Through a glass darkly...

Closely following the signs of the times


Virginia, United States
December 30
Marine, Christian, Libertarian and forty-something, suburban dad trying to make sense of the world around him.


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JULY 28, 2010 3:29PM

Arizonans Left To Fend For Themselves

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Effectively immediately, due to a federal judge striking down many parts of the Arizona Immigration Law, it is no longer illegal to be illegal in Arizona.

Even though American Citizens have to "show their papers" everyday in order to renew a driver's license, open a bank account, get a loan, etc this is no longer going to be the case in Arizona.

This judge has put the people in Arizona in a very tough spot. Since the federal government has ignored its reponsibility to protect the border from illegal immigrants crossing into Arizona, the people of Arizona will need to do it themselves.

Unfortunately, the Obama administration chose the low road on this issue (as usual) and instead decided to play politics with a very serious situation. Obama knows that he is in big trouble for the 2012 election and he knows that he has lost considerable support from his base. Providing amnesty to illigal immigrants from Mexico would allow him to seize upon that support and help him get re-elected.

Make no mistake, amnesty is the ultimate goal here. That is plain. 12 million illigal immigrants can become 12 million Democrat voters overnight and that is why amnesty is the main goal.

Once again the president has put politics before the country and by doing so has opened Pandora's Box. My sense is that since this was a VERY popular law in Arizona (polls show that 70% of Arizonans are in favor of it),  then this will not be viewed well by them. (

Arizonans will now view the federal government as their enemy and not their protector and rightly so. You say you want to discourage "extremists" from gaining momentum in the United States? This is NOT the way to do it.

My fear is that this will lead to bloodshed on a massive scale as people in Arizona arm themselves to protect their homes, lands and persons from the threat that this illiegal immigration poses.

This judge, and by extension the Obama administration has forced the people of Arizona to either allow themselves to be inundated with illegal, dangerous individuals that pose a threat to them and their families or to take matters into their own hands. I fear it will be the latter.

This is not over yet. This might well be the "spark" that leads to a larger uprising here in the United States. People are tired of this tyranny and they will fight back.

The first time a crime takes place and the perpetrator is found to be here illigally there just might be a lynch mob on the move. This is going to get very ugly very soon.

While America (Rome) is continuing to burn, Obama continues to fiddle.....or golf.

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"Even though American Citizens have to "show their papers" everyday in order to renew a driver's license, open a bank account, get a loan, etc this is no longer going to be the case in Arizona."

Do you understand the difference between having to show ID in order to these things, and having to "carry papers" around with you at all times?

Obviously, you don't. So you have no understanding of how having to "carry papers" reeks of fascism.

We should deal with illegal immigration, but this isn't the way to do it.
Carrying ID whenever one goes out -like a driver's license- is not considered to be fascist state harassment or an onerous requirement. It's a fact of life, something which I and everyone I know does without thinking anything of it.
Saying that we're forced to carry our 'papers' doesn't change that or somehow make it scary and oppressive.
Why should people who are in the country illegally be exempt?
I can't believe people are so dead set against Arizona trying to protect its self. What is the state supposed to do, just sit back while drug cartels and violence erupts? . . . oh wait, it already has!

Here is what I don't get, the feds get pissy when states try to protect their boarders, but yet they won't give them any extra funding or help (ie boarder agents)

If I didn't know any better, I'd say the feds are turning a blind eye to it to keep cheap labor alive AND keep a certain block of voters happy.

This is bullshit!
Ian, I don't carry a driver's license whenever I go out. It's not a requirement for living in the U.S.

And where did I say that illegal immigrants should be exempt? (Although I'm not sure what you're referring to - exempt from what?)
Might be time to take a hard look, a proper gander, at your intel sources. As a surfer I often transit around this great country's coastal cities, towns and isolated beaches, carrying no identification whatsoever into the salty sea. I can not be imprisoned for this- yet ... there's an old Hawaiian joke, "What do you call a Polynesian de-planing in California?- A Mexican!"

A large part ot America's history is all about taking away rights and property from blacks, hispanics and asians. So, it shouldn't surprise anyone they are up in arms at this latest, and last by the way, attempt ... what do you, living in the former Land of Easter Flowers yourself, what do you think of kicking the descendants of Aztecs out of a US State with an Aztec name?

These folks were in full swing in 1521- Centuries before the Declaration. To expect that be forgotten is just unrealistic, and will never bring resolution.

Demographic change has brought progress and prosperity to every great civilization in history ... ours is no different.
When I drive I have my license. When I don't, but am riding my bike, hiking, using public transportation, or are otherwise out in public I also carry it. It may not be a requirement- but its common sense- in case of an accident or emergency. And I damn sure need it if I want to get on an airplane.

Many of the protesters have made the charge that they're being forced to carry their papers (ID) and that its a racist, fascist requirement.) I don't see it that way.
I don't see it either ... and aside from having to have a drivers' license with you when operating a motor vehicle, and showing ID when doing most transactions ... legal aliens must have their green card with them at all times.
Jeanette-When I recently renewed my driver's license in Florida I had to show proof of citizenship. this whole "show me your papers" crap is just the way those in agreement with amnesty get around the fact that this law does nothing different than the federal law does. That is why this will be appealed and end up in the Supreme Court. In the meantime, Obama will enact Amnesty to shore up his voting base. Bet me it won't happen.

