Oh my, the obscenity of it all! I think I'll go read my Bible. I'm thinking "Song of Solomon".

You know Jesus could never post this on Facebook!!
(See Jodi's post: http://open.salon.com/blog/jodi_kasten/2009/03/04/what_is_too_hot_for_facebook_evidently_menudity_warning)

Oy, what's a Jewish mother to do?

I bet Jesus turned that into wine...

as dcvdickens said - jesus would never get away with posting these pics on his FB page. heh.

rated

I just realized that I tagged it haiku.

So I changed the words to make it so.

Enjoy!

ha! You are a genius. Take that, people intimidated by breasts!

Mein GOTT!
(Literally)

You get the coffee snorting award for the day!!!

(thumbified for making me laugh!)

I think these images are highly coveted and revered on Popebook ...

Haha

I hate it that 50 years ago some clever guys decided that in the name of prudery, they would change us all to formula instead of what God gave us.

Women know how to feed their kids, if they could just listen to their bodies and common sense.

You do not need to carry bottle with you, they are built in.

Alternate title for this post:

WWJD?

boobies!

I love this. You are my friend forever.

WWJD? Indeed...

Apparently, Jesus would suck it!

Mwahahahahahah!

(My husband from th eother room, "I'm sorry, Jesus.")

Yikes! Didn't Mary even think about Baby Jesus' oil painting and fresco identity? Very selfish!

Well, I'm sure he didn't appreciate the swaddling bit. Also would have been nice if his mother smiled at him all the while, rather than look all tight lipped and distant.

gasp!

Hail Mary full of milk...

Let's face it. Jesus obviously told the first Jewish mother joke.

Mary and Joseph exclaiming,"That he couldn't be a doctor or lawyer or accountant like the other kids in the neighborhood."

My wife always says all men suffer from one of two problems:
1) Too much tit as a child, or
2) Not enough tit as a child.
What do you suppose His problem was?

Okay....this goes onto my Facebook too!

yowzuh.

For goodness sake you would think this "debate" couldn't possibly happen on OS. Is this or is this not a place for adults? Are we not reconciled to our biology, at long last?

Any kid embarrassed by his activity as an infant being viewed by others needs to volunteer at a soup kitchen, to get some perspective. criminitly.

rated. good one.

I stay out of OS debates of late. I think it is usually just for attention. But I believe in this issue and I was aghast at what was being said about specific people. That is really not cool.

And the debate is ridiculous. In the history of mankind, formula has only been preferred in america for about 50 years.

That's goldfish memory time.

Lovely pictures.

*tennis claps*

Well played.

How appropriate and timely, and on so many levels. You're a clever girl. Nice! I thumbed too!

Is it wrong that I would like to see a painting of a baby Jesus sitting on the crapper reading a copy of "The Runaway Bunny"?

Rated for fresoe-ness (A special shout-out to Jess for making me laugh out loud with her comment)!

WWJD? I don't know, but I bet he's as embarrassed by his childhood images as every other kid in the world. Maao---ooommmmm!!!!! Welcome to the club, kid. Thanks for posting, EPriddy. I don't know what the dustup was, (do I??) But I'm pretty sure I'm glad I missed it.

Yes, that is very wrong. Verily, even.

May I please state again for the record that this is The Proverbial Shit?!?

I lurve you, Elizabeth!

Breastfeeding is not the equivalent of taking a shit.

Pictures of the two acts are not the same.

Some dude pawing at a boob is pornographic. A baby copping a meal is not. Wake up, sad people that don't understand that!

Breastfeeding used to be a matter of fact, a normal part of everyday life. It needs to become so again. Grown ups get this. Here's to grown ups, yay!

That was basically the kerfuffle in a nutshell.

That and a post questioning the privacy of the kids involved and attacking Jodi in particular, indicating that she is a crappy mother for not protecting her kid from the potential hazing a decade down the internet pipeline because his friends might see it and make fun of him.

