Füsun A

AN ECLECTIC WRITER

FusunA

FusunA
Location
Montréal, CANADA
Birthday
January 12
Title
Freelance Writer - jack of all genres;master of none.
Company
warm and genuine
Bio
I divorced my full time career of teaching after 25 years, because meanwhile I fell in love with freelance writing. Ever since, I decided to legitimize my ten-year fling which started in the new millennium. Author of: "WILL OF MY OWN - A Memoir" Available at all major book outlets. For a preview please visit: http://www.dictionmatters.com/

MY RECENT POSTS

MARCH 20, 2010 4:21PM

Manners and Plagiarism on OPEN SALON

Rate: 40 Flag

Co-Authored

by

Füsun Atalay  &  Kit Duncan

Plagiarism has been defined in so many different and subtle ways that it is only natural, especially for a novice writer, to understand exactly what it is, or whether s/he is consciously plagiarizing. Committing plagiarism is a serious act and, despite all the variations of its definitions, it can be avoided by adopting and following a few basic guidelines.

In a handout distributed by the University of North Carolina's Writing Center, plagiarism is defined as "the deliberate or reckless representation of another's words, thoughts, or ideas as one's own without attribution in connection with submission of academic work, whether graded or otherwise."

Most of us who contribute to Open Salon know this. Many also know that, as in every professional field, some ideas are considered to be "common knowledge." But what if you are writing about a topic which you do not know much and are learning as you go along? If you did not know the information before you wrote it then that information was not common knowledge to you. In that case, you must acknowledge the source(s) where you found it.

Sometimes we inadvertently tend to make notes as we go along and then paraphrase someone else's ideas into our own words. Remember that paraphrasing by merely changing a couple of words here and there, or rearranging the sentence structure in your own way, does not save you from plagiarism.

The best way to be sure that you have not infringed on any intellectual property or copyright nor be accused of stealing something that is not your own work is to accredit it at the beginning of your work by stating the source(s) from which it comes, or you were inspired.

Now, a simple Plagiarism 101 such as this hopefully will not be taken as an affrontery to the esteemed writers of Open Salon, who already know and practice the rules. It is not meant for them anyway. This is a general post for anyone who wishes to read and keep for future reference. It is written in the spirit of preventing any future singling out of individuals, or finger pointing to ridicule decent contributors whose contributions are read and enjoyed by many; or create divisions on Open Salon where people come with the hope of finding a heaven for writing and getting constructive feedback, rather than being singled out, kicked around, demanded apologies, and ostracised for them because they are not long enough in word count.

A writer is someone who writes. Period.

A blogger is someone who is writing, using the blog as a forum for posting what he or she has written. Period.

Everyone who blogs on OS is writing. All bloggers on OS are writers. Period.

There are as many different styles of writing as there are individuals who write. Most of us, from time to time, post blogs with typos, grammatical errors, misspellings. Sometimes we post opinions with which others disagree. Sometimes we inadvertently (or perhaps even deliberately) post misinformation. Sometimes we fail to communicate ourselves with the clarity we had hoped.

And sometimes we do not give appropriate credit where credit is due.

Some folks call this plagiarism. Perhaps it is. But there is a world of difference between someone who deliberately passes off someone else’s work as his/her own, and someone who simply doesn’t take the time to include the sources.

When we stumble, either in our writing or in other areas of our life, most of us would prefer to learn rather than mire about in ignorance. Most of us do not learn well when we are getting slapped upside the head, kicked in the gut, called names, or in any way treated in an inhumane manner. Most of us do not learn well when we are publicly reviled or ridiculed.

If we feel we must respond to someone’s postings, let us be humane about it. If they refuse to follow our recommendations, let us be gracious.

When you post blogs or comments, do so with several questions in mind. What would Mom think of me if she read what I wrote? What would my children and grandchildren think of me if they read what I wrote? And finally, what do I think of myself when I read what I wrote?

