The Hal Blog II

Original THE HAL BLOG http://halmasonberg.wordpress.com/
AUGUST 20, 2010 1:20PM

This Silly "Mosque" Business & John Stewart

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We all know the arguments by now so I won't repeat them. But what I will say is simply this: In order for a Muslim community center being built several blocks away from the 9/11 site to be disrespectful of those who suffered on 9/11, one must first believe that the Muslim community as a whole were somehow responsible for the 9/11 attacks. No one takes issue with the two churches that overlook the 9/11 site. Nor would there be any argument against the building of a Jewish community center. So the issue here is simply that there are enough people who have not managed to separate the Muslim community from the extremists who attacked us on September 11, 2001.

This is not an issue of sensitivity to loss and suffering. It is an issue of sensitivity to fear and doubt and a gross misunderstanding of what it means to be Muslim and what it means to be a terrorist. It is mired in misconception. There can be no insensitivity regarding this issue without religious inequality. They are simply inseparable. If they were not, no one would take offense. No, one has to believe that Muslims were somehow responsible for the attacks and that allowing the building of a Muslim community center near (not on, mind you) Ground Zero would somehow be an act of support for the attacks themselves.

It is not. The men who attacked us may have been Muslim (and that faith, like all others, has many different interpretations and sects), but the men and women building the community center did not fly planes into the World Trade Center Towers. No more than the Jewish population in Germany during the 30's and 40's was trying to destroy that country and its values. Or that all members of the NRA supported the Columbine massacre.

This needs to stop. Instead of taking out your anger on Muslims, look a bit deeper at the anger and loss created by the events of 9/11 and try to put them into a proper perspective that doesn't instigate more hatred and misunderstanding. The men who attacked us on 9/11 did not understand who we were. As a nation. As a people. Let's not make the same mistake they did.

In the meantime, go HERE to watch John Stewart once again put things clearly into perspective.

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It's a sad and sorry statement on America when the most reasonable voice is that of a comedian.
How very dismissive as usual. You write from one point of view and think you have it all figured out. I have read some of your blogs and while you have the ability to form well structured sentences into well structured paragraphs, you also show you have the same disease as everyone else....a point of view about which you feel strongly. You however take it a step further as you seem to deem your perspective superior to that of all who may have a different point of view. You waved your magic wand and decided for all involved what this issue is and what it is not. I am sure that for some, this is not about sensitivity to the feelings of others. But for some, I think it is very personal. Being dismissive doesn't make you right and others wrong. It just makes you as careless as those people you point out as being well, careless. There are many points of view and I welcome all but I don't find it necessary to harbor the misguided pretense that I am right and all others are wrong or "silly".

Your magic wand...it's merely your a imagination with a stick in it. And it is no more or less dangerous than the magic wand of any other person or group.
You may be right about me, Lydia. However, I noticed that in your comment that you didn't bother to offer any optional reasons why someone would not want a "mosque" near Ground Zero. You spent all your time telling me why I was wrong or closed-minded, but spent absolutely no time actually telling me or showing me why I was wrong. Instead of trying to enlighten me, you simply told me I was being dismissive.

I have listened to and read hundreds of opinions on this issue, have followed it VERY closely, and have yet to find one explanation opposing the building of this community center that appears to come from a place of logic. It is either claiming insensitivity or actually claiming that there might be a connection between these particular Muslims and the 9/11 terrorists.

I grew up in the city and lost a close cousin in the first tower. I am surrounded by friends who have lost significant loved-ones. That pain, 9 years later, is still fresh. But that is not an excuse for what I am seeing here. And until you or someone else offers me another way of seeing it, I only have what is being written and reported on and said to me in person to go on. And given that, my opinion and position has not changed. In order for a Muslim community center to not be wanted near Ground Zero, one needs to somehow connect Muslims (or at least these particular Muslims) with the events of 9/11. Otherwise, where is the issue?

