Convolutions ahead.
But OS, the internet, all of human interactivity is defined by convolution, and the consequences, good and bad. If we struggle with convolution, and solve it, we solve all. Yes?
As if we could.
In a recent post, itself a post about other posts in which battles raged, I was first to comment. (My comment is pasted in at the end, for reference.)
Someone else made a comment about my comment. Here it is:
"W/out reading any of the other comments it seems to me Greg Correll's comment comes across as arrogant, pompous, elitist. Who defines what is OS? no one. As you cannot define the culture in America exclusively so you cannot on here. Like what you like...dislike what you dislike...laugh at what's funny...anger at what gets you mad...repudiate what makes you feel repugnant, just do it for your own self. Don't listen to anyone else to show you the way."
I agree: no one defines, by fiat. Not that some don't try. Even your comment does. Who says the rule is "no one"? If absolute anarchic freedom, baldly asserted here, is to be respected, then even Larry the Friendly Fascist is allowed, to define away, at will!
No soup for you!
How do we escape the moebius treadmill that is our own assertions following our own self-blindness following our own self-certainty following our own real ability following our own assertions?
After dwelling with it, within it, considering it, I started to write a comment in response to this "denunciation" of me. It got too large. I would have abused the comment privilege on the original post. OK that is convoluted, too, but is it not pertinent? What is correct, here, on OS?
So I make this convoluted post. Because i am admired, beloved (ha!). How dare (s)he? (double ha!).
Here goes: I have examined myself. You say "arrogant, pompous, elitist"
Ouch.
Hm. That hurts, so I'll change the subject for a moment first, stay abstract: generally, I think I have sufficient caveats and qualifiers in my comment, so I am not convinced that I say anything like I "define" OS. It is just my opinion. Like yours. Or is it? What is it I don't see?
I might be fooling myself. I am always surprised, every year, at what I couldn't see the year before. I guess I "assert" here. I speak with a kind of self-assigned authority, one COULD say.
I think it's just me trying to balance speaking boldly -- as you do -- with an impressive amount of humility (again Ha! -- hell: just assume Ha!s apply from here on in, otherwise this could get tiresome).
Clearly, you think I fail at this. OK. With you I do.
But perhaps I really do fail. What if I am fooling some, thus myself, in a circular, logrolling roundabout, of self-importance, glib complacency?
What happens if I really take this on, these critiques, examine myself?
OK. Sure. Why not?
"arrogant" -- umm...allll right. Sometimes, I guess, still. Rarely on OS, but even here, sometimes. I feel humbled by life, by health, by responsibilities. By the extraordinary, improved persons that are my children.
The Dalai Lama admits to frequent crossness, anger, dishonesty, brusque arrogance. It is human. And I like him for his honesty; it helps me do better. So yes: I am arrogant at times, and will probably always succumb to it, at times -- perhaps even today, thinking I can universalize all this! -- and I will always be playing catch-up with myself.
"pompous" -- this is pretty subjective, so I give this to you, too. I don't think I am TOO pompous -- read my posts (ha! a pompous self-promotion!) and I think you might amend your opinion.
But maybe not.
I think in the real world I am not pompous. I have learned to forego myself, most of the time, in favor of easing others, giving comfort even if I could promote myself or be "right" or prove myself "smarter". The sacrifices I make for my children for 33 years are epic (damn, two of three! arrogant AND pompous! Shit. This is hopeless, isn't it?)
But I feel I grow less pompous, because the essence of pomposity is a kind of "winning", and usually, I have learned, winning is an illusion.
Being compassionate is better. But then you might take all of this as more proof that my pomposity is all the grander for my subtleties, for the careful detailing of my better qualities, and you might be right.
Writing is essentially a selfish thing. We even present the worst we do with a kind of qualified nobility ("see how raw and honest I am?")
Damn.
"elitist" - big Yes and big No to this. Big No in that all humans suffer, and I know compassion is the first, ultimate, and only good response. I have passed this test, at last.
