Beautifully expressed...xox

Indeed. People don't have to be friends with each other, but they ought to treat each other with basic human dignity and a measure of consideration.

Yay!

Excellent.

“Do not be angry with me if I tell you the truth” ~ Socrates

Yep.

Lezlie

Picture me going "I'm not worthy", "I'm not worthy"!
Thanks for putting this up, it says so much in so little a space!

That's a good one. Of course my favorite philosopher is Douglas Adams.

"This planet has—or rather had—a problem, which was this: most of the people on it were unhappy for pretty much of the time. Many solutions were suggested for this problem, but most of these were largely concerned with the movements of small green pieces of paper, which is odd because on the whole it wasn't the small green pieces of paper that were unhappy. "

I had never heard that quote but is is so true.

Beautiful, thank you.

Great quote, I think it was Plato, to be honest. But the truth isn't something I'm terribly confident in. Not as much as your kindness anyway. Thank you for that quote, David.

Wonderful! A few words that speak volumes. But I can't help but remember what happened to poor old Socrates....

Thank-you for that stability in a topsy turvy world..lovely!

yes. r

Perfect. Respect should be first in our efforts to express our opinions and to understand one another's. It can be done! :)

Kate - flapdoodle = foolish talk, nonsense

Thanks you for posting this...anyone ever tell you you look just like Socrates??

Perfect. Thank you.

Just Thinking - He had a broader nose. That's how you can tell us apart.

Sorry, I tried to read the whole post but it was just too long. ;-)

amen...thanks David! xo

:)

True dat. Hopefully, this quote will be understood by all and sound Greek to them.

Succinctly spoken!

Isn't flapdoodle a breakfast cereal? Suddenly I'm hungry from my own hard battle :-)

Love coming back at you.

Bonnie... a Zen parable I like...

Two monks were traveling together, an older monk and a younger monk. They noticed a young woman at the edge of a stream, afraid to cross. The older monk picked her up, carried her across the stream and put her down safely on the other side.

The younger monk was astonished, but he didn't say anything until their journey was over. "Why did you carry that woman across the stream? Monks aren't supposed to touch any member of the opposite sex." said the younger monk.

The older monk replied "I left her at the edge of the river, are you still carrying her?"

sounds so zen

Flapdoodle is great!

Socrates was the dude, but look what he had to put up with. I'm sure he had many angry moments.

Typo! left out "not". Meant to write "...and not sound Greek to them."

Nice reminder.

Rated.

is it just me or do you bare an uncanny resemblance to socrates?

but i agree...we're all in deep shit...sooner or later!

OMG!!

It is not just you, bethybug. Uncanny to the max.

Whether or not the quote is actually from Socrates, it's a gem. Thank you.

R

I now believe in reincarnation.

I am bumping this because the resemblance of David Kinne to Socrates is something to behold!

David, I love the Zen parable ! And regardless of who said the quote you shared, the philosophy behind it what really matters. Thank you sincerely.
Rated.

Fernsy, Matt, Bethybug, all... I'll take what you say as a compliment. It's not the first time I've heard it. But why do people keep offering me cups of hemlock?

Very interesting, Cindy. However a technical breakthrough announced this summer reported the recovery of an ancient Greek text heretofore considered unintelligible. It was a series of epigrams, one of which was the one I quoted. I posted it on another site at that time. I'll have to dig for the reference, but it appears that while Rev. John Watson may have penned those words, he was not the first. Sorry if that disappoints you.

Oh, I don't know Bonnie, I thought the parable fit very well ;).

Rated for leaving things of no benefit - personal or public - behind.

i've gone right off socrates, he made a living from corrupting the youth.

to be fair, we don't know what he said, only what two of those corrupted youth reported.

but he/they got this one right.

Oh, gosh, Cindy. Do you think I could? That would be soooo exciting.

Al... and your problem with that is? I've been corrupting youth ever since I was one.

David, that's a pretty bitchin' bust you've got of yourself there! a very good likeness.

Mea culp, mea culpa maxima... I grabbed the first internet quote I found attributing this to Socrates, and being the slacker that I am, I trod over the thought that "Hey, wasn't that Plato?" But I don't look at all like like Plato, so I guess I really wanted it to be Socrates, and thus was deceived.

Anyhoosits, here's the reference to the "Plato Code" being cracked that I was thinking of...

http://www.manchester.ac.uk/aboutus/news/display/?id=5894

Pretty cool article.

Cindy, what do you think about calling it the MeMeMe Meme?

I've always been ahead of my time, Cindy.

looks like my injued wrist was perfect timing. i'm clueless for good reason tis time. this means my luck has changed. yay!

isn't a flapdoodle an elderly poodle? (all typos caused by extreme stupidity.) i just wanted to say hi.

