I go back and forth on it, and if you care to know, my best argument against racism as a motivation for the inchoate anger we're seeing has everything to do with my conviction that had Hillary Clinton won the Presidency we'd be witnessing something similar, albeit with some slight changes in vocabulary.
The issue of Glenn Beck and his followers being white is directly relevant because of his claim that "we" started the civil rights movement and want to reclaim it. At the simplest level, photographs of the two events provide prima facie evidence to the contrary, and color is at the heart of it. Were that not the case, we'd have to look deeper, but the point is that we don't.
As for the Beck bashing on OS, I'm surprised, actually, at the measured response of some posters like Joan H. and time traveller to the event. Have you seen their pieces? I agree with you that the open call (which I didn't see), which apparently included the word "madness" when referring to Beck, was anything but objective, but please remember that Open Salon is not a news site. There are no claims to objectivity, unlike the ridiculously fatuous Fair and Balanced Fox.
What an odd post.
"We just don't have much respect for his [Beck's] words."
Is this the royal we you are using, or are you informing us that you speak for all OS bloggers who dislike Beck? I'd really like to know specifically what group this "we" is referring to and how you got to be spokesperson for it.
Worse, apparently when Norwonk looks at a group of people he first sees their race, and this determines what he thinks they believe about an issue. (CAPS used for emphasis)
"I get the impression that many of THOSE PEOPLE are old enough to have been around when MLK gave his speech on those steps. But I DOUBT many of them were there. They PROBABLY rejected that honour."
All this based on "the amount of pale skin normally only on display at Rush Limbaugh's bath time."
I really hope you can find a way to rid yourself of your race-tainted glasses.
Yes, Republican support for civil rights legislation was instrumental in its passage. However, the movement conservatives--which Beck, Palin, et al, are extensions of--fought against civil rights. Goldwater, the first movement conservative pres candidate ran on virulent anti-communism and State's Rights--which at that time didn't need to be a silent dogwhistle for preserving Jim Crow.
The Republicans who did push for passage would be considered RINOs in today's rigidly ideological GOP.
We do now have something in common though ... your son, and Rams just don't get the same education here as everyone else. for obvious reasons, is now with my kids, who between have done 5 tours in Bush's lies. It's nearly killed me with worry, so now you will see what its like.
I'm sure you feel better now yakking up tractors ... no educated person wants corporate food, we don't eat it any more and only did because of the last big war in the first place.
When you defend Beck, you defend HATE ... the Mormon leaders, hopefully not all the sheep, HATE Gays- they spent millions in Cali to Hate, Hate, Hate ... you stand behind them!
Did you listen to the Brothers Cazimero when you were here? How about Kealii Reichel? How about any Hawaiian music? They, like so many of our, and the world's, artists who enrich our lives are Gay, Gay, Gay! They want to get married and deserve to ... people like Beck don't want them to ... you support HATE!
You spent time here but couldn't see a damn thing.
AUWE
The man offers a daily drumbeat of division for a living, earning $32 million last year selling his paranoid snake oil. It’s almost impossible to keep up with Beck’s serial fearmongering, though a stroll through Media Matters will give an authoritative sampling. Just a few of his greatest hits include:
• “We are a country that is headed toward socialism, totalitarianism, beyond your wildest imagination.”
• “There is a coup going on. There is a stealing of America… done through the guise of an election.”
• “The president is a Marxist... who is setting up a class system.”
• “The government is a heroin pusher using smiley-faced fascism to grow the nanny state."
• “The health-care bill is reparations. It's the beginning of reparations."
• And of course, speaking of President Obama, “I believe this guy is a racist” with “a deep-seated hatred of white people.”
You can’t profit from fear and division all week and then denounce them one Saturday on the National Mall in Washington and hope nobody notices. End quote.
"So I assume you also feel the need to acknowledge the sins of your African forefathers who sold their fellow Africans into slavery?"
You assume correctly. The Africans who sold their citizens into slavery were every bit as culpable and those who purchased those people on this side of the voyage. It was wrong from sea to shining sea.
I HAVE quit jobs in protest of a company's immoral activities. I wouldn't have the luxury of doing so in today's economic environment if I had a family to support. However, I wouldn't hesitate to admit that the company is guilty of immoral practices. I did it all the time, before I retired.