I have sidestepped, for many years now, the battles and and pointless fights, not just because we can't win them (online? never; my first point up, er, down there), but because if there is an elite we all belong to it, and it is equal to the lowest of us, all the impoverished and mean-spirited and meagre positions, too.
In other words, we all share a common humanity of suffering and striving that makes us all the same, and all of us worthy of compassion.
That said, the big Yes? I believe in meritocracy. I believe in intelligence and ability and the great accomplishments of glorious humanity. I believe smart people -- with compassion -- should lead us. I think some art is better than other. That scientists are smarter than creationists.
We are not all precious and equal snowflakes. Some of us are further behind, dull-witted, lacking in natural abilities, etc, etc.
Now we are at the nub. Here is where I write, then delete. Then do it again.
I fail. I am such a phony, still.
I deleted here some deep paper-cut lines, aimed at you. You hurt my feelings. I feel defensive. I feel superior to you. I also have these opinions about you: __ ___ ___, _____ ______, and _________ __ _______.
I cannot find a way to allow them in, because they rob the piece of light.
I must confess to this: I am very, very good at insults. I can do so in ways that might take years for someone to get it, if they ever do. It is weirdly revealed, once you embrace compassion and not winning: if you no longer care about surpassing, prevailing, hey! you can say things that are all the sweeter because YOU know you "won", and they might never know. Or if they ever find out, it will be too late.
Resisting this temptation is very, very hard, for me.
This is ALL so effing hard. Avoiding passive-aggressive, thinking too highly of ourselves, feeling self-righteous, indulging the infliction of the slyest pain, retaliating. Thinking our moral high ground, our intelligence, our goodness, all our other points balance anything, justify the insults and the caustic and corrosive craft that pretends to be me just schoolin' you?
Geez Louise. This whole piece is exactly that, and yet an honest attempt. at once; the best and worst of me. I am sorry,___ ______ ___. I am a jerk.
Let's not give up. Let's realize all this, and just de-convolute some, with the understanding that it will be imperfect.
Flawed though it might be, I stand by my formula down there, not because it is the only way for OS, but because it gives us a working method: Say your piece, perhaps one more time to clarify, then retreat gracefully.
Any after those few? become sniping, from the false and cruel internet distance, and "saying your piece" becomes inflicting wounds.
After much effort I have honed my natural talents. I write pretty well. (OK, stylistically I am too florid, at times, so I regularly choose to write bare, spare descriptions. To keep my Thomas Wolfe / Walt Whitman side in check.)
But I distrust my intentions, I check myself. I fail at this, I know. Usually. But at all times I struggle with my heart. My compassion.
My impression is you are young; I might be wrong. I arrogantly say: I want more compassion from you. I see only a little of it here, and in your posts and other comments.
You are smart, and are spreading your wings, trying on Authoritative Voice. I get that; I do it, too.
But I invite you to reconsider what I wrote. Flawed as it is, as I am, I advocate for forbearance and generosity with each other, and avoiding long pointless argument.
Not from arrogance, but because I used to do otherwise, and was other than wise.
Anger grows more anger.
Sorting things out, deliberating, allowing some space to each other, is a Good Thing.
____________________
My original comment, that triggered the comment back:
"No one wins online fights. We are all susceptible to snark or self-righteous, and lack of compassion.
But trust: there is a large core of us. We network behind the scenes in a totally random, unorganized way, supporting each other, finding new writers, encouraging, damping down each other's human hunger to munch down bags of Irritat-os by the handful.
You show here you are One Of Us. the tribe that is:
1. able to write cogent, honest, unaffectedly about real stuff
2. Seeking more compassion
3. Resisting the urge to splatter more mud, stir it up.
I wrote a piece called (shoot what was it, have to go look it up) -- "Be Kinder, but Sharper: an OS manifesto " way way back. I have since seen many similar from lots of OSrs
Here's a partly selfish suggestion: look at my last 10 pieces, the personal ones. Don't even read them (well... ok. if you really want to). Just look at the comments, and most of all, FAVORITE these people and read theirs. This is the struggling, beating heart of OS.
