~*~*~
When I wrote my memoir in 2009, my main purpose was to delve into my life and re examine it with the hope of finding answers to what still danced like question marks in my mind. I was also determined, whether I found those answers or not, to own my life and release the trapped ghosts in order to move on with my future.
"Remembering a wrong is like carrying a burden on the mind."
~ Buddha ~
Having done so, when I look at myself now and remember my past self, I am deeply happy that I have accomplished what I willed. More than anything. Except the well-being and the love of my daughter and my son. I am at peace with myself; I am at peace with those by whom I've been hurt; I am at peace with the world. This is my personal world.
"Be gentle first with yourself if you wish to be gentle with others"
~ Lama Yeshe ~
My peaceful personal world is judged and misjudged by too many, although it is nobody's business and I find it rather intrusive. Their view is distorted by their own suppressing or denial of whatever issues they may have. They find their strength and power in numbers and “Aye!” saying. Well, the reality is that doesn't change the facts; it just alters their own“reality” to their own comfort level.
These individuals like to maintain their snug little niche buy following each other, spying for each other, and supporting each other instantaneously in comments without giving a rational thought to those of others. Any differing opinion, or pointing to a non-judgemental view is considered to be supporting racism, biased, or bigot.
They resurrect from long leaves to preach manners and morality to whom they are but novices at both, while others, confused, as to their identity – chicken? or man? – drop in to slander and insult some one repeatedly with lies, akin to a fisherman’s tale. Meanwhile I feel sad that an intelligent piece of submission has been massacred by the closed mindedness and hate spewed, ironically, by the very same group of people so intent on focusing and highlighting the bad instead of extolling on the virtues of their friend's writing.
What a loss of good intentions!
"Judge nothing, you will be happy. Forgive everything, you will be happier. Love everything, you will be happiest."
~ Sri Chinmoy ~
SILENCE
I've kept my silence, occasionally reminding my insulter that I never received an apology, and although I tried to attribute it to the character he displayed to me on and off OS[not a personal one]. I am, after all, human. Human beings get hurt. If they are hurt, they should directly go to the person who hurt them, and ask :Why? I have never received an explanation, except for what he promotes as incorrect and biased information and lies against me, as well as repeated insults with misogynistic tones and ugly words.
Then there's the one who remains silent for a long time, egging on all her friends to attack me, before she decides it is time I ended the discussion on my own blog with other writers who were carrying on a dialogue, until she sent her friends to derail my post on Critical Thinking into making it a “veiled attack against her”. (Since, I've learned this seems to be a common practice among this group - even among themselves as was the case recently.)
There are others who wake up at beck and call to deflect intelligent comments and to dumb any one who questions one of their ideas, or asks an reasonable question (They get a blanket “Thank you” or their words are automatically interpreted as "personal attacks").
Then there's the one who blatantly tells you not to read her blog any more because you did not call a comment “racist” like everyone of her faithful friends did and expressed a different idea. Not because you condoned the comment, because you never did and hoped that would be understood by such insightful people who adamantly insist to know how and what you think. That, after your personal note thanking her for her piece, expressing sorrow at how it got derailed, hoping that it gets the readership it deserves on its merit, and stating one more time that you are not racist, biased or a bigot.
“Nice try, Fusun ” begins the reply.
Nice try for what, for heavens sake?
I don't intend to annoy anyone. I call out wrong when I see one, but I've kept silent many times here because this is not a real world where people have one face and personality. On the other hand, there are very real people with real names, lives, families, and reputations who contribute their intellectual works on this site.
I am one of them.
Open Salon may be a social site, but it is also a writers' site. It is not a Face Book, or a gossip site. It is not where people write slanderous, libellous, insulting lies about reputable, respected individuals whose works are published, and who have received recognition in both career related and volunteering endeavours.
Nor is it a place to insult anyone. It is plain immoral and wrong to do so. Shame on you for doing just that – blatantly – and scratching around like some fowl compaASS of illperceived morality!
To the rest, my word of advice to you:
Be kind to others as you would be to yourselves, and do not talk behind peoples' backs.
Let them know face to face (or pm to pm) what is bothering you.
Do not use third parties. Yes, another member to be your advocate.
Rate someone's post if you say you did; have the courtesy to check your rate and dot not lie. Read what you rate and comment, do not jump on the bandwagon just because you are friends.
Do not assume anything about people from hearsay or what you imagine in your mind.
Reading about a person's life does not make one know what that person is all about; it is akin to reading history and not knowing the historic figures personally.
And most important of all, this quote from one of my favourite writers.
" Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much."
*~*
You're all forgiven.
♥ Peace and Goodwill to you All! ♥
Füsun
~*~*~*~
Füsun Atalay ~ Author of Will of my Own - 2009
~*~*~*~
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Comments
♥
I think we all need friends, and if we can not be that, at least as adults, we must try to be civilized. I am wishing that there will be a true solution in this issue, and that all will end well.
Your comments and works gives to all of us here, and stating such an issue is essential for all of us.
Rated.
~R~
Monks, like all of us, are flawed They just know in what way. The crux of meditation is to pay attention to our thoughts, acquire a clear view of how and why they arise as they do, to glimpse the gap that occurs between arisen thought and resulting impulse to act on the thought, then hopefully, resist. If resistance should be unavailable, then we forgive not others, but ourselves.
Believing that we have wisdom that others do not is one consequence of teaching. It’s also a flaw. I struggle with this one along with you. Even here, I am aware of my attempt to teach you something that it seems to me you cannot see. Maybe we are both deluded. But maybe saying this will be cause for you to pause typing in anger for a few moments, quietly examine your thoughts, feel the stabby arrow you put in yourself, the one that says that you, a wise and good woman, have been wronged. The beauty of a meditation practice is that every moment, we get to begin again, with this breath, this story-less moment.
