By the way, I note that Dr. Bramhall does not live in the United States. That does not detract from the argument I made here.

Frank

You're playing semantic games with the concept. Communists and fascists run “Police States”.

Socialists run “Police State Lite”. A police state is by definition a state that enforces the dictum that the state is more important than the individual, that “Social Justice” is more important than “Simple Justice”. Simple Justice is the protection of the rights and well being of each and every citizen ( some would go farther and say that it is the protection of the rights and well being of every living being). Social Justice is the notion that so long as some appointed (self or otherwise) score keeper makes sure that each of a number of special interest groups has it's alloted “share” of rights and well being, the plight of any individual being is of no importance.

“Police State” demands “obedience”, “Police State Lite” only wants “Compliance”. Not “do what you're told”, but “Don't do anything”

At a national level, we've been a police state for quite some little while. Tell the IRS that you stand on your constitutional right to human dignity and due process to not self incriminate by giving them your financial records- they won't even laugh- they won't even know what you are talking about.

Your buddy the Bamster ? Only the last in a long line of Elitists, who use the power of the government to accomplish their own ends.

And of course you can criticize the government- so long as no one is listening.
Try telling a cop you have a constitutional right to not be treated as a criminal from the moment he first takes note of you
Try taking pictures of a Cop or other Public Servant performing their “public” prerogatives.

http://www.pixiq.com/contributors/carlosmiller

Warning- do not try this without a lawyer and TV crew present.

The only way to control the government is to limit it strictly to the authority to RESPECTFULLY do only those things enumerated by the Constitution. It also wouldn't hurt to prosecute cops for their crimes against citizens, that they will tell you are “Just following policy, ma'am”

how's TSA working out for you? Fly anywhere lately?
With steel hips like I have?
I don't fly anymore, last time I did I almost got arrested for demanding to be groped by a Female officer, so that at least I could enjoy it.

Can't imagine where anyone would confuse the good old US of Obama with a Police State.

Hmmmm, Frank, this could become an interesting debate. Do we live in a "Police State"? No. Do we live in an "over-policed state"? Maybe. Do we live in a "safe enough state"? Nope.
And on, and on, and on...

Token said it very well. I know firsthand that Los Angeles county is a police county and it's very possible that California is a police state. I just can't be sure how bad it is elsewhere.
I was prosecuted, arrested, tried, and worse( a competency scheme out of Soviet Russia, coercive confinement) for doing nothing more than mildly asserting first amendment rights.
http://open.salon.com/blog/fernsy/2011/12/10/when_the_1_percent_occupied_innocent_people_in_la

From 2008 till now I have seen an non stop succession of abuses that make me wonder daily if I really am in America.

I agree that it appears that we are free to blog or whatever but I guarantee you that if what you say gets on the radar of someone who has the power to retaliateby using the force of the state-- you are in big trouble , and there will be no one there willing to risk themselves to help.

Token, Fernsy…you are both trivializing the concept “police state”…and you ought not to be. You both can speak your minds openly and freely…and in fact, you both do. I doubt you would even have dared do so in most of the police states that have existed on planet Earth.

Walter…you are probably closer to Token and Fernsy than you ought to be.

But that is how things go in a country as free as ours. We all speak our minds…and have no fear in doing so.

So what's your point Frank? We should be glad they aren't coming for us in the night? oh wait- That's the standard police tactic from drugs to unpaid parking tickets.

Is the point that since Obama's thugs can't be everywhere, and are still somewhat afraid of us, we're "free"? Don't even try to pretend he doesn't wish he could make us less so, he's said as much - ( Wish I could rule like a Chinese dictator) Of course China isn't a police state either, and neither is a Pork farm- ( nobody cares what the pigs say )

A "real" Police State isn't really possible hear- enough of us do have guns and would use them- Doesn't mean the Bamster can't dream, and the whiney little, "Well, this isn't REALLY" a police state "line" is meant to do what?, shame us into accepting the government fettering our arms and legs, because they cut off peoples heads in other places?