Lezlie
What is your point? That those of us who disagree with Beck and the Tea Party people are not patriotic?
This was clearly a disguised political event wrapped in the the flag meant to further the agenda of a particularly selfish brand of conservatism.
I'll not be lectured by you, Beck, Palin, or any of the Tea Party people about honor, patriotism, and small-r republican values. You folks do not have the market cornered on love of country.
We can disagree about politics and policy--and we should, it is healthy in a republic. But don't you dare throw the flag in my face. You Tea Party people do not own honor, service, and sacrifice. You do not own what it means to be an American.
*slow clap*
Second, caroline marie, Oryoki Bowl, Norwonk, Nikki Stern, Snowball999, and Rob St. Amant have already said a lot of what I was going to say.
-----------------------
It seems to me that Beck supporters are maybe a bit too sensistive about a whole number of things. They're outraged that 51 Park would go into a neighborhood that already has strip clubs and McDonalds honoring 9/11. And they're aghast at the persecution that Beck supporters have about people who exercise their rights of free speech to criticize someone with whom they disagree. And yet, there's not one iota of outrage about the Muslim cabdriver in New York who was attacked because of his religion, or the numerous firebombings and vandalism of mosques in this country.
Is there selective outrage in the human species? I think so.
And as to your outrage at the current state of affairs in the United States; I'm every bit as angry as you are about the situation. In fact, I'm angry at the same people you are. I think one of the areas where we disagree is in locating the source of power -- the source of our problems. You see the government as the all powerful entity, the evil one. I see the government as merely an institution of democracy, not a dictatorship.
And that's part of the problem. Because we ARE a democracy or a republic and not a dictatorship, that means that Washington DC is open for business. And open for business it always has been. And that means that the lobbyists on K Street are the ones who make the policies of this government the vast majority of the time because they're horribly expensive. And that means that the little people like you and me are oftentimes frozen completely out of the governmental process because of corporate interests.
Of the rich, by the rich, and for the rich. The corporations shall not perish from the earth. These are the real powerbrokers of America, and government is only a handmaiden to the wealthiest people in the country.
For example, you can complain about the socialistic health care bill that was passed, but when you look at it you'll discover that it really benefits the corporate interests of the insurance companies and Big Pharma more than it benefits the people. And I can give you a hundred more examples of this.
The puppetmasters in this country find it convenient to scapegoat minority groups in this country as it lets the big money go off scot free while they continue to feed at the government trough. LOOK! THE BLACKS! THE ILLEGALS! THE GAYS! etc, etc, etc.
And meanwhile the Fortune 500 and the banksters get their tax breaks, paying less in income tax than YOU do.
We might find more to agree with when your side starts looking at who REALLY holds the power in this country.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/opinion/29rich.html?src=me&ref=general
The tea parties have been created and funded by two billionaires. "We the people" ? I don't think so.
What is your basis for this claim?
People don't dislike, despise, or hate Beck merely because he's a conservative, as Blackflon suggests, but because to many, including me, he seems insincere and phony. I don't believe a word that he says but I totally support his right to speak.
As far as your brave son and the rest of our military I wish them nothing but safety and success.
Congrats on the EP.
"Can you ever imagine something like that happening at a U.S. football game?"
Yep.
Beck is taking you all to the bank, the Koch's are playing on your fears of a planet where all are equal ... you are SUCKERS, SAPS and drowning in credulity.
I'm confused. You and Beck both say that America has lost its honor. Yet you also say that Americans should stop apologizing.
So what is the point here? The message seems to be that America is going to hell in hand basket, but is still better than everyone else.
Please let me express my admiration for your thoughtful posting. And I agree that the patriotism and courage shown by your son is worthy of the highest admiration.
I can even agree that most of the sentiments expressed at the gathering in Washington were probably positive and decent.
But you are wrong.
The crowd did not show up "on their own". The event had been promoted for months on right wing radio and television. Some attendees were bussed in by right wing groups funded by the Koch brothers, following in their father's John Birch Society footsteps. And it wasn't a "free" event. Various right wing organizations picked up the tab.