Or just go right to Steve Blevins recent post with "heart" in the title that got like a zillion ratings, read it, then favorite all of them and read theirs.
Poison is concoctable out of thin air, everywhere, but: we Whos are here, Horton."
____________________
My other, earlier attempts to say all this. I pompously think to promote my writing!
____________________
"We preserve our illusion of central position. If we all knew just how unimportant we are in the cosmos, we would just lie down and die" -- Robert Ardry
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Now, of course, I must try to find the post - is it the one where I called everybody WRONG except me? if so, the poster might have been angry at ME!! - for it might be someone I liked. Probly not, tho, as I tend to gravitate toward those who are inclusive as opposed to inner-circle tribal elders. ;>\ (r)
Damn. See?
We are only as good as we are in our posts here, Clark. You quickly became liked and admired because you are a Godd Egg, can write, and show generosity. Other writers are liked specifically becaasue they are cranky. BUT: they are accepted, even beloved. This is very hard to define. What is it that comes thru for some, not for others?
Your comment is valuable, Clark, at least to me. I like that you spoke so directly. I feel trusted. S'cool.
I thought your suggestions good ones...ones I had already put into practice to some extent. Other OS commenters have been the basis of finding my favorite writers here.
When you're young, you crave excitement and controversy; it makes you feel alive to stir the pot and assert your opinions as if they were fact. Some people never outgrow that proclivity! As I've grown older, I appreciate peace and contentment much more.
I have one other rule I try to practice...within OS as in any Zoo: I don't feed the beasts. (R)
This I think is what the great black cauldron boils down to, a very simple plea: "for forbearance and generosity with each other, and avoiding long pointless argument."
You're a perfectly imperfect human being and writer extraordinaire. Don't change a thing.
I'm intrigued though. What post bore this judgement? I missed it.
Do i feed the beast here? hmm. Well I will do so within my own ground rules: i say piece, might engage just a bit, then let it go.
Scanner: Ha! indeed. There is something to say for a certain blither disregard. But I note you follow the M.Mckenzie"s advice and move on/don't feed the beast.
Loved your recent ancient pot piece by the way. Gave me a contact high.
Even I deserve my compassion. Ha?
Thank you.
Like calling someone narcissistic. WTF does that mean? It means anything from narcissistic personality disorder in DSM IV to someone that takes better care of themselves than I do.
Some critical remarks are better left alone, since denial can only give the attack more credibility.
The late southern senator, George Smathers was said to have called his opponent a philatelist and his sister a noted Thespian.
Just call the other person Passive Aggressive and let it go.
R
And I am the same, viz the "crash": i confess tried to find the dustup that started the post on which my comment triggered that comment, er, on.
I am happy to say I gave up without finding it...sort of. I still sort of want to see it. We are PERVERSE apes.
But it also Matters. Kosevo, Darfur, the Congo, Lebanon -- how we engage, then peacefully disengage? really matters. And as Tocqueville observed, with such eloquent dismay, how could it be that Americans, who have it so good, have unique Freedom, how can they be so surly and combative and unappreciative?
Why do we settle for less, when we fought for and got history first defensible, well-resourced deliberative democracy? Why don't we perfect deliberating?
He faulted too much abundance. Too many goods, not enough Good. He was, and is, exactly right.
So I make the effort. Nonetheless, part of the Answer is contained in your response: in moving on, keeping perspective. Thank you.
Well Greg, I'm just going to copy my comment that came shortly after yours:
When the lovely Greg says, "Irritat-os", I don't think he's talking about me even though that word is oddly simliar ... ! heehee! But his words are true. There are many here who choose to glide past the stressors and just keep plugging away at crafting something that lasts. Do not allow anyone to steal your joy, in life or on OS, that is just too tragic. Joy exists to lift us up and when we find it in something we ourselves can produce, the gift is so divine ... no one has the power to take that from you.
