It seems a long time ago, but it's just about a week that we had the day of the rabblement (to borrow a phrase from James Joyce). I'm speaking of rating hunters, bullies and public disgust.
There was even a tribunal, which I from now on will call the LJDT (Last Judgment Day Tribunal), their members being eljeedetians.
I thought it above all entertainment. And I have amused myself. Not in the least, because my muse reached out for me and made me write a short story, which I published under the name avatar village.
I didn't take a position.
It was just a hilarious account, in which the antagonists neither were recognizable, nor were dealt with in a different way.
Which got a favorable reception as well as was met with a frosty welcome.
It got 11 comments (and 10 ratings). For rating runners like you it's nothing, I know, but this child is easily pleased.
Yet, I had expected more comments.
Why then is it that I'm not frustrated.
First of all I'm not the one to succumb to disappointment.
Besides, there was something strange.
I never have had 500 views within the first 10 hours after publishing. Out of my 44 posts only 9 posts welcomed more than 500 views - and it took some time to reach that number.
With this post, within said 10 hours I had reached 500!
So it was popular!
Was it?
Something was eye-catching.
I had informed both sides of the conflict of the publishing of my view on these historical events.
There were 2 reactions of one side, the victims of what I now call a good witch hunt.
They are a minority of course.
The eljeedetians are the majority - no reaction at all from them.
May be a lack of humor. You see that often in circles of do-gooders and crusaders.
But I was worried: do they consider it as critical?
A few days went on. I was thinking of signaling the phenomenon in another post, when a PM arrived.
It confirmed my forebodings.
NB I will not mention the author of this PM. To prevent the (mis)use of he/she I will speak of OSm(ember).
Next to some moral stuff and other points, OSm's first question was: "If you want to criticize me, please do so directly."
But I wasn't criticizing at all, leave alone one person.
I wondered why this text was not posted like a comment. There was nothing wrong with the text, it differed in no way from comments I had lately seen of OSm.
So I invited OSm to publish OSm's text at the proper place: as a public comment on a public post to enable me to answer OSm in the public sphere.
There was some moralizing commentary on my allegory (OSm's term) and on my commenters and their comments. Therefore I took the liberty to confront OSm in my reply with OSm's own morals regarding the witch hunt. (You understand: OSm doesn't speak of a witch hunt.)
I got a PM back. Again, a lot of text filled with moral stuff.
It was clear that OSm had no intention to post OSm's comment under my story. Till now, I'm unable to grasp the reason.
There was a lot of moralism, and emotional bla bla bla which was at a great distance of my narration. I told OSm so and left it that way.
To clear that piece of air: I told OSm that OSm's morals are none of my business.
Then I answered the points which I thought were the important points.
Some of the major points.
OSm felt criticized and me coming after OSm. I answered that OSm was not all day long in my mind, I reminded OSm it was OSm who had sent me a message, I concluded that I hadn't criticized left nor right; if OSm felt so, then only because of a big ego: and I had no intention to feed that.
I blamed OSm for moralizing about my commenters and their motives.
I told OSm that, in case of a witch hunt, I feel myself qualified and entitled to write a hilarious story, if necessary to the comfort of possible victims.
OSm had spoken to me about avoiding moral choices. I told OSm that demanding a proper filing of causes at a place where a proper judgment is possible not should be confused with avoiding a moral choice.
I finished with: I think I have answered your important points. If you think something is left open, please let me know.
OSm was not amused. I can understand. The language I used was as polite as possible, but as clear, or, if you like, as blunt as necessary.
Yet I was embarrassed and offended by OSm's finishing shot.
First of all, OSm made clear that OSm hadn't read well my answer.
I had said: your morals are none of my business.
OSm answered: so now you question my morals?
???
That aside, in the few lines I got from OSm I was called a troll and a fatuous, self-regarding blowhard.
Hate mail from heaven.
I'm not surprised. I've seen the process of crucifying Matt Paust and FusunA. There was some collateral damage, as usual when Americans go on stampede: liberallibbynyc and STATHI STATHI. Only because they chose to demonstrate their friendship. Stathi was called Statsinazi and no one of the eljeedetians had the decency to correct that when Stathi protested.
So, now I'm a troll.
Well, I will not be confused by OSm's judgment, and it doesn't bother me.
Yet, it made something very very clear: if people cannot read, if people jump to conclusions, if people suppress dissent voices, if people become agitated as soon as they're confronted with cool and sober reasoning - what about their competences in the long process that starts with suspicion and has to be guided step by step to end with a verdict?
I don't give a damn for it.
The absence of LJDT in commenting my story, and the one eljeedetian's comment and replies have convinced me: the LJDT wasn't a tribunal at all. The eljeedetians were like a posse, with only one aim: hang'em high.