In conclusion, let us all remember what M Chariot wrote in his stellar post about WRATH:

"Wrath automatically focuses on the most negative interpretation of events; it trades in contempt, sneers at hope. Confronted with innocence, the wrathful respond with sarcasm. Dialogue? Wrath shouts louder so as to drown it out. The wrathful embrace the uncompromising attitude that you "Go Fuck Yourself". Wrath incites mobs and underlines the motivation to pointless - and endless – war."

Peace to all.

 

 

 

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Open for comments.
I resent the reasonable tone of this post:P
Do you mind if I stand here, cheer, and applaud some Fusun??
Because this is an excellent piece, well written, and exactly what I would expect from you.
THANK YOU!!
nana - me, too!!!

FusunA - thanks for allowing me to be a part of your excellent post. ~r!
May I quote you? ;)

Thank you both for shedding light, not heat, and for trying to make something very trying into a teaching moment.
I adore you both, FusunA and Kit.

No one wins online fights. State your piece, twice if you have to, then let it lie. Be fierce with your thinking, not with each other.

All of those points stolen from Greg Correll and various pieces of his work. :) See, I learn! Look at me, giving credit.
I can get behind this 100%.
So if I copy an entire, multi sentence paragraph from a copyrighted article, word for word, and include it in my blog post just as if I had written it myself, this was merely oversight?

It's one thing to forget to add" sourced from Wikipedia", or "the Wikipedia site says...," it's another thing entirely to copy whole paragraphs of an article as scanner did, and pass it off as his words.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2173/in-ricky-nelsons-garden-party-who-is-mr-hughes

That was not an "oversight." And he has done it before, on other posts. It's stealing and it is just not right.
Sorry Kit. I just saw the that part of this was yours too.
Both of you are excellent in my mind here. The voice of reason indeed.
And where the fuck did Mr Straight Dope get his material?

Try http://www.ricknelson.com/bio.htm.

For people that are hung up on the "FACTS" of the matter. And where did the stuff on http://www.ricknelson.com/bio.htm come from? I dunno.

Where are the self appointed fact checker's fact checkers? Missing in action?
LOL, Mission! Well, FusunA is the driving force behind this post - she just let me hitch a ride. It honors me to share a byline with her!
(FusunA: this is NOT directed at your post. i have posted it elsewhere and wanted to reiterate it here. since i am quoting myself i don't feel the need to cite sources, tho i am probably treading on thin ice...)

scanner fucked up big time with his headline post. as fox said, it DID cross a line.
but so have others.
i don't know how any of the principles in this can stand it any longer. it is all dripping and drowning in sanctimony, there are posts here, posts there, here a post, there a post, everywhere a post post...

i have a stomach ache and i am just an observer. for christ's sake. there are people dying, starving, killing in this world. sometimes you just have to cut bait and move on.

none of you are ever going to have a beer with obama at the whitehouse so live with it, nurse your wounded egos and move the fuck on.
Sorry for using the "F" word.
R
Nanathehay
Mission
Pilgrim
Kit
She Blogs
Jeanette
Thank you for your open mindedness and understanding the point.
@fusun & kit: thank you for the voice of reason and grace in the midst of turmoil and the sheer love of it. it's gotten to the point where the point has been lost or broken off or something.
I thank you for this. I sometimes repeat something said here and wonder do I need put that in quotes. It seems I should. I had no real idea of how to mark what was someone else's. Being 57 and not being in school for many, many, many years I have forgotten the protocol so hopefully this doesn't ever happen to me. Thank you for spelling it out so gracefully.
"When we stumble, either in our writing or in other areas of our life, most of us would prefer to learn rather than mire about in ignorance. Most of us do not learn well when we are getting slapped upside the head, kicked in the gut, called names, or in any way treated in an inhumane manner. Most of us do not learn well when we are publicly reviled or ridiculed." - FusunA

How an innocent, unpaid essay about Ricky Nelson resulted in a shit-flinging dogfight is entirely beyond the understanding of this commentor. I should hope that our most passionate responses might be directed at serious expressions of human malevolence.

