JANUARY 24, 2011 2:24AM

The new OS TOS

Rate: 45 Flag


 

By way of introduction, some of you may not know that I am emma peel. I blogged about why I created this alias a couple of days ago.  A few have PMed me thinking that I am someone imitating her. That is not the case. This alias came about because despite weeks of trying everything, including using five different browsers and several computers at home and elsewhere, I could not sign in to OS. I have not been able to sign in for the past six days even though I keep trying. I cannot retrieve my posts, anything in my mailbox (which is the most frustrating part), or my profile information. Although like many here I could have chosen a completely different identity and kept it secret, that is not my style.

 

OS has changed greatly in some ways since I arrived in December of 2008, and in other respects it is exactly the same. I will be commenting on some of the changes. 

 

 

1.    The first thing that has changed is that there are many more bloggers here now. Please do not project that statement to mean that this is a bad thing, or that it is about you personally. It is a simple fact. With more people have come some new, unofficial rules. To paraphrase the song, some of them confuse me, some of them amuse me, some of them abuse me.

 

2.   One of the strangest unofficial rules, at least to my mind, on a site that purports to be “for writers, photographers, artists of any stripe,” (you can look it up) is that no one is allowed to mention their professional background if they are a writer by profession. You can be a carpenter, a teacher, a cop, a social worker, a CEO, a painter or a photographer, but you cannot ever say that you are a writer and mention your professional accomplishments. That is considered crass “self promotion” and subject to a wide variety of personal insults and blogs mocking you. You can be a carpenter and write posts about the decks you build and even show photographs of them, and that is OK. You can share your paintings and your jewellery, your gourmet cuisine and even your pets, but you must never admit that you’ve ever earned a dime from writing. That is being condescending and a deliberate, shameful personal putdown of every other blogger at OS. Who do you think you are anyway? You’re nothing but a hack who happened to get lucky, and anyway, you’re boring. Only people who write in their spare time are interesting or talented. Needless to say, I am still trying to wrap my head around this rule on a site that allegedly welcomes “writers…of any stripe.”

 

Example: in a thread where I was being pilloried because I posted about an awful class I had – I teach writing and yes, I know that I’m not supposed to mention that either – someone commented that I was a terrible teacher and that all of my students hated me. That would be at least 4,000 students in 10 years by my count. I’m not sure how the commenter knew that, but I have learned not to question those here who know everything, seemingly by osmosis. I responded by saying that I had, in fact, received more than one teaching award from students at different schools. I was then told that I “boasted” and “bragged” constantly about what a great teacher I was. You see where this is going. Do not make the same mistakes as me. I could be a great teacher and say so often, I could even send PMs to other bloggers correcting their spelling and grammar as some here do, but because I am also a writer by profession, any mention of it even peripherally is verboten. Are you with me so far? I know it’s confusing.

 

You must also never, ever mention or even allude to the fact that you may have earned your living doing something that involved celebrities, politicians, or other well-known people. That is namedropping, and it is forbidden for all but THOSE WHO MAKE THE RULES.

 

3.   Of course, there are exceptions to the last rule. Some writers at OS are permitted to post frequently about their professional writing activities whether they be books or magazine stories they’ve written, book tours, their speaking engagements and school tours, their celebrity media interviews  -- whatever the gamut their writing career entails. These are mostly bloggers who write only about themselves and their careers, rarely comment on others’ blogs, and yet receive much adulation here. I cannot tell you how to become the exception; that is a secret known only to THOSE who make the next rule.

 

4.   Who is allowed to blog at OS and who is not. It’s natural to assume that the very name Open Salon means this publishing platform is all-inclusive. That is not the case. Oh, anyone can join and gain a small following if they put in the effort, but unless you agree to be part of a mutual admiration society, you will not be accepted en masse. That many people here have demanding jobs and lives outside of OS is of no account. To gain favour among THOSE WHO MAKE THE RULES, some of whom are retired and have plenty of free time, you must play the game their way, no matter how petty. That means you’d better make the time when you’re newish to frequently compliment each member of the society every time they post, deserved or not. It is the rate and praise that counts, not the content. If you ever forget that, you will be reminded a few times, then eventually shunned. And if you ever leave for any reason and decide to come back without sucking up, you will be told in no uncertain terms that you are not welcome. THEY have decreed it so.

 

5.   Next is the rule around multiple identities, or alters as some call them. Although it is against the published TOS, many bloggers have multiple ids. Some are open about it, many more are not. I’ve now joined this club because of the technical difficulties I mentioned at the top of this post, but I would not have done it otherwise. The proliferation of multiple ids, often used irresponsibly – which were much less common when I joined -- have led to a breakdown of trust at OS. Once gone, that fragile but necessary social glue is almost impossible to re-create. These bloggers create ids to lavish praise on themselves on their posts to get into the feed; others use them to pit friends or enemies against one another. It’s the oldest ploy in the information game: if you want to find out who you can trust, put out some misinformation and wait to see who brings it back. You might be surprised. People with multiple alters who are not bona fide members of the mutual admiration society are often “called out” for using them. Yet many members of THOSE WHO MAKE THE RULES also use multiple ids and well, that appears to be just fine and dandy.