Listen to Greg and to the lovely Walkawayhappy ~ go read my wonderful Dr. Steve Blevins ... the joy far outweighs the "other".
I hope you have a perfectly beautiful day!
*****
I stand firm. I will say it again. Your words are true. I do not find them arrogant or pompous or elitist. I find them soothing, lovely, redemptive. Your genuine kindness shown to someone who stated, " I'm not going to even touch on the two sides of that argument. It would only have the potential to set off another firestorm if word got out through the OS grapevine" and then titled their piece in such a provocative manner (to draw the very firestormers she criticized) was not out of place at all. If it should be called anything, perhaps "experienced" is the appropriate adjective.
Regardless ~ I am endeared to you always for your integrity and character and respect for humanity, for your art - each carefully chosen word and turn of phrase. You are true. And when you're not, you are reflective enough to reset the dials. If this is pomposity or arrogance - I just have to say that I. Fucking. Love. It.
xo
It is hard enough to write on OS without having to worry about being attacked. And if we ARE worried about how people will respond to our writing, then we limit & censor our writing, & when we limit & censor our writing it becomes something else, something less honest, something all scary-eager-to-please.
Of course, having a deep need to be "liked" I am constantly rewriting comments & stressing over them before I hit "post this comment" -- I am terrified of offending someone or coming across as "arrogant" so I edit & edit & sometimes write two paragraphs & then hit "cancel."
We all, as writers, have the evil inner critic cackling at our words, & as human beings who may have had not-particularly-idyllic childhoods, we also may have the words of deranged adults mingling with our inner critic so that every single click of the keys is insecure inner child time & it takes Big Courage to hit "post."
So...where was I...thanks for dealing with this, Greg. And really -- I enjoy your Walt Whitman side.
I could not agree more with most of what you say, than, well, than I do.
"I believe in meritocracy. I believe in intelligence and ability and the great accomplishments of glorious humanity. I believe smart people -- with compassion -- should lead us. I think some art is better than other. That scientists are smarter than creationists."
Particularly this, above. Damn, I'm tired of defending our President's educational level? His personal "voice".
Damn, I'm tired of dumbing down how I speak in certain gatherings. I write these letters to the Dots' teachers and get told - by the Dots - that I sound pompous. I say, No, I'm just COMMUNICATING. They say, No, you're pissing off our teachers.
Damn.
thanks, Greg. Someday, someday, may we have a lost weekend up there in those beautiful 'skills. We can sort through out all this dross and make it shine.
(A tip of the hat to you Greg for bringing this onto your own turf to air out your thoughts...would that others could do the same)
In the old National Lampoon magazine they ran a cartoon: a giant hot dog, checking his mail at his mailbox, with a puzzled look on his face as he holds a flyer; caption: "you may already be a wiener!"
I am a wiener sometimes. And I am hot-doggin' it here, to some degree. But I also mean this, and glad you do too: compassion.
Are you "arrogant, pompous, elitist?" Is your comment? Hell if I know. Does it strike me that way? No - today I am in a relatively balanced, clear-headed state, and read it in balance with everything else I have seen of yours here - comments and posts.
Had I read it completely in context, or within the mental rubble which is sometimes a part of my psychology, or after having a fight with my boss, or whatever, would it strike me differently? Unlikely, but possible . . . we communicate, in all forms, through the filters present at any given moment.
Knowing this, we strive for compassion. And Greg, all the evidence suggests to me that you strive for compassion in all things. Do we achieve it at all times? No. But we strive.
And evil inner cackling critic -- i like that. Our EICC. It even sounds like that: EEEE-yichh!
dirndl: o my wake has flotsam. jetsam too. But thank you.
Connie! lengthy AND convoluted. I am amazed anyone waded thru it. it is self-indulgent, methinks.
