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Women and Comedy

DktrShe

DktrShe
Location
Boston, Massachusetts,
Bio
Witty academic, writer, performer, proud Feminist (and she can cook)

Editor’s Pick
JANUARY 5, 2010 6:12PM

D-List, F-Bombs: Kathy Griffin and Comedy's Doublestandards

Rate: 21 Flag

Anyone choosing to avoid the saccharine, waxy dimpled sweetness of Ryan Seacrest’s Vanilla Rockin New Years Bland Eve (this year with 30% more coverage of liquored up yahoos in those awful, Elton John knock-off 2010 glitter eyeglasses) might have taken a gamble on CNN’s broadcast featuring Anderson Stone Cold Hottie Cooper and that notorious A-list comedienne masquerading as a D-list loser, Kathy Griffin. If so, you also might have caught Griffin slipping Coops the F-bomb, well not so much slipping as un-casually dropping it in order to make a joke on the name of the Balloon Boy, Falcon Heene. (And if you have a thick, Boston accent, you’ve said his name in a way that isn’t meant as a joke at all).

Finger wagging media outlets were quick to wag their proverbial finger at Ms. Griffin for her f-bomb-paux and its tastelessness. After all, this was not Madam Griffin’s first offense. Last year during the same broadcast she fired back on a couple of hecklers, telling them to “get a job,” adding: “I don’t come down to where you work and knock the dick out of your mouth.” (I quip, I feel compelled to note, which as brilliant is it was and no doubt satisfying to say, is actually a line taken from a Bob Odenkirk, Mr. Show sketch). The finger wagging was joined by a robust dose of throat clearing and nervous chuckling over the “antics” of the “spitfire comedienne” who has proved herself too much for CNN to handle.  In fact, rumors circulated on the web today that CNN planned to ban the “spitfire” from appearing on CNN, the “most trusted and respected news source;” a news source known for generating 3-D holographic election maps that caused dogs to smash their heads into television screens and old people to spontaneously hit their First-Alert buttons over panic that “the Aliens were here!”

Frau Griffin’s curve of the tongue is not so interesting or even news worthy as its predictable backlash. Griffin’s a “spitfire,” who relies on outlandish “antics,” but comics like Chris Rock or Dennis Leary are “edgy,” “controversial” performers.  Is it that Griffin is too much for CNN to “handle,” (why does she need handling at all, is she a horse or a vial of plutonium?) or is that just code for another woman who refuses to compromise her performance approach by putting on her little white gloves and bonnet for network television? Reports of the incident, much like Robert Pattinson’s acting abilities, have been wildly exaggerated. Griffin didn’t unleash a profanity-laced tirade, she performed a play on words.  If she’s guilty of anything, it’s wasting a comedic moment to riff on the inanity of the Balloon Boy and his fame-sucking parents, by forcing a joke that wasn’t all that shocking or strong.

Tsk tsk Kathy, tut tut, and shame shame on you for towing the gender line. On national television to boot! Shame on who?

Shame on CNN for signing on for a comedienne known for playing as hard and as funny as the rest of the boys.  Shame on the network brass for mistaking Griffin for one of their fuzzier funny females like Ellen or Bonnie Hunt. Shame on the media for making an incident out of a woman just doing what she does best: joking.

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Excellent editorial. Thanks for this.
CNN, the “most trusted and respected news source;” Sad, how sometimes this can be a punchline... Christiane Amanpour, your my only hope! I loved when Kathy ribbed Anderson about his name... Anderson Hayes Cooper... "God you reek of money".
Isn't it funny how she never refers to Andersen as one of "her gays" even though he so obviously is?
Yup...oh well...so fucking sad...but your writing and observations are good.
I thought Kathy's shtick was to be an attention whore. Isn't that what the D-list is all about? People who use the f word gratuitously are not usually funny.

If the Pope dropped the F bomb, now that would be funny.

Why is this a feminist issue? Please edify me.
This isn't sexism so much as censorship. If Kathy Griffin had dropped an "f" bomb on HBO, no one would care because it's allowed there. But basic cable has the same language rules as network TV, hence the brouhaha. Bono and Guns n' Roses caused similar stirs when they dropped "f" bombs of their own during their Grammy acceptance speeches.

Lisa Lampenelli says fuck as much as any male comedian and there's no outrage over her antics. Again this is a matter of where she says it, not what she says.
Bravo! Kathy is one of my personal faves. She says what I am thinking... only she says it better than I can think it.
Love the post. rated.

@ oesheepdog: If the Pope dropped the F-bomb... it would be all over the net before he could follow up with a "Holy shit!"... people would be laughing their butts off. No disrespect to your comment intended. Just the reality of such a situation.