You come to me with a plea like that, all I see is a self (Obama) serving Judas goat trying to get the sheep to follow, by bleating about how much worse things could be.

So what's your point Frank? We should be glad they aren't coming for us in the night? oh wait- That's the standard police tactic from drugs to unpaid parking tickets.

Is the point that since Obama's thugs can't be everywhere, and are still somewhat afraid of us, we're "free"? Don't even try to pretend he doesn't wish he could make us less so, he's said as much - ( Wish I could rule like a Chinese dictator) Of course China isn't a police state either, and neither is a Pork farm- ( nobody cares what the pigs say )

A "real" Police State isn't really possible hear- enough of us do have guns and would use them- Doesn't mean the Bamster can't dream, and the whiney little, "Well, this isn't REALLY" a police state "line" is meant to do what?, shame us into accepting the government fettering our arms and legs, because they cut off peoples heads in other places?

You come to me with a plea like that, all I see is a self (Obama) serving Judas goat trying to get the sheep to follow, by bleating about how much worse things could be.

Token...does that truly sound like something you would say if it were a police state?

Would you have said that to Saddam Hussein in pre-invasion Iraq? Would you have said that in Uganda about Idi Amin when he was in power there? About Stalin in the USSR in the 1950's? About Mao in China when he was in power?

If you think this is a police state...or a fascist state, I suspect you would be in for a very big surprise if you ever take residence in a truly fascistic state...or in one that truly is a police state.

But I suspect you say the things you do because you realize you can do it with impunity here...in the free country in which you live (if you do live here).

I asked you what YOUR point is ? Are you say ing that because our bully only steals our lunch money, and other bullies beat the kids up, too, that ours isn't a bully? Frank, Barney Fife is Barney Fife wherever you run into him. The only thing that limits him is the scope of what he's allowed to get away with. Heinrich Himmler is just Barney Fife given full expression. Don't tell me that somehow, because I CAN, (note- not am allowed-) to call him out doesn't make The Barneys in charge of our Law Enforcement Professional Paradise any less petty tyrants. or any less a "police state" as I said, and as usual, you are playing with semantics, and it isn't worth taking you seriously.

Allowed to talk? Post a blog about wanting to "blow up" the president ( You know, as in a photo enlargement) - Go on. I dare you.

You wrote: I asked you what YOUR point is ?

My point is that this IS NOT a police state, Token.

And it isn’t.

I understand the things that are upsetting you, but they do not rise to the level of this being a police state.

Allowed to talk? Post a blog about wanting to "blow up" the president ( You know, as in a photo enlargement) - Go on. I dare you.


Token…calm down and let’s discuss this calmly.

No…I cannot threaten the president—and probably I cannot make veiled threats either. But because I would not be allowed to do that doesn’t make this a police state. I cannot go through red traffic lights if I choose without being ticketed. But that doesn’t make this a police state.

There are rules and regulations that make society able to function. Those rules and regulations do not make this a police state.

What is YOUR point…that because you do not have absolute freedom…you are living in a police state???

"Token, Fernsy…you are both trivializing the concept “police state”…and you ought not to be. You both can speak your minds openly and freely…and in fact, you both do. I doubt you would even have dared do so in most of the police states that have existed on planet Earth.

Walter…you are probably closer to Token and Fernsy than you ought to be."

ought to be . . . ought not to be . . . ought to be . . . ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

fRANK's life experiences are superior to all others -- all hail, fRANK

The guy's a moron, Token. Remember, apisa is NEVER wrong. EVERYONE else may be wrong, but not the fool on the hill.

It's an axiom at "Musings from the Iconoclasm," which really is "The View from the Toilet Bowl."

Never has anyone known nothing about so much and so much about nothing.