And what's wrong with this?
Well, most of us feel that when the right wing finally gained absolute political power with the stolen 2000 election, things got very bad very quickly. A balanced budget turned into enormous deficits. Our military was sent into harm's way to benefit oil companies and defense contractors, based on deliberate lies told to the American people. Civil liberties came under ferocious assault, as the NSA was turned loose to spy on every American telephone and Internet communication.
And during all this time, Fox News and Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly and Glenn Beck said nothing but praise and support for the crimes being committed against us, nothing but hate and viciousness for anyone opposing these things.
Why? Well, the rich were getting richer. You're right to worry that a lot of our jobs have been shipped overseas. But that didn't hurt the CEOs, just us and our kids. And of course there were warnings that the housing market was in trouble? But with Republicans running the Treasury no one was going to step in to keep the greedy rich from trying new schemes to get even richer.
You're right to be upset, Deborah. But you're wrong about Beck. He is one of the corporate-owned lackeys whose job it is to deceive people like you. They aren't conservatives. They're just liars and thieves. You may have started to wonder why voting for Republicans makes deficits expand, shreds civil liberties, weakens national defense with military adventures and pork barrel contracts, and lets people die on rooftops in New Orleans. There is a reason for all of this.
The Republican Party has sold its soul to private corporate interests. They have a public face, which you saw in Beck's phony extravaganza. But if you vote for them, if you give them political power, they use it only to benefit themselves and their cronies. You, and your son, and all of our sons are expendable.
The rest of us don't like Beck because we see through him. You have to look beyond what was said in Washington yesterday. You have to realize that Beck and Palin and Fox are lying to you.
Beck has the First Amendment right to lie, to call Obama a racist. Palin has the First Amendment right to lie, to call Obama a terrorist. And I have the First Amendment right to call of them damnable liars.
You're wrong, Deborah. These people are your enemies and your son's enemies.
Beck is an meglomaniac, as is Palin. They both make me sick. Beck's rants especially. His stupidity would be laughable, if it wasn't so scary. Yes, there is free speech.
So when I see you write "I watch the 500,000 people gathered at the Lincoln Memorial. All races, creeds and religions.", I can only wonder "WHY? WHAT?" WHY do these people support a man who is devoted to an organization that hated all people different until the late, late '70s? WHAT are these people doing here?
I am a thirteen year old girl, and I know, from listening to Palin's incoherent babbling, and to Beck's disgusting rants, that I know better than either of them. Am I the meglomaniac? I think not. I do not think it takes much to beat them for brains.
You are right that Salon is, by its own admission, left leaning, but I do think there is an attempt to provide a range of perspectives on this particular event, including yours. As you know, I tend to be more of a moderate, and although I admitted to some bias in my own piece by virtue of my heritage and some innate skepticism, I did try to provide a relatively balanced piece that was intended to give perspective. There are many who've gone into further detail on that than I have, including some of the articles linked at the bottom of my own. I enjoyed your own piece above and am happy to see it get wider viewing and be embraced by readers here across the political spectrum.
A further point--I can agree with certain things that Glenn Beck advocates and espouses and still wonder where exactly he sits on the spectrum between sincere citizen and snake oil salesman. I can say that about many people on both the left and the right. I do not hate Glenn Beck. I see him through a particular lens, as we all do.
Tea Partiers are overwhelmingly white, male, older, and Christian. There is more diversity, literally, at my son's private all-boys high school, where they make a concerted attempt to recruit inner city kids.
His evangelism is something that appeals to a broad spectrum of people. It will be interesting to watch his evolution.
Did we really need a rally to thank the troops? Is there some groundswell of troop-hating of which I am not aware?
Do we really need to be more religious? While I appreciate the idea of leading a life where one does their best to be kind, generous, and recognizing the divine spark in others, it seems to me that religious fundamentalism of any stripe is the root of many problems in our culture. In any case, re we really an unGodly nation? It seems to me that, compared with other developed nations, more of our citizens regularly attend religious services, church attendance, belief in God, and want to live by religious values.