I'm sorry some of this has happened (again) but I am not sorry I spoke to you about my concerns. You understand the difference between recognition and attention, and note accordingly.
Thank you for awakening me to that shortcoming.
Shame on them!
R!
Rated.
Thank you for speaking up calmly and rationally. Rated.
Anyway, I don't value apololgies and I don't connect them to forgiveness. I only care how I'm treated. If it's a slip then I automatically forgive it. We all speak in error sometimes, or do other things. If someone is repeatedly hurtful and doesn't apologize but changes the behavior, I forgive it as if they had apologized and resume a relationship if they wish it.
If someone apologizes, and then continues hurtful behaviors, I have to keep forgiving them. That's a huge waste of my time and energy as well as theirs. It may be beyond their ability to change and stop being hurtful and I have to accept that, so my preference is to avoid them.
It's harder when the other person is not at peace with me hurting them. I have no control over how deep their hurt goes, no idea of their past pain, or if they will ever trust me again. Unfortunatly, over time I have rushed so much I have become too blunt. Too often I speak without thinking and hurt people in my rush. Sometimes I truly regret it but it costs me someone I care for. A high price that I have to pay.
For me an apology is just words and to the horror of many, I place little value on what people say. I'm like my cat, most of the time when people are telling me what they're going to do I hear blah-blah-blah. I just want to know if my bowl will be filled and my ears scratched. If sometimes they step on my tail, I hiss but move on. If they're going to say here kitty, kitty and hit me repeatedly, I run away. Sometimes I bite before running. I'm fairly simple in many ways.
The reality is we're all different, I can't make someone stop feeling pain, even if I caused it, and apologized, and changed. I can't force someone to forget or forgive though I find it possible to do both the minute the hurt stops whether it's because they stop, or I stay away. We each feel things differently and handle them differently, that's something that will never change.
I'm sorrowful reading this for you and many who I have come to admire and care for, I will not comment on the other situation because I have no idea the past, or what is transpiring. I don't wish to add more pain to a painful situation, enough people are hurting now. Except for one. There was a commenter on there who made a comment similar to other hateful, bigoted, racist and misogynistic comments I've seen him make repeatedly. I don't know where he gets his information but he sounds eerily like it's from Rush, Beck and FOX news worshipers. Unfortunately there's no way for me to avoid seeing his constantly ugly comments, or seeing the pain he gleefully causes.
No doubt he's congratulating himself today. I'm sure he doesn't want forgiveness, he got exactly what he wanted here on OS. And he didn't have to pick up a gun.
"But I know that to forgive others, I have to have forgiven myself first. I failed to mentioned that (which will be interpreted as sounding holier than thou)"
True that, holier than thou is the vibe you've been putting off, and that's just me speaking as a casual observer, as I really don't give a shit. But yeah, you come across lately as preachy and mean spirited.
This post follows suit. You quote the masters, but I dare think their messages were somehow lost on you. Anyone can read, or quote, the words.
Amen to greenheron's referenced "stabby arrow" -- a large painful one I'd say. Hope you feel better sometime soon, but until then, maybe just unload the shoulder boulder and lay off the holier than thou snark?
Or not... none of my affair.
It's so easy to speak too quickly or to be misunderstood online that spats are bound to happen, particularly in a group like this with strong opinions. I don't like seeing it happen and hope things work out with all involved.
I understood what you meant, Loud and clear. How can you be at peace wit yourself if you haven't "forgiven" yourself for whatever? What I feel bad is that you left a bait for those who aim at you with their poisonous arrows. Oh well....
I have admired your writing and been appreciative of your support of mine. I was surprised at the ungracious remark you left on someone's blog. Last year when a similar thing occurred I found two ways to take the comment but I don't see how this can be construed as anything else but what it is. An attack comment. I wish it were not so,
as I realize by writing this I am probably damaging the friendship online we have enjoyed. I am equally friends with others here, no more no less, I belong to no group of PMers or OS Facebook group.
I just find it confusing to quote these quotes and yet practice the reverse.
" . . . thank you for such encouraging words. I feel like once you know something, you have the choice. You can choose to use the information you have, or ignore it. I have a hard time ignoring."
You had no problem whatsoever ignoring all the intelligent comments from people who don't often visit your posts. Is it your threatened sense of security that allows you to reply only to your close FB friends and completely ignore challenging remarks, or are you just plain rude? Just curious.
FusunA
JULY 29, 2012 11:27 PM
Again, I am seeking to understand this comment.
Please do not feel that you are jeopardizing your friendship with me. Thank you for being open and asking. Simply and plainly what you (did not include) quotes was a question, not a comment by me.
The back story in brief: I never heard of waffle fries so read out of curiosity. I saw an intelligent comment by Oryoki, which made a lot of sense (and the next day expanded version of it was on the Front Page as an Editor's Choice). The comment, along with a couple of others, was not even so much as acknowledged. The poster, Joan H, was more interested in which of her friends' comment to recommend for an RP while people were still reading and commenting on her writing. To those that she could not, or did not wish to reply (I can only assume she could not, or wished not to), she left what she called a "blanket thank you."
I understand time constraints and other personal business preventing some one from answering all relevant comments and differing views individually. When someone replies selectively to those who only praise her/him and ignores others, that is common rudeness. Then to bypass my question with some unrelated remark, and start a slur campaign on Face Book against me - I don't know what to call that. I was not on Face Book to see what went on. I was told by the moderator who asked her to take down her thread.
I hope this answers your question clearly.
The last night, I casually observed you coming out in support of rwnutjob's race baiting comment at Sally Swifts' blog. You know the one right? THEN when nutloaf went on his jew bashing rant in reply, I take it, to comments at Sallys' post, I casually observed you over there, once again in support of pure ignorant hate.
This rw guy who aptly names himself nutjob, and not in a joking manner, also recently left this bit of genius wisdom at Verbal Remedy aka Denise's recent post.
