Frank,
NO! You shouldn't go. This is a forum for the free exchange of thoughts and ideas.

Frank, I have no idea who wrote you this but this is ridiculous. Given what you've written, there is nothing "friendly" about pointing out something to you that I for one certainly don't agree with. It sounds more passive aggressive, well downright aggressive than anything else. I was thrilled to see your return. And I can't even imagine that the Frank I've come to know would let the opinion of one or even many send him running. I like your Frankness.

I'm jealous. Nobody has sent me any threatening letters.

(Pouting)

I think your posts are thought-provoking and interesting. E.g., JEWS. We don't need unanimity of thought, here; we need great diversity, which you offer. Your writing is from both the heart and mind, and is a Good Thing, imho.

I don't like Obama right now, and I am sometimes confused about your enthusiastic defense of him, but I respect your view and enjoy seeing it.

Stay.

You are no worse than any here. Don't worry about it. If people say they don't like you then it's their problem.

No worries...

Actually, I have you identified in the back of my mind as a cranky old fart. But cranky old farts have something to say. I think you should stay. As has been pointed out in a couple of recent OS posts: it's a consumer-based system, if we don't like you we can always ignore you. Stay.

I got 2 death treats doing a blog on the environment. I still kept it up for a few years... If you piss them off, they are at least reading your stuff...

Frank, someone is playing games. I enjoy your posts and comments.

What is this? Sixth grade?

"You know, EVERYBODY's talking about you and NOBODY likes you. You should just go kill yourself."

Whatever....

THREATS! Not 'treats'... Need caffeine. Need sleep...

Frank,
I'm increasingly becoming disenchanted with the President, but the fact that you are one of his ardent defenders is good for all of us, I think. It points out stuff we might have missed. So I'd ask you to stay.

No Frank. I agree with Mary. I do think the Dennis Loo thing has run its course though.

Screw em'. I don't care if you are a crazy lib....you have the right to say any crazy shit you wish.

I would love to know who sent it to you. How utterly ridiculous!
You better not go.

I guess you are asking for advice but I always say the same thing to posts like this. I hate flouncing. Go if you want to or don't. But I hate flouncing.

What Julie said.

Frank, you should stay and participate.

In life you will find those that agree with you... those who disagree, but continue in a respectful and logical dialog... and those who disagree and resort to personal attacks or name calling.

The latter I ignore, if possible you should to. Life is to short.

I like Mr E's response--and VR yes this is 6th grade and I learned yesterday from my 16 year old niece that nobody says "Whatever" anymore---they say "Whatev"

And of COURSE you shouldn't leave Frank!

What they think of me is none of my business, why should what they think of you be yours? Hugs and kisses,

Frank, Like many of our colleagues, I have always believed in the free exchange of ideas......they are words, and yes, words are powerful, but nonetheless they are words. You have every right Frank. Pointing to your style and my own.....we have differing interests....I still find your mind to be vital and your comments thought provoking.....I was very pleased when you returned, and I don't want you to put much importance in the adolescent style PMs you have received. Your point of view is unique most of the time, and highly valued. Be well.......

I haven't read any comments of yours so I don't know why anyone would send you that note. But based on the number of views, comments and ratings your post received, you seem popular enough so was this a real question or did you need to feel the love? It's cool either way.

There's only one condition that would prompt me to say that Yes, Frank, it's high time for you to go: if you take to heart the comments of the hotdog who said you should go.

FUCK no you shouldn't go. I've been with you on the anti-Obama brigade. Good God we had to go through 8-years of Cheney/Bush and now we've had four months of Obama doing nothing but put out fire after fire and these people want his ass on a platter.

Stick around if only for ME! I'm all alone without you.

No offense to the person who sent you that but what business is it of theres? I think you know how to handle yourself. Real, true friends don't tell people to leave. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Hey, thanks everyone.

I was kinda hoping this would be the response…and that I wouldn’t open the thread and find a couple dozen “Yeah, get your ignorant ass the hell out of here.”

