To start, I'll quote here another author of OS, Koshersalaami:
"... to deal with a guy who's said he wants to obliterate another nation from the face of the Earth, particularly when that nation is the same people (singular noun in this case) who were victims the first time around..."
I highly suspect, if Ahmadinejad ever said that 'he wants to obliterate another nation from the face of the Earth'. I've read that according to trustworthy translators, he actually quoted a previous religious leader of Iran saying: "The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".
He particularly did not say that he or his administration would like to annihilate Israel, but that Israel's current administration would disappear by itself or by an act of God or by other happenings his administration wouldn't accomplish. His choice of words can of course be interpreted not to be very diplomatic, but he seems to have selected his words not to tell about any actual threats from Iran's side. Just the opposite; he seems to have meant his words to convince his own country people that Israel will not attack Iran, but Israel's present unfriendly regime would change by itself.
---
More about the issue from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel#.22
Wiped_off_the_map.22_or_.22
Vanish_from_the_pages_of_time.22_translation
Speaking at a D-8 summit meeting in July 2008, when asked to comment on whether he has called for the destruction of Israel he denied that his country would ever instigate military action, there being "no need for any measures by the Iranian people". Instead he claimed that "the Zionist regime" in Israel would eventually collapse on its own. "I assure you... there won't be any war in the future," both the BBC and AP quoted him as saying.
And asked if he objected to the government of Israel or Jewish people, he said that "creating an objection against the Zionists doesn't mean that there are objections against the Jewish". He added that Jews lived in Iran and were represented in the country's parliament.
---
In my view the turmoil in the Middle East concerning Iran's relation with Israel is purposefully created by some American politicians who want to start the war against Iran. They are creating the problem to Israel, because Americans cannot easily again declare a war against the nation, which haven't attacked them (even if they have done so in the past for example against Afghanistan) so they are trying to get Israel to perform the first attack and in general to use Israel as one of their main bases in the fight. After Israel's attack Americans would join to defend Israel from Iran's counter attacks.
I have written about this issue before. My viewpoint concerning the military issue of that planned war is that Israel alone couldn't easily win the war against Iran. Iran wouldn't stay silent, but would hit back and hard.
Furthermore Iran has got allies like Hezbollah and Hamas near Israel. I think that both recent wars, the war in Lebanon against Hezbollah and the war in Gaza against Hamas were purposefully planned and arranged to prepare for the war against Iran.
From the military viewpoint Americans and Israel lost both those wars. Hezbollah was able to show that they can get in their hands such accurate missiles, which can hit any place in Israel. In Gaza Israel (and Americans, who supplied the bombs) tried by bombing to close tunnels, which could be used to bring advanced missiles and other weapons to Gaza. Some tunnels are still there.
The recent aid flotilla incident is a part of 'the game', too. Israel is suspicious of the aid ships that they could be used for supplying weapons to Gaza. Israel had declared the blockade, so the people in the ship knew that Israelis will come to the ships to inspect them. It would be too naive to expect that all the people in the ships were just peace activists. It was too easy to put there other kinds of people, too.
The encounter in the aid ships Israel and Americans seem to have lost, too.
The key point to understand is the role of Turkey. Now the ally of Americans and Israel, Turkey seems to be shifting a bit away from the alliance, which is an unconvenient alliance to them, because they have got close ties with Iran, too. I think that this outcome was the prepared and desired outcome of the battle from Americans' and Israel's opponents' side. It is as well possible that Israel wanted purposefully to punish Turkey and Turkey can't do anything but to pay the ticket for being friendly with Iran...
Needless to tell again maybe. I think that the whole thing going on in the Middle East is arranged by American empire dreamers, who want more wars. It is everybody's advantage to avoid further wars. It is Israel's advantage, too, to start building friendly relationships with Iran and with everyone.