"There's plenty of blame to go around Denise. I've personally had to provide my family with dumpster food for several months after losing my business. The migrants and worthless crackhead niggers could get plenty of government help, but not a previously self-employed white guy."
I wonder if this is the type of 'critical thinking' you speak of Fusun, or have you just been in a contrarian mood lately?
I call 'em as I see "em, Fusun. I don't do group think and I don't ride bandwagons. There are many times that people with whom I am friendly write things I simply cannot endorse. When that happens, I either refrain from commenting altogether, or I find a way to disagree without attacking them. Usually. But today I let rwnutjob have it without pulling any punches. He is an anti-Semite. He couldn't make it any clearer unless he decided to put a swastika on his banner.
You do seem to have a problem with Joan H for reasons I can't quite understand. Of all the people on OS, Joan is probably the least likely to say or do anything the least bit petty. I think it is unfortunate that you thought her failure to acknowledge your comment on her post was an indication that she was being rude. Many people here never acknowledge comments; others do so when they have time. I think it is a mistake to make assumptions about the reason. But, that's just me.
I love reading your work. Your recent posts from your trip back home to Turkey are fascinating. But something has happened recently that has changed the way you relate to some people and I've noticed it, too.
I am always against name-calling as a tactic for argument, so yes, I wish the man you have the real issue with would not resort to it. He is capable of such eloquence, he'd never need to sling names. But he does and that's on him. I choose to enjoy his writing and his kindnesses, which in my experience, has far outweighed any snark. And I forgive him, often, for his less-than-elegant outbursts.
-------
To reply your first question tr ig :
I never “came out” in support of rwnutjob's "race baiting comment" at Sally Swifts' blog. That is slander which is thrown on me and perpetuated by everyone who went to that blog. What they failed and still insist on doing so is seeing that I tried to deflect the focus from racism and hatred that was growing by each comment, and tried to refocus on the merit of Sally's exposé. I also pointed out that people should give her a chance – as courtesy requires – to weigh in, before they took it in a direction of their own. If they are not deleted by now, my words speak for themselves and anyone with an unbiased mind can read them.
To reply your second question:
When I saw rwnutjob's post which answered Bill S's adamant claim that there is not one iota of proof of what the former stated in his comment, my inquisitive mind led me to read and I was rather surprised at what I saw. I thanked rwnutjob for posting the information which provided substance to his statement. This is not supporting him, but again, it is seen as such by the all too willing and ready gang to assume so and attack me.
This morning I saw rwnutjob's response to my reply on his post, and Joan H.'s juvenile remark. Such a remark can be based on neither maturity nor wisdom as she pretends to promote and exemplify to the children in her care, if she acts no better than they would.
In conclusion, tr ig, you may call it critical, or analytical, or rational thinking. The choice is yours. I look at it as mature, unbiased behaviour and “keeping my head when all around me are losing theirs” (to borrow from Mr. Kipling).
"The bottom line, however, is that some people are just born bad. While there may be contributory factors, one must hold the individual accountable for his actions."
That is a very valid point. Evil does not differenciate among religions, races, or color. I hope this is the message that rises out of his comments, not who may be in power in Hollywood.
Thank you for an informative, well written piece.
Rated♥
FusunA
AUGUST 04, 2012 08:40 AM"
I took his comment, the "born bad" bit to be about Sally and Jews in general. I'd bet if you ask him, he'd tell you as much, Ms. Keep the Hysteria to a Minimum. In your critical, sensitive head, were you supposing he was speaking of the Aurora shooter and his ilk?
Who do you suppose he was referring to when he asked Sally to "look in a mirror?" (for blame)
Yeah well, enough from me. I see what I see, and that's a bitter woman on some kind of vendetta against Joan and others, and against Judaism in general. By the way, my uncle George is pure Armenian.. a survivor dontchaknow.
As for Joan H. Personally I don't have anything with or against her. I made the mistake of thinking her sincere and mature enough to offer an honest critique once upon a time, without flowery language. I learned my lesson that she does not react well to criticism of any kind. Furthermore, she used Cranky and Matt to send me angry and threatening pm's in her defence rather than communicating with me openly. I am a sincere and kind person, and if I am alerted that I hurt someone inadvertently by that person, rather than being stung with poisoned arrows by third parties, I make amends right away. I don't carry grudges like others. I am aware of her silent anti Fusun campaign by alienating many on OS from my reading my pieces and egging on her smug group to sprinkle implicit remarks ridiculing me.
This has to stop! Now. As is often (perhaps incorrectly) attributed to Abraham Lincoln: “You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” The charade is over.
You write: "But something has happened recently that has changed the way you relate to some people and I've noticed it, too."
I have no idea to what you are referring. All I know is that I cannot tolerate pettiness any more at this stage of my life. Thank you for reading and enjoying my work, I enjoy yours too.
Try as best each of us a might, we are not perfect. Not a single one of us.
There are at least two sides to every argument and misunderstanding.
Each of us is made up of differently ... we have different personalities, environments and cultures.
We can't all get along all of the time but it's what we do at those times that can have lasting consequences.
We all know these things.
I try to see and understand both sides but I do not wish to take sides. I try to do my best to be friends with each and every one.
I believe the best that each of us can do is support and lift one another up ... not put each other down.
I hope we each will choose the positive ... and let go of the negative. Otherwise it's all just a waste of time.
I'm glad your Uncle is a survivor. My great Uncle and his Family were massacred, and livestock and his home burned by the Armenians as they retreated during WWI, burning everything on their path.
Rated.
I had so many problems with this; where to begin...
For starters:
-No profanity;
-You made no personal attacks;
-No tedious, long-winded, self-righteous gloating;
-You didn't use any big words I had to look up;
-You were restrained and eloquent.
Worst of all, you didn't name names!!!
I stopped reading after ~*~*~*~ (the second one)
Here's some reading you should enjoy!!!
