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DJohn

DJohn
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Marine, Christian, Libertarian and forty-something, suburban dad trying to make sense of the world around him.

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Salon.com
SEPTEMBER 8, 2010 7:50PM

Islam's Big Opportunity

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The followers of Islam proclaim that it is a "religion of tolerance and of peace." There is an event that will take place soon that will give them the opportunity to show the world that this is a true statement but will they?

By now you've most likely heard of the scheduled "Koran Burning" that is scheduled to take place at the Dove World Outreach Center in Gainesville, FL this weekend to mark the 9th anniversary of the September 11th attacks against America. The Reverend Terry Jones has claimed that despite the outcry from the international community and the local populace the event WILL go forward.

Rev Jones and his associate pastors have begun to carry side-arm's to protect themselves and they claim they have received hundreds of death threats. General Petraeus has weighed in and stated that this is likely to undermine the war effort and incite violence against our men and women in uniform overseas. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't they already in danger of violence? They are fighting a war. It doesn't get more violent than that. However, I do understand what the good General is trying to say here.

Our Secretary of State, Hilary Clinton has called this "disgraceful" , the Vatican has weighed in as well calling this "outrageous", the NYPD has weighed in calling this "dangerous" and even our Attorney General, Eric Holder has weighed in calling this "idiotic."

So fine it's not going to be a popular event with the politically correct crowd but if you think about it that's the reason they are doing it in the first place. However, none of this is the point here. I think the larger point of this whole thing is the expected response from Muslims worldwide.

The Christians have been persecuted both in ancient times and currently. The Jews, as everyone knows, have been persecuted enough to last 10 lifetimes. The Muslims however don't have that same history. In fact, often times if Christians and Jews were persecuted it was the Muslims that were doing the persecuting.

I know there will be some that will get all crazy and start throwing around terms like "The Crusades"  but make sure you truly understand the reason behind this war before you start spouting off. You might be surprised by what you find out when you research it.

In any event the fact remains that this Saturday unless there is some kind of unforeseen action against this church they are going to go through with this and burn those Islamic holy books. My question is what will the response from Islam be?

Everyone fears the backlash, the reprisals, the violence that will ensue. If Islam is truly a "tolerant" religion and one "of peace" then why would all of that be necessary?

Why not do what the Christians do and turn the other cheek? Why is it necessary to fear this religion if it truly is one of "tolerance and peace?"

Do I think that this Koran burning is a good idea? Not necessarily but they have the right to do it. As a veteran I cringe anytime I see some idiot burning the American Flag but I also remember that he has the right to do it.

If Islam wants to bring it's people out of the dark ages and wants to truly become an accepted world religion than it needs to start acting like a mature religion which can handle and indeed invite criticism of its beliefs. Do it's followers think that Islam can hold up to outside criticism or do they fear that it will be exposed as some sort of cult? Do they fear bringing into the light what has been hidden within the mosque?

The actions of the followers of a religion will tell you a great deal if they truly believe that their belief is divinely inspired. In other words if someone was to get a hold of my Bible and burn it, as much as it would upset me, it can be replaced.  Burning my Bible doesn't do a thing to make me question my faith as a Christian.

If Muslims really believe that Allah is god then why do they fear other religions? Why do they feel the need to support their god with violence if he truly is god?

Maybe, just maybe, the reason that Islam will not and cannot respond to this action with protests, debate and criticism but resort to more violence is because the truth is that Islam itself IS a violent religion.

Mohammad first took his new-found teachings to the Jews and the Christians and when they rejected him he set out to conquer them and the violence spread from that day forward.

Throughout its history Islam has sought to conquer the world and indeed that remains a main tenant of their faith today. The history of Islam from the beginning to present day is one of violence and blood and there is no way to sugarcoat that. It is what it is.

However, Islam has an opportunity here. The world is watching. What will be the response? Tolerance or violence?