He had an interesting idea and argument, but he used Jodi to frame it and that was seriously not ok. Because it called into question her judgement and concern for her child over a picture of her displaying good judgement and concern for her child. That was ironic, but not cool.

Marvelous!

Very funny.

Yeah, Jodi's kid might someday be 13 years old and embarrassed that his mom put pictures on her Facebook page of him nursing as a toddler. But then at some point, he and his friends are going to grow up and get over it.

Because we ALL have embarrassing childhood pictures, and other than our weird American fetish for breasts, the pictures I saw weren't any more embarrassing than hypothetical pictures of him as a toddler eating Cheerios.

Rated for 4 out of 8 possible boobs.

Disney would have escorted them out of the park. Oh, no. None of that.

Hahahhahahaha. How is it that I have not friended you until now? You are faboo.

Pablo's point was quite different than this and I'm still trying to find where he said Jodi was a bad mother, or that he hated his father. The average kid would be embarrassed about seeing this kind of picture of themselves, on Facebook or elsewhere. Sheesh -- that's just a fact, whether or not we as adults agree.

That fact that these beautiful paintings are being used to attack another poster bothers me. I don't think I'll ever be able to look at them in the same way again.

You need to add "what would Jodi do?" to the tags.

Well, emma, you're going to have to get over it. The paintings are what they are regardless of how they may be displayed and in what context.

Pablo never said he hated his father. He did attack Jodi and use her as an example of something he apparently thinks is potentially soul crushing. He is a big boy using big words and I am sure he will survive this most oblique attack.

Most of he people posting to this comments section were aware of the jodi post and the facebook issue and the larger issue of feeding in public as a problem for some hypersexualized freaks.

I'll leave your comment. But it is ridiculous. I stated very clearly and directly in Pablo's blog why I saw it as an attack and a smarmy one at that. It hurt his argument to involve her, so it was poorly organized as well.

You are just wrong. you said it was helpful when people point that out from time to time. I read your blog because I like you. you are blunt like me. That is how I know you will take this the way I mean it.

If this were a direct on Pablo it would have read:

Pablo is an idiot. he makes bad arguments and bashes moms because his daddy was kind of a prick.

It would have had no pictures to illustrate the larger issue.
It would have had no cool haiku.
It would have had no comments.
It would have not been funny.
It would have had the tiny insignificant scale and reach of a personal attack.

That is the difference between a lame personal attack and an actual post that has layers of interest.

And that is what I strive for. I am making one haiku and graphic per day. Some days it is less than this one was, and other days they are interesting, too.

Interesting trumps boring personal attacks every time.

Fair enough, although I don't believe that I am wrong in this instance.:) I'm stubborn, too.

Actually it was you who said he hated his father and I wondered how you could possibly know that. Again, if Jodi didn't feel that Pablo attacked her, I wonder why you would keep saying that he did. He never called her a bad mother either, that was your interpretation. What he did do was use her post as a jumping-off point for his own, but I don't think that implied that she was a terrible person. He just had a different opinion.

But we'll probably never agree on this. For the record, my best friend was unable to breast feed her child -- many women aren't able since it's not quite as easy as all that -- and I wouldn't like to think that somehow that makes her "incomplete" or "less than" because her child will never have a picture of his mother breastfeeding him on Facebook, or in a painting, or anywhere else.

Yes, I interpreted his remarks to indicate that his father was a rather unpleasant and abusive person.

And I interpreted his remarks about Jodi to be unkind and ungenerous and unaware of her due diligence regarding her children.

I did. And then came this in response.

I was unable to breastfeed. I was ready to go the full two years and then they didn't work. So I am not the one to fly that flag for. or maybe I am, but I am ok with my limitations.

Breast is still best, even when yours don't work. I can attest that a healthy smart kid can result from formula. As can about 3/4 of amerca raised since 1950 til about 1990.

And for all we know, Jesus may have had a wetnurse, cause that is how they rolled back in the day.

These ladies could be slaves of his family.

I am kidding, the painters said they were all Mary.