"Lea Lane, I enjoy reading your posts, but your reply is written like a true member of the synagogue of Satan. You complain of my antisemitism only because you have enjoyed a good life off the fruits of Goy labor and we wouldn't want to mess up a good thing now would we.
Sally, not all blacks are niggers, but when I see a nigger, I'm only too happy to call a spade a spade.
Bill S., you ask OS to terminate my account? So typical of the "tolerant" left. You are upset because I see through you for the evil you truly represent. For those of you on the left who excoriate me for lumping all Jews together, it is absolutely no different than you morons lumping all conservatives together, or all Christians together.
Again, those of you who have chosen to follow Satan, will reap your reward."
rwnutjob
AUGUST 05, 2012 02:23 PM
Enjoy your afternoon Fusun.. Sorry about your great step uncle. Hope you sell a book or two here.
Here's some reading you should enjoy!!!
"Lea Lane, I enjoy reading your posts, but your reply is written like a true member of the synagogue of Satan. You complain of my antisemitism only because you have enjoyed a good life off the fruits of Goy labor and we wouldn't want to mess up a good thing now would we.
Sally, not all blacks are niggers, but when I see a nigger, I'm only too happy to call a spade a spade.
Bill S., you ask OS to terminate my account? So typical of the "tolerant" left. You are upset because I see through you for the evil you truly represent. For those of you on the left who excoriate me for lumping all Jews together, it is absolutely no different than you morons lumping all conservatives together, or all Christians together.
Again, those of you who have chosen to follow Satan, will reap your reward."
rwnutjob
AUGUST 05, 2012 02:23 PM
Enjoy your afternoon Fusun.. Sorry about your great step uncle. Hope you sell a book or two here.
And speaking of cliques -- I don't believe you have the nerve to say that you've not been part of any. I've been the target of quite a few of your attacks when you were part of (and head cheerleader) of the whole KitD/Matt Paust/Cranky Cuss cabal and that is sad because I do think you are a good person at heart. You don't hurt my feelings because I don't take strangers' opinions of me personally and I'm more than capable of standing up for myself.
I identify quite strongly with your position of being an outsider here and it's ironic because you were one of the people that attacked me the most (while pretending to make peace and be "neutral" -- ha!), but I know more than most people what it's like to be vilified for having an opinion that doesn't conform to the majority.
That said, anyone who supports and condones virulent misogyny (as you have done) and anti-Semitism, as you have recently done, does not have my respect. You are entitled to your opinion on those matters, but don't expect that you will be thanked for it.
And I know you hate this expression, but you are the textbook example of passive aggression and this is one post of many that illustrates it. Me, I'm just aggressive. But at least people know where they stand with me.
I hope you will come to your senses and get over your hurt about losing some of your friends here re the whole Joan H. fiasco -- which you clumsily initiated although I don't think that was your intention -- and move forward. OS is important to you and if you truly believe in forgiveness, than this is not the correct path toward it.
Oh my God, Fusun. There is not one ounce of truth in this paragraph.
"Egging on?" "Silent Fusun campaign?"
That you would think I spend any time at all thinking of ways to get at you is not only preposterous, but very very sick.
I wrote a post about unkind, hurtful comments on Orphans of Open Salon. (Which by the way I am one of the administrators, so I don't understand the "moderator" who told me to take it down.) I never mentioned you by name.
You can quote the Buddha and all the Prophets and all the Saints. It is meaningless without action.
You owe ME an apology. I won't hold my breath.
Now I'm going to think about the racism and anti-Semitism I've seen on OS during the last 24 hours and I'm going to vomit.
Please go vomit somewhere else.
I still have your pm's that state otherwise. I don't delete notes.
Getting deep... whew!!
Me thinks you flatter yourself too much by claiming, like many here whose opinions mean nothing to me, that YOU know me. You know NOTHING about me except what your pathetic, narrow limited mind and vocabulary which cannot go beyond your favourite expression “passive aggressive” allow you. I've always been open with my opinions and my writing, not lurking behind scenes like your and (another one of your favourite words for your benefit) "your ilk". Where do you get off making such a libellous statements without any facts except your personal, hateful opinions?
I was trying to protect your comment on my Critical Thinking post when Paust made a provoking statement towards you, and I sent him a pm to watch it or I'd delete his remark, He instantaneously replied that he “unfavoured” me. And ever since he has been strutting around OS insulting me with misogynous overtones. Did you just wake up? What makes you think I support “virulent misogyny” racism, and antisemitism? BUT, as with others here, who have turned into moral preachers overnight to cover their own shortcomings, you too are entitled to your ill-founded opinion; and I don't need nor want respect of such people.
I am nor ever have been a part of any clique. That in itself may have made me unpopular, but I am not seeking popularity. I am seeking truth, knowledge, and fairness. There is plenty of that to go around without OS or any of you. There are also people here whom I respect highly, and who respect me. They are not high profile like the charlatans. I know I don't fit in with the swearing, cursing, whining crowd. I made the mistake of shedding a different view on a post whose writer I thought was more enlightened than the commentators on her post. THAT was my big mistake, not individual thinking, or being conciliatory. I am accused of being a “closet Jew hater” by Bill S. How dare he, who knows NOTHING about me, who has never left a comment on any of my works, or had any contact with me?
I am not the hypocrite here. It is all of you who are attacking me behind the pretext of outrage based on my benign comment and for not echoing the same bile on Sally's post. What happened to freedom of expression without being branded racist or biased or a bigot?
Correct your own ways before you tell ME what to do. I'm perfectly capable of handling myself without your twisted perception.
Back to the wall!
Rated respectfully.
Copying the whole damned thread now, for posterity, in case.
Copying the whole damned thread now, for posterity, in case.
I will delete any further flippant, irrelevant comments. Bye, Bye.
Don't you people have anything better to do on a sunny summer Sunday? We don't have many left until the blizzards start.