 

6.   The final rule decreed by THOSE WHO MAKE THE RULES is that no one who has made a living from writing, no matter how paltry or brief, is ever allowed under any circumstances to share any of their hard-won experience, knowledge, tips, tricks of the trade, or advice. I’m sure any reader who’s made it this far can guess what happens to those professionals who breach this most sacred tenet. Every negative trait known to humanity – arrogance, condescension, meanness, spite, envy, accusations of “lording it over” people who are subsequently terrified to write (if only that were true), being held responsible for anyone who isn’t writing and the quality of their writing if they are -- oh the immense negative power of such individuals is as awe inspiring as the outrage of THOSE WHO MAKE THE RULES. Even the most innocent of suggestions is interpreted as demeaning, holier-than-thou criticism and results in a virtual lynching. 

 

Should that person dare to protest such a fantastic over-reaction to what is essentially a good deed, they are labeled once and forever as “bitter,” “failures,” and lacking a “sense of humour” -- because you know being dogpiled on and called a cunt and all the other mud-slinging monikers I’ve already mentioned -- is just so damned funny.  Only people who have never been tested in the marketplace and never learned anything and never want to learn anything about writing could possibly be good writers. It’s that easy. Ignorance is bliss. Anybody can be a writer. It takes less time than learning how to hammer in a nail and call yourself a carpenter. Most things in life are hard and require some degree of training and application of effort, but writing is the one exception. And don’t you forget it. 

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And I meant every word.
Shying away from controversy again Emma2? Bedtime for Bonzo here but I'll be back to read the invective tomorrow.
No, not shying away. I don't consider it invective, just my opinion, which no one else need share. I wrote this for me.
I think you may be surprised to find that I agree with many of your points, and I'd actually like to take one a bit further. You say anyone can be a writer. I suppose, but not everyone can be a good writer and fewer still can be great writers. It takes practice, and dedication and work, lots of work.

And please clarify: Who exactly are THOSE WHO MAKE THE RULES? This would be helpful for those of us who do not make the rules. Calling it a night as well, so I will not demand an immediate response.
Margaret, I am being sarcastic when I say anyone can be a writer. Thank you for your comment.
Now wait a minute. It takes a lot more than knowing how to hammer in a nail to be a carpenter.
Or wait. Were you being sarcastic again? ;-)
Yes, I was nanatehay. Sarcasm is my stock in trade.
You crack me up! You're gonna take some heat for this one, but you don't care if you do. Keep on keepin' on, Emma; you do it very well.
I may not take that much heat, Nana. Most people don't know who I am since I'm not very many Favourites' lists at this point. But you're right, I don't care.
Emma, in my fourteen-odd months here I've seen only two posts - discounting the Trost arrangement - which purported to lay down rules : crazypants and Caitlin's.
While you may not think it inflammatory to tell a bunch of bloggers how to blog, by and large the others disagree. While you may not think Caitlin was telling anyone how to blog, by and large the others disagree with that, too. It isn't about comprehension, either, I don't think.
It's about naivete. Caitlin's.
I'm wondering if it's as simple as the difference between blogging and writing. I think there is a difference.
Writing is something you do for a living, and to succeed you must adhere to certain rules.
Blogging is what people on OS do. It might be a fine essay or a string of photographs, a recipe or a poem, but it isn't "writing" - because here there are no rules, despite what you say, other than opinions which change each day according to the direction of the wind. Fickle wind.
I wonder what your thoughts are on the difference, between blogging and writing.
Kim, I am talking about unofficial rules. People like Cranky and Matt make them and woe betide any uppity woman who doesn't bow to their decrees. The latter used Caitlin's blog last night to tell jk brady that she wasn't welcome at OS, to define what is good writing to him and his cadre of favourites, whom he listed, and to bash Caitlin. Both he and Matt and a few others that I won't mention but they are all part of the same mutual admiration society, do this routinely. That's their right, but it gets a bit rich when they then accuse others of doing the same thing. If you doubt me, I'm happy to PM you several examples. And I'm sure you don't deny the existence of one particularly dominant group of sychophants here, and they're both members.
As for blogging and writing, I don't make a distinction. To me writing is writing. The idea that they are different is a construct that serves people who want to tell themselves and their friends that they are writers without doing the hard work that it entails. Blogging may be more casual to some but it's STILL writing. Professional writing doesn't have a lot of rules but as a top editor explained to me once: "Once you know the rules, then you can break them." He was right. Writing well is developed in only two ways -- by reading and writing and being open to what people who know what they're doing share. It's that simple. Knowing some basics of writing and online presentation is essential to good blogging and it truly puzzles me why so many find that idea offensive. It's as though they're saying: I'm a blogger so I don't have to be good, yet they freak out when people don't take them seriously as writers. That's called having it both ways and doesn't fly with me.
Emma, no need to pm examples - sycophancy is part of the OS fabric, I understand. What some call the Circle Jerk. Mostly harmless but my god there's some anger just below the surface.
Maybe that's what some of this is about : employment.

