Donna Sandstrom

Donna Sandstrom
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Birthday
September 10
Bio
Born in Brooklyn, raised in L.A., 12 years of Catholic school undone by 4 years at U.C. Santa Cruz (in the 70s!). Moved to Seattle when it was still okay to be from California. Worked in high tech (Adobe) for fourteen years. Jumped ship to start the rest of my life. So far, so good!

SEPTEMBER 15, 2008 3:51AM

Tipping and The Lame List

Rate: 6 Flag

Waaay back in the 90s  in Seattle there was a great comedy show called Almost Live that aired on Saturday nights. One of the ongoing sketches - besides the Middle Management Suck-ups, the High-Fivin' White Guys, and Bill Nye the Science Guy - was a segment called The Lame List (or, “What’s Weak this Week”).

A group of long-haired, heavy metal-type guys, sometimes including Kim Thayil from Soundgarden, would consider a topic (Jobs that Start in the Morning; Girls that Won't Pick You Up at 3 AM) and pronounce its lameness. For extreme cases they would stand in a circle and shake their heads up and down, hair flying, chanting Lame! Lame! Lame!

That is how I feel about the Tip system. I don't even like seeing the icon. I would like a way to opt out of it completely: turn off tipping for my blog and everywhere I go. It just instantly cheapened the whole experience.

I'm not opposed to making money but surely there are more graceful, creative ways to do it.

Here is a proposal: take the money that Salon has spent and will spend to develop and maintain the tipping system. Use it to fund a featured spot on Salon, however much that will buy - once a week? twice a month? Then pick something from Open Salon to feature there. Make the selection process simple - Editor's choice - and give the money to the deserving and happy author. Writers here will get a wider audience and a little cash. Salon gets to pick the creme de la creme from the offerings here. And we all get to move on to more important matters in the Lame List: John McCain’s ads, mock trials at Guantanamo.  

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tipping, open call

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Good idea. These 'tips' are like getting paid for jury duty.
Donna Sandstrom, I could kiss you! Thank you! Eloquently said, without my Tourette's outbursts.
I agree that you've got a great idea here!
Cheap is more like it.
I mentioned on another thread, one of many in the outburst over the tip thing, going into New York to do business. And when I go in I mean business.

One of the subway hubs is at Bryant Park and 42nd St.

If you go down the steps into the subway here, there's a long, long tunnel, which leads to the turnstiles; it takes you from 6th to 7th Ave., or the other way round.

Anyway, in that long tunnel there is, quite often, a subway musician playing off to the side. The acoustics of course bounce the sound down the tunnel to your ears, well before you see the musician.

Then the musician comes into view; and of course there's spare change in a guitar case, or some other container.

Tips.

Many people walk by in both directions. A few will drop something. But there's never much there.

Right now, sorry to say, as I think of OS's proposal, this is what comes to mind.

I don't think I'd count on paying my mortgage by competing for writing work here; but, as a writer, wherever I do it, I mean to do business.
Great image, Dirigo. And thanks everyone, you made it worth staying up late to write this. I hope the Overlords are listening ;)
Here is another thing I don't get: Tipping is based on a percentage of the value of the service. How could you ever calculate that, and how could a writer interpret it - would a $1 tip make you feel better or worse about what you've written?
Another suggestion: I would pay more for my Premium subscription to subsidize what's going on here. Have two levels of Premium: one that includes membership in OS and one that doesn't. So long as none of us has to tip anyone ;)
Seems to me, while acknowledging the good intentions of Kerry et al, the negative connotation of "tipping" has contributed to the uproar about the plan. A boo-boo from a marketing standpoint?

Still, the plan does not suggest a fee structure for contributors, even though there are "promises" about more something or other, down the road, along the way, when we get there.
And one more thing: I find myself hesitant now to invite friends to visit Open Salon. I don't want them confusing my invitation with an implied obligation to tip. Like going to someone's house for dinner and finding out you were actually invited to an Amway party. Tacky.
I don't know, I'm just fine with the tipping system. If you don't want to pay, you don't have to.

And nobody's going to get rich from it. It's more like a little, hey, we liked what you wrote, so here's a little something.

I just want to get my free $10 for setting up the account so that I can start tipping folks!
Hi Tony, not sure what to add to what I've already written here, but I think it was an interesting choice, to ask writers to pay each other. There were and are a lot of other alternatives besides introducing money into our relationships with each other. I think it has already changed the dynamic here, and not in a good way.
I've been silent on the whole "tip" thing because I never really expected much from Salon on this front... and they delivered. However, Donna, you bring up an excellent point in terms of changing the dynamics between folks that we have become "friends" with... it is like sleeping with your best friend: Once that threshold has been crossed, there is no going back.
BTW, how do you think the dynamic has changed since the "tip" thing was announced. I noticed the once prolific Pretend Farmer hasn't posted anything since 08.08.08... that is unusual for her and I wondered if it had anything to do about the dashed expectations.
Hi Elizabeth - I can't say how/if it's changed who's posting, but I think there is an undercurrent of weirdness because people mention their decision to tip in comments here or there. Which shifts the dynamics ever so slightly - Oh, this person is likely to tip if s/he like a piece. Oh, this person is in a financial position *to* tip. None of which I'd want to be aware of, if I had a choice.
It's not going to change my writing. I'll write what I think. If you like it and want to give me a buck or two, fine. If not, oh well.
How can you be so sure? If someone tips you, won't you be a little more tempted to pay attention to the kind of posts they respond to? Especially if it's a big tip?
Over time, are you less likely to engage with people who never tip you?
I guess if OS gets so big that it doesn't feel like friends tipping friends, it doesn't matter. But then we will have lost something too.
If I planned on making a living doing this, then yes, I would see what posts got tips. Since I'm not, and anything that I get is just gravy, I'm going to continue to write what I want to.

And my friendship is never based on money. If you tip me, great, if you don't, that doesn't mean I'm not going to like you.

I'm not doing this for money. I'm doing it for fun.
Everyone Relax....think about it.

Harmless,...right?

What a great way to prune the branches of conent by those who are illustrating thEIR content for product. Natural order of things dictates that this would bring a greater proportion of decent sounding content for who can not accept a "tip." $ or otherwise.

Tony Venuti experiential, social philospher
InPolitically Correct and BEYOND PUKE
KFNX, NewsTalk Radio 1100am,
streamed live Monday's 10am - 11am
http:www.beyondpuke.com
Great post -- sorry I didn't see it earlier! The tipping account required me to fax them my social security card -- no thank you! I think it is for my protection, but last time I hear giving out t social security number, much less a card is in general a no no!
Thanks for the comment, CAPsychProf - amazed you found your way here, had to blow the dust off this corner of the blog!

I wrote this shortly after the Tippem system was implemented. My feelings about it haven't changed much since then ;) Though it hasn't had as much impact on the dynamics here as I'd feared; probably because not many people use it (as far as I know) - some because of the same privacy/security concerns you expressed.

Anyway, cheers, welcome to OS, and thanks for stopping by -