"I like to argue." "I am proud that I have been banned from at least three major . . . forums."

http://www.myspace.com/frankapisa/blog/264880422

That's fRANK.

They're coming for Token as we speak.

@Mark

Sometimes when I need a mindless break, I go bark at pit bulls. You always Know what to expect and are never disappointed.

WHENEVER You're looking for mindless, disconnected, misfiring neurons gone amuck, Token, just drop in at RANK o'pizza's place.

The old sack of sh*t seldom disappoints.

After all:

RANK's "a real nowhere man
Sitting in his nowhere land
Making all his nowhere plans for nobody

Doesn't have a point of view
knows not where he's going to . . ."

Personally I feel that if we already do live in a police state, it's a pretty brokedown one. The cameras are broke, and there isn't anyone watching; the alarms are broke, and there isn't anyone coming; and the politics is broke, and there isn't anyone that's going to save us. Lor' help us however if they ever get this heap up and running like they keep saying they want to. Probably though everything'll just keep getting junkier and junkier, and more and more of the "control" will be displaced onto fantasy: fantasies about getting rich; fantasies about getting lucky; fantasies about going someplace grand. Like heaven. Or Key Biscayne.

rate

Just for fun I found this at Wikipedia, thought we could pick out the ways in which we are typical and the ways we are not. So many juicy tidbits in both paragraphs!

"A police state is one in which the government exercises rigid and repressive controls over the social, economic and political life of the population. A police state typically exhibits elements of totalitarianism and social control, and there is usually little or no distinction between the law and the exercise of political power by the executive.

The inhabitants of a police state experience restrictions on their mobility, and on their freedom to express or communicate political or other views, which are subject to police monitoring or enforcement. Political control may be exerted by means of a secret police force which operates outside the boundaries normally imposed by a constitutional state.[3]"

Enjoy!

Hi Frank. Whether we live in the classic definition of a police state or not is irrevelant, given that democracy in this country, to the extent it ever existed here, is dead. The levers of power in the USA are controlled by corporate interests, and that is reflected in the fact that our two-party system dictates we must "choose" between the Corporate Party and the Corporate Party Lite. Get back with me about freedom or the lack thereof when we have a genuine third-party alternative to the crapulous choices we have now, but in the meantime there's a book I highly recommend so you and I can have something to discuss rationally rather than picking at each other on OS. . It's called Democracy Inc. by Sheldon Wolin; here's an excerpt from an online review:

To reduce a complex argument to its bare bones, since the Depression, the twin forces of managed democracy and Superpower have opened the way for something new under the sun: "inverted totalitarianism," a form every bit as totalistic as the classical version but one based on internalized co-optation, the appearance of freedom, political disengagement rather than mass mobilization, and relying more on "private media" than on public agencies to disseminate propaganda that reinforces the official version of events. It is inverted because it does not require the use of coercion, police power and a messianic ideology as in the Nazi, Fascist and Stalinist versions (although note that the United States has the highest percentage of its citizens in prison -- 751 per 100,000 people -- of any nation on Earth). According to Wolin, inverted totalitarianism has "emerged imperceptibly, unpremeditatedly, and in seeming unbroken continuity with the nation's political traditions."

The genius of our inverted totalitarian system "lies in wielding total power without appearing to, without establishing concentration camps, or enforcing ideological uniformity, or forcibly suppressing dissident elements so long as they remain ineffectual. A demotion in the status and stature of the 'sovereign people' to patient subjects is symptomatic of systemic change, from democracy as a method of 'popularizing' power to democracy as a brand name for a product marketable at home and marketable abroad. The new system, inverted totalitarianism, is one that professes the opposite of what, in fact, it is. The United States has become the showcase of how democracy can be managed without appearing to be suppressed."


I recommend that we stop wasting our time discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and instead spend time reclaiming our nation from anti-democratic forces. How do we do that? I'm not sure yet, but I know it doesn't involve being an apologist for the Democratic Party.

nanatehay and I can find a lot of things to fight about, but he sounds as if he's found a book worth reading- The notion that we are reduced from active citizens to passive subjects just about sums it up.