Thank you for bringing a little light to the situation.
MissingK8: I'm sorry for your problems. This post is not for people with wounded egos OR for egos at all for that matter. They are nor even welcome here and they saty away. This is a teaching post for those who are willing to learn and make peace. There was no need for you to repeat yourself over and over again. We've read what's been going on, and that's why we felt a civil post like this was needed.
Thank you, M Chariot. The credit for what you've quoted goes to Kit Duncan, not me.
fusun: i apologise. my comment was repeated once.
it was intended for those making post after post after post. it was in support of your premise. they are nursing their egos. i have no dog in this fight, so my ego is not a question here.
delete my comment if you so choose to.
as for my problems, they have nothing to do with this situation.
Very well said, Fusun & Kit. Thank you. r
Yeah, what Nana said! What's with this reasonable shit??????

BTW, did you get written permission to use that stuff from North Carolina? Huh? Huh? ;-|

Other than those two little questions, I thought this was an excellent, enlightening post! (r)
Thank you, FusunA, not just for this post, but for remaining the voice of reason throughout the --er--debate. I have only been on OS for about a month, and up until today, I was ecstatic about the variety of styles, the supportive top-rated writers and what I perceived as casual comaraderie. Today I got nervous and was extremely disappointed to have stumbled into yet another opportunity to watch adults behaving badly. I can't wait for this to blow over, but I feel as if I have lost my virginity -- again!
LintheSoutheast: Thank you for reading this post. And please do not allow today's unfortunate event discourage you. I witnessed another one last month, and survived it. In due time you'll know the good eggs from the bad ones. Trust me, the former outnumber the latter.
Nick
MissingK8
LL2
M. Chariot
trilogy
ClarkK
Thank you for your open mindedness and seeing the point.
Yes the good ones do outweigh the bad ones Fusun. I am sorry this has happened here again and again.
I am just here to write and make comments on the good ones. It gets old, these personal attacks.
I try to avoid the bad ones at all cost. This is a great place. I have been here since the get go.
My dear ladies:

This is one of the most reasonable, well-written, elegant, cohesive posts I've read on my sojourn on OS.
There has, it seems, been some kind of hullabaloo in OS that I thankfully missed because real life got in the way of my reading.
I'm extremely glad what I got to read was your post instead.

And one cannot stress the importance of Monsieur Chariot's post. Thank you also for that.
Rated for its rational and calm approach to education on a subject.
Both of you, well done.
The always gracious Monsieur Chariot said it better than I can.
I used to be really worried that people would steal my ideas, but then I realised that I have so many ideas that if people steal a few of them, that's really their loss.

I have ideas to spare (not all of them good), but if they can't come up with something on their own, then they have a lifetime of dishonesty and plagerism ahead of them! And that's just sad.

A good reminder to those who need to cite!
I have a suggestion: Zotero. It allows the user to grab information from the web, organize and annotate it (works with Firefox and Chrome, not IE). So you get an article from a webzine or the NYT online or even wikipedia. The author & citation information is saved. You add your own notes that remain associated with the work you saved. Then you start writing a piece, and you collect all the references you are using into a collection called "my current OS post". As you are writing, and reviewing the pieces you collected in your research, you can drag and drop citations into your work. Or create a bibliography with a click. Overkill? better than underkill, I say.
Well done and rated!
If--and tread lightly, here--many of my *original* ideas have been reworded and reposted on OS just weeks later and received great success; it would have only made me prouder and happier. Hell, no one is making money on OS. Plus all the posts are dated and documented--tread lightly and take heed here too.

Therefore, before one accuses others of being bad writers or plagiarists, one should take a deep breath and ask oneself this. Am I qualified to judge other writers? Have I ever wrote an original idea?
Since this is a blog, why doesn't one respect the readers' judgment? And why doesn't one aspire to acquire the kindness and class of bloggers like Fusun...and well, my man, scanner.