This thread, not a sixth grade thing at all, is also an opportunity to discuss the notion of welcoming comments from people who disagree with you big time. Frankly, I look forward to the disagreement posts much more than the agreement ones…and I suspect many people do. It is nice to have people with whom you agree…and who agree with you…but the disagreement posts are where the interesting conversation generates.

Gonna see where this leads.

One thing I did want to mention is that Dennis Loo and I have pretty much worked through our disagreements (he is NOT the person who wrote to me) and he has invited me to return to posting in his threads and blogs. I made a specific commitment to never ever mention his name in the headline of any thread I start…and I will live up to that commitment. I also commit to being polite (even when impassioned) in EVERY post I make in any blog or thread of his. He and I are gonna disagree big time…but I intend to see that my disagreement is not made disagreeably!

Obviously someone who feels very threatened by your trenchant, detailed observations on So You Think You Can Dance. Please don't go. I'd miss you over at the re-caps.

Having had the opportunity to take a little power nap, my revised comment is this: There is a certain element of whining to this post that you might want to think about. You strike me as a thick skinned guy, we all have opinions that others disagree with. So what? Your decision to leave or stay with OS is strictly your own. Don't bring us into it.

Frank - please stay. You made a comment in a post one time that struck me as one of the truest things ever written. I don't even remember the original post, but your comment was something to the effect that in the big scheme of things, we humans are just barely out of the tree and we are still basically savages with only the pretense of civility. That is probably the best explanation of human cruelty I have ever read, and it has stuck with me ever since. Anyway, because I don't read overtly political posts all that often I haven't been a regular guest to your spot, but I see you as a valuable member of this OPEN community and I would be sad to see you go.

Last time I checked, we still had a first amendment...........though who knows for how much longer. Stick around Frank. Sometimes I read your stuff and sometimes I don't, it's no ones place to tell you that you should leave.

Heed the teaching of Mort Sahl--"Is there anybody I haven't offended yet?"--and live your life accordingly. Although I haven't read your stuff that much, I've never seen anything out of bounds.

I wrote a post on the French-Italian soccer team head-butting incident on Foxsports.com and a guy threatened to come to America and kill me--and I was on his side!

Frank, while I may not agree with many of the positions you take, that in no way means that I think you should leave or that your opinions are unworthy. I have seen some contentious battles waged here, and quite a number of them did not even involve you in any way. I can't imagine what this person is talking about.

Stick around. You are just as entitled to stay here as anyone else. While I will readily admit that I have been pleased to see certain people leave, I never once encouraged them to leave. If I don't like something someone has to say, I simply don't read it. I never understood why more people didn't select that option in their mental menu.

Don't let the bastards grind you down Frank. Stick around.

Frank, under no circumstances should you leave. The person who wrote those notes to you is a coward.

I didn't know there was a board monitor who had the right to tell people they could post or that they should leave. As far as I knew this was an open forum, it's in the title, and people are allowed to express their opinions. I sometimes strongly disagree with someone but I would never demand they leave. I'd say if you are getting under someones skin it's because you are destroying their carefully crafted belief system and they don't like that. Stick around and see what happens.

"lining up en masse against your thoughts."

Thought Alignment. Now there's a constructive idea. Is it original, or did your PMer borrow the concept from Glenn Beck?

Frank,

I personally respect you and think that somebody trying to force you out, or whatever they’re trying to accomplish, is ridiculous. You and I disagree on a number of points, but I enjoy a healthy disagreement --- it makes me think and that is what I want out of my interactions on OS.

In all honesty, I have received a couple of PMs from individuals who were advocating against you because of your opinions. I expressed to those individuals that I enjoy your contributions, which often stir things up and get people talking and discussing issues from different perspectives.

Interestingly, while I have not had any real disagreements with those individuals, I have noticed their sudden current absence in my own blog. That absence may be merely coincidence, but it makes one wonder. Stick around, Frank.

Everybody's talking? Who is this mysterous "Everybody?" I'm with Gonzoid; if you're pissing people off, at least you know they're reading your stuff.

By no means should you leave.

Frank, I am here to be that thorn in the side of people that makes them pay attention to other viewpoints. My advice is stick around and give this person the pain in the ass that they so deserve.