Perhaps there are degrees but it's nothing like the 80s police states I was in like Chile, Argentina, Paraguay, Guatemala and the USSR.

My ex, an Argentine woman who was politically active during their military dictatorship, told me about how they would hold political meetings. Someone she trusted would approach her in a cafe or on the street. He'd tell her to be on a certain block on a certain date at a certain time. Then she'd get picked up by someone she usually didn't know. He'd take her to someone's house who she usually didn't know. They'd have a meeting where the lights were dim and you couldn't tell who most of the other attendees were. Then the guy who picked her up would drop her at some convenient transit stop. That's a police state.

Token; word.

l'Heure Bleue, I read that Wikipedia piece prior to commenting to the idiot, but felt that he was too moronic to comprehend it.

Besides, he is busy fulfilling his civic duty by pelting news publications on important issues such as should cats be leashed or unleashed.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste-thank goodness apisa's got none to waste.

Good book (and suggestion), Nana, but way above the moron's pay grade.

Hey, Dandylion…thanks for stopping in. I doubt anyone is coming for Token…I think he is safe here no matter what he says.

Dr. Lee…thank you for commenting. I got a kick out of your comment. It brought to mind the comment often made in discussions of Intelligent Design. “This is INTELLIGENT design?” If this is a police state, it is very poorly policed, that is for sure, because most police states have nobody daring to confront the leaders…and in our country, damn near everybody confronts them brazenly…especially the ones here on the Internet who cry most about loss of freedom!

Bleue…thanks for the citation. For sure there are elements of the description of police state that we can see in our society, but I think for the most part, we are very, very far away from that condition.

Hey Nana. Thanks for posting. I know our last discussion ended poorly.

Hi Frank. Whether we live in the classic definition of a police state or not is irrevelant, given that democracy in this country, to the extent it ever existed here, is dead.

I cannot concede that it is dead. Frankly, I think we enjoy more of the democratic process in this country than any society has ever enjoyed on planet Earth. I think we have become spoiled by our freedom…expecting more and more…when restraints are required to keep such a complex society functioning reasonably. Perhaps that is the problem. Perhaps the Balkanization of the America is the way to less moaning and groaning—(and something that might be closer to coming than most would be willing to acknowledge!) In any case, you are as free to express yourself today in this America as any person has ever been free to express self anywhere else or at any other time…and chances are, even freer!

The levers of power in the USA are controlled by corporate interests, and that is reflected in the fact that our two-party system dictates we must "choose" between the Corporate Party and the Corporate Party Lite.

Money has HUGE influence…it always has…it always will. Thoughts of doing away with that are like thoughts of doing away with gravity. Keeping it in control is the key to a successful representative democracy…and I think we are doing about as good a job of that as possible. But we cannot live in a fantasy world about that. I fail to see how the notion of “third parties” is proffered so often as a solution to the perceived problems. To suspect that the politicians of some other parties will be immune to the lure of corruption power engenders is absurd; to suppose third parties will not fall pawn to power and money brokers is equally absurd. We have got to get as much as possible out of what is going to be…and save as much personal freedom as possible commensurate with having needed restraints to have society function reasonably.

I appreciate the book suggestion, but truly I do not have time for it right now. In any case, reading a book written by someone who has a personal bias may not be the best way to go. If I were to read a book written by Token, Dr. Bramhall, Libby, or you…I doubt I would be getting a neutral perspective.

Hope you continue the discussion without my reading the book.

Token…if you and Nana want to suppose we are “reduced from active citizens to passive subjects”…and that “just about sums it up”…I guess there is nothing I can do.

I can tell you this though. I sure as hell am not reduced from active citizen to passive subject…and I sure as hell do not see either of you (or the majority of people posting here in OS) as being so disposed. Respectfully as I can say this: I think you people are just over stating the case…HUGELY.