What on earth does becoming more Godly (untethered to issues of social justice - doing good works) and honoring our troops have to do with "reclaiming the civil rights movement", as Beck promised this rally would do? Dr King was a minister, but he fused his religious values with calls to action for eliminating poverty and injustice. He was also a pacifist, who viewed the war of his time as a grave injustice.
At first glance, based on what has been reported, the rally was uncontroversial (who is going to say "Hate the troops!" "Hate God!" and be considered sane?) But ... it doesn't really do anything.
I am thankful that there were no (or very few) signs that were offensive and hateful. I am grateful there was little overt political electioneering (Sarah Palin - who certainly got her snark in - aside).
But, when you take away the race-baiting and Obama-bashing, there seems very little left to hang one's hat on.
"I don't see Italy running around apologizing for Mussolini and the millions murdered. Does Russia run around apologizing for Stalin and the millions murdered? Germany running around apologizing for Hitler and the millions murdered? Switzerland running around apologizing for taking in all the riches stolen from the murdered Jews and laundering the stolen monies for the Nazi's?"
- who, exactly, among the American political elite is going around
"apologizing" for America's crimes? Barack "the socialist, Muslim, America hater" Obama? Expanding the counterinsurgency in Afghanistan, scolding his former pastor for stoking racial tensions, finding ways to circumvent the Constitution (trying to destroy Miranda, claiming the right to assassinate American citizens deemed, extrajudicially, to be a threat to national security). What a funny way of being timid about American power!
- have you spoken to any Russians, Italians, Swiss, or Germans? Germans, especially, have done plenty of apologizing for Hitler's crimes, and if there is one nation on earth that is now inoculated against nationalist self-aggrandizement, it is Germany. You may want to read about Willi Brandt at the site of the Warsaw Ghetto in 1970 before you make any generalizations about other nations' sense of responsibility to the world.
Since you so insistently either suggest or explicitly state that America is so apologetic for its role in the world, let me ask you: what examples can you produce? The over 730 military bases across the globe, in the teeth of immense popular opposition by the nations affected? The routine solitary vote against UN resolutions condemning outrages by Israel against the Palestinians? Our uniqueness, among the world's 180-plus nation-states, in our desire to isolate and break Cuba? Our military spending far exceeding that of the other nations on earth combined? The insufferable and interminable habit that we have of telling every other country on earth how great we are, that we are, in spite of all social indicators and evidence to the contrary, that we are #1? We have a funny way of being apologetic.
I don't hate Beck, he is making millions from morons and that is an American tradition.
And who could blame him?
Like Glenn Beck, MLK's niece Alveda is an extremely aggressive right-wing political warrior and loose cannon. Unlike Beck, she's black and people on the right will dump her as soon as her mouth gets her in trouble.
. . . which should be any minute now.
as expected.
But still a shame
Personally, I have a fantasy where Beck has a "Lonesome Rhodes" moment, and is exposed for the phony that he is. A girl can dream, can't she?
Someone else asked what the point of this rally was. I'd like to know too. What does America need to be "restored" to?
Beck is a racist, a bigot, and is intolerant of religions other than Christian religion. He lies about Democrats and misrepresents political facts on a daily basis. He hurts America by pushing this nonsense on gullible people.
The Democrats in office have their hands full fixing the very serious problems caused by the destructive years of the conservative Republican Bush administration. But the author of this post wants us to be silent and allow Beck and his ilk to damage America? Why -- so the lunatics can run the asylum?
Yes, Glen Beck is similar to the KKK, and like the KKK, he is allowed to assemble. Most of us also expose the KKK for what it is, and there is no reason not to expose Beck too. Free speech includes us as well as the hate-mongers who hurt America. Bad things happen only when good people do nothing.
I defend your right to say what you believe, but I suggest you review your economics, history and geography: Beck supports the same people whose policies created both the deficit and the economic meltdown, who created the markets that shipped jobs overseas. Slavery is everywhere--because of profit motive and free markets, but greatest in India, not in China, Africa or the Middle East. No one questions Beck's right to march, but some question his sensitivity (not to mention 'motive')! Sound familiar? Alveda is a pale shadow of her uncle, obsessed with abortion, spouting divisive rhetoric, desperate to thrust her religion upon others and take away women's freedom of choice. You can easily Google the many German apologies. Or Japanese. Maybe you're right about Italy and Switzerland, so what? Do we teach our kids not to apologize because another kid's parents may have lower standards? To regain honor we must reclaim our principles.