...and WOW do i agree re the dumbing down. I simply adore how I can say stuff here on OS and that's it. Just say. People will get it. I mean, the Main Thing (besides Steve Blevins' Heart post) is this: "what's so funny about piece love and understanding?"
But close behind it is is: "What's so funny about diction, learning and vocabulary?")
And i think I will dust off that Mohonk Retreat post and see if we get a dozen who can do a workshop day in May! Wouldn't it be loverly? Thank you.
Gabby: well i'm not sure my shoes go with this skirt but you're a dear (air kiss). And not every guy can pull off this hat but on me? it just works.
And i guess that's a point, too, so long as we're tinkering (gasp) with 'rules' (the temerity! heaven forfend!): If we're gonna go on and on and defend, explain, rationalize, wring our aprons, take someone to task? at least do it on your own blog. Good one. Thank you.
Owl: "so easy to think we know" -- it's a survival skill, biologically: better to be fairly certain that's a leopards eyes, that pattern in the grass. The ones who hesitated too long to make judgments? lunch for carnivores, didn't procreate so much.
"mental rubble" -- love that. And it does change day to day, eh?
Strive is close enough for jazz. Thank you.
Dr. Spudman: what a wonderful comment. Anything? Give me another 10 years, and maybe. (I do have an old piece I could dust off, on crook-neck squash. I probably need to edit it first.)
I admit this is what passes for classy attack. Does that negate it? Hmm. I clutch, take umbrage. But i have he right to be compassionate AND a bit fierce, too, eh? Every word counts, when one tries to do that.
And computers are like cars; we climb behind the wheel/keyboard and tend to become more indifferent, more callous -- unless we learn and guard against it. And that means remembering every car/post has another breathing soul is just another Us. Me. I. You.
Thank you.
We are all mirrors, and reflect what people see in themselves and ofttimes fear the most. Have faith in your substance. You won't find it in other people's opinions.
But OS is different. We have the keys to the good car here. It is worth all our effort, i think, to forge this, to sort it out. We are mostly good and smart here, and understand, as you show here, that there is a pattern to all this.
But we are not doomed to repeat it forever. The internet is still astonishing new. If not us, who? If not now, when?
And we are so tantalizingly close. I read the comments on Steve blevins heart post blog, and for some others & some of mine, and I see a smart core community that is large, patient, and at times? fearsomely talented and focused. Thank you.
I find it humorous for people, in general, to complain about "elitism" at the same time that the Winter Olympic Games are beating American Idol in ratings. What are the Olympics if not a celebration of the athletically elite? Jeopardy has been one of the most popular syndicated shows for years. Does anyone believe the audience is made up of only PhDs? In our youth, weren't most of us told some variation of "learn from the best?" Find a good teacher or mentor. How many dream of winning an Oscar, playing pro ball, becoming President, making a boatload of money, accepting a Nobel Prize (if I don't win that Peace Prize this year, I'm fracking going to nuke Stockholm) or some other high achievement? Generally speaking, striving to be the best, i.e. one of the elite, is encouraged in America.
Being "elite" comes into conflict with the American ideal of "all men are created equal." Significant segments of the population have a distrust of "eggheads." Science is held in suspect. So, when "elitist" is used as a pejorative, there's usually an anti-intellectual tint included.
And this comment's going on too long.
Love you. Period. If you need me to kick some ass, just point. Kidding. You do fine on your own.
Still, you think too much, Mr. Smarty McSmarty pants! Kisses, hugs, and a big pat on the rear (Oh! Now, don't over think that either!) Really. Love you just as you are.
All I would have said was when you accidentally step in shit, you should back up and take another course! Oh yeah and clean your shoes!
I like what you said better!!!
This is just what I find when I check myself: am i telling the truth?
As I just said in a PM about this post: There is no disguising, no matter how I "loft", that he cut me to the quick.