Stay and continue to keep people thinking and engaging in lively, thoughtful debate.

For those of you who know me and who regularly interact with me…you undoubtedly realize that I am way, way too thick-skinned to be hustled out of OS by a suggestion that I leave. There was a time a while back when several people asked me to back off in a discussion with Amy…and I did. But that was something that really had to be done to ease the tensions that had built (very erroneously, in my opinion) over a thread that was purposefully provocative.

My purpose in starting this thread was twofold…and neither of the two items involved wanting to be whinny…or to react like a sixth grader…or even to seriously consider leaving OS.

On the one hand, I wanted to show the individual who wrote the PM that I was taking him seriously…that I was not being arbitrarily dismissive. I hope you all realize that, considering his response to my initial response to him, I was handling this part of the situation the only way I could. And I think that worked out the way I thought it would…I was confident regular OS ers would not buy into the notion that anyone should leave because of issue disagreement.


Secondly, I saw in the situation an opportunity to discuss the value of interacting with people with whom we strongly disagree…and of not resenting strongly held opposing views.

Truly, I treasure comments from people who are ardently opposed to any position I take. I seldom take strong positions on matters I cannot defend reasonably…so I am never put off or threatened by people taking me on.

There are times I wonder about the intensity of some of the replies…(I have in mind some of the responses to my having suggested allowing more time to pass before declaring Obama a failure)…but I know that occasionally I fall in love with a particular stance myself…and I am sure people on the other end of those arguments think I’m going overboard also. We all put lots of energy into defending positions.

Be that as it may…there are so many good comments in this thread about the need to have differing opinions…and about welcoming the fact that those opposing opinions are defended with vigor…that my work in that area is done for me. It also worked out the way I thought it would.

Hope you are all enjoying the discussion. I’m gonna stay tuned. Thanks for participating.

I'd like to think that OS must be kept free and open to anyone who desires to write. For one of us to say to another to leave is only an opinion.

The only who can make you leave is yourself.

No one should tell you what to do.

Whomever wrote that PM to you simply doesn't believe that the power of choice is still strong in the United States.

I would stay because you have the right to stay.

The choice shall always be yours...no one else's!!

Stay, Frank.

Some people are jerks; I think you found one.

Illigitimi non carborundum.

Don't leave! That message is just plain stupid. OS is all about freedom of speech.

What matters is what YOU think Frank. Fuck anybody else. Why the hell would you leave?

I wouldn't let one negative PM deter me. If I did, I wouldn't have lasted two days here!

Fuck 'em Frank- friends like that you don't need

Absolutely do NOT leave!!! That is preposterous!!! You are an intelligent, heart-filled, genuine contributor here, regardless of views, etc...! I am shocked at these PM's to you or should I be? Have seen a little of this before or heard of it from a few others and a even a few bits and pieces aimed at me as well! That was a shocker, too! Me? Queen of motherhood/gramma posts, with a few dirty haikus thrown in for good measure. Hate to be stereo-typed, ya know. Oh, and I have been known to throw out a few juicy opinionated comments to most any post, political or otherwise that has created a little stir. This is good. It's all good. Gotta keep stirring the pot! I'd be flat out bored with myself if everyone agreed with me (not likely!). Rather have a friendly slap on the behind for good humor! Virtual butt slapping occasionally would be just fine!

You stay, "Kimo Sabe!!!"

when I get a critical message I mark them as one of my "favorites"

Frank, I do not understand where this is coming from, but I am aware that there are some who are using the pm as a means of expressing adolescent thoughts.

Just leave them in their adolescence .................


............................ and stay with the adult expressions.

Frank, one of your threads and the responses it drew made me evaluate my own mixed feelings about Obama. I came to no conclusion, which is probably as it should be.

I was listening the other day to an NPR discussion about the blogosphere, and how it has become the liberal equivalent of talk radio. The discussion turned to why there is that distinction: radio talk shows for the right, blogs for the left. It was suggested that we on the left are inherently more rebellious, more independent, and tend to favor a forum where we can criticize our leaders and each other over one where a host tells us what he thinks and allows us to comment.