So, I want to make two statements here.
First I want to address Matt Paust and FusunA.
Matt Paust, we are not friends (well, you are an OS friend) - now and then you come to my place. I want you to know that at this moment you are for me the same Matt as before the witch hunt. And until a proper complaint has been filed, at a proper place leading to a proper investigation and a proper verdict, you will remain so.
FusunA, as far as I know, we never met. But the same goes for you.
I think OS management owes Matt / FusunA / libby / STATHI an apology - because the public space where these things could happen, is her responsibility.
Last but not least, I want to address the LJDT. But not anonymous. So here's the list of names I'm addressing (in alphabetical order): Drew-Silla, femme forte aka candice, grif -, nanatehay, Safe_Bet's Amy, Sirenita Lake, rita shibr.
If there's an eljeedetian who is insulted because I have forgotten him/her: please let me know, it will be easy for me to add your name to the list, just a straw ballot.
If someone thinks he is wrongfully included in the list: that person has a lot to explain to me.
I want to say to them what I've said to OSm.
I do not know of the morals of Matt Paust, or FusunA. And with good reason: the morals of another person are none of my business.
The same goes for LJDT. I do not know of your morals: they are none of my business.
But, do not have the illusion, not for a split second, that my esteem for your morals (or the morals of the lower members of that judgment-day-coterie) is just the tiniest bit higher.
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markinjapan
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Ande Bliss
Jan Sand
Safe_Bet's Amy
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Salon.com
Comments
Be well, and I am wishing all this story as you have said to be a past in here, and true creative works to be our present and future.Rated.
I can't speak to FusunA becaus I really don't know her, but I think I can to Matt. Matt will still have the friends he has; I doubt he had these to begin with.
Those who get "driven off" aree, frankly, oversensitive
It is rare that the actual majority of those you interact with would condemn you. Rwnutjob may have actually managed to make himself an exception to that because of blatant and repeated bigotry but, as a rule, that's not how it works.
Oh well, I'll up your comment count
You are welcome my OS-friend,
But I'm very sorry, I do not understand your comments, and I do not see any coherence between your consecutive comments.
I prefer you to be very blunt.
Then you and I know exactly what you are talking about, and I can answer you.
IMO, Fusun, Matt, Stathi, Libby and now you owe the rest of OS an apology.
For the most part, getting vilified by a few people won't make much difference to any but the over sensitive. Those targeted will keep most of their friends. Those who can't handle flak from a few people probably don't belong here.
In Rwnutjob's case, had he stayed he probably would have become a pariah because he earned that. He,d have survived one antisemitism episode but he was responsible for two independent ones in quick succession.
I don't like hate mail, which I got from a (prominent) eljeedetian.
I prefer a proper filing of a complaint, a proper investigation etc. before someone is asked to take a very big jump.
I love it that you are asking me to apologize because I'm just questioning these things.
I do not understand where rwjobnut enters the scene.
Again, you are not blunt.
Do you mean to say that femme forte was over-sensitive?
Do you mean to say that Candice couldn't handle flak.
I am fairly blunt, but this was quite a long saga, which may be why it has lingered so long.
A post was written and RWNutjob wrote a nasty comment that was both a personal attack on the poster and antisemitic in whole.
People called him out, except for Funsan. Then people became upset with her, too. It was war.
RW Nut wrote an immediate follow up to *prove* that Jews are the root of all evil. Funsan rated it. More warfare. And for the record, I left RW a comment condemning his post.
Matt commented to someone that it looked like Funsun was using multiple alters to rate herself during some of the flying comments, and Sirenta and Candace did detective work, discovering many alters.
Only Candace looked into Matt's account as well, as she has stated he has stalked and harassed her over a year with those alters.
She put up her research.
Then all hell broke loose, and when Libby and Stathi made positive comments about the Funsun and Matt a bunch more bombs were dropped. I have lost count.
I followed what Candace wrote because I have been cyber-stalked, and I wanted to see how she did her investigation.
And there you have it.
i think it has to do with the puritan injunction.
be perfect. build a CITY ON THE HILL.
we sure tried,with our young men.
jefferson & franklin & those guys.
alot ideas borrowed from Europe, especially Rousseau,
to make a nation.
~
then we had many religious uprisings. we rise up
we americans do.
GOD and TAXATION are our pursuits.
we obsess over both.
it gets very dull,
here.
being sort of educated as an american. not many boys are.
well look. we had a LINCOLN. that is something
we can be proud of. just where he fits in
next to his contemporaries, emerson
and thoreau and whitman and
etc, then wm . james.
i dunno.
it is all messed up.
lincoln:
If I were to try to read, much less answer, all the attacks made on me, this shop might as well be closed for any other business. I do the very best I know how — the very best I can; and I mean to keep doing so until the end. If the end brings me out all right, what's said against me won't amount to anything. If the end brings me out wrong, ten angels swearing I was right would make no difference. As quoted in The Life and Public Service of Abraham Lincoln (1865) Henry J. Raymond
It's my experience that folks who have no vices have generally very few virtues.
another american, bobby dylan, still entertaining the world.
