grif -

grif -
Location
Chapel Hill, North Carolina, USA
Birthday
September 17
Bio
One of my favorite places to go is about 12 miles out in the Atlantic Ocean...in my little 20 ft. skiff. The clear water is a deep emerald color and the sunlight bounces around and shimmers randomly. I meet survivor sea turtles, bow-riding dolphin, silent sharks, giant rays rocketing out of the sea and backflipping, schools of porgies, sea robins, slashing blues and Spanish mackerel, the occasional whale, and stray birds. I love the quiet and solitude and vastness. I am a way too veteran educator - special education teacher, high school principal, college professor and some other fun waystops. A political junkie, a cowboy in a previous life, a lover of synchronicity in daily life...meditation and prayer, and a believer that the best days are still ahead. My plan is to finish strong. ************************************ I love following politics and current events, but they all take second place to watching a hockey game. I write occasional Op-Ed pieces - usually on educational issues. My two kids are the true loves of my life. ************************************

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Grif's Alcoholism and Recovery Story
JUNE 29, 2009 5:42PM

Active Alcoholics and Addicts Are All Liars: Believe It!!

Rate: 47 Flag

 

Older Addicts/Alcoholics Are the Best Liars!! 

 

(Note: I have been thinking for awhile now about how lying and addiction are intertwined.  The credible stories about MJ’s drug addiction this past week were the catalyst for writing this post.  It’s not about MJ or anyone in particular.  It is about anyone suffering from addiction/alcoholism.)

I am a liar.  There.  I said it.  I am an alcoholic too. Lying and alcoholism go together like _______ (insert your favorite expression here).  For the point of this post, addiction may be substituted for alcoholism, and addict for alcoholic.  One can argue about the similarities and differences, but one thing is certain: Alcoholics and addicts are liars.  Do not be deceived.  There are no exceptions.

 

When I was in my early twenties (early 1970’s) I worked as a psychiatric attendant in a psychiatric unit of a major university medical center hospital.  It was a fantastic experience on so many levels. I interacted with people at some of the worst moments in their lives.  Some were depressed and suicidal, some in full blown manic episodes (aka bipolar disorder), some homicidal, some withdrawing from drugs/alcohol, some psychotic , some with obsessive-compulsive disorders (OCD) to the point of not being able to function, people with eating disorders, Alzheimer’s, dementia and just about every curse that can be visited on man.  Right. (Some people just had curses put on them and they needed relief.  One of the staff psychiatrists specialized in “root removal” – the southern version of having a curse put on you.) The patients on the ward were young, old, in-between, rich and poor, black and white. It was a privilege to work there, to see people get better and to be a part of their recovery.  It was also an incredible training/educational opportunity for me as I got to participate in all kinds of classes and seminars. But I digress…

 

So back to the lying thing.  One day on the ward a young medical doctor was admitted for drug addiction issues. He was the Chief Resident in Cardiology, was bright and engaging, and had his whole life in front of him.  He also was self-injecting drugs and had become addicted – and had gotten caught. Now he was a patient in a locked psychiatric unit in the hospital where the day before he was saving lives on the heart unit.  I met him within the first hour that I came on duty.  He was charming and witty and it didn’t seem to me that anything was wrong.   Several days went by and he just kind of hung out on the unit. The attending psychiatrist had placed him on “Cannot Leave the Unit” orders.  This meant that he could not leave even with an escort to go anywhere in the hospital.  One Sunday morning, the charge nurse who ran the place like a field marshal in a war, managed to get permission to take him for a brief walk to his office.  She was told to take two male attendants with them, and I was one of them,   and to never let him out of sight.  We walked him to his hospital office to get some articles and journals he needed.  Later that day we were all summoned to the nurse’s station to explain how he had gotten the drugs that he smuggled back onto the unit.

  

I was young and confused.  We pieced it together and –of course—it was in the journals/articles.  The attending physician sat us down and told me something I have never forgotten.  “The best addicts are the best liars. The smarter they are, and the older they are, the better liars they are. Addicts don’t get to be old if they’re not good liars.  They die first.” I have never forgotten that point. Never.