I see what you mean about blogging/writing.
I guess I was referring to journalism in particular, as my example of "writing," wherein the rules are rarely broken, or if they are, it's high-risk because your income depends on it.
Novels, short stories etc., I'm aware have boundaries being pushed from the inside all over the world, and thank goodness, but they still need to sell. Not even stratospherically, but they need to sell.

I see blogs as a kind of petri dish - new cultures forming and changing alongside their commercial counterpart - experimental, oftentimes fruitless but every now and then a breakthrough. Ultimately the breakthroughs become mainstream.

I agree : bloggers have to be good. Those who are frustrated by the commercial imperative have to be even better. As long as everything continues to rise toward excellence, I'm sure everyone's in agreement. Bearing in mind that most people on OS are here to just connect.
"That would be at least 4,000 students in 10 years by my count"

Sheesh, you are a BAD teacher. 10 years, you should have had at least double that number, by my count. Heck, my 1st year biology teacher had like 3000 students him and well, he didn't even teach hardly any of them!!

;D

It's okay, I know you'll try harder next time!!

Remember, growl a lot!!!

My following of crack heads and sleep deprivation sufferers won't attack you, they may laugh in your general direction, but they aren't laughing at you, but at the invisible monkeys surrounding us all!!!

**Wanders off stage**
"... a kind of petri dish - new cultures forming and changing ..."
O. Hi Tink.
Kim, it's way past my bedtime but you've brought up some interesting points. There is a LOT of anger beneath the surface here, and surprisingly, it's often expressed by those who claim to be the most talented and beloved in the circle jerk. I'm not sure what you mean by employment, but there are people at OS who are justifiably angry and frustrated that they can't find work in their chosen profession of writing. It's hard for them to listen to people crow about how they're so much better than the professionals, and that the professionals are jealous of them, when they've never had to rely on writing for their living. I find that attitude, so oft expressed here, to be cruel in the extreme. Then again, jealousy and insecurity make people do ugly things.

"Rules" tend to be more about what the editors/publishers want from writers than actual rules about writing. Most, but not all, professional writers are assumed to know what they're doing on that basic style level, which varies from publication to publication. I take your point about blogging, but the thing is, I don't see a whole lot of improvement in most people's blogging skills and I've been here two years. As you say, the professional writers who are bloggers have to be competitive and can't rely on a circle jerk to pay their bills, but given the largely hostile reaction at OS to any attempts to suggest how people can improve their blogging skills, I'm not very optimistic that the mainstream is rising. To me, it's seeking a level of mediocrity that is disheartening. At one time I considered sharing some tips about writing and blogging and spelling/grammar since I teach and make a living at this stuff and am constantly creating material anyway, but soon realized that I would be shit upon by all and sundry from a great height and came to my senses.
Shat upon? It's late.
Nah, I'd go with shit. Shat sounds so....pfffffft!!!

Hi Kim. I didn't see you there next to the petri dish and new life grow...oh...that's your beard. Sorry. :D
Tink, as usual you make me laugh and now, I must retire. See you anon.
Geeesh! Still going. I love this discussion. Hilarious. And thanks for the rules. I've been piecing them together on my own... this actually helps, well, sorta.
Still clueless...
You forgot one, Emma. No humor allowed. I know that's one you can manage.
There's "sharing" and there's "lecturing." Whom do you professional writers want to improve, and why? I've seen you in a lot of battles since you arrived, Emma, and many times I admired your spunk. But there's not just a touch of OCD to some of them, and I keep wondering why you have to keep gnawing on such an unsatisfying bone, which is never going to turn into a sirloin steak from the chewing. It does liven up the place, so have at it, I guess. But being pissed off by the whacky activities of Clark Kent is like being pissed off by the sun rising.
I'm pissed off at the whole lot of you!! You guys never come over to my posts and have a pissing match, rating up my posts into the feeds, the comments turning into Roman feasts of blood and guts in gladiator matches as only seen on Paid For TV.

General Brady doesn't rush in and call Matt a cocksucking banjo playing turd wrangler and Matt doesn't throw back, YOU....YOU.....BEAUTIFUL CANADIAN LADY IN WAIT!!!!

Well, the script writer I usually use is out, so you're getting bad Cinemax porn without the porn.

emma would get mad at me if I allowed such a scene to be re-enacted so....

What do I get on my post today?

A, I believe, a starter spammer, which I fell for and sent them $25.00!!!!!!