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99% of the world of Islam will ignore this. The news media will pick up on the other 1%.
If this guy had been ignored in the first place nobody would even know about it.

I'm not a member of any religion but Muslims are not known for their tolerance of things like this so I wouldn't expect that to change.

If there is blood on Terry Jones' hands it must be shared with those at CNN, MSNBC, and FOX... among others.
Christian and Jewish groups are intolerant of "Koran Burning."
Mainstream Muslims are also intolerant of it.

You're implying that those who take offense should show tolerance. By that, you include a massive majority from all 3 major religions.

You also imply that all Muslims are radicals, and condemn all for not showing the tolerance that a whopping majority of all religions groups also do not display.

In essence, you're claiming that unless the radical Islamists show tolerance, it means all Muslims are radical and intolerant, as are, by proper extension, those large groups of Christians and Jews that oppose "Koran Burning."

To sum it up, you don't make a lick of freakin' sense, and may well have topped yourself for most logically oblivious blog post of all time.

Congratulations!
Paul-Actually...forget it. It won't make a difference. If you truly believe that the vast majority of Muslims in the world are tolerant then there isn't much more to say.
Christians had their big opportunity to show tolerance over the proposed "mosque" near Ground Zero. We blew it big time. Are you going to be as charitable with the Muslim reaction to the Koran burning as you were with the Christian reaction to Park 51?

I've had enough of the media bashing. This is a legitimate story and deserves to be covered. If it makes Americans look intolerant and backward, well it's because we are, as we proved over the Park 51 outrage.
"If you truly believe that the vast majority of Muslims in the world are tolerant then there isn't much more to say."

And you know what the vast majority of Muslims in the world are like because...?

I didn't realize you were an Islamic scholar. Oh wait, you're not. But you are certainly posing as one here.
Jeanette-Have you read the Koran? I didn't think so. Read it first and then we'll talk. You might also want to do some research on this "religion of peace" before you comment on it. I have and so I do. Do I know what the vast majority of Muslims thinks worldwide? No. But then again you can;t get close enough to ask without losing a body part anyway.
Robert-"Christians had their big opportunity to show tolerance over the proposed "mosque" near Ground Zero. We blew it big time." Are you feeling guilty about something? I'm not. I could care less if they build a mosque on ground zero. I don't live in NYC.
Let's say a Muslim, or 100,000 Muslims do drastic things. Is this book burning by a Christian an indictment of Christianity? Is Christianity beyond redemption for the actions of a Christian President(s) after 9/11? Does Christianity not claim to be about peace, and Christians made war?
Dude, it's a long, long history. You're right, the Crusades are included, but there is much more. Christians in the name of religion have committed countless atrocities against other religions, and the non religious. You know who put Socrates to death? The Church. Christianity has also committed atrocities against other Christians. Look some up. There are many. And in addition to all of that, consider, just for shits and giggles, all of the atrocities committed by Christians against others that was not in the name of religion. All of these conditions mirror the logic of your indictment against Islam, and people of Islamic countries. Your conflation is somewhat racist and ignorant. To relieve yourself of that, apply all of these conditions to Christianity officially and unofficially. You will learn quite a lot making yourself aware of these historical facts. Guilt by association is flawed logic, DJohn. The U.S. Constitution teaches that. Look that up too.
Bill-I never said that Christians were not involved with violence historically. However, it should be made clear that much of the violence was perpetrated by the Catholic church under the Popes. I turned away from Roman Catholicism for that very reason. However, putting things in perspective I think we can agree that since Christianity and Islam have been around for a very long time they should at some point reach a modicum of civility. Christianity has arrived there and has been there for quite some time. Islam has yet to make that leap for the most part.
I wont take your response apart piece by piece. It suffices to say that it is almost entirely false. The over arching point is the following. Muslims are no more responsible for the atrocious acts of certain select Muslims, than all Christians are for certain select Christians. Try to understand DJohn, you are doing this common indictment which says things like 9/11 is an act of Islam. The fact is, it is not. The people who did it were Muslim, but they were not representative of Islam except in the mind of the bigot who chooses to make them so. Just like an atrocity by some Christian is not representative of Christianity. It is the guilt by association principle that you are applying, and that I assail as false. That is your own point, and you have missed it in the correction given to you. Even if it were true that most of the atrocities were committed by Popes, (which it is not), it would still not apply to the principle which you are putting forward in your piece. My question to you was and is, is or has Christianity availed itself of some opportunity of redemption after any of the many atrocities committed by individual Christians? The way your question was posed does not hold Christianity or Christians to the same standard. Get it? Do you see how your jaundiced, bigoted eye sees now?
Bill-The simple truth of the matter is the if Christians behaved in this manner they would be lambasted and rightly so. Where is the outrage from the Muslim world? Sure there have been a few that have spoken out but the vast majority remain silent and in doing so they have become accomplices to these horrific acts. Until the Muslim community take responsibility for those in it's ranks that are destroying their religion they will be considered a part of the problem. People are getting tired of the "silent protest" that they are engaged in. If they really want to be taken seriously then they need to stand up and do something about it.
DJohn, listen to the things that you say and think about them.

