Dorinda D.

Dorinda D.
Location
Orlando, Florida, United States
Birthday
May 20
Bio
I teach writing at several universities. My two daughters are seven and 18. I adore my children, have trouble raising them, and you will read more about them than you care to. I am a professional cancer survivor. There is a lot more that I don't know than I do know.

Dorinda D.'s Links

Salon.com
JULY 8, 2010 10:18AM

Why I Don't Pray in Nine Paragraphs with Sex Included

Rate: 28 Flag

I feel guilty.

Many many loving people have prayed for me over the past month or so, included my name on the prayer list of their church services even though I am a stranger from cyberspace, sacrificed time from their friends and family to put prayer in action caring for an ill friend as in this is what Jesus would do, and written loving emails/pms.

I am thankful to everyone but I do not pray and will not do so insincerely despite my gratitude.  The support was overwhelming and raised my spirits.

Again I am appreciative.I was raised United Methodist in the Deep South and went to confirmation classes in my early teens.  A very good friend of mine now is a Methodist minister and I told him the only lesson I remembered from those classes.  Jesus said one was to pray in private (I think he said in a closet but that is rather suggestive in today’s climate) and one’s religion should be apparent from one’s behavior and service to others – not words.  That was how one witnessed.  My minister friend was happy that I remembered something and said that was useful. 

I used to pray.  Being from the Deep South I married as a teenager.  If one was having sex on a regular basis and saying “I love you” sincerely then one needed to get married. So I and other “one” involved married in a church ceremony at the church where I had been confirmed.  We divorced as could be expected several years later and I tried to pray. 

It felt like I was talking to a brick wall.  I went to my Methodist minister at the time who knew of my academic interests/pursuits.  He absolutely surprised me and said that I did not need to if prayer was not working.  He spoke of his fondness of the beliefs of Native Americans and recommended that I read Friedrich  Nietzsche.  If anyone is unfamiliar with the name here is how Stanford University’s Department of Philosophy describes him online.

Friedrich Nietzsche (1844–1900) was a German philosopher of the late 19th century who challenged the foundations of Christianity and traditional morality. He was interested in the enhancement of individual and cultural health, and believed in life, creativity, power, and the realities of the world we live in, rather than those situated in a world beyond. Central to his philosophy is the idea of “life-affirmation,” which involves an honest questioning of all doctrines that drain life's expansive energies, however socially prevalent those views might be. Often referred to as one of the first existentialist philosophers along with Søren Kierkegaard (1813–1855), Nietzsche's revitalizing philosophy has inspired leading figures in all walks of cultural life, including dancers, poets, novelists, painters, psychologists, philosophers, sociologists and social revolutionaries.

I read Nietzsche.  Much of Nietzsche’s early views/observations were based on his study of the Pre-Socratics as in those before Plato, Socrates, and Aristotle whose beliefs are interwoven into much of Christianity even though they were pagans by default.  They lived in the B.C. years as in before Christ and it is hard to believe in someone yet to be born.  The names of some of these Pre-Socratics and there are a horde of them are Heraclitus (read all about him at http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/GREECE/HERAC.HTM), Gorgias, and Isocrates.

Yes I do know that Nietzsche did not like women that much.  More than likely because he was a nerd to millionth degree and they snubbed him.  Doesn’t excuse what he wrote about women but I don’t read that part. Do you listen to Eminem? Same situation.

Reading Nietzsche supported my love of rhetoric that I was studying in graduate school. That study became enmeshed with my fascination with comedians that honestly began in part because a new boyfriend liked to go out and drink beer on Sunday afternoons as well as Saturday afternoons.  He was a Yankee from Indiana where they had no blue laws as they did in Arkansas meaning no drinking unless it was a private club. The closest private club to my apartment was the comedy club.  We went on Sunday afternoons and I wish now 20 years later that I could remember the names of the comedians for whom we bought drinks and with whom we had conversations.  Alas I do not.  To preserve the Yankee’s dignity he was also an athlete who ran five miles a day so he was not just sitting on the couch downing six packs.  He just liked the party of people one did not find at church on Sundays in Arkansas.

God bless the very broken road that led me here to steal from Rascal Flatts.

One comedian who expresses my distress with organized religion is Doug Stanhope.Here is the major distress a la Stanhope:

You never hear in the news, "200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North."

I understand that religious clerics in the Catholic and Muslim religions saved what we knew of the rhetoric I love by both the Pre-Socratics and Socratics during the Dark Ages.  Without them there would be as Nietzsche would say it – nothing.  So religion has preserved knowledge, promoted art, and disposed people to noble acts.  However, fanatics in any religion screw it up and start killing each other.  Despite the insistence on the separation of church and state in our country’s founding documents that does not happen.