TIP:
Enter the amount, and click "Tip" to submit!
libbyliberalnyc
Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall
Jan Sand
old new lefty
Bill Michtom
markinjapan
Salon.com
Comments
Yet, he enamors an array of sycophants. Your example of the perverse and revisionist history he perverts is but one instance of many.
He writes before he thinks and believes no-one has ever heard of google.
-R-
I think critics are misunderstood.
Mark can provoke the inner devil.
I followed Mark and am glad/sad.
Killer haters are so screwed Evil.
I hear on C-span a Ill-Sociopath.
`
General McChrystal, etc., and the Joint Chief of Staff named General Mc Beelzebub were babbling more murder in Kandahar neighborhood too ... What a demonic Dark spirit! Their voice is Hades gutter el. WOE! Oy, Evil Incarnates. Dog hyena's and carrion munching jackals cheon decomposinf human fles, guts, intestinal bowels.
and gnaw hearts
and eat the livers.
That scripture and old Homer.
I was drafted and it changed me.
I witnessed the sociopath killers.
They often were the ill generals.
They are mentioned in history.
They kill native inhabitants.
They steal Ya Real Estate.
They arrest Ya in banks.
I was `Waybsboro, PA.
They kill for a Penny.
They get dime canoe.
So Thanks. Honesty.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=4527
R~
Markinjapan: I think real discussions are possible with Koshersalaami and with others, too. Your link is very good. I forgot to mention it, I have read that sometimes ago.
Art James: Your poetry is really effective. It sounds like it could be used for songs... you ever tried composing it with music?
joyonboard: How true. Emperor's dreams are others' nightmares!
Stellaa: I think that if we could really listen others outside our own cultural spheres, many problems could be solved. I have studied some foreign languages including Japanese and Sanskrit, and lived many years in Asian countries but still I cannot say that I understand what people really mean when they say something esepecially in a foreign language.
---
I just commented Koshersalaami's post with the following:
I think that Ahmadinejad has spoken many really confusing ideas about the Holocaust. But one quite clear interview about the issue has been published in the Time magazine.
----------
TIME: You've just held a conference on the Holocaust for which you are being criticized. Why not hold a peace conference instead of a Holocaust conference. You could invite the Israelis and Palestinians to talk about peace, instead of what happened 60 years ago.
AHMADINEJAD: As a matter of fact this conference was in line with peace. Because for the past 60 years, the Palestinian people have been suppressed using Holocaust as the pretext. We believe if we do not look into the causes and roots of the problems, the problems won't be solved. What is the root of the problem in Palestine? Sixty years ago a regime was imposed by the excuse of the Holocaust. If the issue of the Holocaust became clear, the issue would be solved.
TIME: How?
AHMADINEJAD: I raised two questions. I said if the Holocaust is a real case, why don't they allow research about it. And the second question was, let's assume that this event actually took place in the past, where did it happen? What is it's connection with the Palestinian people? These are essential questions. Of course we know the Zionists are severely against these types of questions. They become angry. Because for the past 60 years they are killing, and threatening the people of the region. They are continuing their aggression. They established a state for themselves.
TIME: That accuses Israel and makes a judgment, but how would answering your questions bring peace? Israel has nuclear weapons.
AHMADINEJAD: When it is understood that the issue does not have any relationship with the Palestinian people, then we will have two proposals for the western and European countries.
The first solution is that just in the same way as you mounted this regime in the past, you can remove it yourself. You know well that the Holocaust has nothing to do with the Palestinian people. That was just a pretext to create this regime. And it was not a good excuse. Just cease to support it. Don't use your people's money to assist this violent regime. This is the best solution. If they do not accept the first solution, then they should allow the nation of Palestine to make their decision about its own fate. Anyone who is a Palestinian citizen, whether they are Christian, Jewish or Muslim, should decide together in a very free referendum. There is no need for war. There is no need for threats or an the atom bomb either. All that is needed is logic and reason and the humanitarian basis adopted by the United Nations. And we should consider the right to self determination for the Palestinians too, and then the issue will be solved.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1570714,00.html
--------
This is not completely bad?