Damnit the post that got everyones' panties in a twist wasn't even that fire starting. It was no Dr. Amy that's for sure!!!

Do I have to bring back MY doctor, Crotchenrotz, to fan the flames of the perfect flare ups where people will actually burst into flames?

I think I shall!!!

RUN, OPEN, RUN!! FLEE INTO THE NIGHT........LORD DARKNESS IS COMING....

Teeheehee! Just kidding, anybody want a cookie?

**Wanders off, his last words on this subject at this minute, still echoing in the hallway**

emma, by the way, you have grand tastes in hallways!!

**Wanders back out**
I appreciated this post, this gentle late night exchange with Kim. It also shed light on how you feel about your discipline. Many points you make, I understand too. I've had a successful freelance career, and often when I meet someone new, and they learn what I do for $, they'll tell me of their intention to write a novel/cookbook/memoir, and ask if I'd illustrate it, you know, for free, for the great opportunity and the big fun. Each of us is naive, about many things. Is getting pissed off at naivete helpful?

I understand the impulse to teach, it's what I do too, tenured professor, 25 years next year, at the same college that rejected my student application in 1973...heheh, yes, well. It can be difficult to take off the prof hat, especially when you see someone doing something you could help them with. People don't much like that though, unless they've paid tuition for your thoughts....and many times, not even then;-) A difference between you and Ms. Kelley seems to be that you understand this. You are not lecturing here, but expressing your views, some of them tender emotions actually, without pointing a finger. Nobody likes to be poked.

In the meantime, there is much fun to be had at OS, and support, for me anyway, no anger. I wrote a difficult post about losing my mother a few days ago, and people came in great numbers, and lifted me with their words. This site offers a rich and varied experience, and what you harvest from it depends on you, rather than OS itself. That's how communities work.

Oooops, I did a little lecturing there, didn't I? Damn, see it is hard! Sorry ;-)
By the way, you're all invited to my 40th Blow Out Birthday Bash on July 16th, in Las Vegas.

Erik Estrada's going to be there.

and my aunty will be too!!

No, no seperate rooms for the different Factions. That's what will make it totally awesome!!!

KNIFE FIGHTS AT 11PM, 3AM AND 12PM!! :D
I'm not sure "Who ?" makes the rules here. In the fourteen months I have been here I have seen the guard change a few times. I will continue to follow my own rules. I respect that you defend your profession. This issue seems to resurface here a few times a year. In the delivery of most messages, it is the tone that matters. You speak many truths here about the dynamics of this place.
I'm not sure I see the same things you have. I'm a writer and talk about writing all of the time. At the same time, I write about all sorts of different topics, and it's been a very welcoming environment here. At the same time, I comment on the posts of other people ALL THE TIME, and a lot of people comment on mine as well.

Not really sure who these rules are meant for. Aside from that whole Trost thing, I've tended to just ignore a lot of the in-game political infighting and posturing.
Hi Emma, Cindy here (only in hiding).Interesting take. Mine is that there seem to be no rules at all--anarchy rules. If there's any kind of unwritten code of behavior, I've yet to find it. I remember Feed the Cat and Dennis Knight had a list of instructions once, but I disagreed with the one about not leaving links in comments, so I've blithely ignored it ever since. Maybe I should have knawed that bone, as Mumbletypeg so aptly put it.

JK, stop picking on Matt. I love you--go write a post, dammit!

Oh--I teach writing! But don't hate me--it's to learning disabled high schoolers, and I barely eke out a living from it, because I live in --CENSORED-- a state where the politicians are rabid right-wingers who took away all our seniority, and the newly-elected superintendent of public instruction has gone on record saying that if we want to balance the state education budget, all teachers need to take a $5,000 pay cut! I'm a good patriot! Sure, why not?!! My W2 showed $53,000 in 2008 and I just got my new one for 2010 and it shows $39,000! Hey, I can take another $5,000 pay cut! If those crooks at Banner want our medical bills paid, they can put a lien on our house, so there!

Oops, went off on a rant. That's okay. Anarchy rules here, so rants are OK in comments. --er, right, Emma?

By the way, Dorinda thinks I'm you. She left a comment saying I'm the best writer at OS. That sure isn't me--I'm pretty sure she thinks Snippy is you. (snarl)

Ooooops, late for school!!!
Forgot to hug your leg and rate--bump bump bump!
I hope Snippy shows up at my birthday celebration, every body could use a good leg hump!!!

Teeheehee!
Boy, we should all write a post like this. Some of my points/rules would crossover with yours, some wouldn't.

1. Rule #1 - Act like this is Dear Abby instead of a writing forum. Give the writer pointed life advice instead of looking at their writing as a whole. Assume that every post is the gospel instead of a creative expression. Assume you know me.

2. Rule #2 - Even gentle critique of writing is not allowed. It's Lovefest 2011 and if you can't be nice, begone. Continue to let writers make the same mistakes over and over again because its more important they feel the love instead of improve the writing.