Rated for class.
Mission
v. seijo
Kind of Blue
K. Manky
nonresidentitalien
xenonlit
Thank you for your open mindedness and understanding the point of this post.
Thoth: Thank you for your erudition, kindness and chivarly, my friend.
Ya'll done good. Seriously - although folks may differ in their definitions of writer/blogger, etc., I happen to agree with this on all counts. Therefore I won't try to ennumerate my agreement, especially since there is contention in the air, and I'm likely to completely step in it by accident, and I'm just not in the mood for hair-splitting today.
Thoth and FusanA -- Amen and Amen. I'm new to OS and didn't realize it was so serious. I thought maybe, it was a place to vent, to pontificate, to let loose via writing some inocuous blogs. I didn't know people were going to get so -- anal -- Yes we all need to give credit but jeez people -- they are about to vote on health care reform --
excellent post. Well written. Thanks Funsuna and Kit
You've made it sound so simple. A wonderful post, thank you for sharing your thoughts. It was well said and I agree with your "simplistic sane suggestions." -- "Write ON!"
excellent post. Well written. Thanks Funsuna and Kit
Well stated, and thank you.
@ Kit Duncan

Thank you for this lovely post.

@ incandescent

Good to see you again, my friend.
Fusun, this was excellent as usual. You have a way of writing that cuts trough the clutter and gets to the point. No matter what I, you, or anyone else says, these three women are on a mission. They think they will make me leave this site. They are sadly mistaken. I have had PM's all day telling me to hang tough. It seems they are not very well liked, and like the incident with Theo, they are always trying to start trouble. If I committed plagiarism. it was unintended and I apologize. I now have Ablonde going back and putting up a post about marijuana that I posted. It was written by scientists, who I paraphrased, because I am not a scientist. I read papers from all over the world, to bring interesting things to my site. I post everyday, because I'm doing my best to learn to write, and to write the right way. If I have been too eager to post something and did not give it due credit, it will not happen again. But I will not quit posting because these three women put me in thier eyesights. I want to thank you for bringing some sanity to a insane day!
I missed this entirely and have yet to catch up. I have a strong feeling whose side I'll be on, but I'll let that wait till i know the details.
But, I just want to voice my respect for women of character like Fusun. Your integrity is impressive, Fusun.
Owl
Mart's Husband
happygolucky432
Kim Hartman
Emogirl
Amanda
Shiral
incandescent
scanner
fernsy
Thank you for your open mindedness and appreciating the point.
Pretty straight forward stuff. I wince at Wiki myself, but it is a valuable spot for basic common knowledge stuff not at your fingertips. I use it on the fly when posting humor rants and the like to remember pertinent particulars.
QUOTE It is written in the spirit of preventing any future singling out of individuals, or finger pointing to ridicule decent contributors whose contributions are read and enjoyed by many; or create divisions on Open Salon where people come with the hope of finding a heaven for writing and getting constructive feedback, rather than being singled out, kicked around, demanded apologies, and ostracised for them because they are not long enough in word count.QUOTE

QUOTEMost of us do not learn well when we are getting slapped upside the head, kicked in the gut, called names, or in any way treated in an inhumane manner. Most of us do not learn well when we are publicly reviled or ridiculed.QUOTE

This is a fundamentally dishonest post that pretends NOT to be what it is, an attack on anyone who disagrees with some of the questionable "advice" given here. The quotes above are in no way conciliatory. They are a negative, judgmental perception of what happened. Anyone who disagrees is told that their comments aren't appropriate. I suppose I should be grateful that at least this time, comments were left open.

People, whether they are professional writers or not, do just simply "forget" to cite sources. I have many years of writing, editing and teaching experience that bears that out. In all those years, I can think of exactly ONE case where that was true. If something I write sounds "familiar," I check to make sure that it hasn't unconsciously been taken from something I've read. It's called doing your research/homework. It take a minute or two and it speaks volumes about a person's credibidlity. Anyone who can go to several links for information on what they're writing, can certainly spend time going to ONE link to make sure it's original, or attribute it.