Most disturbing, and awaiting clarification: what's the glass house thing about? Are you suggesting at the end of your piece that white people should stick together and not bash Beck because he's white too? I'm not clear what you meant.
Germany is very outfront in it's attitude toward Nazism. While those born before 1970 or so tended to be so embarassed that they never wanted to speak honestly about it (kind of like Americans and slavery), younger generations have done quite the opposite. For example, young (non-Jewish) Berliners went into what was once a Jewish neighborhood in their city and marked places that were once Jewish homes or businesses to show how much had been lost.
Recently, during the World Cup, many Germans were upset by the large scale use of their flag to cheer for their soccer team. "We know where nationalism leads" was their general refrain, and some bars and restaurants sponsored "no flag" viewing of the games. For some Germans, you see, honor means acknowledging both the value and the vices of patriotism.
What troubles many people about Beck (aside from his inconsistency -- he seems to attack people he doesn't like for holding positions he recently espoused himself) is exactly the opposite -- a willful refusal to acknowledge that we are not the paragons we portray our country as. We are, as you yourself point out, no better than many countries at many things. That we can be better, everyone seems to agree. What "better" would mean is the source of the argument.
We should think carefully about what it means that a country like Germany could take patriotism to such an extreme that it brought ruin on themselves and all of Europe, and then have the courage to face that honestly and vow never to allow that again. Germany has restored a good life and honor to its citizens in a vastly different way than Beck proposes.
"Someday, God forbid, I might have a warrior son who is wounded or in need of help."
Just how do you expect Glenn Beck to be of help should something like that happen? What on earth makes you think liberals don't care what happens to our soldiers? We're the ones trying to get them out of harms way.
I remain unsure whether Beck is just plain nuts or just playing nuts. His little chalkboard flowcharts about who's controlling the country are about on the same level as the ones that lunatics paste to the walls of bus stops, and the man just don't seem all there mentally or emotionally.
Either way, while I agree with his right to get up there at the Lincoln Memorial or on TV and say whatever nonsensical conspiracy theory pops into his brain, I do think the man--or rather the folks he gets into a frothy fear and rage--is dangerous. There's a whole subset that does not question a word that comes out of his mouth and considers anyone who DOES question Beck, Hannity, Palin, Limbaugh, etc. unpatriotic, un-American, un-Christian, etc.
And his little lederhosen-clad spiel about Americorps being like the Hitler Youth was both patently untrue and hugely insulting to people of German heritage and former Americorps volunteers (both of which I am).
No one denies Mr. Beck's right to free speech. By the same token, he cannot deny my right to disagree with him.
Have you ever seen little back children being taunted because of their race? I have. Have you seen little black children attending horribly inferior schools because of their race? I have. Have you seen black adults being denied the right to vote because of their race? I have. Have you seen white men laughing with glee because civil rights workers were murdered? I have.
Just because the Civil Rights Act went into effect before you were born, does not mean that our society has achieved racial equity. It most certainly has not.
The difference between a liberal and a conservative? Liberals have the ability to experience empathy. Conservatives do not and furthermore, do not even understand what empathy is.
I have witnessed more racism than you can imagine. Racism has hurt my spirit. And, by the way, I am white.
Please do not believe that racism is over. That slavery was not that big of a deal. That black people do not still suffer from centuries of racism and bigotry.
Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
I have no vitriol toward conservatives. I just feel sorry for them. They are lacking in the sense of togetherness that all humans should feel toward all other human beings, not just those who look likd them.
I consider you a friend, whether you are Republican or otherwise, and I have many people who are conservative friends. I think all the lunatic fringe, both Democratic and Republican, deserves to be poked fun of. That's free speech, too. I never supported the Health care amendment, not because I don't think its made some headway in getting people more coverage, but because I think it makes us beholden to a system which continues to line the pockets of Wall Street Companies (Insurance) while not monitoring them closely enough, which also feeds the corporate funded congress on both sides of the aisle. That is not partisan, that is corporate owned.
