GaryBaumgarten

GaryBaumgarten
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New York, New York, USA
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Director of News and Programming
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Paltalk.com
Bio
Award winning journalist Gary Baumgarten hosts the News Talk Online show on Paltalk.com. He asks critical questions, and invites people from all around the world to talk directly to his newsmaker guests using Paltalk's voice over IP technology. Gary came to Paltalk as director of news and programming from CNN where he was the radio bureau chief and correspondent in New York for a decade, where he covered, among other things, the 9/11 attacks in New York and Hurricane Katrina. He was previously reporter and assistant news director at CBS all news radio station WWJ in Detroit. Prior to that he was managing editor at Detroit Radio News Service and a reporter for the Jackson (MI) Citizen-Patriot, the Detroit News and a number of weekly newspapers. Paltalk is the largest multimedia interactive program on the Internet with more than 4 million unique users. News Talk Online is also syndicated by CRN Digital Talk Radio to cable systems serving an additional 12 million households.

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FEBRUARY 3, 2009 8:21AM

Taxing Plastic Bags

Rate: 13 Flag




The harsh economic times means less tax dollars collected causing cutbacks in public jobs and services and attempts by governments to find new ways of creating revenue.

In New York City, the mayor is suggesting a tax on plastic bags.

That's right, plastic bags.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg wants to tax you 5 cents each time they put an item you purchase at a store in a plastic bag.

Five cents for each bag of grocery.

Five cents when you want to hide from the prying eyes of passersby what you purchased at a drug store.

Five cents may not seem like a lot of money. But it can add up.

His honor believes five cents times X amount of bags can generate some $85 million dollars for the city of New York.

It brings new meaning and, probably, a new answer, to the question, "plastic or paper?" at the checkout counter.

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We talk about these issues and more every weekday at 5 PM New York time on News Talk Online on Paltalk.com

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This is already slated to start in Toronto in June. Last month, Toronto city council voted in a 5-cent charge for every plastic bag consumers use from a grocery or retail store starting at that time.

And a major supermarket chain here announced 2 weeks ago it's fast-forwarding the agenda by beginning right now to charge 5 cents for every plastic bag at the check-out to help reduce the amount of plastic used.

However, here in Toronto it's not a revenue-generating agenda that's leading the charge. It's all for a green cause and to motivate consumers to change their habits and bring reusable bags when they shop.

(The same vote included a ban on the sale of plastic water bottles at civic centres, effective immediately, and on all municipal premises from city hall to golf courses by 2011.)
Doesn't seem that outlandish to me. It was the norm in South Korea when I moved there in 2002, and the big grocery chains in Canada are implementing a similar charge, though they sell reusable canvas bags very affordably too.

That scene in American Beauty aside, plastic bags are an eyesore. Reusable bags are sturdier, hold more, tend not to wind up as litter and it's really not that hard to keep a few in your car.

Now, if only we could do something about the Tim Horton's cups in Canada. . .
I think it's a great idea. It's not that hard to bring a cloth bag to the stores. I bet it would soon become the norm.

I can hear some customers now though. "Hey, put more stuff in that plastic bag--don't use so many, etc." Then, when those flimsy plastic bags break before they get to the car, they will blame the clerk or store.

Charging for plastic bags is a step in the right direction. I wish our local politicians would be that brave.
Although I'd like to think otherwise, I don't believe for a minute that money collected from a tax on or a charge for plastic bags will go to any green fund. It'll go into corporate or public coffers and never be used to help the ecology, except perhaps for a few highly publicized photo ops.

As for the plastic drinking containers ... I certainly understand the disposal problem, but a ban will just drive people who were drinking healthy water back to unhealthy soda pop.
Aldi's has been doing that for years. They're a German grocery chain with branches in the Midwest, and apparently it's been done at most supermarkets in Germany (not just Aldi's) for decades.

It seems like most places now sell the 99 cent canvas shopping bags, and as a pedestrian/bus rider, I must say they're well worth the money. The ones I've had have lasted over a year and they're still going strong, and unlike the plastic bags, they're comfortable to carry over long distances.

