"That Harry is a funny guy!"
Maybe Bill came across one of my posts or comments where I pointed out atheism is an annoying religion like any other. Bear in mind we're talking about philosophical religion, not practical religion like capitalism (which I'll get into later). Bill likes to act like he's an agnostic (no opinion one way or the other) but he preaches like an old-time atheist, squeezing it in wherever he can even though he claims he "doesn't really like to talk about religion."
Please, someone free Bill Maher! He's forced to talk religion! He has no free will!
To back his claim of being non-religious first thing Bill had to do was lie about the definition of religion, saying it's a belief IN God, which is not true. It's a belief ABOUT God, regardless if you think any God exists or not. If you have an opinion, you are religious, if you don't then you are agnostic. It's a Boolean situation.
See, it shapes up like this: One group of religious assholes tells me I have to believe in God. Another group of religious assholes tells me I have to not believe in God. All I got to say to you religious people is: don't tread your religion on me! Who are these do-gooders wanting to evangelize and "fix" everyone else? And hardly anyone evangelizes more than Bill Maher. Give it a rest already, dude.
The problem with most atheists is that they are very gullible people. Some guy comes up to them and says, "I'm a man of God!" Next thing you know the supposed Man of God is molesting an eight year old. Then the moron atheist says, "See! All that God stuff is bullshit!" Uh, hey Einstein (who did believe in God) that's only a valid argument if you believed the guy in the first place. Gullible much?
No one gets outraged when a plumber molests a child saying, "I no longer believe in plumbers!" Atheists reply, "Well of course not! He never claimed to have anything to do with God!" But again, the plumber has no more or less to do with God than anyone else. Why would anyone believe otherwise? Because they believe in religion, that's why. That's why they always hold up the vast and horrific malfeasance of current and past church conduct as "proof" there is no God.
Here's a clue for the logic impaired: if there is a God of love, burning people as witches would not be a godly act. Therefore, those people could not possibly represent said God. It's just incredible the number of people who fall for that.
A man who didn't believe in wasting time
But don't get me wrong. God talk is just jacking off, much adieu about nothing. Practiced religion is the real killer. The definition of that is your belief system of whatever it is you believe will save you. As Bill himself once rightly pointed out, "Money is the true religion of Republicans." That's what their actions demonstrate despite whatever lip service they may give to give to God, Alan Greenspan or (laughably) social justice.
Listen to people talk. They will tell you in time what will "save" them. Money, war, capitalism, politics, this ism, that ism - pick your savior. I remember talking to this chick on a phone one time who worshiped at the altar of credit scores. I could have strangled her ass. Whatever you trust to get you through this world shows where you place your true faith.
I will finish with one more thing. Bill has also openly said - and I do believe this - that he believes in love. I wouldn't listen to him otherwise. And I believe that's one reason he fears the Bible so much. The Bible doesn't say God is religion or to believe in religion, it says God is love. So if you believe in love you therefore believe in God. Got ya, Bill!
Everyone (who hasn't been around the block) says love will never work but they damn sure do want it!
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Darla Carmichael
OS Weekend Fiction Club
rmgosselin
Writer to the Stars
emma peel 2
Mission
Salon.com
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There's a God, and he likes fucking with us, a lot!! How I know? The mother fucker told me so!! ~nods~
Those who insist on an Is have an enormous obstacle to overcome -- that this Great Is can be conceived of or comprehended by minds as puny as ours. Those who insist on an Is most vociferously and loudly offer proof that their minds aren't capable of any such thing. Is this Is large and in charge? If so, where's the evidence? The evidence at hand suggests otherwise.
Isn't? Where's that evidence? The evidence at hand is insufficient to prove Isn't as well. To be fair, no amount of evidence could convince those who contend there is an Is that that Is isn't.
Is an Is improbable? Well, that's another story, a story that lacks an ending, and therefore it is unpalatable to those who must have a happy ending to their fairy tales.
It's impossible to find a religion that works for broke-assed people who hate sitting up in church or on Yoga mats for 3 hours at a shot.
Mission, perfectly said!
Tom, I'd hate to get into the business of proving or disproving what is already known.
zuma, I'm right there with you. Bill Maher rants on religion the same way preachers rant on homosexuality.
CG, it's the combativeness I abhor regardless of where it's coming from.
Atheists who cite examples of bad actions being taken by religious folks (such as your examples of witch burning or pedophile priests) are not claiming that means religion does not exist, but only that religion does not make people moral. There are people who are moral and people who are not, whether they are religious or plumbers or atheists.
If there is a loving god, why would he make a world with so much misery and poverty and disease and war and earthquakes and tornados? Why would he cause the innocent to suffer needlessly? Is it not fully in his power to create us happy and perfect in a world where we are safe? The stories of religion stretch and bend incredibly in order to explain the actual world, even though that world is not consistent with the idea of a loving and merciful creator.
I would say that an opinion about religion or about God is a religious opinion. But that does not make a person religious. A person may also have an opinion about baseball without being a baseball player.
Religion requires faith, which is a belief without evidence. This is precisely what an atheist does not do: have faith in something with no evidence. The absence of belief is not religion. If you don't believe in Zeus or Thor does that make you religious? If you don't believe in the Gods of the Egyptians or the Aztecs, does that make you religious? By your own argument your lack of belief in these Gods is what makes you religious. What does it mean if you don't believe that a colony of little green unicorns reside in the center of the sun? What does it mean that you don't believe that gravity is reversed in the southern hemisphere and that things fall upward? Do these lacks of belief make you religious? Or do you simply not believe them because there is absolutely no good evidence for them? The atheist simply perceives that the evidence for the God of Abraham is no better than the evidence for the Sun Gods of the Aztecs, and no better than the evidence for the Egyptian gods Ra and Isis. I don't believe in the Abrahamic God or Allah just as you don't believe in the Greek gods or the gods of Pacific Islanders. If you think about any of the thousands of gods that humans have invented in Native American or African or Aboriginal cultures, your feelings toward them are just as my feelings are toward them, and I simply feel just that way about your God as well. This is not religious.