All that being said, I do not like what Glenn Beck stands for. I've read a lot of the literature he espouses, which is far from balanced, and had discussions with several Beck supporters on a regular basis. The thing I walk away feeling each time is that people are supporting a muddled message (not clear what they are supporting), angry, happy to have someone to scapegoat, but love that Beck is bringing it to their attention and by default, love him. That scares me more than a little bit. The generic message that he spouted yesterday pulls at heartstrings and invites people in, and most don't even know what it is their supporting (see Joan's piece). That is the making of a very scary leader in my book, to the likes of Hitler scary. Oroyoki Bowl eluded to it earlier in her comment, but this man does nothing in his daily actions towards the idea of honor, he is selling the idea of honor at other people's expense. Glenn Beck's actions are cowardly and disingenuous - I find him to be an alarming fraud.
Thank you for providing a forum for open discussion, whether we agree or not. Best to you and your family always.
The fact that we are in America gives Mr. Beck the right to say what he wants. I respect that right. I just wish he were held accountable for his falsehoods and righteous fomenting. But that will not be today. Nor tomorrow.
America has a hunger for what he's offering. It's too bad he cloaks his lies in the very thing "we" are seeking - togetherness, a sense of belonging, a national pride. It's too damn bad.
And second, Beck's "I Have a Scheme" rally was constructed around a falsehood: the whole thing was organized and paid for by the Special Operations Warrior Foundation, which is a tax-exempt non-profit. As such, it is forbidden from engaging in political activism. This is why participants were instructed in advance not to bring signs: because signs would have loudly admitted that the Special Operations Warrior Foundation was breaking the laws from which it profits. Again, I have to ask: is this really your idea of "restoring honor?"
Anyway, the main reason I'm chiming in is that, in the comments, you say you weren't born when "civil rights" were passed. However, it appears one of your recent blog posts is about turning 50 this year...which would have you born in 1960. The Civil Rights act was passed in 1964. Which civil rights are you talking about?
It's very unbecoming to whine that the conservative viewpoint doesn't get recognized here, and then when it does get recognition, whine again about how mean everyone is being.
The crowd appeared to be well mannered and solemn. And Beck appeared not to sound like his television and radio shows.
But how can I maintain this sense of comity when I hear Beck's statements that precede and follow Saturday's event? Can a person like Beck suddenly become a "high credibility" media figure if he spends one day out of the year acting in a reasonable and reverent manner?
On Sunday, we got the Beck we're used to hearing. He accused the president of adhering to (an apparently dangerous) "liberation theology." His assertion scurrilous (Obama has said nothing of the sort) and seems to be based solely on Obama's proximity to Rev. Wright (as if theology was communicable - like a cold).
So, Deborah, you'd like us "liberals" to give your friend Beck the benefit of the doubt. Does the president get the same treatment?
It's really hard to be tolerant of a movement and a leader that are trying to cram their religion down my Atheist throat. It's okay to cram healthcare down my throat. I could probably use some, but "restoring" this Christian nation that never really existed, I can do without. That being said, I would still fight for Beck's right to say what he says. Would he fight for mine? Also kudos to Open Salon for making your post an Editor's Pick.
Also, I second Sevigny's comments on the maintenance of Dachau as a constant monument to Germany's genocidal crimes. Germany does "run around" and apologize for the Nazis. It's part of that whole never forget thing.
As for slavery, what nationality are you? I bet like most Americans of European descent, you can say that you're one quarter Irish, a quarter English, one fifth Welsh, etc. I know that I can spout my national heritages as if they were parts of some kind of genetic recipe. African Americans can't do this. For the most part, they don't know if they're ancestors came from what is now the Congo or Rwanda or Zimbabwe. That thing that so many of us who claim to have fore bearers who arrived on the Mayflower or were detained for a period on Angel Island take for granted, has forever been denied to a people who were among the earliest Americans. Think about that before you feel so put upon that this United States has the greatness to offer apologies for some of its national crimes (Korematsu anyone?).