I am open to hearing your response and hope you can offer me another way of seeing this. Until such a time, I will continue to point out a certain level of hypocrisy that I see between what some Americans say they stand for and what they actually do in action. So far as I'm concerned, it is important to do so.
Again you are being dismissive. Pay close attention....I never once took a side on this issue either way. You have made that very human mistake of making an assumption. So you leave me no choice but to ask you, where in your blog are the facts? What does it mean to be Muslim? You rattled that off as if you have some clue, but you offer no facts on the subject to "enlighten" your reader at all. You just say it and expect that we will say wow surely he knows what it is to be Muslim. Are you a Muslim? Right now, it is just a sweet little sentence that made your opinion sound important - mostly to you.

Your entire blog is all opinion sweetie, backed up by the meanderings of a comedian that you have given the appearance of being someone you take seriously. You are entitled to your opinion. It is not my desire to enlighten you to the point of altering your perspective. My point is that it isn't up to you to dismiss the emotions and perspective of others. People feel what they feel. You spend your time "following closely" what others say so that you can wave that wand and call it all a lie all the while calling the people who offer an opposing opinion belittling names. How does that distinguish you?

You spout nothing more than an opinion then delude yourself that because you thought it and wrote it down that it is a fact and the rest of us are given notice to "prove" our opinions to satisfy you. Again you are entitled to your opinion, but believe it or not so is everyone else. If you don't find the other guy's feelings or thoughts agreeable to yours, so what. That doesn't mean yours count more or his don't count at all. That is the definition of dismissive and is the whole point of your blog. You are not here to enlighten. You are here to post not only what you think but to make sure you spell out that the rest of the free thinking world is not worthy of the right to feel and think what they do (without factual proof anyway).

And I have to say, your rebuttal offered nothing to "enlighten" me to change my mind about you being dismissive.
Nothing deluded about the OBVIOUS Rights given by the First Amendment. An ENORMOUS amount of delusion for any of those so firmly set in credulity so as to lie through their teeth about a billion people.
You seem to be mixing up blogging with journalism. The entire point for many of us is to express our opinions. As for being Muslim, my understanding of it, in depth or otherwise, is not the point here. Yes, I do have friends who are Muslim and I have engaged in conversations about religion as well as this community center topic. In fact, on this very day. However, as a Jew, I would hope someone would fight for my rights regardless of how much they knew about my religion. You seem to think I'm commenting in a vacuum, yet you offer no point of view other than to say you don't like what I've written and seem to think I am dismissive of others. It is true that I have little tolerance for those who claim to be "sensitive" to issues and yet at the same time back actions that promote something I see as dangerous. It's a slippery slope. The most recent poll I read the other day claimed that more people believe now that Obama is a Muslim than did a year ago. Whether or not this poll is accurate I can't tell you. However, it represents a particular school of thought that is not based in reality and largely paints being a Muslim as a negative thing. This Muslim community center is being painted by many as both an insult to 9/11 victims and, in some cases, outright dangerous! I am not dismissing the views of others. But I am asking that they take a closer look at why they don't want the center there. Again, I do not see how it can be an affront unless you see Muslims different than you see Jews or Christians or Buddhists. However, again, I am open to hearing a view that allows me to understand these opinions better. It's one thing to say it's an affront, it's another to explain why it is. And I see a whole lot of politicians more interested in scoring points by backing people's emotional reactions than in actually standing up for one of the most basic of all American rights. I do not yet see how you can do both. Or, better said, if there's a way to do both honestly, I would very much like to know.

As for enlightening you, I stated my opinion and made comparisons in my initial post. As for John Stewart, yes, I find him both funny and, quite often, not far off the mark. There is most certainly a dark comedy going on there. You seem to be suggesting that he is my only (or, at least, favored) source of info. I chose to include his bit because I find it both amusing and informative and I wanted to share it. And I like him and this is my blog.