 

I later became an alcoholic.  I don’t know when I crossed that line, but I did cross it. I told a lot of lies in my drinking days.  I lied to family, friends, parents, co-workers, bosses, therapists, police, lawyers, and judges. I lied for years. I lied to myself all the time.  Call it denial, rationalization or whatever else.  Bottom line is that I was lying -- all the time.  My truth is that I would say anything to anyone at anytime as long I thought that it would buy me more time.  More time to drink again.   Maybe in twenty minutes, maybe tomorrow.  That was all that mattered.  I actually “believed my own bullshit” at times. I was so facile at lying that even I believed myself at times.  Now friends, that’s scary. My truth is that the only thing that mattered in the whole world was to be able to drink. This is hard to explain to non-alcoholics/addicts.  It is not logical.  If it were, this problem would not be so vexing and intractable.  Lying allowed me to buy time, and time meant chance for another drink.

 

So here’s the deal.  If you are an active alcoholic/addict, you are a liar and not to be trusted.  If you are the friend, co-worker or family member of an active alcoholic/addict, remember always that they are first liars, and do not believe them.  This is hard to do. Very hard to do. Follow your instincts.  If you think they might not be telling the truth, they’re not.  Now we enter into the whole arena of enabling and that is outside the scope of this post. When one “believes” a liar, then all you are doing is helping them learn to lie a little better, and perhaps postponing an earlier death. I have buried relatives and acquaintances who have died young from the ravages of addiction and alcoholism. Looking back, they were all liars when it came to their addiction. I hang around lots of alcoholics and addicts. The clean and sober ones have learned to tell the truth.  The ones active in their addiction have not. One of the several wise men who have helped me in my sobriety once said to me “George, I really don’t care what you think, or how you feel about things.  All I care about is what you do.” I have never forgotten that point.  Never. 

 

Is it helpful to always challenge an addict’s lying, or to somehow call them on it?  Not always, but don’t get sucked into the lie. Let them solve their own dilemmas, earn their own money, find their own place to live and so on.  If they survive to learn to tell the truth, someday they will be grateful to you for not believing the lie. And that is the truth.

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I think you are right, and thanks.
This is very thought provoking, Grif. Thank you for this!

Rated!
" If they survive to learn to tell the truth, someday they will be grateful to you for not believing the lie." I thank my mother every year when I celebrate my sobriety (8/21/1985) She quit believing me and it saved my life. Excellent post!
Ah yes. True. Brutally true.

I remember the night mine swore up and down to me that he hadn't been drinking and agreed to blow into a pocket breathalyzer to prove his innocence.

He seemed genuinely confounded when the reading came up .10.

Talk about believing your own bullshit. He really HAD convinced himself he hadn't been ducking in and out of the walk-in closet far too many times for a man who's already dressed.
Damn, this is depressing. But I know, you're right.
grif, I agree with you 100%. It's astonishing to me the faith people put in addicts. Before I started telling the truth and quit drinking 3 years ago, I LIED about it all the time. When I said I had 2 glasses of wine, it meant more like 4-5. When I told doctors how much I drank, I lied and told them more like 1/3 of what I actually drank. I would keep a small juice glass in a kitchen drawer while I was cooking and constantly fill it up while I was slicing, dicing and sauteing. I would fake the impression that when I sat down it was my first glass of wine, not my 4th. When it came to my drinking, I was a LIAR never to be trusted, even when I was telling the truth.
Alas, you are right. Thanks for telling it like it is.
Hard words with deep thinking behind them, grif. Thanks for sharing your experience.
What a truly honest post, grif. Being on the other side - it's hard to know when someone you love is lying. You want the best for them. But honestly? Maybe we believe the lie because it's easier on US.

Great post.
For someone who been there and done that, you are correct.I was a "functioning" alcoholic. I did not have a need to lie, I hd my own company, hired and fired, went to work when I felt like it. I thought "Life is good! What you didn't address is the cross-over. I could operate under the influience of alcohol. It was the drugs that got me. After years and years of drinking, I though I was invincible. Cocaine will take your ass to school. The lies started pouring out. Had too. Money. Drugs cost an obscene amount of money, especially if you did then like I did. Lost everything. and i mean everything. Especially my body. Damn, the things I did to my body. I won't go on poor-mouthing, I did what I did. I just hope someone reads this, and doesn't let themselfs think, they can "game" GOD". It can't be done..,
Thank you for reminding me. My son is lying to us, and as much as I want to believe him at times, I've been down this road too many times. We did make him leave our home, leave his job, and it breaks my heart to know how he is living.