Reliance on Wikipedia for accurate information is highly suspect. I routinely see wrong information on Wikipedia. I follow the old rule, and I teach it to my students as well, that if I see something on Wikipedia, it must be corroborated twice on reputable sites before it can be used. Wikipedia is only as accurate as the people who post there, and there are countless inaccuracies and biased information posted every day.

Essentially, this post is saying plagiarism is wrong unless someone we like does it. If we like them, then it's OK and as the quotes above indicate, it is fair to blame those who point it out rather than the person/people who's doing it. I've caught a lot of people plagiarizing at OS and usually I just ignore it. You would be very surprised at some people here who do it regularly, and do it KNOWINGLY. Trust me, PMing them about it hasn't stopped them from doing it, and I don't even bother pointing it out any more. As someone who writes/edit/teaches for a living, it is very easy for me to tell when a writer doesn't sound like themselves in a post -- and nearly every time that happens, they've plagiarized and not linked to it.

But I guess that's fine and dandy for the people who are supporting this post and others slamming those who don't think it is OK. I might have taken this post seriously if those attacks weren't made here, but they were. I refuse to be blamed, or to stand by and watch others be blamed, for calling out cheating when they see it. Because that is what it is no matter how you try to spin it. And I will never condone cheating. It lowers the bar for everyone, and it's one reason I don't take OS seriously as a writers' site any more.
I meant credibility.
When someone makes a mistake, I ask myself how I would respond if my daughter or my sister made the mistake. If I can't reply with the same dignity I'd give my family, then I keep my mouth shut. Might not work for everyone, but it works for me. Thanks for this post. rated
Reasonable, Wise, Perfect. I'll bet you're a great mom! R
While I agree with the premise on plagiarism Fusun, and I enjoy you as a person as well, and much of what you write, there are words here which are veiled as an attack and clearly show your opinion on the issue as not being unbiased.

I saw this before when you didn't like someone's behavior and I don't remember anyone making you the arbiter of conduct around here. Now, with that said, I've done the same thing.

I believe there are times when we are simply human - get mad - get passionate - get sad - get joyful - it's all part of being human. If we can't take that on a blogging site, how do we handle ourselves in the real world? Whose to say those things are 'bad'? And, when? That's a moving target if I've ever heard it.

All this judging of eachother's character, rather than a person's singular action or actions, is beginning to get a little unnerving for me. Someone can do something I think unwise, but I would never consider them a 'bad person' from one or two or five actions. If I did, I would be judging myself in the process as I am sure there was a time in history which I likely did the same thing or a time in the future where I may stumble the same way.

I am tired of seeing 'sides' around OS and see this post as another way to entrench that as much as you say otherwise. Writers are leaving over this and that makes me sad. I wish every single one of these posts came down - it would give me a little more hope for humanity.

I came here to see my friends today, see what they had written as a bit of relief from my personal circumstances, and this all flat out sucks. That's all I have to say on the subject. Best to everyone and thank you in advance for allowing me the space to extend my comments beyond the scope of your post.
IF we were all perfect we would have wings and halos!
altho this post is under FusanA's blog, I see two co-authors (Kit Duncan) acknowledged at the top, as well as another person (M Chariot) from whom a paragraph is used at the bottom. The post is clear about its intent and shows no bias on anyone of those writers- so I fail to understand what these people Emma Peel and Sparkling are talking about. I read it three times looking for any indication of dislike toward anyone in partivular- theres no finger pointind, name caling, no mud slinging or charcter judging going here. So what's the problem ? Thank you for the voice of reason, class and civility Kit Duncan, FusanA and M Chariot !
I ran Julie's original screenplay through Plagiarism Checker.com, the site MrsRaptor indicated where she found that Julie Tarp had plagiarized her original screenplay from the screenplay, Giant, and it showed that she did indeed plagiarize TWICE, from her own screenplay! I think heractionable accusation speaks for itself. Unlike MrsRaptor, I can substantiate my claim.