You seem to have issues that go far deeper than what I have written here. Again, you seem to have expectations that my blog should be something other than what it is. And you call having a point of view about which I (or anyone else) feel strongly a "disease." Interesting. A good disease to have, in my opinion. Yes, I believe people should feel strongly about issues. And they should converse, write, talk and share their opinions on issues that may, if not addressed, promote a racist, hateful mindset. What's happened here with the whole "mosque" issue has called out the elephant in the room which is that there are many people in this country who seem to equate Islam with terrorism. My opinion remains that there is no solid reason beyond misconception and fear in allowing the prevention of that community center being built. But, as I've said before, if there's another reason that I have somehow missed, that has yet to be expressed to me, I truly want to hear it.

But your rant here seems to be based in an anger toward me personally that, from where I stand, doesn't address much of anything. Your only opinion seems to be about me and others "like me." That said, please continue to post your thoughts. I welcome them. I will not, however, continue to respond unless you can offer me something of substance. If I am wrong in my opinions, if I am misguided, misinformed, delusional--any or all of the above-- please correct me and my thinking. Again, I am open to it. I desire it. But so far you've taken no stand, made no points, and argued only that I wave a dismissive magic wand.
Sorry I hurt your feelings. I guess it is okay for you (and I brought no one up but you) to call people's feelings "silly" but you take offense at being called dismissive. Sad really. I agree with a lot of what you say, but the underlying self-involved mentality you display in your post is a huge turn off. That is why no one really listens. Once you dismiss a group of people they couldn't care less what you think or have to say. Have you ever heard that you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar? It really is true. Make your point without the sense of superiority you're drowning yourself in and maybe more people will hear what you have to say and receive some enlightenment. Your title is off putting. Maybe you just want to write to people who already agree with you, but really what good is that? Is that the only voice you want, really? Wouldn't you rather attract all and hope that something you say makes a difference? I don't get why you find it necessary to name call. What does that achieve? It puts you in the same company as folks who feel all Muslims are terrorists. Stop speaking down to people and more people will listen. Or keep doing what you are doing and the same small group who have been reading your posts will remain constant and your voice will scream into a void making little if any difference. You have been so busy harboring a fear that someone might disagree with you that you failed to see what I am saying. You obviously write to put yourself out there, but you are cutting off your nose to spite your face. So hey, don't respond, I really never cared if you did or didn't, but I'm bored with your view of the world. Not so much close-minded as closed off. Keep preaching to your choir, winning no souls. Sad really.
Lydia, you've pretty much spent all your time calling me names while insisting I'm nothing more than a name caller. "Have you ever heard that you attract more flies with honey than with vinegar?" A lesson you may want to take to heart yourself. Clearly I've reached someone as you found this post worthy of several responses. And the handful of other responses here seem to be in agreement with the sentiments I've expressed. As for hurting my feelings, I don't see how a stranger can hurt someone's feelings. You can continue your anti-Hal tirade if it makes you feel better, but I think you may be calling the kettle black here. Perhaps you see in me that which you do not like in yourself. Because you certainly seem to be taking one heck of an air of superiority in all your comments. What you have yet to do is offer any thoughts or comments that would show why I am dismissive. What particular opinions and viewpoints have I been dismissive of? Share them. Show me the opinions I have disregarded. Tell me how this situation that I've commented on here in this post can be seen differently. Otherwise, take your bitterness elsewhere. The "silly" in my title was in reference to the tone of the John Stewart video I posted. However, your comments here, which you have not backed up with anything more than angry condemnations, name-calling and all the things you claim to be upset about, do seem rather silly to me. Disagree with me, that I welcome. But either try to back up what you say and help initiate an intelligent conversation, or please take your hostility elsewhere. It is not welcome here.
"So virulent is the Islamophobic hysteria of the neocon and Fox News right — abetted by the useful idiocy of the Anti-Defamation League, Harry Reid and other cowed Democrats — that it has also rendered Gen. David Petraeus’s strategy for fighting the war inoperative. How do you win Muslim hearts and minds in Kandahar when you are calling Muslims every filthy name in the book in New York?" - Frank Rich