And I thought about Open Salon, and you in particular, and wondered if your reaction to criticism of Obama from the left is similar to my own. It's not that I don't see the truth in much of it and share a certain sense of betrayal; it's that I fear American liberalism is doomed as a political movement by the very qualities we admire in liberal thinkers. We aren't wired to support anyone the way Bush-Cheney were supported - or to target anyone for destruction the way the Clinton presidency was targeted by the right.

We cannot march in lock-step, so our time on the parade ground is bound to be limited.

It's what I love about liberals. It's why I despair for us.

But I digress...I meant to say, your being here and speaking your mind challenged at least one person to think (me). Thinking is a good thing, however unpleasant.

Yeesh! I know some people have expressed diagreement with things you've said on occasion (I did it myself once) but that's not the same as "lining up en masse against your thoughts." I don't think there's anyone here who wants you to go, except the drama queen who sent you that paranoid message!

I think that this is absurd. Honestly. Yes, we disagree on some things, agree on others. You are always very respectful. What kind of community will this be if all of us thought the same? Even though we've never actually exchanged comments, etc., I am glad that you're here.

This is absolutely ridiculous and inappropriate. This goes to the fact that people are so scared of those with different opinions. I believe it is a death knell if all voices are pushed to the non descript middle and sound the same. Keep on keeping on

Like Ms. Waters said - your valued opinion on SYTYCD is required here. It is part of your penance for other imagined misdeeds, remember?
To quote the Red Hot Cili Peppers from Freaky Stylin':

"I say fuck'em - just to see the look on their face,
Fuck'em just to see the look on their face."

I disagree with you a lot. But disagreements are a good thing. So, it would be a terrible mistake for you to leave. You have a right to be here and post away. Anyone telling you differently is WRONG. So, don't leave.

"I disagree with you but you can stay anyway." That's some ringing endorsement. If the person who PM'd you insists on being so mysterious, just forget it. Maybe they had a bad day and thought of you. If I'm not making myself clear, stay. There are some bad people here on OS. They have no intention of leaving. You seem good. You should stay.

Still sounds a bit juvenile, for someone to say that. What, every time someone disagrees with you, you're supposed to tuck tail and run and suck your thumb? Nah. I like ya. Stay.

You should definitely NOT go.
We are all entitled to our thoughts and opinions.
Jealousy is a curse.:)

Frank, I got something very similar months ago. Not a PM but a commenter repeatedly saying I need to watch it or I'd lose my reputation. (Of course, I'm thinking, "What effin' reputation? How can you tarnish something that barely exists or exist only in the ether?" or "Bring it on! I WANT a bad reputation! It's about time!")

Anyway, I digress. Eff this person. People do this stuff as a way to manipulate. It's highly passive aggressive. "But you still don't get it but that's OK." How passive aggressive is that. I guess that person must be of higher intelligence. Poor Frank. He just doesn't get it.

Thing is, there's nothing to get. This is an OPEN salon, an open forum. Speak your mind, dissent away! Or I'll dissent for you.

My point: don't engage.

Yeah, get your ignorant ass the hell out of here.


Kidding. Whoever said in the comments to tell the sender of the message to fuck off was spot on. I dunno what context the message was sent in, but telling you to go is way out of line.

stay frank. you always make interesting points in your posts and comments, whether i agree with them all or not.

Frank,

I've enjoyed your comments more than once. What you have here on Salon as far as complainers are frustrated losers without the talent to get an agent or the brains to self-publish.

You can blog or comment whatever, they can respond if they like or don't .... simple stuff- until some hater starts in.

You know haters, if you don't like a post, don't read it.

Keep em comin Sir!

This is like a test

Frank should
a) flounce
b) not flounce
c) not flounce, and take a nap

The correct answer is always c)

Oh no, someone speaks their mind and someone disagrees with them! Someone needs to leave 'cause you know "everyone's talking about it." People are lining up en masse? Jesus, as others have said - what is this grade school?