Again, thank you for the reminder.
Rated
Yup.

And rated for good writing.
The best (and worst) liars always believe their own lies. rated for honesty
Your post makes me want to cry because I don't want to believe that my son is always lying to me. He just can't be. He loves us too much.....right? I have a feeling you are going to tell me that I am wrong. I am going to send your post to my son's therapist because I have a feeling my son is "bullshitting" his therapist. I don't want to think that David would do that or that his therapist is not aware of the possibility....but just in case....
Thank you for this harsh but caring post.
This is a very helpful and informative post as are most of your posts. I feel enlightened but in kind of a sad way. Keep sharing. It does help a lot, thanks.
Shoot me....go ahead...I can't believe I'm going to agree with Larry. Make sure the gun is loaded. Don't lie to me. Aim and fire...
Some of the best liars I know don't drink, don't do drugs but they are in politics.
Does this mean that some of our Australian
politicians might be alcoholics/drug addicts?
Larry's right - but that's neither here nor there. What you're talking about is a specific kind of lying about a specific thing. A lot of people commenting know what you're talking about, unfortunately.
grif- You know that I understand this - not from the perspective of the addict but as the child of an alcoholic who made his way through most of my life with a big smile and a convincing lie. Glad you both made it to the other side!
Points well taken my friend, I will stop lying to you this minute.

:)

Seriously, wonderful article and rated of course.
I worked as a psych-counselor, knowing all the tricks an addict uses. Why? Because I was one of them. For 17 years I lied to myself, my family and friends. Your post is truth. Rated!
Lisa – thanks for reading and commenting.

Larry – you old curmudgeon, you are right. Not all liars are alcoholics or addicts. Some are just gifted politicians.

LadyM – thanks for commenting.

MB – glad your mother hung tough, and that you are alive and can appreciate this today.

Verbal – thanks for sharing that story. I know you were able to end a relationship that involved alcoholism and have firsthand experience with just how hard it is to do.

Owl – thanks.

waking – it is depressing. In fact, alcoholism and addiction and all the crap that comes with it is just plain depressing. Thanks for commenting.
Mary – thank you for sharing this piece of your story here. Your comment “It's astonishing to me the faith people put in addicts” is powerful. When I was drinking though, I would have protested if you challenged me on my drinking until you just got tired of hearing it. I appreciate your candor and honesty on this subject.

Steve – thanks for stopping by and commenting.

Rob – thanks neighbor. I appreciate you stopping by.

Julie – I think there is a lot of power and truth in your comment “Maybe we believe the lie because it's easier on US.” I know this is true for me.

Scanner – thanks for sharing your story here. You mentioned being a functioning alcoholic. I once heard the best definition of a functioning alcoholic. It’s an alcoholic whose spouse has a fulltime job.
I dont have a lot of experience with this but will reiterate what Jane said, I am glad you got lucky and got sober
Ben Sen – thanks for stopping by and commenting.

Buffy – this stuff IS just so heartbreaking. You love your son and you want what’s best for him and then he disappoints (breaks your heart time and time again). It is just soooo hard to draw that line – but I think it’s the only thing that works. Thanks for stopping by.

nerd cred – thanks for reading and for the writing compliment.

emma – good to see you again. You know the story.

patricia – I am not going to say if he is lying or not and I know you all are struggling mightily with this. When I wasn’t drinking I would say things like “I’ll never drink again” or “Wow, I see now that I really can’t handle my alcohol” or I might apologize for my behavior with an “I’m sorry.” The thing is that I really meant these things at the time. I believe that many alcoholics are sincere if and when they voice a need or desire to stop. My experience is; however, that it doesn’t last long. As a parent, I totally understand wanting to believe your child. I have two of my own (18 and 23). I do know lots of young people who are sober today. My favorite personal story involves a former student of mine (she was a 14 year old ninth grader and I was her high school principal) who got into the worst alcoholic/addict lifestyle. Too many details to share here, but today at 24 years old she is sober and doing well in life – but it was a struggle with many false starts. It can be done!!!! Hang in there.
latethink – thanks for commenting. Glad to hear that it helps.

T.S. – you put it well. We’re not going to shoot you for agreeing with Larry. We might want you to meet with our in-house shrink though.