Abrawang…thanks for that. Of course there is a large difference between a true police state…and the kind of thing happening in our country right now that so bothers the people discussing it here. I respect them for defending freedom of expression…but I feel I am doing that same thing by continuing to express myself loudly and clearly. Chances are we will not have a meeting of the minds here…BUT THAT IS THE WAY THINGS USUALLY WORK IN A FREE SOCIETY.

So, to sum up, because other people are living in the cesspit of a two hole Kibo (anyone else remember that term from summer camp?) at a jalapeño chili eating contest, we should be grateful that our government only once or twice a day pisses down our neck and tells us it's raining? So we should praise our masters for their restraint?

The more insidious form of police state is the one that lulls you to sleep so that you don't act- (We're doing it all for your own good, after all)

Once again, it's always pleasant playing semantic games with you, Frank. I'm still working on the "Pitt Bull" to English dictionary, thanks for the input.

All I am saying, Token, is that we are not living in a police state...and if you were living in a police state, I doubt you would be saying most of what you are saying.

Glad you are taking the discussion so seriously--and responding in such a responsible way.

Frank, it seems to me you are setting this up as a yes/no question. I agree with Nanatehay and Token. I think the 99% of our population is a sleeping giant that the 1% wants to keep asleep or drowsy enuf to consume and to go along with the status quo. The police are available to take care of hard-core trouble makers who would stir the giant and rouse it to action. To that degree I would say we are an incipient police state and I suspect the mechanics for a more aggressive state discipline are being developed and readied, and if we allow the Republicans to take complete control of the federal government, then we will see more and more jackboots.

Or rather we will hear the jackboots stomping up more stairs.

Thanks for commenting, Chicken.

Frank, it seems to me you are setting this up as a yes/no question. I agree with Nanatehay and Token. I think the 99% of our population is a sleeping giant that the 1% wants to keep asleep or drowsy enuf to consume and to go along with the status quo. The police are available to take care of hard-core trouble makers who would stir the giant and rouse it to action.

Okay. But if so, we sure as hell are one of the most incompetent police states ever. Truly the “Gang that Couldn’t Shoot Straight”, because I see rabble-rousers of formidable force yelling and screaming every single day.

I post on OS…a HOT BED of people constantly warning of police state tactics…constantly berating the powers that be…constantly agitating for people to rise up and squash the supposed dangers.

Do you see what I am saying, Chicken?

Can you imagine this kind of stuff going on in China right now? How about in Maoist China? Stalinist USSR? Peronista Argentina? Franco’s Spain? Idi Amin’s Uganda?

Just trying to be real here, Chicken. I understand your comment…and appreciate the “yes/no” observation. But some of the people here honestly are calling us a police state NOW…and saying our democracy has fallen.

It hasn’t…and I see absolutely no indication that any kind of fall is imminent…even if someone like Gingrich accidentally got into the Oval Office.

My question of record holds: Are we a Police State?

And my emphatic answer is NO. I understand that intelligent people can disagree—although I would ask any intelligent person disagreeing to reconsider.

We live in a democracy…under relative freedom. It is okay to disagree…and to disagree strongly.

The proof of a police state is the tactics it uses.
Here's a test.

Write a blog in which, as a fanatic Obama fan, you express the wish to plaster the walls of all the buildings in the next town he is scheduled to visit with huge posters of the 'bamster. Wax poetic about "blowing up" the president to huge proportions. discuss means of "plastering him all over the sides of the buildings!" be rapturous about how much you would like to "Blow up" his car, his airplane, his wife, his kids, and plaster them all over the downtown of his next campaign stop!

Not a bit of a threat made or implied.
Simply the enthusiasm of a rabid supporter.
Go on Frank.
post the Blog.
I dare you.