But I almost always let it go. And I am already glad I didn't this time. For one, it helps me to grapple with this, and in public, where I want to beat everyone to as many of my self-deceptions as possible.
But also because the first comment, from ClarkK, showed me just how easy it is to fool ourselves about the glaring obvious.
And finally: because a couple of times I have made the effort, and seen someone climb back down, and reach a good place with me, just because i kept myself in check. I think the person in question is one of those: a smart, ambitious writers who might just sort things out.
And I love reconciliation and deliberation that doesn't compromise integrity SO MUCH. America needs it it more than anything else right now.
And I do, too: it helps me be a good father.
i like your long comment. Some things are worth talking about and your cross-connects are apt. America is conflicted about "elite", as you say. But ability and achievement must be recognized and rewarded, especially if it benefits the many. Or just sounds good. I watch American idol because sooner or later another for-real Ella or Joni or Elvis will knock down their door, and won't it be fine? Thank you.
(Please don't nuke Sweden. It will make them even MORE depressed)
Graceilou! Yes. I do. I am working on it though. I garden every summer, and have been known to spend as much as 4 hours not thinking anything, except: "this wheelbarrow full of manure is too heavy. Next trip I will put in less."
But I never do.
Thank you. XOX
Glib? You? Never. (I picked that particular word out because it screams NOT GREG!.) Your verbal skills are superior. To paint this detailed, nuanced, discriminating picture is to hone truth to its marrow. You can't get any closer; it doesn't get any sharper. And yet, it's maddeningly not sharp enough. There's the faintest hint of opaqueness that will never go away. You're as good as it gets, though. As good as it gets. Don't you know? The Truth doesn't actually exist.
Lunchlady: someone I respect once said to me if you want to do good you don't always have to have clean hands. Just be damns sure to put on clean gloves.
"back up, take another course" -- I don't know, that's pretty damn good, has brevity, moreso than my convoluted stuff up there.
__
and hey isn't the Wrath of Khan pic just too perfect? he said, begging the question
Thanks for sharing your feelings. I plan to read everything you've ever written.
But I take your point: Everything is opaque, a biut off. not wuite what it sems. If the Dalai Lama were 100% he would wear old jeans, go on the road, help as many as he could, one to one. He chooses to be 98% because it feels good to be the Dalai Lama, and he believes, with some justification, that living in his his Role is effective. More effective.
But we owe it to all who follow to hone it to the bone, yes? Because we see how hard this all is. And we have learned a few things. And it might -- might -- ease the suffering for who we are evolving into.
And so many others manned and womanned the barricades for us, for millennia, on the slimmest dream of a better world.
Maybe they don't agree with the "beating heart" metaphor...or feel they, themselves, to be another part of the OS body...the neurons, the liver, the lungs or the left toe? Who knows?
Being a person who has, through most of my life found myself NOT at the "cool kids" table, and on the periphery rather than the center, I can see how your comment may have hit someone who did not know you. Alas...they need but read any of your posts to see how wrong their judgment was. You remain my sempai...and I continue to grow through your journey here...keep writing about it!
Plus I will send Everyone to your site at least once.
But you might want to skip that one piece. Also that one other piece. I'm a better writer now. But except for those two ALL of the rest of them are definitely great. Especially the last 10. (ha?)
And I figured a picture of Steve yelling would make people at least start even the most convoluted piece. Thank you.
ttfn: Yeah, then we share that. i grew up with such meanness. I overdo(?) the focus on compassion because I see what Good has produced in my splendid children and want it for the whole world, one day at a time. Thank you.
Everybody. Me and thee. Here's another pearl: the original Hebrew meaning of sin simply meant "missing the mark".
We must notice what's true about ourselves, good and bad, learn and move on. But we must notice. And the people we irritate? usually zero in on the bits we'd prefer to doll up, or ignore. Thank you.
yekdeli: yes, and this is not trivial what Clark saw, bless 'im: I have been on the outside more often than on the in. It feels bad. And it's illusory, of course. In 100 years we are all unread stones. But even now, we are fickle, and the "in group" here is always in ebb and flow, based on temporary circumstances.