Check it out. http://www.dustball.com/cs/plagiarism.checker/
To be clear - much of what I said was outside the scope of this post and referencing an earlier post by Fusun commenting on people's conduct by doing the exact same thing... as in "shaming the shamers" without even being specific as to who she was speaking to. I don't know how calling someone out for conduct by also shaming them is not perpetuating the cycle and doing the same thing (comments were closed on that post so that is why I mentioned it here).

I have no problem - I am merely stating my opinion as to how I read this as I know she also was calling people out on another post here (Julie Tarp) by saying their is a 'goon squad' and lecturing as to how 'we' should behave in defense of a friend of hers (who is also my friend). They are all my friends - including Fusun. I don't always agree with my friends, and that's okay.

As soon as I see someone making 'rules' for OS, I will find someone willing to break them. That's how we get the little dictators and 'sides' stuff going on. I hope for the best, be prepared for the worst, and understand when people are human. There are no clean hands here, including my own.

In terms of plagiarism, I find no excuse for it. However, today I have seen so many definitions and 'exceptions' for it, I don't know what to think any more. Okay, I'm done. Really. :)
As a writer who takes pride in every word he writes being original, I'm flabbergasted at the idea of plagiarizing in a blog post. I could almost understand it - while seriously disapproving it - when done by a paid professional on a deadline. But here where we're trying to be noticed for our originality? It's incomprehensible.

But I'm also distressed at the vehemence of some of the comments on OS. Criticism does not have to include disrespect.
The problem is Eric, that the "web rules" don't go away. I say this from much experience as a post-secondary teacher. I used to wonder why so many students, who were perfectly capable of getting good marks without cheating, did so and reacted as though they had done nothing wrong. I wondered where they got that attitude from and after this weekend at a writers' site, I now know. That is why condoning any plagiarism, as apparently many do here at OS, is just plain wrong.
nick, i hope you'll note that cecil credited that site.
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2173/in-ricky-nelsons-garden-party-who-is-mr-hughes

it is a shame we can't all be kinder.
Amen to that, Fusun.
lumina59
Gwool
ranting boomer
Pavanne
sefarer
Cranky Cuss
bstrangely
Eric Lightborn
Bobbot
High Lonesome
Thank you for dropping by and understanding the essential message of this post.

@ Emma Peel- I am not about to reiterate a point that has already been made and understood by many here: This post does not condone plagiarism, nor does it stand up for anyone who has committed it. It was written to shed a light on what it is, but more so to emphasize how we should remember that we are human beings with feelings- and when we see one among us to have committed a "cardinal" sin of writing, we should approach him/her with kindness to teach and inform, rather than create the unfortunate spectacle and mockery that took place yesterday.

** This post has no bias, and is not dishonest, because we say so and we stand by our word and our reputation.**
I knew there was a reason you are on my favorites list. :)
How can you say your post has no bias with a straight face when you ignore Ablonde, who presents facts, and praise Scanner, who engaged in more excuses and blame and innuendo?

Apparently, pointing out with facts that someone has plagiarized at OS, more than once, is bad. But someone who falsely accuses another poster of plagiarizing an entire screenplay is good? Sorry, I will never condone plagiarism no matter who is doing it, friend, foe, or complete stranger. THAT is what this particular battle is about, which seems to have been forgotten in the rush to kill the messengers. Some things are worth fighting for, and against, and if certain people don't like it, or choose to be hypocrites, that is their right. I will always stand up for what I believe, especially when it demeans the profession of writing I have been proud to call my own most of my life.
In our post we mentioned no one's names nor did we point fingers to anyone. There is no hypocrisy. You've made your point, Ms Peel, and insist on not accepting the premise or spirit of this post. Therefore please do not come back here where you have nothing more to add.

FA and KD
you know, after reading your comments on julie tarp's post, i have only four words for you: practice what you preach.

i am completely disappointed. where is this respect you claim you value so highly?
If ablonde, emma peel, and bonnie russel don't vilify you, you must be doing something wrong. Let them be what they are - a source of amusement - and take their attacks as the compliments they are.