I might add that if you don't like someone or what they say, then you are free to stay away from their blogs and delete their comments when they visit yours.
I really don't understand all of this angst. And no, I don't want an explanation.
You said to Lezlie: "You are not among the ones in this group, although I was disappointed at the outburst in your comment which failed to see my vision and seemed to put me in the category as the others did" then I began to wonder...who is "this group" and how do you even know who is "in" it? I began to see you as more and more paranoid. Then you say "and seemed to put me in the category as the others did" which my reply would be if SOOO many people took it the wrong way - could it be that you did not express yourself very clearly.? That would certainly be my guess.
I remember about a year ago a very rude comment you made on Joans blog which really surprised me. I'm not part of "Joan's Group" (actually, I'm pretty darn sure there is no such thing") and she's never pm'd me about you in the 3 years I've been here, but ever since then, I, too, as some others have said, have seen a change in your atitude.
I am hoping that you can see you are just being paranoid, and all these people are not out to get you and please do us all a favor and desist from these posts. I don't believe that anyone really Needs your forgiveness.
I'm not unfriending you - (also not rating you); just wishing you well and hoping you find that peace you are seeking.
May the peace you hope for come to being for all.
I want to choose the right words, because it is important to me...just me...that you understand them and can feel the spirit and pleasure of life without the things the rest of the world think you must have in order to survive, write and become part of a social group.
I have found Buddhism also, and it has been a miracle. A saving grace.
I have no relationship with my children. It is not for lack of want. It just is. And they have also had children they do not wish to share with me.
But if I had a relationship with them, or anyone else in my family, I would not have been able to write with such naked painful truth and those who have read my work, know, it is scathingly painful and close to unbelievable. Things known, but never said. Because, before all this, I always fell under other's spells and wrote, painted and lived as they told me to.
I do not know if I want a relationship with them, because, I would hope not, there is a chance that they would come in and I would delete a lot of truths to save the tattered piece of fabric they gave me to hold on to. Only to sell out and probably lose them once again.
I have had comments hurled at me, but I left them, unless they were my children. Because as I promised in my very first post, I would NOT let that play out for the rest of the world. It happened once, and of course, there were folks here who grasped on to their words before I could delete them and spread them like wildfire across Salon. I wrote these folks PM's explaining what I could, never begging, never threatening, just asking. Some of them were kind and stopped others simply seemed to fade away through lack of interest.
I have had people write me scathing PM's, I have been called a "whore", a beggar, a piece of trash. Mostly saying I am pathetic for sending PM's of when I would write another post.
But I do not write like others here with valuable opinion or current events. I write my memoirs and give them to the people, free of charge, chapter by chapter. If they miss one, it will be confusing. I sent them a PM notification very clearly stating POST: blah blah so all they need to do is erase it and if they chose to come and read, they are aware of a new installment.
So for those who no longer wish to get them, I remove them from my favorites list and then they suffer the loss of advertisement for themselves because they are no longer on my right hand feed. If it was easier to send them without adding those who do not want them, I would probably still leave them as favorites, since I only pick people whose work I enjoy.
I too have sent one, only one, to WendyO when I first came on here. I have no idea what I was thinking when I sent it to her, but after over a year, I still; feel the pangs of guilt over that. I sent her numerous PM's asking forgiveness and she has graciously just "let it go" leaving me on her fav's list. That is a person who teaches another a lesson through silence.
I have met some wonderful friends here and FusunA, they have been the best of the best. Explaining the clique's and who to watch out for etc. These people have been beautifully protective to me, and in course, me to them.
So you can see, the people of whom you write are valueless unto themselves in making their harsh words their own portrait.
One of the very worst of this bunch actually apologized to me when he saw I was not to be deterred by him, and I offered him the opportunity "to be nice". Of course it was followed by a PM from him asking to be taken off the Posting list, followed by a couple of others who also asked. Allegedly his "Harem" of not so free thinkers.
However, his followers (as I have come to find out) were not as gracious as him and their words though stinging, only made me more resolute in not worrying about them showing up in comments. If they should, and a couple have, I leave their words which are their signature of their soul and ask them to come back when they are feeling more at peace.
I enjoy your work, as I enjoy all people here.
But I believe there are not as many people as you think, reading or considering their comments. I do not read other's comments as a rule. Maybe they have written against my comments, but unless it is on my page, and yes, there I read ALL comments, I am not concerned with what they have to say. It is the issue of the person whose post they have critiqued.
But you ARE among my very favorites and it is because you are NOT part of that group. I find it wonderful that they have shown themselves, though it has been at your expense. If they hadn't, the worst, exact opposite may have happened and that is, they may have wooed and cajoled you to be a part of their group. Small, trite and unbecoming as they are.
Watch, they will come after me, maybe not, but when they do, it won't be pretty, but guess what? I will never know, because I choose not to.
You are the blessing.
With love
Dianne Schuch Lindsey
(I do not know if you have watched Kundun about the Dalai Lama, but my favorite scene was where Mao Tse Tung and his deliberators came to convince the Lama to give up his land and they had the absolute worst words to accompany this request/order. Anyone would have felt the need to retort/respond. But the Dalai sat silent. And with each word said, the detractor became more and more uncomfortable, because the Dalai Lama would not speak. Finally leaving in abject frustration. I learned a lot by that and that is how I choose to handle my attackers. More words are spoken in silence)
It is wonderful that you care enough about others to assign worth to so many comments, but as I look at my own trail of comments left for others, I sometimes wish I could take them back for they have nearly no value.
Peace to you, my friend.
and thanks!
The funny thing is
he keeps coming back here to make sure they are doing what he expects.
Personally I read some of your poems from your past posts, and I value your blog even if you don't write much poetry. Now I'm hooked on your travelogue.
Thank you for sharing so much and your generosity.