Years ago i swore i would read everything Mary T and gracielou ever posted, because they were so supportive when I arrived. i didn't. Nonetheless I feel such affection for them and appreciate the clarity and Voice and authenticity they both have. We forgive and forebear.
NO one gets all the reading they deserve (and some, like Harry's Ghost and Dorinda Fox, deserve 50 times the readership they have!!!)
But even so: write well, have a core, have some kind of heart, and even if you are snarky and cranky you will find your way here. Arguably one of the five cleverest writers on OS is the former Verbal Remedy, Denise Montgomery, who is WICKED funny, and I mean jawcracking sly and smooth and original -- but she has SUCH heart.
And good points about liver. Spleen, of course, yes? Just because I like heart, etc.
Maria is my sempai (a few posts ago) so I thank you for the honor of that. I channel. I am a good father.
(I was cool for about 37 minutes, in 1968)
voicegal: thank you
_
I am off to eat dinner and toshovel in the dark but I will respond later, or tomorrow morning, if any more comments come in. Because I appreciate them and I always respond and I like to write.
You also support a lot of writing that is out of the mainstream while practicing your own artistry and craft. I admire you for that.
Most of all I love seeing people, everyone, writing their hearts out in response to something like this.
This makes my heart happy, Greg! ( And that's selfish but, y'know, I never said I wasn't!)
I am with you.
Write, read, rate, appreciate, ignore. That's my continuing plan.
is the Rosendale Cafe still open? I'm jonesin' for some veggie chili.
"I am off to eat dinner and toshovel in the dark" in my peripheral vision, and thought, "What, is he Russian? Is that Hebrew? What's 'toshovel' anyhow? I'm so confused!"
{sigh}
such tsuris...
What Steven said.
I wish we all could build up our skins a bit here (which includes me). I just don't take that many people that seriously here - only the ones I have cultivated a relationship with beyond posting comments. Those are few and far between.
Arrogant, pompous, etc? Yes! Aren't we all at times? And, what is WRONG with that? Everyone is so busy judging they don't take the time to stop and listen and reflect what they accuse their brother of they probably hold themselves. That is why the Dali Lama can cop to it - I also don't remember him saying he was ashamed of such things.
You are beloved my friend. Please treat yourself this way forevermore.
One day an old Native American grandfather was talking to his grandson. He said, "There are two wolves fighting inside all of us -
the wolf of fear and hate, and the wolf of love and peace."
The grandson listened, then looked up at his grandfather and asked, "Which one will win?"
The grandfather replied, "The one we feed."
Cheers, Scarlett
I appreciate what a peacemaker you are Greg. It makes it easy to disagree with you and love you at the same time, though today, I think we agree completely about this subject.
XOX
Your posts are always intelligent and informative. I enjoy your sense of humor. I especially love your personal stories. You're one of my favorite OS writers.
Thanks and Rated.
KAAAHN!!!!!
___
stephen: excellent points, well said. And ALWAYS better to just write. thank you.
aim: raw is ok, claw is not.
I love supporting writers. I love having been and still being supported. Root is such a good word; the nourishing hidden branch, and it also means to hope for someone, with energy.
I root for rootin' tootin' writers!
And I am learning how much this reveals about me. In ways not intended. S'cool.
And 2 days of looking thru i phone w/ no power (!) to comment? to see and consider all these brave responses? s'way cool.
thank you.
dyno: I cannot find fault with what you list here. You persuade. And for the most part i follow your line.
But once in a while I see an opening. A few times, it works. To reach out, to see bend when i bend, to be allowed when I allow first. These are all opportunities.
worth it. ( thank you.)
BuffyW: and what did we miss, never finding the origin of this, u and I? nothing we haven't seen before.