I have others but I've only consumed one cup of coffee.

Oh and I am a writer. And a media consultant.

My website?

Hot Buttered Media
No heat here Emma (for once!) I was flabbergasted at this weekend's harsh response to a post to which I sincerely commented favorably. I, for one, appreciate the fact that we have professional writers and journalists and English professors among us, and that they share their expertise. I also understand the ruling class situtation, which is not unlike a microcosm of all that is wrong with America, IMO.

Thanks for this post and for taking the heat on this matter :-)
which is all why, and more, i stopped writing here a long time ago
Glad to see via FB that this is you. I got nothing to say about the dust up other than it almost made me cry at the end- just got too mean. It's one thing to poke fun at someone and it's another to humiliate them. I was laughing for the first hour though, so I was a part of it, even if I didn't comment. Didn't try to stop it either or offer any words of support to Caitlin. :/ She didn't deserve that level of animosity. I didn't agree with her, but she is a person (not only that but a person who is a part of OS, our group, she's one of us people).
@Kim: Just wanted to let you know I love your comparison of blogging to a petri dish. What I (and I think I speak for others) enjoy about it is the freedom it allows for experimentation; the boundaries are relaxed although that can be taken too far, which I've also seen at times. And bloggers - if they're responsible - should strive to be good, and try to improve. From what I've seen here so far, I think most would agree.

@emma, Sorry I didn't catch the sarcasm; I guess I was tired.
ah yes, 'crass self promotion' because, like, Shakespeare worked for free...
I miss the old OS. Before the migration. When this place was turbulent yes, but populated by thoughtful gifted thinkers.

I agree with all of your points here Emma, particularly regarding the issue of multiple identities. I'll never understand why TPTB have not enforced their own rules. It was the beginning of the end of my love affair with OS.
Hi emma peel;

It's great to see you here. I am glad that you're you and not someone else.

Although I'm not on OS much, I did happen to tune into read Caitlin's syllabus on blogging, but before I read the replies I posted one myself, spur of the moment, from the gut, because I found the tone of her work to be repulsive. I wrote two words in response to her question-- what makes you *not* read someone's blog (or some similar question). I wrote, "Self aggrandizement," which was probably the harshest thing I've written on OS, if not the briefest.
After mashing the 'post this comment' button, I realized that I could have gotten *it* all wrong and so I went back and reread it, including the comments (that time), and felt the same way, if not more offended, and not the least bit sorry for the replies she received, by the way. She asked for them, I think. I meant every word of what I wrote, but do agree that I didn’t say it in a way that was palatable, sort like the author did, which some people think is how the world works, though not at its best.

So, all in all, I have to say that things look pretty normal here on OS, even though I'm only back for the briefest of visits.

And finally, for the record: No, I do not consider myself a writer, although I am published in academic journals. I do want to learn to write better, and am open to critique.

Glad you're back emma peel2 and I mean every word of that too.
Rated for defending your craft and explaining it why in a thoughtfully written post.
I'm not singling out Denese, because she certainly isn't the only who has expressed a version of "she asked for it" regarding Caitlin's post. But I think this deflects responsibility from those who got really nasty. Caitlin certainly didn't ask to be called a c**t, and her post didn't force anyone to resort to that. Granted, that was one of the more extreme reactions, but not the only ugly one.

I'm getting to the point where I really can't stand the "Well, what did she expect?" reaction. I think it's a cop out.
@Vivian: glad to be of service. :)

@Matt: I can live without your brand of "humour," which as far as I can tell consists of attacking anyone, especially female, who doesn't bow to your alleged greatness. Maybe if you weren't so thin-skinned yourself, I'd take what you say more seriously.

@Mumbletypeg: Maybe there is a touch of OCD in my actions, then again, I'd have to blog a lot more often than I do for that to be truly accurate. I gnaw on the bone because it continues to irk my sense of justice and decency. No one has to improve for my benefit; my discomfort comes when people actively seek to harm anyone who offers information that could help them if they choose to accept it. That they let their self-esteem issues get in the way of that and turn into a mob indicates to me that they want to be writers without actually having to do the work. That bugs me because I've worked damn hard at my profession and resent it when others tell me they are as a good as me simply because they say so. A bunch of rates a day from people who rate you because they want you to rate them is NOT a true indication of the quality of anyone's work. That said, there are many writers here that I read regularly who are not professionals but do work hard at improving and I applaud them for that.

@jkbrady - justvisiting: I noticed that phenomenon too, which is why I christened them TWMTM. I wasn't offended by all of the posts spawned by Caitlin, but I was offended by quite a few of the attacks, I mean comments.