The atheist believes in reason. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and anything that can be asserted without evidence can equally be dismissed without evidence.
I hope your argument isn't going to rest on the idea of a popular vote, given that plenty of civilizations believed for millennia in multiple Gods. How did their beliefs get invalidated and yours not?
Jeff, an agnostic believes it is possible or not possible - so it's not a belief. That's like saying someone can believe the world is both flat and round. Don't be absurd. Point being, they have no dog in the fight - which is the point of the post.
What people say makes them moral is a religious belief. Do you believe being an atheist makes you moral?
I don't care if there is a loving god or not. However, if you want to claim reason - and no reasonable person would ever do that - then you have to admit it's the people on this planet who are responsible for the way the world is. So then ask why we would create a planet of misery.
You may not be a baseball player, but if you have an opinion, you're certainly a fan, i.e. religious.
Everyone has faith in something. And if you don't have faith in yourself then that's quite a self-revelatory statement.
I have faith in myself based on evidence, I have faith that the sun will rise again tomorrow based on evidence. These are using the word faith in the sense of confidence based on experience. Don't try to obscure truth by playing word games. This is what is known as equivocation, a form of intellectual dishonesty that your ideas are founded upon.
Your point that atheism is a religion is totally absurd, and you are only playing dishonest games of equivocation with the words belief and faith to make it.
I believe being a human being makes me moral. It's part of what evolution equipped us with as part of our need to bond in social groups. Of course people are responsible for their actions, but they are not responsible for mosquitos and malaria and parasites and bacteria that kills and viruses that kill. So you can't blame all that is bad on people.
People have instincts in their brain for good and evil. What we know as good was part of our social cooperation in small groups of hunter gatherers. What we know as evil were competitive behaviors that helped us deal with rivals and wars and competition for resources. These things survive in us and we adapt them to our cultural evolution of technology and knowledge.
I'm an atheist, and I'm not religious, regardless of what you say. Your point has validity only in your own mind, but not for the world of reality that exists outside of your imagination. Religion was nothing more than an early attempt to do what today science, civil law, social clubs, and literature do a much better job at.
You can imagine atheists are religious, but then you can also imagine that you have the ability to fly. You don't understand atheism any better than you know how to fly.
Are you kidding? Atheists don't use priest molesting children as evidence that god does or does not exist. They use it as an example of how religion is hypocritical. It claims to be about love and caring but then hides the abuse of children by people who were trusted like family members.
You need to actually talk to some atheists instead of making up stories based on what you imagine they are like. If you know some atheists who fit your description I assure you they are in the minority. You seem to have a bit of confusion about believing in god vs believing in organized religion. Atheism is not a religion because it is not based on a supernatural belief and there aren't any ritualistic practices that atheists follow.
You are partly correct with your god/plumber analogy. I would disagree in that if we suddenly discovered that the same number of children molested by priests had been molested by plumbers people would start learning how to use a plunger themselves. Look at the numbers of people leaving the Catholic Church.
Atheists do not claim to have 'proof' there is no god. Atheists (most) will tell you there is no evidence that god exists. I don't know if you don't understand the difference, got confused, or just have incorrect information again but unless you can grasp that concept you can not have an accurate dialog about atheists, all you will be doing is spreading disinformation.
I can see in the comments a couple of people have told you that you are misinformed but again you seem either unable or unwilling to understand. That is a bad habit to have because others will see the points reasonable people make regardless of your dismissing them. It seems rather rude and egotistical to be telling others what they are and what they do/do not believe. I wonder how you would feel if someone did the same to you. I would imagine it would upset you a bit , how ironic among other things...
Please try to learn about the things you post about, the world will be a better place if you do. Thank You
1) The thing about language is, while a free society gives you the legal right to define any word in any delusional way you like (e.g., car-rot - noun. a blue plasma fluxing moon mammal"), you do not have the right to force the rest of us to accept your delusions. When Bill Maher or any other non psychotic defines religion as belief in God, he's concurring with the first definition in the OED: re•li•gion - noun the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power
2) No self-respecting atheist, including Bill Maher or other, ever told you that you have to not believe in God. None of us cares what you believe or don't believe. Really. And your paranoid delusion that says otherwise, like the one above, reeks of narcissism. Get over yourself.
...hey Einstein (who did believe in God)...
There is ample evidence that you are wrong, as in this quote: "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it. (Albert Einstein, 1954)"
Religious people often try to twist his 2nd sentence into proof of Einstein's religiousness and belief in God, but the first sentence makes no room for that. Typical of the breed, Einstein was a very decent and moral atheist. Get over it. There are plenty of decent and moral religious people to sanctify. Leave Einstein alone.
No one gets outraged when a plumber molests a child saying, "I no longer believe in plumbers!"
Yes, and exactly none of the approximately 100 atheists I know believe in God's non-existence because of priests molesting children. Are the atheists you know all in grammar school?
It's just incredible the number of people who fall for that.
No, it is the opposite of incredible. The fact is that I've never met anyone over the age of 18 who believed that witch burning disproved or even diminished the likelihood that God exists, which makes most of your outburst, here, a straw-man argument. There are many excellent reasons to be an atheist: next time, argue against one of them.