Thought of another one:

Fly somewhere.
At the airport, refuse to go through the naked scanner
Insist that your "pat-down" be given to you by a female TSA agent, because you don't want any "buddy" but you to receive any pleasure from it.

Try to call your lawyer from "detention' You will find that you are not "in custody", you just won't be allowed to leave.

Double dog dare you

another

Have a neighbor phone in an anonymous tip to the DEA that you are dealing drugs from your home, and are known to be armed and dangerous.

When armed men come crashing through your doors in the wee hours of the morning, shooting your dogs, and throwing your your wife and children to the floor and handcuffing them, come downstairs holding a firearm as if you actually meant to protect your house from unidentified nocturnal intruders, as is your legal and constitutional right.

triple dog dare you

Token...try to get control of yourself.

Of course the authorities are not going to take lightly to someone threatening the president.

That is not a characteristic just of a police state...it is the characteristic of a reasonable, democratic state also. Because we do not allow people to threaten elected officials does not make us a police state.

Doing other illegal things...like refusing pat downs...or dealing in drugs is reasonable.

And stop with the double and triple darings. It sounds childish...and you are above that.

Go to a police state and say, "Fuck the leader...he is a jerkoff." Try that...go to North Korea and say, "Fuck the leader...he is a jerkoff."

They will throw you into a dungeon for the rest of your life.

But if, here in America, you were to say, "Fuck Barack Obama...he is a jerkoff"--nothing would happen.

Do you really not understand that...or are you so wedded to your idea that you cannot acknowledge it?

Gosh Frank, all you have to do is define Police State Tactics as "not police state tactics", and you prove your point- why didn't I think of that?

First and last- to talk about "Blowing Up" a photograph of the president to plaster over the sides of a building is in no way a "threat"

That you choose to allow the Police State to interpret it as one, and frighten you into not discussing such a thing in your blog says all that needs to be said-

put up or shut up
Post a blog about "Blowing Up" the President and plastering him all over the buildings of his next campaign stop. Surely someone as facile with words as yourself couldn't actually be afraid that his right to express his desire to honor his idol might be violated by the benign agents of the government misinterpreting it as a threat and actually oppressing you in some way??

Put up or shut up- post the blog

Token…I will do better than that.

I will do what you apparently want me to do.

Token…I acknowledge that you are an exceedingly brave man…willing to stand up to the formidable dangers of speaking your mind freely here in police state America. I honor you for your valor of actually saying what you have on your mind, despite the enormous danger you face for doing so. I am sure the Founding Fathers would be delighted to know that you are doing what they did…putting your life on the line and standing up to the great menaces and perils this terrible police state present to men of your incredible valor.

Thank you, Token, for speaking up with such courage, bravery, and fearlessness.



How was that, Token?

Oh…you might show a bit more spine by using your real name in your posts. But I understand that the most heroic defenders of freedom often show a tiny bit of discretion.

Gotta go now, Frank, wife wants me to watch Project Runway-
It's been real. let me know when you do the post.

Other than that the government looks at all our internet traffic, telephone calls, and bank transactions. And now that the POTUS can indefinitely detain or kill anyone he wants to -- no??????????

Fear not, ONL. The idiot will offer some inane response.

If You're lucky, he'll play his sociopathic passive-aggressive personality disorder game, by thanking You for commenting, before offering some of the same old bullish*t he's been braying for years now.

The guy is really a sick f*ck and getting sicker by the day.

OldNewLefty…I can see that you, like Token, are very, very afraid to say what you have to say here in the dreaded police state of America. Amazing—post after post excoriating the leaders and government of this country from people claiming it is a police state. Such brave individuals, indeed!

Sad actually.

We live in what is arguably the freest society that has ever existed on our planet…and not only do we have people complaining we are not free enough—we have some who actually want to call it a police state!

Some here do not deserve the freedom they have—they are not worthy of it; they scorn it rather than appreciate it. And in so doing, they trivialize the suffering people who have actually lived in police states have endured.