@greenheron: thank you for your insightful comments. Some of the reactions may be the result of naivete, but some are simply spiteful. Unfortunately, the spite usually comes from people who have declared themselves de facto leaders here. Lecturing is generally a turn off no matter who'd doing it, and it comes more easily to some of us than others!
Didn't get into it this weekend and don't want to now. Just want to say that I value the interaction I have with professional writers here. They have helped me for FREE.. although i do that in my own profession, I am overwhelmed that this is available here for the asking, in my experience. I see the big differences between what I write and what someone that has spent years writing and learning writes. I admire you and many other of the teachers and professional writers here immensely. Am I ass kissing, maybe. But I feel I haven't said it and it is one of the reasons I came, to improve, not to publish, but to be the best I can be. Whenever I ask a professional person or teacher for help, they have helped me, for Free. Thank you all, I feel supported and encouraged here and I value that.
@Scarlett: The guard does change, and I'm speaking about the current guard. I respect anyone who follows their own rules.

@Duane: I'm glad that you have been able to talk about your writing career without being attacked the way so many of the rest of us have. That gives me hope.

@Cindy: It's the weirdest thing. I was searching for your blog last week and couldn't find it. I was out of the loop and didn't realize that you'd had to shutter it. So glad you are back even if you have grown four legs and a lot of fur. Anarchy does rule to some extent, but I think the comments on Caitlin's post proved my point. When a couple of the self-ordained leaders showed up to heap scorn on her, their followers quickly joined in. I am disgusted at the way you are being treated because not only are you a damn fine teacher, you are a good writer as well. You deserve so much better.

@Beth: What you wrote is the saddest thing of all. No criticism of any kind is accepted in most quarters here since people prefer to stagnate rather than listen to a professional who is kind enough to share their knowledge. I would give anything to have had some of the wisdom and talent displayed at OS at my disposal when I was learning to write. Of course, I am still learning and always will be.

@Kellylark: You are one of the voices of reason here. Thank you.

@Lisa: You and many like you. It's OS' loss.
@jane: It is the real emma peel, as real as a fictional character can be anyway. I made those mistakes and corrected them after you pointed them out. Thank you. Re the number of students I've taught: I taught a several different schools simultaneously and that's why my numbers are high. Most of classes are in the 15-30 range, except for some university ones that were much larger. I also included clients in that count. I should have been more clear.

@hyblaean- Julie: You are a sensitive kind person and that is one of the reasons you will always be on my Favourites' list.

@marcellqb: Good point!

@Ablonde: I don't know why they haven't enforced the one id rule but I suspect it has something to do with lack of manpower.

@neilpaul: I appreciate your ability to hear criticism -- it's about the work, not you. Not many people make that essential distinction.

@Stellaa: I've had mixed reaction to the new "action" me but thanks. Your observation is astute as usual. As I mentioned in my second post on this blog, reaction to what is written seems to depend on who is writing it. Lots of people have written about stupid people here, but I think I'm the only one who ever had 6 posts dedicated to calling me out on MY opinion. Same as it ever was.
You're ignoring me Emma peel 2. Why is that? I can take it!

Denese
No, Denese, I'm not. Honest! I'm just slowly getting around to responding to all the comments. You didn't like the tone and replied accordingly. You didn't engage in character assassination and no four-letter words were exchanged. You were your usual classy, reasonable self, and that's why I wish you spent more time around these parts.
@cartouche: Thanks.

@Jeannette: I agree. It is a cop out, and hypocritical too.

@rita: You've always been one of my biggest supporters and for that I am grateful. Most professionals are only too willing to help people for free if it's appreciated. After all, someone helped us and it's part of the writers' code that knowledge is to be shared. I admit to being frustrated right now because I've helped quite a few people who then turned on me because they can't separate themselves from their work. I'm hoping they will learn in time.
Aw Emma peel.. You're as sweet as pie and I miss you! I don't know why this side of you isn't showcased more often?

I wrote to Caitlin. We'll see what results.

Honestly, I think she can learn from this.
@Denese: If I let it get around that I can be sweet at times, there goes my hardass reputation! Not sure how Caitlin will react, but I think she will appreciate your effort.
The TOS rules are a sham. They are so ad hoc and poorly managed that anyone responsible should be ashamed.

Aside from that, why does anyone give anyone else a second thought as to who is considered "a writer" or anything else? I do understand how some may foolishly attempt to take up rent free space in someone else's head by putting that sort of head trip on them, but I thought the targets of such things learned to let those rolls off in the 1960's liberation movements. Then it occurred to me that people within dominant culture, I think, have a very hard time accepting someone else's disapproval. I'm not saying that it is a walk in the park for me, but the perspective about such external definitions is different for me when you know that a sizable chunk of the population barely considers you human without some sort of qualifying term ahead of it. If they dislike your profession, fuck 'em. If they dislike your view, fuck 'em. If they try to say that you are something other than what you say you are, fuck 'em.