Peter – some of the politicians down under? Some?

Myriad – thanks for commenting. As you noted almost all of us have some direct experience with addiction/alcoholism and just how hard it is to deal with it.

mamoore – yes, I know that you know this part of the story. I appreciate your perspective on how you’ve come to understand this behavior and still be able to love and see the good.

Tink – listen to yourself: “Points well taken my friend, I will stop lying to you this minute.” And then you said “Seriously, wonderful article and rated of course.” Just kidding. Thanks for stopping by and commenting.

Mr. Mustard – thanks for sharing your personal and professional experience here. Appreciated.
jane – thanks for that nice and sweet comment. My take on getting sober is related to grace – but that’s for another day. I do appreciate the support in terms of my writing about it.

Ariana – thanks for stopping by and commenting. I appreciate it.
OK George,I concede,most of them.
Been there, done that. I am a witness. I am the witnessed. On sunday I celebrated 19 years since the last one. I am, with you George, one of the lucky ones.

Great post.

Monte
Peter – I’m laughing. Makes me think that politicians are the same the world around.

Monte – thanks for stopping by and congratulations on the 19 years. That is just so awesome (sometimes I sound like I’m 16). I love the comment – being the witness and the witnessed.
Correctamundo, Grif! Excellent post!
I could comment on this all night, from my own bs, and the bs I have heard from the other side of the fence. At some point, addicts/alcoholics become delusional. So adept at lying, they lose the ability to discern how others might hear their deceptions, or even to judge when it is in their interests to lie. I once told a landlord I had mailed a check a few days ago. I said this during a face-to-face conversation. I never mailed him his check. He lived next door. I simply walked over and handed it to him, or slid it under the door. Or, having spent it on drugs, told him it was in the mail.
Robin – thanks for reading and commenting.

jim - you said it all. I am laughing at your “check’s in the mail story.” Thanks for commenting.
The landlord wasn't laughing, grif. I remember that pretty vividly.
jim - I'll bet he wasn't laughing. Reminds me of the guy in AA who told us about how he used to tell a co-worker (who was in AA) that he had joined AA and had the membership card in his desk drawer. The coworker never said a thing.
I had always considered myself to be an honest person but when the ravages of alcoholism are upon me I would lie to anyone, anytime to protect my disease. That's why rigorous honesty is so key to sobriety. Thanks for a great post.
AA - thanks for stopping in and validating too.
Perfect. Absolutely perfect. My highest compliments.
This reminds me of the issue of mental illness. I think denial is often a huge factor with the person and the family.

Our whole society is in complete denial over our treatment of the seriously mentally ill. Some of them need temporary involuntary commitment.
I am an alcoholic but you can't swipe me with your brush. You sound like one of those awful 12 steppers that sometimes get loose and spread their own brand of self-righteous nonsense on the unsuspecting public. I am a drunk but I also OWN the fact of what I am. I put noone else in danger and as a matter of fact, my honesty keeps the very people away that would be harmed by my behaviour. We (as humans) resist being pigeon-holed the way that you and your ilk would have it.
Amazing post grif. We're treading very carefully through these waters right now, hoping for the best. Good, tough reminders; I probably needed to hear them.
Are you telling me the truth? (Kidding). Good points and I think you're right.
Kathy - interesting point about mental illness and involuntary commitment. Our individual civil rights have overshadowed the reality of mental illness in many cases.

Darryl – good point. My intent was to address not believing all the false promises that addicts/alcoholics make. If in fact one “owns” their alcoholism/addiction and desire to use/drink, then one is telling the truth, and I think that’s what you’re saying. My best to you.

Token – a chicken bone in a golf bag is a sure sign. Did you notice how you have been missing those “gimmees” this year? The doc at the unnamed major medical center would give the victim two pills (take one in the morning and one …) and tell them that if their urine turned blue then the root was removed. I think the pill was made of methylene blue or something like that. Worked every time according to the doc. He also specialized in treating clay eaters (a form of pica) that was common in certain areas in Durham, NC. Oops, I might be giving away the unnamed med center.

annette – good to hear from you. I am pulling for you and the fam.

O’Really? – yes. Really. :-0
I have also given this a lot of thought, having been married to a "dry drunk" for almost 20 years, and relationship for three years with another one having ended just months ago.