Disillusioned words like bullets bark
As human gods aim for their marks.
Make everything from toy guns that spark
To flesh-colored Christs that glow in the dark.
It's easy to see without looking too far that not much is really sacred.
(its alright ma)
ah so what. nothing sacred means...
everything profane.
unless we tell ya it is HOLY.
Our boys mitt and paul ryan will try. just ignore em if they win.
me? i dont care.
again, I do not see why rwnutjob enters the scene.
But for the record:
- there were more people who rated his post
- there were people who rated his post on the denial of the holocaust
- after me signalling this, still people , also eljeedetians, were follower of rwnutjob!
I do not exactly know what cyberstalking is - probably because I'm a very simple man, and I've very simple solutions to that.
1. SHUT THE FUCK UP regarding arguments about which you don't know the details or back story. (and no, dude, I nor anyone else has the obligation of bringing you up to speed.)
2. STICK IT IN YOUR ASS if you choose to ignore Matt's and Fusun's well documented multiple Alts. Same goes if you choose to ignore Fusun's well documented (5 times enough for ya?) anti-Semitic remarks and support and Matt's constant and clear hatred of strong women.
3. STICK YOUR WHINING UP YOUR ASS too. I can't talk for anybody else, but I didn't read your stuff because I was sick of the subject. I certainly wasn't going to comment or rate something that I was sick of. Capiche?
You called me out by name. That's fine. Now it's my turn:
Eljekar, you can be friends with anybody you like. You can believe whom ever you like. HOWEVER, in the future, I would appreciate it if you would stop being such a ratings whore, stop using people's names and anger to generate ratings/reads and learn what the fuck you are talking about before you open your big fat mouth.
There. That blunt enough for ya, sugar plum???
As for RW, he simply provided the impetus for the airing of feelings and opinions that quickly took on lives of their own.
"...A number of key factors have been identified:
1- False accusations. Many cyberstalkers try to damage the reputation of their victim and turn other people against them. They post false information about them on websites. They may set up their own websites, blogs or user pages for this purpose. They post allegations about the victim to newsgroups, chat rooms or other sites that allow public contributions, such as Wikipedia or Amazon.com.
2-Attempts to gather information about the victim. Cyberstalkers may approach their victim's friends, family and work colleagues to obtain personal information. They may advertise for information on the Internet, or hire a private detective.
3-Monitoring their target's online activities and attempting to trace their IP address in an effort to gather more information about their victims.
4-Encouraging others to harass the victim. Many cyberstalkers try to involve third parties in the harassment. They may claim the victim has harmed the stalker or his/her family in some way, or may post the victim's name and telephone number in order to encourage others to join the pursuit.
5-False victimization. The cyberstalker will claim that the victim is harassing him/her. Bocij writes that this phenomenon has been noted in a number of well-known cases.
6-Attacks on data and equipment. They may try to damage the victim's computer by sending viruses...."
And there are laws about it I must tell you, imagine if one individual can find the IΡ of someone in here, only makes one imagine what the authorities can do..To be honest it doesn't take a law degree from anyone in here to know our rights.
You shouldn't demonstrate any time we meet that inferiority complex.
You shouldn't demonstrate any time we meet that disdain for European people.
Americans can be great.
Europeans can be great.
Shit happens, disillusions are to be met with ...
... sometimes it has consequences.
But to be sure: I have no disillusions with "my" fellow Americans
ciao ciao
A bit different from your "you are cordially invited!"
(You asking me for Our Salon, just a few weeks ago.)
Yeah, and I knew that's no place for me.
As I know that this is the place for the slanging-match.
So, I'll leave your comment as it is.
Of course, I cannot answer it, because it seems to me very emotional.
So, I hope there will come some comment to which I can respond.
Though, I have to tell you: any comment you are adding in the same style will be removed by me.
So'kay. Just stopped back to tell you to stop send me PMs. Three in one day was WAY over the top.
Carry on. I'm not going to be paying attention. I've got people who actually make sense to read.
I do still not understand your first comment.
What I said about your cordial invitation is this:
when people say things you like, they're great.
when people say things you don't like they hear "stick it in your ass" or something like that.
Well, it's a way of managing your life.
Safe bet has decent advice I guess:
“stop being such a ratings whore,
stop using people's names and anger
to generate ratings/reads and learn
what the fuck you are talking about before you open your big fat mouth.”
Well yeah sure. Ok.
Anyway..
What u say unto me, here?