Socrates, Plato, T.H.Thompson, John Watson...who cares? It is the message. Thanks for this. R-

David - yes. You and Socrates look like twins separated at birth. And who said what??? Who cares? If I read a quote or passage that speaks to me an snap it up and hold it close. I've often considered that sometimes knowing the author prevents us from grasping the message fully. We'll read something and say, "Oh, that is so GREAT!" then notice it's written by someone we don't like and retract with a, "Well, it's not THAT good."

@Cindy - Perhaps you know somebody with the crazypants "group" who might like to take up this topic?

Cindy - I'm actually kind of a hound about correct attribution of quotations. And I love that you brought my attention to the QI site, where I will undoubtedly while away many hours of wordgeek delight.

One case in point that is a cause of my own, I've seen the popular quote "Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is the definition of insanity" attributed to Mark Twain, Einstein, and Anonymous, among others, but I found it in one of Rita Mae Brown's novels, and that's pretty compelling evidence to me that the other attributions are questionable, since it is her best known quote, and it will no doubt appear in her obituary.

In any case, what QI did here was track back the history of references to Rev John Watson using the phrase in his writing, pretty well proving that he did USE the phrase, but their conclusion that he was the LIKELY source did not take into account more recent research into ancient Greek texts, so I'm left unconvinced.

In other words, I wouldn't make a poster boy out of Rev. Watson, when talking about attribution of quotes to the correct authors. But let's not turn our disagreement into another flapdoodle, ok?

i care Cindy. not because i know Socrates personally or anything, but because you are correct. it does matter.

Yes, Cindy, to get back on topic... it is the ad hominems that need to cease here.

Attack the idea if you will, attack the rhetoric and exposition if you like, but do not attack the person. Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle. Whoever said it first.

"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle."
. . . and that was the message of this post, as many of us understood, David. Thank you again.

@Cindy - Snide? Me?? Perish the thought, dear teacher. I was merely suggesting a venue where this issue could be taken up by serious scholars without distracting you from your professional obligations.

As to your suggestion that my suggestion might have been disingenuous, I must say I find your disclaiming any knowledge whatsoever of my reference curious in light of your participation in a blogpost entitled "An Open Letter on the Latest OS Flapdoodle."

I, of course, cannot rule out sheer coincidence, and probably should not, as surely a scholar of your diligence and sophistication likely is not that obtuse.

Matt, Matt, Matt... (sound of palm slapping forehead)

Achh mit du!

Absolutely.

My sentiment exactly!

Cindy, I get your pain. That's exactly what I was addressing with a single line of text and a picture. Isn't it ironic that the subject of my simple little post got played out in the comments section?

In PM I was reminded of an unkindness I had visited on someone else. I'm not perfect, but I am committed to eliminating the unkindness in my own life. "On the Court" demonstrations like this can help us all see how totally effortless it can be to be unkind to someone else. It takes a little more work to take a different path than the default.

Namaste, David

Glad I came back for the update and the extended discussion, David. It was entertaining to say the least.

Now that the discussion has quieted down and everyone has moved on, I would just like to read my further comments into the record.

My own default position is civility rather than unkindness. If I cannot be kind, I fall back on civility. Simple reason for this. In the place of my youth, after either an unkind or uncivil remark to either a man or a woman, one could find himself sliding backward on one's ass across the floor of the bar spitting out teeth.

That is not to say that unkind or uncivil remarks were never made, but it did take a certain amount of personal integrity and courage to offer them. It was not done lightly.

Discourse via the internet even after some years remains an altogether strange and different deal for me, but old habits acquired in one's youth endure.

Believing in open and honest discussion, I'm posting this opinion on the matter from an offline discussion with a friend:

"Don't like me? Fuck off. Problem solved."

:) SockraTease

For all you Plato lovers, here's a piece from the NYTimes:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/29/platos-pop-culture-problem-and-ours/?hp

SockraTease

Awwwk...cough...cough...gulp...

Brain fart, Cindy. Big, ghastly inexcusable cerebral emission of putrid idiocy. My deepest apologies to you for the unjustified suspicion that led me to hurt you. You were absolutely right. I was being snide and snarky. But you have had the grace to forgive me, which blunts my self-inflicted trauma and has helped teach me a lesson, among which is to never judge a person by her frightening avatar.

My apologies, too, to David for intruding on the peaceable sanctuary he meant to provide. I am abashed.

I love "The Stone" in The Times, David.

I thought this was an interesting piece, Brassawe, comparing Plato's disdain for Greek poetry as popular entertainment because of its reliance on sex and violence, with current issues over video games.

What i get from reading the classics is that people never really change. We're still dealing with the same old themes.

SockraTease

:-)
xo

This whole thread is very...Platonic? I don't know, but I have enjoyed it, especially your careful and gracious monitoring of the discussion.

AIM - Thanks.

I think this has been fun, and in line with what I think of when I hear the word Salon. Civil discourse amongst a bunch of intelligent folks. And a coupla eejits. :0

SockraTease

Awesome! Very wise indeed!

Everytime I read it gets better...
Rated and really liked it