I do agree with Travis, this seems to be an issue on censorship. However, CNN and the public knows what kind of unpredictable personality she is. DKtrsh is right "Shame on CNN" for assuming they can control the uncontrollable... Kathy Griffin.
"...but comics like Chris Rock or Dennis Leary are “edgy,” “controversial” performers." - DktrShe

Therefore what? Unless I'm missing something, this comment seems to be a non sequitur. You seem to be suggesting that since Messrs. Leary and Rock are "controversial" then Ms. Griffin should be allowed to use profanity on CNN.
Great dialogue here, keep it coming. Can censorship also be a feminist issue? Many women gained visibility and the "right" to speak on stage by working as part of a husband and wife team. Censorship comes in many shapes and forms. Do we hold women to different standards of speech than men? Do we hold female comics to different standards of taste and style than our male comics?

In response to Jon's remark: I am also raising questions about how we talk about these respective performers. Would you refer to David Chapelle as a "spitfire?"
DktrShe,

In order to raise concerns about sexist censorship, you need to provide an example of a male comedien on CNN who uses profanity in live broadcasts and was not punished. Otherwise, you come as a knee-jerk feminist who cries sexism for anything. You actually hurt your cause by cheapening the word.


"Would you refer to David Chapelle as a "spitfire?"" - DktrShe

No. I would also not call him ma'am. Yes, spitfire is usually a word reserved to describe certain types of women - so what? The word connotes a mostly positive view of a woman who is not afraid to speak her mind. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make by pointing out that she was called a "spitfire".
Yes, excellent, concise, spot-on. Brava!

And I love Kathy Griffin. She doesn't always "make" me laugh, but neither does O'Leary, whom I also love; neither does Rock, etc. etc.

She's out there putting it to it. WORKING. Comedy is a craft as well as an art. It must be worked. And I respect that and I respect her.
" I agree, she says a few "blue" things, and people freak...a males comedienne does it and it no big deal." - southernstoryteller

Folks, there is a big difference between saying "blue" things live on CNN and saying them during a comedy show. If Chris Rock appeared on CNN and dropped the F-Bomb, I would fully expect him to be banned from CNN.
John,
I see your logic, but respectfully disagree. I am not making an argument for or against censorship or what you refer to as "sexism censorship," rather I am calling attention to they way male and female comics are perceived. I do question the use of a term like "spitfire" as innately positive. I personally think, in this case, it diminishes Griffin's integrity as a serious, hard working, comedienne. Instead, it casts her as a problem, a troublemaker, someone who requires handling.

I should also clarify that I have a deep respect and admiration for just as many male comics as female comics. I am not elevating one sex over the other in the industry or art. I feel that it's important for all women working or interested in the business to be aware of its complexities. Thanks!
Joe Scarborough, 11-10-08, referring to Obama cabinet:

"These are good, decent, steady men that don't go around flipping people off or yelling fuck you at the top of their lungs."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
11-27-09:

"Disgruntled Broncos coach Josh McDaniels surprised some viewers during the Giants/Broncos game last night after using the f-word on live television."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Mar 4, 2009 ... "Matt Vasgersian Drops F-Bomb I on the MLB Network."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
9-17-09:

"Ernie Anastos, a local New York news anchor stunned viewers Wednesday night by dropping an F-Bomb on live television."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These F-Bombs, as they are colloquially called, were all dropped during prime time or daytime televised events/interviews. They were all dropped by men. I have no knowledge of these men losing their jobs for same. Kathy Griffin dropped hers during a New Year's Eve celebration in Times Square, reflecting both her nature and personality And the drunken (not that she was drunken) bacchanal that NYE generally engenders, as it were.

It's the double-standard we've come to expect, and that makes it okay.

Right.
Gotta say I too missed the part where Leary and Rock dropped F-bombs on CNN and weren't taken to task for it. No question women are held to different standards than men in many realms of our society, but regarding 'criticism' or 'censorship' of their language choices in comedy -- that's not one of them. In addition to the aforementioned Lisa Lampinelli, I'd add Sarah Silverman to the list of freespeaking female comics whose foul language doesn't seem to hurt her career.
I think we often do not recognize marketing and advertising when we see it. Are we used to the ad pop-ups around here yet? Still see them or just move on to the comments?

So...if a comedian or comedienne known to constanly drop "F-bombs" e.g. Dennis Leary, Chris Rock, Wanda Sykes had been hired and not Griffin, what sort of credible outrage would CNN be able to show? But this way a huge discussion, wherein the "CNN bomb" will be dropped without any further expense or outlay will ensue.
All publicity is good publicity in their eyes.

The Adsense ad is right above the comments and below the post. See it?
The title of your post is "D-List, F-Bombs: Kathy Griffin and Comedy's Doublestandards".

Where is the "double standard"? Which male comedien was hired by CNN, dropped the f-bomb while broadcasting live and was allowed to keep his job?