Whether or not I would be considered a credit for that comment from my Conservative grandfather in the midwest, who knows? Being from MA, however, and my father being a liberal lawyer who used to be a philosophy professor, and my mother being insanely liberal--I think I turned out as expected :)
whew! that was some serious bragging for my parents! Thanks again for your comment..in a way it's sad that Deborah feels so attacked..I haven't had time (nor have many, I'm sure!) to read through all the comments here, but *I* certainly wasn't accusing her of hating Mormons..I'm not sure if that came from my comment or another's.
"As for slavery, what nationality are you? I bet like most Americans of European descent, you can say that you're one quarter Irish, a quarter English, one fifth Welsh, etc. I know that I can spout my national heritages as if they were parts of some kind of genetic recipe."
Yeah, you can until you get to that point where your ancestors were also slaves. It's just a matter of going far enough back.
Personally, I can never remember what my make-up supposedly is, I guess because I don't find it that meaningful.
But thanks for posting this, knowing full well I expect, that many here would take issue.
An excellent piece of work, too, which is not to be left unsaid from astonishment.
I was energized and inspired to make my first post on the day they announced the Palin Vice-Presidency. I came to Open Salon because there is an open and unapologetic liberal majority here. I stay at Open Salon because of the high quality of people I meet and the discourse throughout the site.
I have absolutely nothing nice to say about your post, and in the spirit of bipartisanship I will not say a word about how misguided I think you,a nd all Glenn Beck sheeple, to be. This time.
Just remember, this site is what it is, and political discussions will ensue, and not all of Robert's Rules are going to apply to the resultant mash-ups :-)
Open enough to allow liars to even be awarded EPs on reports on liars extraordinaire like beck.
This sentence really tickles me:
". . . . America is always running around apologizing for something."
ROTFLMAO
Yeah, we are one heck of a bunch of S.O.Bs.
"There must be some way out of here",
said the joker to the thief.
"Let us not seek to satisfy our thirst for freedom by drinking from the cup of bitterness and hatred."
-MLK
I, as a kid, marched with Dr. King ... didn't see you there.
He has called Obama a racist who hates white people. He has helped support the false claims that Obama is a Muslim, that he was not born in America, that he will recruit a private army and round up innocent citizens into FEMA concentration camps, create "death panels" to carelessly discard the lives of the elderly, that Obama is part of some secret conspiracy to destroy American values and desecrate the Constitution, he has compared him to Hitler, called him a Nazi, a communist, a socialist, among other things. He implies that the genesis of all our troubles, economic or otherwise, are the fault of Obama who has only been in office 1 year and 7 months after inheriting the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.
Yes, all of this nonsense appeared to be absent during his restoring hope rally. Glenn Beck suddenly pulled a veneer of civility and decency over himself and smiled angelically. But implicit in his call to restore honor is the accusation that honor has been somehow taken from us.
It would restore a bit of honor to America if Glenn Beck would stop being such a blatant fabricator enriching himself with ugly fear mongering, and misinforming millions of decent Americans who evidently are unable to take the time to compare what Glenn claims to be true with actual reality. Why doesn't he simply engage in fact based argument against policies he disagrees with, and propose feasible and constructive alternatives consistent with his own political philosophy, as do honorable adults in a free democratic society? Because that wouldn't be nearly as profitable as providing lurid innuendo and hyperbole to feed the anxieties and gratify the prejudices of his viewers.
People who dislike Glenn Beck and the way he sabotages the possibility of honest dialog do so on a well founded basis.
President Obama is a constitutional scholar who reveres and respects and has deep understanding of the Constitution. He is an energetic, intelligent, thoughtful, compassionate, politically moderate man who from day one had to deal with 2 messy wars and a horrific economic crisis. The overall budgetary impact of the stimulus is a temporary blip in our national debt compared to the year in and year out costs of the Bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Medicare prescription medicine expansion, all of which comprise the bulk of our current deficit and have not been paid for by compensating spending cuts or tax increases.
You can disagree with our President's policies, but to smear an elected leader's character and motives with fantastic conspiracy theories bereft of any credible basis in fact is wholly dishonorable.
To pretend that we are suddenly experiencing disastrous new threats to America that weren't already present 2 years ago is an obvious misrepresentation of the facts, and is either based on dishonesty or ignorance.