And as for those OS rules that are so poorly considered and enforced, fuck 'em.
Your TOS are hilarious and I know just who you mean by 'those who make the rules' as they seem to be the most insecure about their skill as writers and are the most vitriolic in their ad hominem attacks. You are Athena in the little stanza I wrote in response on the unwarranted and vicious attacks on a professional writer.
Hi again emma2. I'm pleasantly surprised that the discussion has been more civil and thoughtful than I feared. I don't have any stake in the writer versus blogger issue. Both points of view have some merit. And we may part company on Cranky's posts. I enjoy them quite a bit.

Stellaa made an interesting comparison of cartouche's article with that of Caitlin's. paraphrasing, the content was quite similar and there were differences of tone and style. That's how I remember it but tone makes for a very different reaction. To me, one came across as an old hand passing on some useful institutional wisdom. The other sounded more condescending.

Kudos too to Kim's and Beth's comments. By the way, I hope you'll be writing something un-meta soon.
I keep reading the phrase, "good writers." Why do writers need to "write well," or up to some standard to post their writing on OS? And who is the judge of what's 'good?'? I wrote fictional biographies of such presidents as Taft and Millard Fillmore fifty years ago. Was I a writer?I don't write for a living now, and never got above the "hometown paper" level when I did. I've been published in a few Journals for $100 a pop. Is that a living?
I'm orking on a memoir now. Am I a writer? If so, when did I become one? Point is that yes, everyone can write. It's not the gilded edges or the the Pulitzer prize that makes a person a writer. Its telling a story, and the stories on OS have a way of naturally weeding themselves out. They need no police.

I've also been a master woodworker as well, and yes, that journey began when I drove my first nail. I could have stopped there, and I could have stopped after my fake bio of Calvin Coolidge.
Gotta hit the hay.
@Bill Beck: "fuck em" may be the best advice I've had in a long time. Your theory about those in the dominant culture -- especially older white men, many of whom aren't used to being questioned or challenged -- is an interesting one. Food for thought.

@Sazerus: Glad you "got" this, and thanks for commenting.

@Abrawang: I'm glad you came back. Things have been OK here, haven't they? I hope to write something non-meta soon. I have lots of ideas.
Writers,
Please excuse my grammatical error, first line, paragraph two.
As I said, I must get to bed. (There, I'm a poet.) but before I do, I want to ask Emma Peel2 what she is so damn afraid of?
@Bob: most people who take writing seriously have the urge to do it well. For me, this applies to most activities I attempt although I know that I will never excel at some things no matter how hard I try. But I still give it my best effort. I truly do not understand people who call themselves "writers" yet dig their heels in and refuse to learn anything about the craft. That is offensive to people who dedicate their lives to learning to do it well. I think the difference between people who value good writing and who consider themselves writers is that it is an overwhelming passion and not something they do in 15 minutes while thinking about something else. Not sure what you mean by writing a "fake" bio.

As for your belief that "everyone can write," I do not agree with you except in the most literal sense. I don't recall that I ever said OS needed police. You've jumped the shark there.
@Bob: it's your opinion that I'm afraid, and I don't share it.
Yes, anyone with a pencil and paper can write. We get 'better' by degrees.
I've met many carpenters who dig in their heels the same way. They are still carpenters. People will probably enjoy my carpentry more.
Police as in policed. You are assuming I meant you.
Or not. The inability to accept any criticism of work without taking it as a personal indictment is a sure sign of someone who is unlikely to improve their writing. There are very few exceptions to this. As I've said before, the only way to become a good writer is to read, to write, and to learn from people who know more than you do. Despite what media constantly tells us, genius is in short supply in the world.
You're preaching to the choir. It's 5AM. Good night, amie.
made it through four... sigh
I don't believe that anyone on OS has objections to learning from those who through experience or education have tools, advice and information to share. From what I have observed, people are offended by tone and attitude.
Hubris is never appreciated.
Even in the courtroom where confidence is mandatory in presenting an argument a certain humility is required if there is any hope of engaging the jury. No one likes or respects or even trusts a braggart, and secondary agendas are easily recognizable when egos are involved.
The bottom line is that you cannot expect to gain for yourself if it means hurting others in the process. Constructive instruction, criticism or guidance is never hurtful and always welcomed when delivered with sincere compassion; not judgement. If you are going to perform a "good deed, " make sure your motives are pure and your delivery is without malice. Everyone will listen.
Thanks for bringing up these important points, emma.
There should be room for all here.
i'm not clear here emma. you aren't, I take it, referring to anybody who runs the site, i.e. the editor or whatever, but to bloggers who have said something that has pissed you off about your work.

frankly, i don't pay attention to them and if they become difficult i don't think twice about deleting them. You will not see an entry on my blog, and there are a hundred of them now, wherein I engage in "rule making." I enjoy the "amatuer" status of OS and think it's a lot more fun to see people who always wanted to write and have an outlet find one here. I find most of the so-called pros a lot less interesting, (but that isn't a rule either. I take good writing where I can get it.)