I have actually no idea what this flap is about, but I've seen this same thing crop up (and I'm sure you have as well, you've been here for quite awhile) for the past 10 or so months pretty regularly. It's a funny little microcosmic representation of the rest of the world, which is a complete mess. "Agree with me or my party line or be gone because you offended someone." Blarg.

Stick around - everyone needs a good poking with a stick sometimes, myself included. Grow up kids.

"he's flouncy flouncy flouncy flouncy
fun fun fun fun fun
But- the most wonderful thing about Frank A. is
He's the only one!"

The whole "salon" concept must mean nothing to this person and the other PMers. Why are they here? Talk radio sounds more like their cup of tea.

And I wonder if the PM thing is even that great an idea. I dared to voice my opinion on a post criticizing Obama (my very first comment on OS ever!), and boy, did I live to regret it. I even got a nasty PM out of the deal following my snarky response in my own defense (I reflexively am snarky when attacked - not my best quality, but the foaming-at-the-mouth PM was totally out of proportion). At least my experiences on this site can only improve here on out!

Any out-of-the-way attempt to make someone feel unwelcome in a public forum is indicative of insecurity and closed-mindedness. It takes away from the whole point of the community website. I'm glad you posted this.

In the words of Charlie Shultz's Lucy: aaaarrrrrggggh! I've only been on OS for three months and I'm embarrassed.

Okay, I'm here because I want to loosen up, shake things up and depart a bit from my early published writings, which were often gentle in the extreme(still working on that). But come on, people: notes to each other saying: you go! Personal attacks in the comments section? Blackballing other sites? WTF? How do you know what people are thinking if you don't let 'em speak? Anyone wonder about the relationship between our ongoing divisiveness in this country and our intolerance for other povs? God almighty this kind of crap pisses me off...okay, I'm breathing now. Actually, that felt good.

Frank, you gotta stay. And so do all the provocative people. If you don't like what other people are saying, you can skip their posts or you can learn to disagree in a civilized manner.

As you know, Frank, we are mostly in disagreement in terms of political sensibilities. Having said that, you leave? Well, hell no! OS is the Free Press. You are gonna need to toughen up, though. As you know, this can get to be one hot kitchen.

And to follow on with Stellaa...I don't want to be in The Emperor's New Clothes.

I'm sure there is one thing we can agree on: just isn't spelled with a y. And then should have been used rather than 'than' in those PM's. That right there, Frank. That right there.....

Good grief! No way should you go, Frank. Free speech is all about differing opinions & exchange of views. So you occasionally poke a stick into the bottom of the pond -- so what? We all know there's a lot of mud down there, & you just never know what will float to the surface.

Just ignore the internet troll(s). They're everywhere.

Frank, OpenSalon is a site which will only improve with contributors like you. Your post & comments are always a great addition to any debate.

I read this and have no idea what this person is talking about but understand your concern–just weird.

Always tease tease tease
You’re happy when I’m on my knees
One day is fine, next day is black
So if you want me off your back
Well come on and let me know
Should I stay or should I go?

Should I stay or should I go now?
Should I stay or should I go now?

- the Clash

No you should not go.

Well if this is 6th grade, I think you should run for class president.

Stay.

I'm crushed. No one ever tells me any gossip. Are you sure the PM wasn't about me? ;)

Maybe some day I'll get to be one of the cool kids. In the mean time:

What Verbal, T. S., Stellaa, JLeeDavis, Kind of Blue, You,
Extragent, ocularnervosa, 1WomansVu said.

BR

I personally find you challenging in your attempt to be reasonable about the issues, you don't just take things at face value or give the usual boring polite "how wonderful you write" kind of posts. That's a great quality that should be welcomed on a forum like this. Thanks! And don't quit the forum.

Of course you shouldn't go; there are always bullies around here. Just ignore them.

The title of your blog is Musings from the Iconoclasm. Since when does an iconoclast worry that the thoughts of others might be arrayed against him? Live your self-conception!

Thanks once again, EVERYONE.

As I've already said, I am not leaving...and never really planned to go. I did want an opportunity to air the complaint that had been sent to me...which I did. Thanks for your comments.