I still get enough plastic bags to use as garbage can liners, and we re-use them at work for customers who buy small photos and carry them out.
How about a .25 cents per bag deposit. It worked on glass soda pop bottles (.o5/.10/.12). Or just eliminate plastic pags completely. Bring your own reusable bag or pay for a paper bag (.25), at the store. Change can be so slow.
5 cents is not nearly high enough. I think $5 per plastic bag would be about right. As everyone here has already pointed out, this would highly encourage cloth bags, which we need to reprogram ourselves to use.
Emm...Ireland didn't "outlaw" the bags...it's just like the rest of Europe, you have to pay for them in the grocery store. Most people use canvas bags. However, at department stores there you still get plastic bags at times, for free. (My husband is from Ireland and we visit yearly)

In Colorado, where I live, the reusables are very common and there is talk about the "pay for" solution, but I don't think it is a tax, rather a reimbursement to the store, which after all, has paid for the bags in the first place. I know Whole Foods and Wild Oats give part of the proceeds to green causes, however.

I don't think that the bags should be as ubiquitous as they are, that is for sure!
I try to use my own reusable bag, but if I'm shopping by car, I leave it in the vehicle (or at home after the last trip) as often as I bring it in with me. When I was in Italy last year, everyone brought their own bags to the supermarket. I thought that was fantastic...until I noticed you were required to put on plastic gloves to pick out your fruit and veggies.
When I lived in Germany with my parents in 1974, the grocery stores were already charging for bags back then. I think it is a terrific idea, and the only way we can put a stop to that waste.
I don't actually hate this idea. I have cloth bags now that I take to the store and use to buy food. Occasionally, I snag a paper bag as well, but that's because paper bags are great for art projects for small children. (And in actuality, paper bags are just as nasty for the environment as plastic, just in a different way.)

Cloth bags are easy. You just pile them into the cart and things to in them. They have nice handles, and you can even buy some with the ability to keep your food cold so that you can do other things before heading home with the ice cream.
It's been the norm in Europe for 10 years... If people cannot learn to be responsible (about anything in general and the environment in particular) without having to financially contribute, then the tax is fair indeed.
When I was living in the ex-USSR, back in the late 1980s, I was sometimes asked for a favor: did I have any plastic bags...to sell? Or give away? People used their briefcase or old canvas shopping bags, so a plastic bag was a luxury Western item.
When my Soviet ex-mother-in-law came to visit me in France, -her first time ever in the West-, in 1990, she decided that the best "memorabilia" she could bring back her girlfriends in Moscow were... empty plastic mineral bottles and plastic grocery bags. She even made money selling some when she returned.
Other times, other customs; other locations, other point of views.
I don't think they should ever make it a revenue source except for things that have need proportional to use of the taxed item. For example, if there was a cost of recycling or of landfill and you taxed them in proportion to that, then as usage went down, the cost of the landfill or the recycling would, so that's ok. But if you put the money to schools (which don't have need proportional to bag use) then the schools will have a cash shortfall in schools at an unexpected time... or else they'll find an incentive to have you use bags to save the school, which is a bit nutty. But as for the idea of a tax itself, I think it's a great idea. All reports are that it has worked elsewhere when tried.
Plastic vs. paper is actually an interesting argument, with elements of goodness on both sides. The issue really comes down to specifics in the area where the choice is made. However, I have never seen a situation where the right choice wasn't the reusable, they're cheaper and better for all concerned. I have no idea what the costs to NY City, the habits of its residents, and the interests of the merchants, bring to bear on such choices, but I'm with the reusable chorus.
What happened to the measure that was supposed to be on the ballot here in California? It would have charged a fee (NOT a tax) of 25 cents per plastic bag. I can't remember where the money was going to go, but I do remember approving of it.

I've been bringing my own shopping bags for years, and more.

Plastic doesn't take thousands of years to break down; it NEVER breaks down. Ever. It breaks up into smaller pieces, but it is still the same stuff and never becomes biomass EXCEPT when it is consumed by a particular type of microbe.

A scientist in Ireland discovered a microbial solution that will actually break down polypropylene plastic (number 5 in the triangle) and a young boy in Canada recently discovered a microbial solution that will break down polyethylene (number 1) in a matter of months.
The catch of course is that a strong enough microbial solution is highly unlikely to occur in nature, and when the microbes do consume the plastic they release a small amount of carbon dioxide.

Anyway, due to the life span of plastics, I have taken many drastic steps to eradicate them from my lifestyle. I now bake my own bread, avoid foods and beverages that come in plastic packaging, and even use wooden toothbrushes.
I'm also making a documentary film about plastic waste.