Grif, my sincere belief is that there is some type of physical component to this; a part of the brain that is just wired differently in those who are able to lie and lie and believe their own lies, vs. those who can regulate themselves to tell the truth even if it causes discomfort.

I think it is a which came first, chicken or egg, situation. Lying is to avoid facing true self and consequences of actions. It is my belief that this personality trait shows up in childhood to a greater degree in children who eventually become addicts. The addiction is just another way to avoid facing self and consequences. Addicts are less able to deal with emotional discomfort in healthy ways, thus shortcuts and deadening, lies and alcohol or whatever drug of choice.

Lying and the addiction are both ways of avoiding personal responsibility. I have read some research that a section of the brain is wired differently in those with addictions, showing them having a reduced capacity than normal for remorse. (Need to look that up again to find source...)

Active alcoholic or not, the lying trait a core trait that must be overcome in order to really be sober. Otherwise, the addict is very likely to just substitute another addiction to avoid facing himself and consequences honestly.

The addict really does believe it is everyone else's fault, whether he is active in his addiction or not. I believe the core addiction is lying to protect oneself, and the other addictions are just in support of this inability to face oneself.

How bout that for a note? Haven't been here for a while, so my fingers were itchin' to write. I always enjoy your thoughts, Grif. Thanks for sharing.
Great post. I have a family member who is a former active addict and very much a liar, the addiction stopped but the lying never did. Now her children, one of whom has been through "recovery", are both liars, and do so seemingly compulsively. So I would add to this that addictions can appear to be conquered in that the addicted person no longer uses, but if they never learn how to tell the truth the lying part of the addiction lives on and on, in them and in their children and other family members. Not doing the drug or not drinking or not engaging in sexually addictive behaviors is NOT recovery...addiction comes with a whole host of other ritualized behaviors (including lying) and these behaviors need to be addressed in treatment as much as the addiction itself.
People do what has worked for them in the past. When it stops working, people have impetus to change.
SM – thank you for your thoughtful response/comment. I agree that there seems to be some physiology involved. At the same time, chronic use/abuse of alcohol/drugs does impair the central nervous system and can certainly damage it. I am amazed at how long it takes for alcohol to clear the system (18 mos – two years), and other drugs have their time windows as well.

ljturner66 – excellent points. Recovery is so much more than just quitting for most of us. My sponsor says “If alcohol was our only problem, the detox centers would be turning out winners every day.”

Leslie – excellent observation. It does seem that we only change when we realize that what we’re doing isn’t working any longer.

Karin – thanks for stopping in. Your memory is better than mine!! (no surprise there he thinks)
how do you know a junkie's lying?
His/her lips are moving!
Rated
Great piece, Grif. Sorry it took so long to get over here. I don't know if it's the truth or not, but it seems to me that the degree of addiction/alcoholism is proportionate to the degree of lying.
Junk1 – thanks for stopping by – and so true.

Michael – thanks for commenting. That’s an interesting thought that you stated about the relationship.
Thank you for courage and this post.
I know I am responding very late to an old post, but I just have to get my two cents in. The flip side is that it is very hard to be taken seriously about your drinking problem when you actually don't drink that much compared to most of the "normal" people you know. When people talk about stopping after two drinks, I have to laugh because two drinks puts me out. And yet, I consider myself an alcoholic because when there is alcohol in the house, I cannot stop myself from drinking myself to oblivion every single day. It's that my body requires very little alcohol to either pass out or get sick. A little goes a long way.

So I've never had to lie to other people. When I tell them how much I drink, they tell me I don't have a problem. Even though I know I do! Even now, after 120 days of sobriety, my co-worker continues to nudge me to have a drink and refuses to accept my statement that I am an alcoholic and can never drink again. "Oh, you can drink every once in a while," she assures me. "No, I can't." I insist. I can't drink every once in a while because for me, drinking means drinking every single day. It's all or nothing. But she cannot understand that.

Nevertheless, I am a liar. I know that. I have known that my whole life. But perhaps we all are. I may not lie about my drinking, but I sure do lie about other types of addictions. How much food I have eaten. How many hours I have spent watching TV or playing computer games. How bad my tooth aches or head hurts to justify taking the Vicodin my husband was prescribed after gum surgery, the prescription he has never taken himself, the one I urged him to fill "just in case."