But since it is such a free society, you folks are free to piss on it…so piss away.

As my latest blog post indicates: Only frank a-pisser understandss the truth.

Piss off, COCKroach.

Do we live in a police state equivalent to 20th century totalitarian nations? No.

That said, do we have fewer political liberties than we once did, as a result of constant war and repeated geopolitical and ideological conflict? Are we a more monitored and regulated society, due to heightened fears of radicalism and terrorism? I would say yes.

These are tough times. One the one hand, we are definately seeing a rise of extremism on both the right and left side of the political spectrum, as well as in the middle. The gvt reacts to this by increasing surveillance and increasing the "soft power" of the police to regulate and pre-empt social unrest. This is not as overtly repressive as the methods used by the Soviets or Fascists, but in a way, its more effective, because its better at deflating unrest, precisely because its more peaceful.

So, in a way, its wierder. The state is better able to deflect criticism and sustain its legitimacy and abuse of power than prior regimes, precisely because it doesn't repress and use violence against its own citizens the way totalitarians did. On the other hand, its cleverness in using a soft-hand allows it to perpetuate a continuous series of abuses and manipulations. For example, over-regulating free speech through time, place manner regulations and preventing OWS protesters from using blankets (but allowing them to have tents) in Washington, DC.

Soft things. Its nowhere near the Stasi, KGB or Gestapo, but its still obnoxious. And its not exactly in keeping with the spirit of the first amendment, either.

Thanks for the comment, RW.

We are living in a more complex world…and more complex solutions are necessary to allow society to function reasonably…and for security to be as assured as possible.

If one lived in a small society with houses spaced very far apart…one could reasonably expect a great deal more personal freedom than can easily be accommodated in a more complex society with a greater, more concentrated population.

So in one way, it can be argued that we are less free now than at some past time…although when you wrote, And its not exactly in keeping with the spirit of the first amendment, either…

…I doubt you’d get many black people to agree with you.

And certainly limits can reasonably be placed on “free speech”…such as limiting the kinds of things the Occupy movement can do. I certainly would call in the police if the Occupy people decided they wanted to occupy my living room…and in a sense, by “occupying” certain parks over long periods of times, they ARE occupying areas I have a right to also.

Security concerns definitely are infringing on some personal freedom, but huge numbers of Americans are asking that those measures be taken because they have legitimate security concerns.

In any case, I would appreciate your expressed take on the question of the thread, which is not “Do we live in a police state equivalent to 20th century totalitarian nations?”…but rather, “Do we live in a police state?”

Do you, RW, feel afraid to offer your views on government, politicians, the president?

Is this a police state right we live in?

The doc lives on a commune in New Zealand, and regardless, her blogs aren't seen by enough people to warrant the kind of clean up that coming after her, a smart, peaceful, WHITE woman would precipitate.

American police lead fascism will not, and DOES NOT, look like Nazi Germany, North Korea, or any other fascist state which has existed in the past or does exist today.

We don't like terrorists, right? Except, we are now actively targeting random civilians in bombing attacks (you can read about it in the parent site to this one, Salon.com).

TARGETING RANDOM CIVILIANS IN BOMBING ATTACKS. Our equipment is more high tech, and there's no one attached to it with the balls to kill themselves over something they believe in, but we are doing the same thing the so-called terrorists (where are they again? I remember the ones from 10 years ago, but where are the new ones we're fighting? Are we "fighting them there so we don't have to fight them here? So that the next silver bullet isn't a mushroom cloud?

We torture our own citizens. We now assassinate our own citizens (and, our president brags about it, and that he's got a long list with more people he's gonna kill).

We're passing laws around indefinite detention with no habius corpus. Certain people with certain ethnic backgrounds MUST, AT ALL TIMES, CARRY THEIR IDENTIFICATION PAPERS WITH THEM.