Pablo stated himself that the word humiliating was too strong to have been used sincerely. Jodi did not consider herself insulted, and even considered many of his points valid in her response, as indicated by the fact that she described the precautions that she had taken. She said that if he had read many of her posts, he would have known that. I doubt that she meant he should have read every post she has ever written about her children before making a counterargument. From the one post, those precautions were not self-evident.

That you insist on interpretations with which both Pablo and Jodi disagree leads me to the conclusion that for reasons not entirely clear to me, you decided to make their intelligent and reasoned exchange about you.

I don't think Jesus would mind an artist using models as stand-ins for himself and his mother. I can't imagine how he'd feel about digital photographs posted on the internet.

I didn't have to go through all this sturm und drang when I breastfed my children. The first one for three years, the second, being a preemie, I had to pump & freeze to take to neo-natal intensive care, the other two were more, uh, regular.

It's simply the best a mother can do for her baby. So I did. No drama. End of story.

Since jodi still lurves me, I am pretty sure she was being nice.
Ask her!

And Pablo wrote that stuff about his dad, not me. I was responding to the post, not his backpedaling comments. If he prtrays someone in a manner that I interpret, my interpretation is just as valid as his opinion. This is writing, not psychotherapy. I am sure that Pablo is not really impacted by my remarks.

And this post is definitely about me. That is why I disengaged with Pablo. I had something more to say on the topic and did not think that his blog was the right place for it. My blog is.

Most of us didn't need the comments to understand that kind of joking relationship one has with one's father. Jodi said she didn't agree, but respected his view. I will take your word for the fact that you know Jodi better than I do. That wouldn't be hard. She wasn't just being nice though. She could have ignored Pablo. Instead she chose to acknowledge his points by offering some clarifying data. She recognized that he had a different opinion from hers, and while it was not a direct counterpost, was to some extent influenced by it. Civilized discourse recognizes that reasonable people can differ in their opinions. At the risk of repeating myself, I think you have willfully misconstrued Pablo's piece and the ensuing comments.

Obviously this post is about you. In Pablo's comments, your angered misinterpretation was also about you and not a reasoned consideration of either of their points.

Blogs aren't always civilized discourse.

If you go back and look at the meta comment that I made about his argument, you will be reminded that I was quite reasoned in my response.

I realized that my feelings about it were not 100% about his blog and had the good sense to take it elsewhere.

I didn't do anything wrong, as you are mildly suggesting.

I don't think there's a person alive who enjoys being criticized publicly. But, I knew that was a distinct and likely possibility when I chose to post what I did.

I respect Pablo's right to say what he did.
It's his blog.
I didn't especially enjoy it.
Would you?
But, it's his point of view.

I fully support Pablo's right to his opinion, but I fully support Elizabeth as well.
This is her blog and her opinion about the issue at hand.
On Pablo's blog, I addressed the issue and gave specific precautions I had taken to protect my child's privacy.

As for Elizabeth, she is a dear personal friend of mine. She has gone to bat for me in a very public way and I can do nothing but thank her profusely for that. I certainly hope she knows I would do the same for her.

Pablo wrote something involving me.
I responded in a dignified and respectful manner. I don't want to hurt or judge anyone.

I understand that people are angry on both sides.
But, I hope that anyone who feels I am doing a disservice to my child will see the precautions I have taken to avoid that. I'm a real person and so is my son. I'm doing what I think is best for both of us.

I'm not sorry I shared the photos.
I'm not sorry I drew attention to the issue.
And I'm not sorry Elizabeth used this art to make her own point.
I am sorry that people I respect are at odds.

I respect everyone's opinion with an open heart and a lot of love.

My intention was to inform people about a current controversy which involves over a quarter *million* women who are posting photos in protest. I chose to do that, right or wrong. I have heard the voices of those who disagree and I have taken them into consideration. Rest assured, you've been heard. One down - 249,999 to go.

I had a lovely and beautiful evening with a dear friend tonight. I'll be posting about it very soon. You'll be surprised who it was!
Furthermore, you people are NEVER allowed to ask me again why I stick to writing funny things and poetry most of the time.