(I don’t mind your EVIL ways, by the way, ha)
El, cmon. Idiots are idiots whether they be of Europa or Amerkika.
This Is an new thing, this writing out the , uh, truth.
If you drop the sword I cannot respect you no more.
Emerson:
• And what fastens attention, in the intercourse of life, like any passage betraying affection between two parties? Perhaps we never saw them before, and never shall meet them again. But we see them exchange a glance, or betray a deep emotion, and we are no longer strangers. We understand them, and take the warmest interest in the development of the romance. All mankind love a lover.
o Love.
• The ancestor of every action is a thought.
o Spiritual Laws.
• Heroism feels and never reasons and therefore is always right.
ciao ciao
I mean, cmon man,the life of the Mind is it.yo?
well if you really cannot then i guess this is america's epitaph:
"it has moved from being a political problem
into the basic biology of survival
of the entire human species
and much of the network
of living things
that has evolved
over millions of years and has become so fragile. "
yep. pretty much.
that is how i see it too.
and if the earth dies, who will care?
Gaia is a grand experiment in perfect conditions for life
as it is
in this particular universe.
jan, there may be other universes.
an infinity of them .
so goddamn what.
this is the one.
special? could be.
why not? gimme a logical reason why all the parameters
of the cosmic
game are perfect for our life.
none i can think of.
anyway, if the end comes it will be f-ing spectacular.
screw that "ends in fire or ice."
no way we monkeys are going
down without a fight.
i think.
i dunno, obviously.
doubt is easy to spread. hope? not so much.
rather impossible, except to fine women.
I like to say:
"mines was not an emotional explosion, it became so by the comments".
Perhaps better to say:
"I didn't mean my post to be an emotional bomb".
I guess we feel more or less the same about libby, but neither she nor Stathi were my subject.
Someone calling me a troll, someone standing high moral grounds in the accusations of Matt Paust and FusunA ...
... well, I just didn't appreciate that.
Your amusing perception that life fits Earth is of the nature of amazement that my footprint in the snow fits precisely the size of my boot. Life of this type evolved here so it fits. It's that simple.
And since much of life delights me why shouldn't I be upset if it is destroyed. That there might be life elsewhere is irrelevant. If a Brancusi sculpture is destroyed should I be compensated that a David Smith or a Michelangelo still exists? Your mind is quite strange to me.
I wasn't naming people because they would just be examples. I was giving you generalities. Plug in whoever fits.
Will people ganging up on an individual make a difference? Depends on the individual. It should make things annoying but nothing worse. For example, how are you reacting to Amy right now? Some would be very upset. You have enough sense not to be. Not everyone has that much sense.
I appreciate your informing me of Rwnutjob,s post at the time.
A few of us, including yourself, have put in words of defense for the accused, thereby inviting attacks from the other side--much in the spirit that Stathi enumerates in her comment above. As I commented on another post, there is plenty of room for reasonable people to disagree. If some cannot do so constructively, we ought to ignore them.
You've put forth a just and fair article on an important point, and you've backed up some people who have received unfair treatment. I compliment you.
The time is arriving, however, for us to stop giving undue credibility to people whose tone and behavior are inappropriate. It appears no one's minds or hearts will change no matter what anyone says on these matters.
Rated.
"hanging minds".
In music you can have hanging tones, which means that the key (piano, organ) or the ventil of an organ-pipe isn't functioning well.
I know that even synthesizers can have a bug which can result in a hanging tone.
So, a hanging mind: something is wrong with it.
Well, not that much fantasy is needed to conceive that we are talking hanging minds these days.
Perhaps an idea for a post - I'll think about it.
Or an idea for a poem: more up to you.
Thanks for letting me know that you could appreciate it..
I do not feel urge to add something to what already is said - you are the two who know exactly what we are talking about.
thanks for your appreciation.
Jan introduced very spontaneously "hanging minds" in reaction to your comment, and I think we should be grateful to his typo-demon.
I'm going to think about it.
" i only came by because you're slinging shit " is not a sense making cause-effect-chain, unless someone told you there was shit.
Apparently (from your comment) you have found some shit, and " i won't let that pass".
So it raises some questions:
- what exactly is according to you - or according to your spokesman - attacking people
- where do I, according to you - or according to your spokesman - attack people
- what exactly is the shit I'm slinging
- what are you going to do about it, I mean to let it not pass : provide me with some substantive arguments, to make me thinking about rephrasing something - or is it you slinging an accusation
- because you left another blog, where someone was called "Statsinazi", with the comment: " i couldn't just leave here without rating and saying: nice job." it can't be difficult for you to tell me how to discern these things.
you didn't make a mistake.
It was a typo of Jan.
I like to say: a typo grandioso!
Anyway, don't let it bother you. That is exactly what he/she/they want!