~r~
You are not attempting to make peace with anyone here. You are grinding your axe, quietly, so that folks who are reading you for the first time think, "oh, how good and holy and compassionate she is," while those of us who have been on the other end of your comments know that you go out of your way to make yourself the center of attention by pretending to be hurt by what others are saying about your latest comment. I read the article and the thread to which you are referring. You defended remarks that were made to wound people by slandering an entire religious group. It's funny that you should do so. When I wrote about what the Turks did to the Armenians in 1915--you remember, the million dead? -- you were offended that someone would call attention to what your countrymen had done in their past. And there was certainly no compassion or forgiveness when talking about those facts.
Fusun. You've succeeded again. You're the top-rated post here this afternoon, and many are seeing some sainted woman who is dispensing compassion like Pez.
But all you have done is to write a thinly veiled attack piece against the people who you do not like. And in the comments, you feel free to go to town on them. I don't see much of the forgiveness stuff that you're talking about
Please stop dressing your passive-aggressive posturing as some newfound wisdom. You're a con artist with a mean streak a mile wide.
"I have found Buddhism also, and it has been a miracle. A saving grace.
I have no relationship with my children. It is not for lack of want. It just is. And they have also had children they do not wish to share with me."
Huh?
The following is FusunA response on fersy's said post. I took it verbatim (look it up if you don't know what the word means).
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"In the bible, False accusation is akin to murder."
Reading this here was just as good as having heard it from you, Fernsy. Now I can come back again and again to rejoice with you. I always felt in my heart that your day of vindication would come and never doubted you.
Rated♥
FusunA
August 05, 2012 01:01 PM
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So in what kind of a delusional mind do you arrive at your bizzare conclusion that she is "rejoicing because some woman got breast cancer"? You are a prime example of the people here, with the exception of a handful, who have no purpose or valuable contribution, but exist for the purpose of snooping and spraeding venom. You are everything you accuse this lady of and then some.
Fingerlakes: Come back when you are rational and have made peace with yourself. Jealousy will get you nowhere.
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FusunA: I hope you ignore these ignoramuses.
Rated.
Instead I have found a post simply asking for some sort of explaination and filled with pain, however written and perceieved, followed by so many harshly written responses and one person who seems to only delight in one thing and that is to cut down others for the sake of his own percieved status.
He is the saddest one on here because he has taken the most eloquent responses and carved out an entirely different meaning.
Did you read ALL of DSL, who you know will not take you on.
Why do you do this tr ig? what happened to you as a child?
And why do I only see you on the women's pages?
You come to write your poetry. I come for entertainment, and sweetie this is top grade stuff, this one.
I happened to have been dropped on my head as a child, if you must know.
A poem for you:
http://open.salon.com/blog/judy_wittbold/2012/08/05/for_true_gr_it
Then recently you commented on one of Joan's posts, accusing her of being rude for not responding to all the comments she'd got. That struck me as rude. Especially since you could have worded things differently - less accusingly.
Then yesterday or whenever it was, RWnutjob wrote a comment that was full of hatred but ended on a semi-reasonable note. You said people should concentrate on his positive note and ignore the hateful stuff. And you don't understand why people disagree vehemently. I don't understand why you don't understand. Agreeing with the positive statement without disagreeing with the hateful stuff makes it sound as if you're okay with the entirety of his comment.
These are things I've observed and commented on, all on my own and find baffling.
Perhaps you might consider explaining these things in such a way as to make them seem less objectionable. Because as they stand, they make you sound rude to Joan and make you sound supportive of or at least tolerant of someone's truly nasty words.
And to all your supporters, who read this post of yours and to whom it has not occurred that there might be more to the whole bruhaha than what you have presented, they should remember there's usually at least two sides to any story. Folks, this isn't a matter of a random handful of people (or 'clique') suddenly deciding to attack you, Fusun, but rather they are upset that you seem to have suddenly decided to attack Joan and to stand in solidarity with a hate-speech person.
Look, you can buy her twaddle all you want. All I know is that she just wrote an entire post in which she described herself as warm and forgiving, while taking the opportunity to describe people that she doesn't like and blame them for her shortcomings.
And the fact that you think I'm jealous of Fusun? I'm still laughing. Believe me, she's the last person I'm jealous of. The only reason I'm here is because she has mercilessly attacked people I care about, and I was taught to stand up to bullies. Especially bullies who cloak themselves in martyr's garb.
i've been reading this crap all weekend, and i have to say: this is an all-time new low for OS, not the least of which is that there are, as of this comment, 43 people who are clueless enough to have rated this post. and don't even get me started on the clusterf*ck over on the blog where people are crowing about a woman having breast cancer and the same woman's mother dying. if i didn't know better, i would swear this had to be a joke. what the hell is wrong with you and your pals????
and, fusun, i have to say one thing:
once you say something on this site (and in life, actually, if you want to expand it), you have to own it. you said it, we can all read and at least some of us know what those strings of words put together mean. so yammering on and on about how you didn't say that or you didn't mean that just.. doesn't..work. please stop. just stop.
and the worst part of the whole thing that started this? was when you said you slammed what joan wrote in that post a year ago because you were trying to help her write better. you can't possibly imagine that anyone believed that, can you? i mean, first, it was well written. you may not have agreed with what she was *saying*, but she wrote it perfectly well. second, your credentials as a competent editor show every time you write on your own blog, and there your claim again falls flat. third, no one here who is a good writer (and, yes, i'm one of them) would ever presume to critique another writer's post without a specific request by the writer. not ever, as in never. it is the height of arrogance. i've been here a long, long time, and i have never seen anyone do what you did that day on joan's blog. it wouldn't have mattered if it was joan or any other blogger here - what you did was, without question, out of bounds, off the cliff.
so, you see, you've done all this to yourself. and that you continue to protest is, to me, astonishing.
"Open Salon may be a social site, but it is also a writers' site. It is not a Face Book, or a gossip site. It is not where people write slanderous, libellous, insulting lies about reputable, respected individuals whose works are published, and who have received recognition in both career related and volunteering endeavours.