Since Mary was responsible neither for creating nor disseminating these images, this post is both illogical in itself and irrelevant to the debate on Pablo's blog.

obviously, you didn't get these off facebook!

the greater or the lesser key of solomon?

ars nortoria
?
me neither.... no clue
'smile"

Thanks, Jodi. I knew you were just being nice. He was rude.

And libertarius, I actually knew that Mary didn't paint these. That is part of why it is funny. You see, this was funny. But you didn't get that. It was also about a hell of a lot more than Pablo.

I am actually not angry. I am an entj. We judge without getting hepped up about it. Judging is just another minute of the day. We don't even cry when others do it to us. It is ok.

I tried up in comments to indicate the difference between angry voice and the voice of this post, which is much mor sarcastic than angry. And while sarcasm may be born in anger, it thrives in reason.

I feel lucky that I was born able to see the difference. In the same manner that I have had to learn to care about many things others get very excitable about, others should learn to address non-personal issues with dispassion.

I don't care about Pablo, his dad, or their relationship. I do see it coloring his worldview. I do care about him trashing someone who had done nothing to him in order to sensationalize and exploit for his own purposes. And I made wicked fun of him as a result.

And specifically, about the teasing that everyone is familiar with mentioned earlier. I am NOT familiar with that behavior and do not find it acceptable. It is bullying and mean. Just because people do it, doesn't mean it is ok. In my household, about he third time that business-card was mentioned my mother would have slapped the shit out of that man. Which is why I did not live with that kind of constant harrassment. She didn't allow it between us kids or from other people. I am grateful to her for that.

My son will also not have to learn to tolerate what passes for humor in some households, because I chose to marry a man who doesn't do juvenile crap like that. And he certainly won't be learning it from me.

I took a bullying tone with Pablo on purpose, because he seems to understand that language. But it wasn't in anger as much as a tone for tone response. And I doubt that he is crying over it. He is welcome to delete my comments. I haven't deleted any of these here, but I have to be provoked way harder than with some judgemental criticism to do that.

i just know i'm going to break out in snorting laughter over that 'hail mary full of milk' line for the next several weeks now

i really wish i hadn't read that...too funny

I have been impressed and delighted at the humor shown throughout this thread. Thanks to everyone!

You rock my world.

Just goes to show, this is a country of closeted, sexually-perverted hypocrites.
Why? Chew on this: a woman defecates in a cup. She and her friend eat the feces. It is Webcasted all over the world. This is a turn-on?

However, a woman does the most natural thing in the world: she feeds her baby in a public place and she is arrested.

You ask WWJD? As any good son with special God*-given powers do, he would turn the haters into a pile of s***.

*OMG! I said the G-word on OS. Please don't horsewhip me. I be a good N-word from now on, masstah!

I apologize if this comment offends thee. Delete if you wish.
I really like your Haikus; I don't care what Wayne sez.

What is that I hear?
Is Wayne trashing my haiku?
Oh no! Which wayne, where?

monkey on my back
coloring outside the lines
maddens this monkey

Seek and you shall find, my pretty. Just type "Wayne" in the search box. BTW, in all fairness to the great OS educator himself*, I don't recall him trashing your Haikus per se, he just schooled us on the proper way to write in the ways of the Orient.
* I do respect his posts and comments.

I respect Wayne, too.

I am not writing traditional hiku, so I am cool with his remarks.

Some seem to miss the fact that all of these pictures were created 1000 or more years after the time of Christ, and were the artist's idealized version of what J&M may have looked like. Truth be told, nobody knows.

I stayed away from the posts which engendered this controversy, since I saw it as a dogfight which neither side could win.

I only know that my kids would never be embarrassed by breastfeeding photos on FB or elsewhere. We brought them up to respect ALL aspects of motherhood.

BTW, I'm happy to know that Trudge and Elizabeth are cool with my attempt to call an Haiku an Haiku, and a Senryu just that.

Thank you, Wayne!