So I think you are right about addicts being liars. We just may not be lying about the things you'd expect us to lie about.
Never too late to respond Beth. Good job on the 120 days. I think all those things we lie about are diversions to somehow make us feel better. Having one of whatever triggers the need for more in some manner. Thanks for stopping by.
Ok. I do not how and why, but I started abusing alcohol since one year ago.... At first it was nightly! Now I have decreased -only with prayer and the help of God to twice a weeek.
Now on the point of being "liars"....I have let all my family -from my husband who obviusly know that I've been drinking to my mom, syster, and brother, etc.... I do not try to keep this problem hidden from anybody else, because, to start with, there is not way to do that. As matter of fact, I just started to attend a church; and the first this I am going to do is to let the Pastor know about this problem. I can not explain to myself how I did get involve on it...since my family used to own a restaurant business for more that 7 years where I had access to ALL the alcohol and NEVER -back them, I became an alcoholic. I became used to drink daily after I was forced by my husband to stay at home in order to take care of our daughter -which I love. But I feel that I have more to give that just doing the haourdcores of a household, and taking care of my little one... -that's something I manage with kust one hand! but since I am a very active person, I feel ther is something missing in my life...may be I miss the hectic life I lived since I was 18 years old....who knows! Now, aocholism it is not easy to overcome, but it is not impossible to do it either.... As I think I mentioned befored, I have decreased from driking everysingle night, to, two days a week....But I know is not enough....I know that "enough" means what my life used to be = 0 Alcochol -not alcohol at all...so I will keep, along with my family fighting alochol back until I overcome.
Ok. I do not how and why, but I started abusing alcohol since one year ago.... At first it was nightly! Now I have decreased -only with prayer and the help of God to twice a weeek.
Now on the point of being "liars"....I have let all my family -from my husband who obviusly know that I've been drinking to my mom, syster, and brother, etc.... I do not try to keep this problem hidden from anybody else, because, to start with, there is not way to do that. As matter of fact, I just started to attend a church; and the first this I am going to do is to let the Pastor know about this problem. I can not explain to myself how I did get involve on it...since my family used to own a restaurant business for more that 7 years where I had access to ALL the alcohol and NEVER -back them, I became an alcoholic. I became used to drink daily after I was forced by my husband to stay at home in order to take care of our daughter -which I love. But I feel that I have more to give that just doing the haourdcores of a household, and taking care of my little one... -that's something I manage with kust one hand! but since I am a very active person, I feel ther is something missing in my life...may be I miss the hectic life I lived since I was 18 years old....who knows! Now, aocholism it is not easy to overcome, but it is not impossible to do it either.... As I think I mentioned befored, I have decreased from driking everysingle night, to, two days a week....But I know is not enough....I know that "enough" means what my life used to be = 0 Alcochol -not alcohol at all...so I will keep, along with my family fighting alochol back until I overcome.
By the way...my mistake! I do appologize for all the typing errors :)
On this one single facet of the phenomenon, George, you have covered the waterfront well, I think. I am not an expert at this. I am only one drunk. The only thing that distinguishes me from others is that I actually believed more of my own lies than others do. I believed to the depths of my soul so much of the bullshit that used to come out of me.

The only other point that I wished to add is that telling the truth can be a long term project for someone like me, even after some years of sobriety. It is work and more work. I do believe that telling the truth will never be a thing that comes naturally to me. In saying only that I am working at telling the truth.
The man I was living with before I came here was 55, and a bottle and a half a day vodka drinker. I knew that when I met him, but did not expect the relationship to go anywhere. I told myself, "It's his liver," and I was determined not to judge him. My mother and grandfather were both alcoholics, so I knew what was what, but I did resent the lying. He lied when he didn't have to lie, and if I confront him on the lie, I got wrapped around more lies, and was left feeling like I was the crazy one.

The lies were almost always about "disappearing acts" he would vanish for weeks at a time. He said he was out of town, but I know better now. I resented him, and his lying to me until I read this post (and Brass, your comment on the feed activity brought me here).

He won't even answer my emails anymore. I wish him the best, and thank you for your honesty, it's a little weight off me I didn't have before!
I feel compelled, for clarity's sake, to add that I believed because I lied so convincingly to myself as well as others.

Yes, Kate, we will make you crazy. The only answer, usually, is simply to cut us loose, sever all contact in order to save yourself.