1. No one wins online fights.
2. Anger makes you stupid.
3. Euripides: "Where two discourse, if the one's anger rise, The man who lets the contest fall is wise"
4. This? this activated phosphor/LED stimulation? Not real. But we are real people behind these letters, these words. Fearful, gorgeous, fallible humans. All of us made mud pies once, long ago, and shared our favorite digging stick with whoever plopped down next to us.
5. Be fierce with your thinking, not with each other.
6. Bringing up killing someone over POSTS is stupid beyond all space and time, and disqualifies you, period, full stop.
7. True Believers are a colossal waste of time. So are Haters.
8. I saw the most beautiful thing the other day: sunset coming under the trees on a maple that still had an understory of lime green, beneath a crown of brilliant red. The green suffused the red. It made me remember waiting at the bus with one of my daughters, Rocky, and how she used to do this boxing/ballet/screwball dance thing as we stood together, in the autumn light, the suffused green and red of early morning.
9. Suffer no fool. But don't increase suffering.
10. Say your piece, without personal invective. Then give it up. Let them "win". The right people will get it.
R E L E V A N T P O S T S
Be kinder but sharper: an OS manifesto
oops
a_n_d__b_r_e_a_t_h_e
anger makes you stupid. so marry well
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Seer
daisyjane
The Good Daughter
Chicken Mãâàn
the traveler
Ashley F. Miller
Salon.com
Comments
here's another one: If you feel self-righteous, your Self is wrong.
Self-righteous is always Self-wrongteous.
(hm. maybe too cute.)
Put out your point and you'll usually be pretty surprised by the number of people who agree with you. There will be those who don't. They'll either not say anything at all or they'll make a statement. It's up to them to make that statement wisely to support their side.
There are discussions. And then there are arguments. It's up to those involved to decide when it gets to the point of argument.
;-P
Thank you for your timely post on this. Amen! I was just thinking about some of the furious posts and beefs that I've read on some of the comment threads and was profoundly disappointed as I watched some of this forum's sharpest thinkers fall prey to one of the world's oldest temptations. You strike me as a sobering presence and I thank you for posting. Rated!
wskrz: even argument, in the classical sense, is ok, methinks. Dare to say, even dare to dispute. But pretend the person is in the room. pretend they are someone who one saved your dog's life. Pretend they are much stronger and bigger than you, even. just get their humanity in front of you, and your word choices, however passionate, will be informed by subtle, profound, differences.
Damn hard when the person in question is a Hater. But especially them (reminding myself, especially, here).
Ray: Yeah! (ok buddy, its on now, better duck, comin atcha like hurricane hank, no way back on that kind of remark, watch your back!) he he.
scanner: yep. ironic, ranting on peace, eh? thanks.
Jeremiah: yowzuh. but if i knew it would be THE ten, set in stone, i would have included something about not wearing your pants half off your ass. Talkin to YOU, li'l Wayne.
Redstocking: ugliness seems to always explode. and so hard to un-explode.
Agnostic: yeah, these most recent ones include some of the most psychotic and frightening and rabid EVER on OS. not good.
Verbal: tnx. good to seeya.
JK, Trig, spotted, lainey: Thanks!
Beth: yep. the hard part.
New: my point was to not invest yourself in winning, as the goal. It is a fool's errand, on- and off-line.
I don't think it likely that random extremes of name-calling, etc., by other bloggers/commentors, even here in the hallowed halls of OS, is going to be given a great deal of weight by potential employers. My larger point is: it dies off quickly if you don't add your own pile of dead twigs to it.
Let it go, is my point, especially if it becomes threats, ad hominem attacks, sneering contempt,etc. And then there won't be much to worry about viz employers. It's the internet. Grain of salt.
Our OWN writings are far more problematic, especially if we threaten, sneer, malign, act juvenile. People DO pay attention to that.
I looked back over my writing and don't quite see how you get that I "make this out to be harmless". Cross-chatter is as harmless as the substance of the chatter, generally, But again, that is why we should resist the siren of "get him!" and "win!" and "not me, you!"
And the falling-in-love-with-our-own-bed-farts that is the vicious, well-crafted, "devastating" retort.
I don't think Al Quaeda using the net to organize actual terror cells, resources, plans, etc., is a fair comparison to mere sniping cross-comments on a site like OS. A bit of overkill in the comparison there, methinks. I'm just saying.
More buried treasure. The very best thing about the internet and OS in particular is the chance of coming upon these sparks in the darkness. Thank you.
Good advice!
Stella: excellent point: our best motivation for being decent with each might be selfish ones. s'ok. whatever works.
Ash: GREAT cartoon. Reminds me of new Yorker cartoon i love: Writer sits at desk with all stuff precisely in place, thinks: "OK. pencil sharpened, pad at 34 degree angle, window open 1", coffee hot...hmmm. maybe TOO hot."
Y Heron: thanks
Suzn: i blush. thanks.
Con: except you write so damn funny/so well! and clearly you put everything/anyone in your sly sights, so no one takes it too personally...
Steve: Agnes Moorehead vs Steve Reeves was a fight like no other, too. If Steve hadn't tripped on his bicep...sigh.
This is a good list of perspectives, each one seemingly contributing something just a little different in the overall message.
As I was reading through the list, one thing kept distracting me, so I thought I would share it; it was point number 2:
“Anger makes you stupid.”
I understand the idea behind that statement, but the statement itself is a little too inclusive for me. People often overact when they are angry, but not always. And sometimes it is the attempt to repress anger that makes one stupid. Certainly there are situations in which anger is the appropriate response. How we interpret and express the anger is the problem, not the anger itself, and it seems to me that would be true of all emotions.