"Nor is it a place to insult anyone. It is plain immoral and wrong to do so. Shame on you for doing just that – blatantly – and scratching around like some fowl compaASS of illperceived morality!"
I haven't had a lot of exchange with you during our time here on Open Salon, Fusun, but it has been marked by your persistence in questioning details in my writing, which was troubling. It was either how I dressed in Istanbul or whether or not there are veal barns in Wisconsin or whether or not I might have been dressed appropriately for the time of year on my first date with my husband. Whatever it was, you seemed to hound, to poke, to criticize, in a way that was mystifying. I confess to not understanding it, so have generally given you wide berth. It's difficult to say whether those we don't know in person would be people we would actually like if we met. No one's writing here is great enough to justify lack of civility.
But there's nothing casual about the nasty slings and arrows being slung FusunA's way, especially by one TR IG-ger happy blogging bobo.
HEY tr ig you're just jealous that no matter how many times you change your avatar you can't be a sweet little red flower like Fusun and you'll never be Turkish either no matter how many belly dancers you watch.
And also someone else probably posted those comments using her avatar - like YOU maybe.
Or maaaaybeeeee..... it's something else entirely, tr ig.
I think I've got it.
Fusun, I think all of tr ig's comments are a smokescreen. He's reaching out to the OS community in his own feeble, blundering way and admitting he's a male blogger scx-stalker. A casual one, of course.
"It's like a school marm waving the flag for the KKK and wondering why nobody understands."
And you expect us to believe you teach writing? I'm so sick of that tired, overused simile; it's in every grammar school English textbook ever printed. Please reassure me your "students" are your Teddy bear and Muppet doll collections.
What? I don't know, I came into this movie at almost the end. What's happening? SEX STALKER would be an awesome name for a movie....
Or not...
I'll go now...
**Wanders off**
Damn chemical imbalance in my brain...YOU ALL MAKE ME GLAD I WANT TO HAVE A PARTY AND INVITE EACH ONE OF YOU AS A GUEST...Be the best family reunion ever!!
Yes, Margaret, you can bring your organ grinder. Trig says he has a monkey he can spare!! Good times!!!
*flees back outside*
how 'bout we all just take one good long look in the mirror.
Fusun Atalay is one of the most sincere, sensitive, thoughtful people I've encountered anywhere and while we have never even spoken she has given me every reason to take her words as honest opinion and she is consistently kind in those words, even when she is pointing out errors or a difference in that opinion.
I believe in reckonings and communication. I believe in getting things off your chest which you and others did here. I am a gunny-sacker, more in person than in writing, and collect grievances quietly for too long. It is hard for me to say OUCH in the moment. Or to do a reality check with someone. That can save a whole lot of rippling stress and self-frustration that I did not honor myself when someone dishonored me or I thought they did.
I believe in being spontaneous and yet I know there is a risk there of offending and sabotaging relationships in a second of emotional sloppiness and reactivity. Especially in the cyber context, those naughty fingers come out with things and push "post this comment" and one is left only to gulp and sigh and hope it will be taken with some degree of slack.
I know that jumping into triangulating dynamics is no win for those who feel codependently compelled because of group think and uber loyalty especially since when the primaries make up far too often the secondaries are still on the sh*t lists because they were not acting from knowledge of core truths but second hand accounts and enflamed cronyism and cronyism can really really really SUCK.
Cronyism scares me most at open salon and life and I know we all cultivate our cronies but cronyism is really toxic when it begins to gallop along. And there is the Karpman triangle dynamic, when a rescuer tries to rescue a victim and sometimes the victim defends the persecutor and the persecutor then rescues the rescuer. Confused ... means "fused with"! STUCK IN CRAZINESS AND REACTIVITY. I came from an alcoholic family and this is classic communication, sadly.
You are processing something clearly serious. I always go to the five stages of grief. I think you touch on all five stages above and that is going for a conversion process. For the goal of forgiveness and self-forgiveness. Acceptance is what I strive for first. Forgiveness is a real gift when it comes but the pump has to be primed a lot to get to that gift. Acceptance is an easier first stop. And non-acceptance is also a legitimate stop before that when things are still unsettled and still very painful.
I think some of the commenters, especially some who feel so impacted directly, are doing the same going through their paces. Sounds like pain and betrayal there, too. I think the principals among you need to work it out among yourselves and any cronies of both yours and theirs should let it happen without gang-type loyalty upstaging the principals of what went down. (Or did secondary cronies end up becoming principals trying to be hardcore loyal cronies?)
People like me, maybe, popping off should shut up. Oops.
Anyway, re-bonding or detachment will happen. Closure.
I want to reach for one of my favorite sayings about relationships which I desperately need for my own clunkiness in relating. "Love without honesty is sentimentality, and honesty without love is brutality." And I am not talking love as in romantic love. I am talking about basic healthy good will toward fellow human beings. Stopping before one demonizes the other guy which is often easier said than done. And also being honest and not people pleasing, that ain't easy either sometimes.
Two intentions, to protect or to explore. Hard to explore when there is evidence one needs to protect oneself. But exploring is braver. I endorse the explorations here. Not at times the brutality but the explorations, yes.
I am not someone who is often in the loop in terms of groups. Sometimes I am really astute, sometimes obtuse. Sometimes too new. Sometimes too remote. And right now, I don't know if this is helpful to you or anyone. Just coming out of my fingers after an exhausting work shift.
There are hundreds and hundreds of surface areas within open salon for bonds to be made and offenses to be thrown.
Sometimes we do a wonderful dance with each other, with grace and wit and joy. Sometimes we are like bumper cars. Sometimes we are like bulldozers. Sometimes we limp away. Sometimes we stay and play it as it lays.