First you say that the "Muslim community", needs to take responsibility. Think about that. There are over 1 BILLION Muslims in the world. They are as diverse as any group on the planet. This is not "a community." That is just for starters.

Second, "take responsibility." Who exactly should "take responsibility" and how? The 19 people who hijacked planes on 9/11 are dead. How would they take responsibility? Who would take responsibility for them? When someone kills someone here, does someone pay the penalty for them if the accused is dead? No. It is a silly statement.

Third, as you have stated, many Muslims have spoken out against such acts. Many Muslims speak out against much of what happens in Islam all along the spectrum. Salman Rushdie has spoken out against certain practices and beliefs, and has paid a price for it. Your statement presumes that all Muslims are in agreement, while simultaneously stating that some disagree. You statement contradicts itself and logic.

Fourth, there is such a thing as Sharia law. That is the Islamic code of law which fundamentalists take from the Koran. Many oppose Sharia law. I presume you do. I certainly do. It has extreme penalties for which Islam is frequently derided. But the point of number 4 is, Muslims do take other Muslims to task for acts according to their law. Sharia law as written forbids such acts as you are saying are not accounted for. That statement is just pure ignorance of the facts as they are.

Guilt by association. No matter how you attempt to apply it, and no matter how you attempt to get around admitting that you are trying to apply it, you continually bump into it. Muslims in general are no more "responsible" for acts committed by others than you are for my speeding tickets.

You said earlier that you left Catholicism because of acts committed by Popes. So presumably you became some other sort of Christian. Leaving Catholicism is not holding CHRISTIANITY accountable. All it does is have you exit Catholicism. You are still Christian, and Christianity is not changed. Likewise, within Islam, there are many different types of Muslims. You seem to think ALL are accountable for the actions of a few. That would make your "leaving Catholicism" statement completely irrelevant. Do you burn Bibles? I bet you dont.
Bill-It's really this simple. Who in Muslim world can you name (BY NAME) that has stood up and condemned these terrorists? Now, how many people on the street would know this person (persons)? I would venture to say that you would be hard pressed to find ANYONE who could name a single Muslim leader who has publicly spoken out against these people. That is the problem. If the "mainstream" or "moderate" Muslims ever hope to get any modicum of respect from other religions they need to be a bit more vocal. Until then they will be viewed as barbarians. A sin of omission can be just as a deadly as a sin of commission.
I find it no end to the hypocrisy displayed by so many Christians who demand "good" Muslims denounce, at every opportunity, the "bad" Muslims out there, otherwise, they're not sincere and good and American.

Christians, where's YOUR denunciation of every Christian kook out there who calls for violence and evil against others. There's so many instances of that recently, there's simply no excuse for us demanding behavior from Muslims but failing to live up to that standard ourselves.