Here is the second distress a la Stanhope:

If marriage didn't exist, would you invent it? Would you go "Baby, this shit we got together, it's so good we gotta get the government in on this shit. We can't just share this commitment 'tweenst us. We need judges and lawyers involved in this shit, baby. It's hot!"

This is the language of the standard wedding vows

Will you love him/her, comfort him/her, honor and keep him/her, in sickness and in health, for richer, for poorer, for better, for worse, in sadness and in joy, to cherish and continually bestow upon her your heart’s deepest devotion, forsaking all others, keep yourself only unto her as long as you both shall live?

Notice the order of the promises 1) comfort, 2) honor in several good/bad situations, 3) cherish, and 4) devote.  Only at NUMBER FIVE does one promise to keep one’s pants on and genitals to oneself around others.  Way too many people break those first more important promises one through four and think they are faithful wives and husbands because they keep their pants on. 

As Chris Rock notes about men which also applies to women: a man is only as faithful as options.  I don’t eat roasted goose every day.  This may be because no one offers it to me as an option.  I won’t know until regularly presented with roasted goose.

You can now classify me as one of those bitter middle-aged OS women writers if you have not already done so.

My point is that if one keeps those first four promises as well as his or her partner then why would there be a need to even promise to “forsake”? Why would one even want to forsake and cause pain to someone for whom they kept the first four promises?  

Stanhope explains

Jesus died for your sins. I'm doing it for your mere entertainment dollar. 

Similarly I am just putting my thoughts and feelings out there for your blog reading. So if you are really angry now. .. please do not be.         

 

Your tags:

TIP:

Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
Recipient's email address:
Personal message (optional):

Your email address:

Comments

Type your comment below:
I agree with it all. R- I believe in Marcus Aurelius' Stock Philosophy. R-
Make that "stoic" philosophy. sorry
"You can now classify me as one of those bitter middle-aged OS women writers if you have not already done so."

why? As in why would i do this? monogamy is HARD, and if a marriage means monogamy, marriage is hard.

I married to have kids and companionship. The kids turned out great.

now that I've got the kids, don't really see the point of marriage.
Absolutely wonderful post. I also agree completely. Great examples and brilliantly written.
rated
As a Catholic-Lite practitioner, I subscribe to the point-of-view that one should be free to worship as they see fit. If you want to spend the whole day in prayer, go for it. If not, get in contact with your Higher Power however you feel comfortable.

As to the “keeping it in your pants” part of the vows, it can viewed two ways:
1. It is listed last because the author(s) thought it was a given that a married couple would stay true to each other, but just in case they added it in.
2. Or, they felt it was very important so they listed it last thinking that it would be the first thing people would remember. Just a thought.
'You never hear in the news, "200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North.'

Very true! rated. I wish you well.
Ms Fox, there are a lot of ingredients in this salad! I believe that praying is just focusing thought on a particular thing, like meditating, like daydreaming, like wishing, like that tense moment at the ATM when you hope the money you requested spins out... it won't turn you into a nun.

Know what's crayyyyyyyyyzee?? Lots of people are ditching that "forsaking all others" schtick out of the vows nowadays, saying that's just too hard to realistically promise... like they ditch the "obey" part for the ladies... And, you're like... well... good on them for taking those things seriously and wanting to edit out the things they simply cannot abide, instead of mouthing the words with no absorption of their meanings... and at the same time, you're like -- you morons, you changed the words! It's like when Ed Sullivan tells people to 'clean it up' for the audience, as if we don't want your gyrating or veiled sexy druggy references, hipsters.

It's all crap.

I think you summed it up really well. :o)
I LOVE this. Every word. Weddings are parties more than committment ceremonies these days. Making love in the woods could be a wedding - it used to be, I think!
I grew up in the church: my father was a UCC minister. My brother is a graduate of Yale Divinity and School of sacred Music - soon to be ordained.
I take what I can from it - church, Christianity. Community, singing, a cool (temperature) sanctuary. I love churches.

I have no idea what I believe - these days, mostly, that earth is shrugging her shoulders at the fact that we are not a good species for the planet. And earth shrugging her shoulders is an earthquake in Massachusetts, a tornado in Connecticut, and fury that she was violated by asking too much of her resources.
Good to see you in such splendid writing form!
Brilliant!

""You never hear in the news, '200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North.'"

PS--Where did you study rhetoric? My wife got a Phd in Rhet from Purdue.
like they ditch the "obey" part for the ladies...

~Snerk~

We wrote out our promises and I changed my Suzy's to include "obey" (strictly as a joke... honest).

The JotP read it as written, but when Suzy calmly and smoothly repeated it, it came out as:

I promise to love, honor, you must be on fucking crack and cherish her as long as we both shall live.


Even the old fart JotP laughed till he had tears!
Not angry at all, great post! I didn't pray for you as that is not a part of who I am, but I did and do wish you well and a speedy recovery.
I was praying for you, but not in anyone in particular's name. i am dead certain that God doesn't even listen, much less answer. Kind of like the way we listen to our young children with one ear for real distress and ignore the constant chatter.