I try my best to be supportive of good work, and hope they get the message. I take as much umbridge as you do, I suspect, at the enforcers and bullies, but feel it's a waste of time to engage with them.

It's a big world with lots of things to write about. I direct my blog to the "innocent"--those unscathed, or at least not tainted by their own sense of self-importance. The history is that they don't last long anyway--and I'm one of the few still around since the beginning.

All the best, by the way, I've liked a lot of your work, have said so, and think of you as a colleague.

P.S. none of this is to say if someone really offends me, and/or has their head so far up their ass they can't smell it any more, I don't let them know that, either.
the biggest problem i had was going for over a year without on EP. It pret near kilt me. When I finally shared it with someone she encouraged me to contact the new editor. She put up three or four pieces in rapid succession, I re-acquired an audience outside my friends, and have been forgotten again.

My goal is to eventually have enough stand alone posts to propose THE WIT AND WISDOM OF BEN SEN, and then learn to be sweet like Lea and talk some dummy into publishing it. Maybe if I get some terminal disease, they'll take pity on me, but I doubt it.
I tired of TWMTR and am here less often. But I am encouraged when I read posts like this. I appreciate constructive criticism: words of praise help my ego but not my writing. I'm here for my writing ultimately,but that admission feels loaded on this forum. I appreciate what you bring to OS. STAY! Please?
Sorry Emma. I feel no compassion for you. You changed your avatar and that is not acceptable.
Now I trust you will post your usual quality stuff here, and if you do, I'll try to get used to the new avatar.
@Susan, I understand your points, but I take good information where I can find it, especially if it's free. I'm more concerned with substance than style. Most people were appreciative of Caitlin's information until TWMTR started savaging her and then it became an ugly free-for-all. Jealousy is a cruel taskmaster.

@Ben Sen, great to hear from you. Nobody attacked my work. I was responding to an attack on another writer here that got way out of hand. I like what you have to say about self-important people. I wish I could be sweet but like you, my personality is more salty. Thanks for commenting.

@Tim4change: Thanks for not throwing compassion out the window.
Yes, it's really me Bonnie. OS is working on my sign-in issues, but in the meantime, I'm here. Not sure about clear -- I feel kind of fuzzy today.
Oh, don't be silly!
It's just annoying when someone posting here apparently and patronizingly seems to attempt to assert some form of superiority over the other "writers" in this venue.
We are all writers except for maybe moi, since I usually use speech-recognition software to post which makes me a "talker", but carrying that reasoning forward makes all of the rest of the writers here "typists", so we might let that dog sleep undisturbed.
Besides, every group needs an overweener or two as object lessons.
If the bun fits...
But we love you Emma, it's those other uppity wieners that I'm "talking" about!
And I meant every word.
I know exactly what you're talking about! It's like being back in high school again....with both the spoken and unspoken rules.
You're delusional. I accept that my behavior and comments bring it back. You seem to think it's your writing credits and not confrontational style that gets people angry, yes, even when it comes back in the form of mocking your credentials. It's called Karma. Deal with it. Action, equal and opposite. Stop whining.
i am glad you cleared that shit up.
now you can get back to being a fine writer...

"mostly bloggers who write only about themselves and their careers, rarely comment on others’ blogs, and yet receive much adulation here. I cannot tell you how to become the exception"


be original, that's all there ever was or ever will be.
the vultures
will flock over your suddenly dead corpus,
of course...

but scavengers in America
can be shot w/o impunity,ha
Such a babe in the woods--I didn't know there were any rules here. I liked that. Encouraging all opinions and contributions would seem to be a good thing. Not?

Write and let write.
The comments as much as the actual post remind me why i love Americans - you can't even GET a thera'Pist in the UK as we're all nutz.

Millionaires but nutz. Writing ? I delegate,

"Push send please FRed(tm) "
He's such a helpful Siamese too.
p.s.

And Canadians - you're great too. Anyone who can stand that cold is my hero.
I am a red sweater from Chicago. I hope I will be allowed to blog here.
Emma my dear Lady, you cannot wear leather and bend over like that without someone wanting to ''mount'' your blog - whether it's here or on emma peel v1.0 - but I think your post got the result intended.

It certainly wound up some of the professionals and the rest of us.
SUperb.
I'd like to suggest a different metaphor.

These are NOT the People Who Make The Rules.

They're just sharks, on a feeding frenzy, hoping to drag you down to their level, so they can feed on you in the cold harsh waters, where the light of reason dims, and victory goes to first to attack or the sharpest teeth.

The "Rules" are just their attempts to tug you down. Write well, share your advice freely with those on whom it is not wasted, promote yourself well and gain readers, and leave them to flail in frustrated jealousy.
I'm new here, a refugee from the about-to-be-shut-down Viewshound. I don't know the rules but I've never been very good at rules anyway, so what the heck. Thanks for the look inside the Open Salon culture.