"I do question the use of a term like "spitfire" as innately positive. I personally think, in this case, it diminishes Griffin's integrity as a serious, hard working, comedienne. Instead, it casts her as a problem, a troublemaker, someone who requires handling." - DktrShe

That is exactly the image she has built for herself. Yes, if you make a habit of using vulgar language on live television, you will get a reputation as hard to handle. It has nothing to do with "hard working". Griffin was fired from CNN for the same reason someone like shock-jock (is that term sexist?) Howard Stern would never be hired by CNN.
Didn't Andrew Dice Clay get banned from MTV for using cusswords? So I don't know if there really is a double standard. If anything, the media and public just need to take a less from George Carlin and lighten up about language. The only sin in profane four-letter words is that they are overused and a sign of lazy choices when it comes to speaking and writing. (In my f-in' humble opinion of course.)
Thanks for pointing this out. The more we call this out when we see it, maybe the more likely it is to change...
ConnieMack,

You posted examples of men uttering the f-word on live television. How many of those men worked for CNN? And, how many of those men had previously said, on live television, "“I don’t come down to where you work and knock the dick out of your mouth.” ?
I have never understood the big to do over saying, "fuck." I was taught that's its derivation is from medieval times, when newly weds needed permission to consecrate their marriage. The king's soldiers would stamp the door of the newlyweds house with "F.U.C.K" meaning fornicating under consent of the king. Doesn't have much impact when you think of it that way. How did an act that brings so much please get such a bad rap?

As for Kathy, she can curse up a storm as far as I care. I love her standup. She's a smart girl who knows how to get attention for herself.
R
I'm sure you didn't miss the posts on misogyny: sexism cannot exist without it! rated.
Nonsense. Sexism does not equal misogyny.
Kathy Griffin is a pig.
And yet CNN will indubitably hire her next year as well. For the ratings that go along with good and bad press.
"[I]s that just code for another woman who refuses to compromise her performance approach by putting on her little white gloves and bonnet for network television?"

No. It's code for don't say things like that on live, cable television.

I also disagree with your characterization of Leary and Rock. I don't think anyone has ever called Leary or Rock edgy because of cussing. Leary was edgy because of his clever, smoke and caffeine fueled rants. Rock was edgy because of his ability to tackle race issues in a new way. The last people to be edgy because of cursing were Carlin in the 70s and Lenny Bruce.
Yeah, not buying the double standard thing either. CNN is clearly having an identity crisis - unsure of whether to be entertainment or serious journalism. Interestingly enough, Anderson Cooper seems to be having the same crisis. Just google some of his appearances on Regis and Kelly if you don't believe me.

I love Kathy Griffin because she has her laser beams set on hypocrisy and exposes it fearlessly - very refreshing in a world of over-handled celebrities who cowtow to networks for fear of retribution. The counter to that of course is that she has realized that fostering this wild card persona is where he bread is buttered which compels her to find opportunities to offend - thereby becoming just as programmed as the people she calls out. The more popular she gets, the more predictably offensive she gets. Such is the cycle of celebrity and success...
It is not what she said, but where she said it. Chris Rock does not do his show on network TV or CNN. When Rock or any other A list comedian is on network TV they do not use the same language they use in their act.

Griffin's act is based on a crude and obnoctious attention getting character. CNN knows this and must have wanted to generate some controversy. Griffin was just being herself maybe CNN is trying the same tactic to get some attention for itself.
And didn't one of the new female comedians on Saturday Night Live also drop the f-bomb during a skit? She didn't get fired. But then again, nobody watches NBC anymore. If a curse-word falls on a television and no one is around to hear it...
Clearly, Griffin would have been fine if she said it on something other than a network show.

Also, some comedians/entertainers set the bar early in their career so people more or less expect them to use a lot of profanity. Chris Rock was even in a sesame street video (Elmopalooza) where his penchant for profanity is made fun of. In that bit, the host (John Stewart) and others are locked in a dressing room and Rock offers (to Elmo I think) to talk them out, but declines when it's made clear he has to be "clean". The joke goes over kids' heads, but shows that no one expects him to refrain from swearing.

Similarly, it's amazing what Howard Stern can get away with considering that Don Imus gets run off his show for making a disparaging remark about black women. It helps that HS is on XM Radio which he practically owns, but he set the expectation early in his career.
None of this would be an issue in Canada or the UK or in fact, most grown-up countries where it is assumed that ADULTS can handle adult language and parents don't let children watch inappropriate content. I think that it is a double standard -- Don Imus got away with racist, sexist comments and foul language for years and was protected -- but that's nothing new. But if the ratings are good, Griffin will keep getting hired no matter what, just as Imus did. That's show biz.
I actually WAITED UP for this one. I TIVO'd 3 of Griffins BRAVO-aired shows last week and LMAO for 3 hours. I loved that Andy could hardly get a word in and just kept up the giggling as she riffed on and on. He may have been cringing inside, but he yucked it up like the good guy he is, probably afraid she WOULD refer to him as one of her gays. Ha!
Oh. Back to the controversy. I give Kathy 8 F*cks and raise her a Sh*t Almighty. Grow up America, it's just a word. And I appreciated the history detail on F.U.C.K. along with Knightwriter's comments - well said.
I went to bad on New Year's Eve at 9 pm. It was cold in the house I was staying in. My relatives have been having trouble because of the recession (he lost his store) and some health problems so they don't have the kind of money that lets them crank the furnace so it's more than 60 in their house.

So missed New Year's and Anderson and Kathy Griffin.

Your piece makes me feel like I should have stayed up--no matter how cold the radiators.