A good and reasonable Plan. thank you.
jimmy! i know, it's not terribly original of me. Common sense wrapped in my floridity; -- but i think poetic touches inspire, eh?
As always I like your straightforward lines. And the cut of your jib. Arr.
Connie: weekend it is! we'll schedule workshop on Sat, so some can arrive fri, leave sunday, and just hang. Cool.
Yep, Rosendale still open, and New Paltz has LOTS of good new restaurants.
toshovel = ai, you know that pain? no the other one. lower down. No, not my sciatica, NO! not my lumbago, the other one. Whatisis. YOU know. You bend, and then it tightens, and you can't turn? Achhh. Deb? Deb? what's that, you know -- what? "toshovel"? nawwww, that's not -- wait: I remember: TOSHEVEL!
My TOSHEVEL hurts. But only when i move snow.
( thank you.)
AtHome: thank you. I agree, too it's goodwill, besides all else.
Tom: Ha! you are completely right of course and this discussion needs this. I need this.
Then again, as Con said, if you're here to start an argument, context is irrelevant.
As for me, I love your elegance, your wit, the big words you use, and the big subjects you tackle.
__
grif: yep. aptly put. So far I see in all these comments a good mixture perspectives. They don't conflict as mush as they simply vary, and are applicable to changing circumstances, how people behave. And i learn how neurotic I can be, too! a two-fer! thanks.
Myriad: nope. I can't help myself. Well, I can and do, especially to more marzipan, but i take your point. I dare to be brusque at times, this lengthy intro-position notwithstanding. thanks.
Sparking: too thin? too thick? that is the theme here, and your remark extends it.
I find myself agreeing with you: sometimes we take umbrage! and declaim! It's the aftermath that challenges us, and its math is more closely after than we expect.
And EXCELLENT point about the Dalia Lama's shame. He does carry it -- he still feels shame, so he says, over the suicide of an old monk to whom he refused to allow certain arduous practices -- but he also lets it rest. I let this rest.
and thank you for your kindness.
Scarlett: well, that's exactly to the point. and scores for compact and multicultural, too. It is deeply human: we have these in us. period. Choose to feed the one.
Dr. Susanne: There are a lot of free opinions here, that's for sure, including mine.
here's one: I notice there are precious few who correct each other's writing per se. No grammar nannies, syntax beadles, "I would have written it THIS way" asshats. There is a certain kind of workshop I detest, wherein a few technically capable writers take it upon themselves to "improve" Lo, the poor scribbler in their midst.
Meanwhile the Lo has his Voice strangled with semicolons and crushed by participles in the womb.
OS is blessedly free of that.
And I love how this post triggered lots of real disagreement and waitasecond, all around, I learn from it, the gentle friction here.
thank you.
Stellaa: you are the anti-Whitman here! I sing the body electricshock! rub me the wrong way and fear my static cling!
And yours is one of the most profound OS lessons. I agree. Again: I am a bit neurotic. And arrogant: i think to make my piece universal. Ha!
thanks.
Gwen: whichever comment it was, i adore you adore it. Thanks for the cheerful encouragement. Given the wide range already here, from Be surly, Greg! to Awww let it go! and all in between, your gentle bonhomie completes us.
Natalie: KAAAAHHHNNNN! Eggs-ackly!
We fear the other ship, nemesis, the uncloakers who appear at port and gives us broadsides!
I only try sometimes, despite what i say here. i ignore a LOT. This one stung personally, in what I am learning to recognize as recognition. thanks.
Greg, this part of your post (although off topic in comparison to the other comments here) is what I empathized with the most. I happen to think that this is my primary goal in life. That is, to always strive to align my heart, actions, and words with what is good and right. I know that I will fail more than I succeed, but I refuse to let that discourage me…it only gives me a chance to find the grace in the humility that follows and the chance to do better next time.
I really enjoyed this – a lot, for reasons beyond what was spoken about here. Thank-you very much.