Here is a challenge for you and everyone else who thinks this law is unreasonable. Go visit Mexico or another foreign country and don't bring any form of identification with you. When asked to produce it tell them you don't have any papers. Let me know what happens.
Yep, the double standard is in full swing here. Try visiting Mexico and not have any I.D. on you. Of course we all have to carry some I.D. at all times, like our drivers license. The only people who don't carry I.D. you can see on Cops: people breaking the law and illegal immigrants. If I am driving and don't have my drivers license with me and no I.D. the least is I'll get a ticket, the worst is they'll throw me in jail till I can prove who I am after caught speeding, etc.

Funny how we are lectured by every other country to absorb illegal immigrants into our land when no other country does that. Mexico actually will shoot to kill anybody coming over their southern border illegally. Don't hear much crying about that though.
I find it really funny that you and Deborah say that, hey, we should do this because countries like Mexico do it. (Similar to Deborah's argument that we shouldn't have an Islamic center anywhere near "ground zero" because they don't allow Christian churches in Saudi Arabia.) Wow, so you guys want us to be like Mexico and Saudi Arabia?

That's kind of sick.
Nope. I cannot remember a time EVER in my life, living in the US, that I or anyone I have ever met had to show my license because of A LAW that specified someone could do that, based solely on the way that I looked or my accent or the color of my skin or because of the possibilities of the origins of my ancestors. (I realize that it happens all the time without the formal law, if you are a person of color. But referencing the law itself, no.)

That's the actual problem with this very bad and unconstitutional law, the abuses that it would allow. You are all really smart people. You know that's the problem. Don't play dumb.

Also, I don't get the vote point. Illegal immigrants can't vote. So, er .. that makes no sense.
Did you suddenly forget the bi-partisan support for legislation to provide a path to citizenship supported by Bush, McCain, Graham and many other Republicans?

Suddenly this is Obama's idea?
Jeanette-Come on now. Don;t set up the straw-man argument of "Do we want to be like them?" No, of course not. However, the fact remains that those countries don't deal with illegal immigration on at the level that we do. How many people are clamoring to get into Mexico or Saudi Arabia? What we are saying is we are being asked to do something that will decimate our society and other countries (like Mexico) know full well what the end result will be. Look into how much money goes back to Mexico every year from it's citizens living illegally in the US. Instead of fixing their problems and growing their economy they rely on ours to prop them up. In the meantime much of that money could be spent right here in the US and put back into our economy. WE are being slowly looted or our wealth and soon we will be no better off than Mexico. Is that what you want? Do you really want to be a third world power? I don't. As long as they come her legally I have no issues with anyone of any color being here. That is what makes America great. However, most of these people have no desire to become Americans. They just want to make money and go back to Mexico to live a better life.
sg2292-"Did you suddenly forget the bi-partisan support for legislation to provide a path to citizenship supported by Bush, McCain, Graham and many other Republicans?" You bring up a good point. I have never supported the path to citizenship crowd nor will I. There already is a path to citizenship and thousands of LEGAL immigrants take every year. Obama and the Democrats are pushing this because they know this means more votes for them. True they can't vote right now but if they are granted citizenship by the Obama administration who do you think they will vote for next time around? Get the picture?
odetteroulette-You answer tells me that instead of reading the bill for your self you have simply chosen the easy way out and regurgitated the liberal main stream media talking points. The law says that an officer must reasonable suspicion to act upon before he can question someone about their citizenship. Like say for instance they pull over a van full of people who don't speak English in a know trafficking area. THAT would be reasonable suspicion that maybe they might be illegal. They can't just decide to pull people over because they are Hispanic.

As far as the voting this is concerned of course they can't vote now. However, amnesty changes that. If you were granted amnesty to become a US Citizen by Obama and the Dems who would you vote for in the next election? Get it?
Nope. I read the bill. My interpretation, the one that federal court is taking, incidentally, so it's not just me, is just not your interpretation. And no amount of interesting interpretative maneuvering on your part can make the bill constitutional. Frankly, as an American citizen, unless I am in a car driving, it is my right NOT to carry identification and not have to worry about being asked for it, unless I am breaking the law. This law would result in American citizens being stopped and indefinitely detained for being or looking like they are Latino. No. I won't support that. It's completely utterly wrong and totally utterly unconstitutional. If you are afraid of people, hide in your house. Don't try to hamstring the rest of us into a totalitarian state to calm your own irrational fears.

I support the Constitution and the ideas that helped create it, and the importance of a free citizenry. I will not allow that to be taken away from me by people who are afraid.
Odette-Since you are into doing research (which I applaud) then you might want to take a look at Title 8, Section 134. That is the Federal Law that is on the books NOW. It basically states that aliens inside the United States MUST carry documentation that ID's them as so on their person at all times AND must they must also produce that documentation when asked for it. Again...this is already the law.
The picture I get is that you don't understand.

Do you have any understanding of the immigration policies proposed by G. W. Bush or John McCain over the years? McCain has changed his public position since the 2008 campaign in order to be more appealing (flip flopper) to the Republican base, but prior to that time he supported a "path to citizenship" (not the LEGAL path you refer to) for undocumented immigrants.

When it comes to immigration Obama is Bush with a tan. Funny thing is you didn't refer to G.W. Bush as some kind of radical when he proposed the same policy.
sg2292-Yeah I get it Bush and McCain were also for a path to citizenship. I opposed it by them then and I oppose it by Obama now. I don't care what party brings it up. It's wrong. America is like the Willy Wonka need a Golden Ticket to get in..otherwise we turn you over to the Oompaloompas!!!
Just one more thing. Were Bush and McCain only in favor of "a path to citizenship" because of all those Latino voters? Do you really believe all those Latino voters would now be Republicans if the McCain-Kennedy bill passed?
sg2292-I agree with you here. The reason that I did NOT support amnesty then is the same reason that I don't support it now. It is just wrong to sell American Citizenship in return for votes.