If Ahmadinejad really means what he said during that interview, it could serve as one viewpoint for some kind of talks about the issue of Palestine? He doesn't deny in that interview the reality of Holocaust, but questions the idea that Holocaust was used as one of the main reasons why and how the state of Israel was created.
On the other hand Ahmadinejad has repeatedly said that in principle he has nothing against Jews.
"And asked if he objected to the government of Israel or Jewish people, he said that "creating an objection against the Zionists doesn't mean that there are objections against the Jewish". He added that Jews lived in Iran and were represented in the country's parliament."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7495869.stm
---
Ahmadinejad sounds sometimes like an antisemitist, but if those quotes above reflect the real man behind journalists and western medias, his ideas are not completely odd?
salaami has twice spread a vicious lie about the terms of the Camp David Accords and the cause of the first Intifada.
When faced with undeniable evidence at odds with his perverted and deceitful versions, he has chosen neither to debate the issue, defend his lies, nor deny the veracity of the reliable sources cited that contradict his dissembling and perverted comments.
It is NOT possible to debate someone who hasn't the courage to own up to their own words or back up their contentions,
Someone who cowardly ignores the FACTS placed directly in front of them deserves nothing less than to be exposed for their extreme deceit and cowardice.
According to Martin Barillas, Cutting Edge Senior Contributor: "The group is comprised of Christian and Muslim women under purported Hezbollah aegis, funded by a major Hezbollah financier."
http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=12294&pageid=37&pagename=Page+One
From the same article:
"The woman behind the expedition is Samar El-Hajj, a Hezbollah-linked lawyer who has questioned the investigation into the murder of former Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. El Hajj says that the Mariam is "the new secret weapon" against what she described as "the thieving enemy."
Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon stated, “If there was a mask of humanitarianism on previous flotillas, the mask has been removed completely from these boats, which are carrying representatives of Hizbullah and Iran.” Israeli Ambassador to the UN Gabriela Shalev sent a letter to UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon noting that Israel will intercept the ship; and that if the international community wants to avoid the possibility of another loaded confrontation, it should preempt the provocative flotilla."
Now it is becoming open that the aid flotillas are used as a part of political operations, too besides carrying aid to Gaza. The earlier problems with aid flotillas are not predicting very good, what will happen at this time.
I think that it would be really the best, if Israel would stop the blockade. What I have read, the blockade has not prevented transport of arms into Gaza through tunnels from Egypt, (if somebody is willing to do that), anyway.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu warned Wednesday that Israel's legitimacy is being attacked, during a Knesset discussion on Israel's collapsing international status.
"We know that the attacks on Israel are threatening its existence, since we constantly hear people saying 'go back to Poland or Morocco'. They are essentially telling us to dismantle the Zionist enterprise."
-------
That is from Haaretz:
Netanyahu: Israel's legitimacy is under attack
The prime minister speaks at a Knesset discussion on Israel's collapsing world status, and calls on the PA president to enter direct peace talks.
By Jonathan Lis and Haaretz Service
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-israel-s-legitimacy-is-under-attack-1.297914
So somehow Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has started thinking what to do. He will maybe now at least ease the blockade, if not calling it off completely.
Probably something quite good is going on. Another person of Knesset criticized the general attitude of Israel over the blockade and aid flotillas:
"Balad MK Hanin Zuabi, who took part in the Gaza-bound aid flotilla raided by the IDF on May 31, accused fellow MKs of hypocrisy for attacking her for her criticism of the blockade of Gaza.
"I was attacked personally and politically, but two weeks later the prime minister decided to end the civilian blockade of Gaza," she said. "Three weeks ago, I spoke on this podium, after nine people were killed to preserve the blockade. And now, after the prime minister ends the civilian blockade, as he calls it, no one yelled, no one even said a word."
From the same Haaretz article.