Only we respond to the distress! Because we are people and not gods.

Between breast cancer in two friends, other cancer in another, limb loss in a new friend, and straight up diabetes problems, I am full up with anger. If you want to pray for me about my anger, that is fine with me.

When I ask people to pray with me, I mean it and believe in that power to help us help each other. I am pretty sure God doesn't work like that at this point, but we people do, and so with our prayers and good energy pointed in the right direction, we can help ourselves by loving one another. That is the real power of prayer.

I understand that "sometimes the answer is no" is the theological answer in a standard Judeo-Christian perspective. My take is different, but the result, that we should pray for one another, is the same. That is how God works, many paths to the same destination. The words you use don't change what God really is, just reflect your language and conceptualization of God at this time in specific culture and history. For me, too.

There are sea turtles being burned alive in the gulf, people getting terrible cancers that no one deserves, people losing people that deserve to stay here and continue being awesome, and people who are going to stay but just in time for a completely shit ride to bear its strange and terrible fruit.

Prayer for each other is all we have in the face of a disinterested watchmaker.

God is zero-sum, handing it out with one hand and taking it away with the other. This is different from not existing. But not by much.

So for each joy in life, there is an equal and opposite magnitude concern. And if you don't anticipate that, you get blindsided like a sinner in the hand of an angry god.

Or you can roll with it, pray amongst ourselves for ourselves, and try to muddle through. I am on that.

The marriage issues, I am 100% with you. When I described it to Jeff as a legally binding contract and that I wanted it in case I get pregnant, it kind of broke his romantic heart a little. But it was good, because it helped him know who he was marrying. We re-up privately once every 4 years on leap day. That way, like the presidency, it will be a smooth and orderly transition should the time come.
godspeed to you, which ever way you choose to go.

r~
I don't think you have anything to feel guilty about. I pray every night, and have since I was a kid. At this point, it's just a habit and it makes me feel good. I don't really think it means anything. So I'm with your minister -- if it doesn't work, don't do it. I always feel weird when someone says they are praying for me, but I finally decided to just say thank you.

The main thing is that you are getting the rest you need to get back out there and celebrate your new hot bod!!! I'm praying for that!
Prayer can take many forms including raging at God for what happens to you in this lifetime. If you believe there is a God/Creator, then surely your situation in known to that entity and prayer is not necessary to convey your need.

My belief is that our souls live on and that we meet up with those we have known again and again. In that, I find order in the universe, some reason for suffering and pain, and comfort that there may be a grand plan even if we do not fully comprehend it. If we can accept belief in a higher power, it is easier to accept what is offered to us and well as demanded of us in this life.

I was raised Catholic, to believe there is only this one life, and that the soul either goes to Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. This confinement to getting it perfect in one lifetime never made any sense to me. I haven't rejected all from that upbringing, however. Catholic prayers are just as good as anything to help you clear your mind and open a path to the Creator IMHO.

When you were restless in the hospital, I wanted to suggest that you repeat something you knew by rote, repeating and repeating it so that you were lulled into sleep. I do that with the Catholic prayer, "Hail Mary". I never fails that after repeating it over and over that I will relax and go to sleep. There was some method to their madness in developing the Rosary, repeating that and other prayers over and over. It is a great way to push random thoughts from your mind.

You could probably do that by repeating "Hickory Dickory, Dock" if you chose to...Good luck, Dorinda. I hope you find some peace while you are suffering so much pain.
PS A very wise man once told me that guilt is a useless emotion. I think he was right -- no good comes from it.
My favorite movie quote regarding praying -- from The Ruling Class (1972), starring Peter O'Toole as Jack Gurney.

Lady Claire Gurney: How do you know you're God?
Jack Arnold Alexander Tancred Gurney, 14th Earl of Gurney: Simple. When I pray to Him, I find I am talking to myself.
Interesting post. Chris Rock is definitely one of the greatest philosophers of our day.
As for the lack of praying, I hope you don't feel too guilty about that. I think guilt is often excessive, particularly in humans.
Great stuff. Prayer is a very complicated concept. I used to do it. I don't anymore. I guess that's not so complicted!
Several of us were thinking along these lines this week. Being sick and the need to make sense of that seem inexorably linked. I don't pray either, yet, sitting quietly and breathing can feel something like that, simply feeling life happening within.
My OS obsession has waned, but I'm getting the message here and wishing you well, well, well. I've always enjoyed your thought process. Bring it on.
Fabulous!
I belly laughed twice!
"You never hear in the news, "200 killed today when Atheist rebels took heavy shelling from the Agnostic stronghold in the North."' adn Safe Bet amy's comment. Thank you! extremley well written, loved it.