What more fucking evidence do you need? The police knocking down your door looking for your gay lover?

Frank, I speak up because the government has been keeping book on me since 1967. With the PATRIOT Act, the rest of America caught up with me. I have used my surveillance as jui jistsu, and there have been a number of times where I came very close to being in big trouble with the government. Perhaps through a combination of luck and skill, I'm still here.

However, the Total Information Awareness society is very intimidating to a huge percentage of people, keeping them out of th political process. And meanwhile, there are always more circuses (We love our infotainment!).

You should look up the concept of repressive tolerance. It describes our imitation democracy to a tee. No, we're not living in Stalinist Russia, or Nazi Germany. However, our freedom and liberty has been severely constrained in the last 15 years. We're much closer to Pakistan, Franco Spain, and Iran than we used to be.

So am I supposed to be happy living here in the Land of Freedom?

MalcolmXY…thanks for commenting…and for helping make my point. There is absolutely NO WAY you would be able to write what you wrote there in a police state. But, this is a free country, and you certainly are free to disagree with me…and with the government if you choose.

OldNewLefty…YES…you should be happy. You should consider yourself damn lucky to be living in this kind of freedom...rather than joining in all the moaning and groaning. You are able to speak your mind…to say what you have to say with more freedom than any people have ever had on the planet. Be happy! Be thankful.

Yes, be vigilant. Freedom always has to be guarded. But to suggest that we are like Franco’s Spain, Iran, or Pakistan goes beyond absurdity.

But this is a free country…and you are free to say whatever you want. So do it.

The insanity NEVER ends at "Musings from the Iconoclasm."

only because I don't matter.

You really are blind, aren't you. Just because the SS aren't knocking down my door because the big brother listening devices sounded off in my discontent doesn't mean that this version of what we now find ourselves in isn't a police state.

The minute I do talk enough smack, AND matter enough, they got a sweet little cell in the middle of (literally) bum-fuck Egypt waiting for me.

Or, if I (rightfully, by the language and intent of the constitution and the men who wrote it) that by assassinating an American citizen, our government has become so corrupt and lawless that the tree of liberty once again needs bathed in a little thick, red stuff AND enough people listened to me that I posed some kind of threat to these greedy, lawless pricks and their corporate masters, do you have ANY idea the kind of

A. Character Assassination I would be subject to, or B

B. The BS crimes I would be charged with and then held without trial because of?

You should ask Daniel Ellsberg just how "free" we are these days. Thank friggin' God he was the squeaky-clean boyscout that he was or else Gravel probably wouldn't have had the balls to read the pentagon papers into the record as part of his filibuster at the time.

I am dark and you are light

you are blind as a bat and I have sight...

http://en.fooooo.com/w/b4c7df1123edf5aedfd0a065324fa6dc

being a freakish clown has its privileges...being a shill does as well, I suppose. I'm just glad I'm not doing it.

A big thank you!

You rock!

Rated.

By the way - I know that I'll be called sanctimonious by the people who like to name call here, but I also find it a real shame that the actual victims of different police states in the past and the present are trivialized in this manner. I suspect, say, a Gulag prisoner sent to a camp because of something he wrote in a personal letter for example, would have been thrilled to live in the USA. And many of them DID run to that country as soon as they got a chance. I trust they knew what they were doing.

Now we'll wait for MarkinJapan to have a fit.

http://youtu.be/iJQ6n9ry-Jg Please everyone watch this video about Ramarley Graham. It's sickening & happened in Feb. 2012. But Please Don't Stop There. Contact Mike Bloomberg at either Twitter @MikeBloomberg or call his office at 212-NEW-YORK and tell him this has to stop by Legalizing. This is a police state and this video proves it.

Thank you, Barbara Joanne.

Thanks to all the people who disagree with me also.

The funny thing is...if this really were a police state...most of the negative comments would not be here. Only in a free society are people able to take their government to task to the point of calling it a "police state."