Hopefully I am not merely being a distraction myself; I found this to be a thoughtful and valued post.
RATED
I think anger can be justified. I became angry that someone was making allegations without providing a shred of evidence to support them. I know for a fact that they are not true. I became angry when I learned that despite pleas to the contrary from the central figure, this individual insisted on re-opening an old incident simply to score points in a political argument that turned personal.
I believe in standing up for truth, justice and for my friends. Sometimes anger propels that.
Stellaa and Feed the Cat -- you are right, too, and your comments made me laugh.
Rick (and in part Emma): Yeah this is a tricky bit, and I love your thoughtful comments onit. I was raised on Fritz Perls and value owning one's anger, to work thru rather than hide away. Still applies.
But there have been two studies, one recent and well-designed, that actually shows our abilities with various tests diminishes when we are angry. So tis literally true: some critical faculties give way.
I think certain kinds of anger seems to sharpen the mind, but only if we are master of the sensation and stay conscious. And to some degree I think that "sharpness" might be a useful biological illusion, giving us decisiveness when we need it. But not necessarily better judgement, objectively
We should never deny our anger. Leads to emotional constipation and worse. But not denying and indulging it are two different things. When we decide someone else has less humanity in order to feel our anger in a more satisfying way? NG.
And I know with my kids: they expect Dad to be angry at times, and measure their freedom to act out or test people or take advantage by how effectively and naturally i allow my anger to be expressed. They practice being good citizens. Less is more in this, tho.
The most sparkling examples of anger being channeled right have always been, to me, when someone still acts with deliberation, allows their feelings to show, but guides/is guided by their compassion, always.
Emma: I have read and seen, what u speak of, today and yesterday. It was one of the motivations for this post. i don't judge. Being flawed myself and all.
But the seduction of getting it "right" is what i address here, invite discussion on. Sometimes it is bitter gall indeed. When a bully starts a fight, teacher says "both of you the corner". We KNOW we were done wrong.
But disengage is what works, for me. Even, especially when, it persists, and Right is seemingly kicked to the gutter.
Almost everyone can suddenly see better, pull back, reflect. It happened to me -- happens to me. An ongoing struggle. The Dalai Lama once casually mentioned how he still gets irritated, irrationally angry at times. Grumpy. Fierce even. And he is professionally groovy!
So trust, perhaps that many of us see What is What. And let it go, perhaps. As you see fit. some things can't be "won", set Right.
Deleted Person: please return and post. I deleted your posts only because they carry into this Post a pointless snipe war. Raise your issues here, if you like -- but CIVIL, always.
I declare this fair and open to all who make the minimum effort. See New Blog above: i know he is "engaged" with some folks in angry ways, but his post here is expressed without Cruelty or War. Thus: allowed.
And when you've received 4, now 5 PMs from women who claim the reason he was banned the first time ws for stalking them?
I just showed yours.
sorry my response is/was so late - I hadda' run out for coffee and ciggies
Mark's last post/suggestion seems prudent, for what it's worth.
Any of us, seemingly, could be in your shoes. Or have been, some of us..
But what seems very likely is this: neither of you are bad guys. These things get a life of their own. Walk away. Meditate on it later, each in your own way. Everyone benefits.
“But there have been two studies, one recent and well-designed, that actually shows our abilities with various tests diminishes when we are angry.”
I doubt that we needed any “studies” to tell us this; I didn’t. And I have something to add to this, as well. Anger is not the only “emotion” that has this effect on us. Depression/sadness will often have the same effect. And I recall times being infatuated with a girl and that emotion also interfered with my ability to perform on various tests.
I think the above would also apply to your statement; “I think certain kinds of anger seems to sharpen the mind, but only if we are master of the sensation and stay conscious. And to some degree I think that "sharpness" might be a useful biological illusion, giving us decisiveness when we need it. But not necessarily better judgement, objectively”.
I think one could replace “anger” in your statement with almost any other emotion and it would still read just as accurately.
You write, “…not denying and indulging it are two different things […]The most sparkling examples of anger being channeled right have always been, to me, when someone still acts with deliberation, allows their feelings to show, but guides/is guided by their compassion, always.”
This seems in keeping with my comment that the point is how we interpret and express the anger.
JK Brady,
You write, “There was a recent study that found that one minute of anger has a negative impact on your immune system that lasts 6 hours…”.
To me, the interesting point in that is the issue of whether or not one can choose to be angry. Now, I am speaking in general circumstances, not only the situation of online interaction. The fact is that anger is an emotion, which occurs before conscious thought, which we use to interpret and express the anger. So, feeling the anger happens regardless of whether, or how, we express it, the key issue being HOW we express it. Repressing it will prolong experiencing the anger, thus compounding its negative effects. So it is important to deal with anger in some way that allows one to stop feeling it.
It is an interesting distinction you make, though, with regards to expressing anger in the “blogosphere” (the issue in this post) and the fact that it stays out there. Good point; all the more reason to be careful about how it is expressed.
I have a VERY powerful IMac and can have three open salon windows open at the same time. I am also a stock market researcher, so there is always a real time ticker window on-line; and various and other sundry windows,
If everone is talking about the church murder, it may be totally an unpreticious (wd,? sp.?) time for me to post an anti^tore post, so I wait.
potatoes, tomatoes and carrots sold in two-packs @$2 to $4 per,
torture
never ending wars.
Gaza,
etc.
rated
I will now go out to find my #8.
Good post, Greg.
Amen
I love #8
I agree with you both.
Thank you Greg.