Take care of your precious self. FWIW.
best, libby
xxxx
Having seen most of this production before, here's what I took away that was new. You did not understand my inquiry, and effectively demonstrated that the most basic Buddhist philosophy, despite your quotes and claims and attraction to it, is not something you understand. And when I read the comment about the breast cancer blog celebration, I checked out that discussion, and was disgusted to see WOMEN delighting in another WOMAN's breast cancer diagnosis. Breast cancer is one of the most horrible diseases suffered by WOMEN. It is not karmic payback. Add the concept of karma to the list of things Buddhist that you know nothing about. Ugh. Just ugh. I'm going now to join Cranky in the vomitorium.
~~*~~ ~~*~~
I think you were a little rough on m appeal!!
~~*~~ ~~*~~
I think you were a little rough on m appeal!!
It had nothing to do with vindication and I responded to Fusun's comment expressing that. Vindication might come in the court soon but hearing that news was no form of vindication. Having the truth come out is the only vindication. It did for the moment feel as if the universe has it's own plans but that is not vindication, merely a fleeting feeling based on blind faith and even some desperation. Mostly, it just feels surreal and spooky.I tried to get that across for my own sake, because it was taking over much needed headspace.
False accusation is akin to murder in the bible and getting people criminally prosecuted, and shunned and banned, and then worse, and then making sure they are unable to pursue their dreams due to malicous lies is evil. May greenheron, Candace Forte, and Kelly Lark never have to go through what the falsely accused go through.
Those who are expressing disgust for me writing what I wrote are not reading the piece or are just having a knee jerk reaction to someone being honest about a novel and particular experience. Read the whole post and the comments , please.
I never wished cancer or death on anyone. And even if I did: In this instance-- it would be justified. In 99.9 percent of circumstances it wouldn't be.
I tried to tell a story that struck me as something worthy of discussion and meditation. I don't believe in Karma in any sure way. I don't believe even that this is the wrath of god at play. I do know that such news brought many thoughts and they seemed to be thoughts worthy of sharing. It also struck me as a story and I like to share stories.
Those who wrote honest comments in response know a lot of the story or have experienced something similar.
I was baffled by Fusun's comment and just imagined she skimmed the piece.
As for the other thing: I have told Fusun that she was absolutely wrong a year ago and encouraged her to apologize. I am saying it "publicly" now because it feels like the right thing to do and it is all is very public to begin with.The whole rwnutjob Sally Swift thing is too vile to even think about now. Wrong is wrong and right is right.
You're like Willy Wonka and this is like a comment candy store. I'm gonna be spending A LOTTA time here.
@Libby: "I am not someone who is often in the loop in terms of groups. Sometimes I am really astute, sometimes obtuse. Sometimes too new. Sometimes too remote. And right now, I don't know if this is helpful to you or anyone. Just coming out of my fingers after an exhausting work shift."
This is VERY helpful, Libby. In fact, it could be me because I've been trying to find myself since I was 17! (Maybe we're the same person?) The only time I'm ever in the loop is when the loop's around my neck.
Also, sometimes I'm elastic and sometimes I'm idiomatic and sometimes I'm autodidactic and other times I'm autocratic and then sometimes I'm idiosyncratic and on Thursdays I'm anticlimactic and when I'm in the mood I'm syntactic. But every third Sunday I'm incipiant.
How did you get yourself out of your fingers? I've been tangled up in mine since 1992.
You are right; they are wrong.
There. I fixed it.
~Rated
I beg your forgiveness.
@ Fernsy: You imagined correctly, dear. I did skim over your post since I had heard the entire story from you over our telephone conversation nearing an hour. At that time I had expressed my shock and dismay at Tig Notaro's news, but also encouraged you as I always have to hang in there, because your day of vindication from all the injustice and slanders you've been subjected to would come. Not by her misfortune, but by the court decision. Remember how I commended your stamina and told you to keep strong?
Also at an earlier conversation - and I remember this very well - I told you that compared to what you have been subjected to, I condsidered the slurs and slanders thrown at me on Open Salon insignificant, and that I admired your strength. You were very understanding then and not baffled at all. I hope this gentle reminder jolts your memory and ends your bafflement. The rejoicing I imply is your day of vindication from all the misery inflicted upon you and your family; NOT at the news of someone's breast cancer. Love♥
I have been at OS for a year now,and I have met some of the flock in direct manner or otherwise.
I agree with you on one point:The insult should never be accepted.
Unfortunately,there are quite a few who are able to live only under this premise.They have to go their own way but should keep distance to others with a different set of mind.
Your words are clear,fair and compassionate.Thank you.
Rated with Love
Amen! This is in the core of all cults/tribes; best example is the Tea Party.
First, this is a beautiful, wise and clever post. Best of all, it triggered the sharpest comment I've read in a long time: the first comment by Margaret Feike.
Second, I would like to ask your forgiveness for being jealous of you. I have been trying for years to reach even half the of the unmatched beauty that glorify your posts, but no cigar. I am jealous of your popularity. I mean, Jesus Fusun! You have received more ratings in less than a week and a few posts than entire tribes on OS receive in a year.
Yet, I still share this with your friends and readers: You have all my love and respect for being a great friend, an honorable person, and an asset to OS.
Fusun you are a friend and I enjoy your writing. I am enthralled by your the pictures of your trip and your photography. I have no idea what comments have been sent to whom. I can barely keep up with my own. Trying to avoid dust-ups as much as possible. The one piece that you offered to edit for me, was much appreciated and much improved. Thank you.
See, that's your problem right there. When you see an army of enemies judging and misunderstanding you, it's time to consult a specialist. You mention that this is a writer's site. Well, your writing is what you are judged on. Say stupid, obnoxious things, and people will go by what you wrote and respond to that, not stopping to access your inner meditative bliss or whatever it is you think they should know about you before they judge.
Anyone, feel free to judge me in your spare time. I kinda like the attention, but can't be assed to start a dust-up.