Anyway, great post!
I think it is a GOOD idea. In our town we get 3 to 10 cents off for each of our own bags we bring but I think it doesn't encourage people to bring their own. I think costing the customer is the only way to get rid of the plastic bags. We see so many collected on fences, trees, etc. when we travel. Our countryside is getting cluttered even with trash pickup. And, why should we be wasting energy picking up plastic bags? They should be outlawed or cost more than a few pennies.
I understand the idea behind charging or taxing plastic bags. All well and good if you have a little money to spare. My problem is that it is my experience that the number of bags that are being dumped into the world could be halved just by having checkers use them wisely. A quick peek at bags sales gave me imprinted bags for $16.99 per 1000. Discounts for larger quantities. That makes the .05 charge per bag add up to a profit of $33.01 per case of 1000 before bulk discounts. This burden is placed on the consumer who is at the mercy of his/her pocket. We could use the money to institute a deposit system like the old glass bottles. Give a consumer reusable bags and charge a deposit if they bring them back they just keep on using them no extra charge. We always seem to think that going green needs to be at the consumers expense totally. I think that the public would be much better served by just dropping disposables and going to a cloth or unwoven type reusable bag with the right effort and an eas deposit system we could achieve the goal of eliminating plastic bag waste.
As is often the case, change can be difficult and seem ridiculous... until you get accustomed to the new norm. My children (heathens, both of them) yell at me each time I forget to bring our (multitudinous) canvas bags to the store.

I make them carry the heavy stuff.
Whole Foods gives you a 5 cent rebate for bringing your own bag.
I'm just wary about relying on something like this as a source of revenue. If people really do switch to reusable bags--desirable behavior and a lot easier than quitting smoking, say--then suddenly the money starts to go and what happens to everything that was funded with this tax?
Great post on an idea should’ve been implemented long ago. Thanks.
Who knows how to survive in days like this, O Momma?
Well, visit the salad sneeze bar. Look around. Shop`left.
Stuff raisons. mashed potato's, pitted olives, and Swiss?
Fill the pockets, and use the lavatory. Have bon appetite.
Plastic bags are an environmental nightmare and, though we think they are, they are not free. They often end up in waterways where they plug up the drain systems and cause a blight in the environment where they have to be retrieved. This adds up to millions of dollars in costs to taxpayers. Further, the store's cost for them is included in the price of your items like all other overhead. Paper bags are just as bad for different reasons. They require far more energy to produce and transport than plastic bags do. It's very simple to avoid a bag fee - use your own bag! Giving up single-use bags is one of the easier "sacrifices" we'll experience in years to come. Once you start using reusable bags, you'll find it's really not even an inconvenience; it's simply a matter of changing habits.

Lynda in Denver
It's not a bad idea, actually. In Ireland they have a similar law - it resulted in no more plastic-bag-trash floating around the streets and everyone reuses the ones they have, or carry cloth.
I am all for a nationwide returnable bottle law.

Hell, the number of poor people that would be scouring the countryside for the bottles would go a long way to save on social services...

The repubs have wanted to kill our bottle law ever sense it started but it's the best welfare plan the republicans could have ever come up with... Sad to say...
My biggest gripe about plastic bags is they are usually too small so they need like ten of them if you go food shopping. Increase the size and you dont need twenty million bags. Even if just to the size of the old paper bags you got a supermarkets. That way you don't have to juggle 8,000 bags with two hands, trying to figure how to get your hands around all of them at the same time.
I live in Tennessee where people are not known for being green. Last year when I switched to reusable, there was a while when people looked at me as if I were from Mars. However, that's beginning to change. I even personally got Krogers to change the programming on its automated checkout so now it lets you use your own bags - before, it would ask you to take the item off the checkout area when you set your bag down. One complaint to corporate later, and it asks if you want to use your own bags before you start, then lets you set them down.
I shop for a big family and I need lots of bags. I have one cloth, easily foldable bag, but every week, I bring home lots of plastic bags, far more than we need as trash can liners.

In England, we had "green" boxes and special grocery carts that took them. They were plastic crates, I used mine for years and still have them, now they're storing sports and gardening equipment. They were easy to clean and durable.

The advantage of the boxes is that you can tell your customer is not hiding something under them, unlike the pile of used bags I used to take the grocery store (before security got tighter and I got tired of proving that I'm stealing).

The problem with reusable glass bottles is transportation costs. They add up. They costs might be lower if all bottles were standard sizes, so a used coke bottle wouldn't look funny with a beer label on it. But plastic is really light.